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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 10:32 PM
Original message
"Many liberals and progressives cling to the childish notion that Obama is really one of them"

Weekend Edition
July 29 - 31, 2011

Getting Things Done ... for the Rich and Powerful
Whose Black President?
By PAUL STREET
Paul Street is the co-author with Anthony DiMaggio of the newly released Crashing the Tea Party (Paradigm Publishers, 2011)

Preparing to run for re-election as a “moderate” in 2012, Obama appears to share the G.O.P’s ’preposterous claims that the deficit, not unemployment, is the top economic issue facing the U.S. He says that “Government has to start living within its means, just like families do. We have to cut the spending we can’t afford so we can put the economy on sounder footing, and give our businesses the confidence they need to grow and create jobs.” As activist and writer Shamus Cooke notes, “This is the language of the right wing, now the language of both the Democrat and Republican parties. In reality, the U.S. government could easily access trillions of dollars in revenue; it simply chooses not to. Both political parties refuse to discuss how raising taxes on the wealthy and corporations could easily fix the current deficit issue on both the federal and state levels.” This is quite true, just as the ongoing elite-manufactured “crisis of Social Security” could be solved simply by lifting the regressive cap on payroll taxes and taxing investment income.

A Silly Narrative

Obama keeps “caving in” to the Republican Party, much to the all-too credulous dismay of many liberals and progressives who cling to the childish notion that the president is really one of them. One of the more ridiculous aspects of this summer’s debt-ceiling drama has been the claim of certain Democratic pundits and spin doctors (e.g. MSNBC’s Lawrence O’Donnell) that Obama never really meant to institute draconian Social Security, Medicare and social spending cuts – that the “grand bargain” he offered was really just a clever ploy to expose the Republicans’ real partisan and arch-regressive agenda. This is a preposterous claim, as was seen when Obama subsequently signed on to the bipartisan “Gang of Six” budget plan, which “offered huge tax breaks for some of the wealthiest people in the country, while lowering Social Security benefits for retirees and the disabled” (Dean Baker)

We are familiar by now with the standard liberal defense. The president, an all too persistent story line goes, is a progressive, left-leaning man of liberal instincts boxed in by cra-a-a-zy Tea Partiers who “took over the Republican Party” and left him no choice but to shift rightward to “get something done.”’ This narrative ought to be understood as embarrassing nonsense. “The Tea Party” is an expression of the long-term rightward drift of the ever more radical, pseudo-conservative Republican Party, for which “deficit reduction” is just a tool in its long-term war on those parts of government that do not serve the rich. Consistent with his longstanding identity as a corporate and imperial “player,” the deeply conservative Obama governed from the big business-friendly, Teapublican-accommodating center-right in his first year, when the Democrats held both houses of Congress, including a filibuster-proof Senate majority. He and his party stood down progressive organizations, energies, and voters (another promise kept to corporate and Wall Street sponsors) in 2009 and 2010, leaving the door open for the Republicans’ Tea Party-re-branding and triumph – a victory that helped Obama move yet further into his right-leaning, privilege-pleasing “comfort zone” (Glen Ford).

What Matters Above All

It is historic that a black family has resided since 2009 in the White House. But let’s be clear about whose black president Obama really is at the end of the day: theirs, not ours. As John Pilger noted two years ago: “The clever young man who recently made it to the White House is a very fine hypnotist, partly because it is indeed exciting to see an African American at the pinnacle of power in the land of slavery. However, this is the 21st century, and race together with gender and even class can be very seductive tools of propaganda. For what is so often overlooked and what matters, I believe, above all, is the class one serves . George W. Bush’s inner circle from the State Department to the Supreme Court was perhaps the most multiracial in presidential history. It was PC par excellence….It was also the most reactionary.”

Read the full article at:

http://www.counterpunch.org/street07292011.html

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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. unrec for disgusting dreck
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
20. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 04:02 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. Deleted message
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
29. Dreck?! What, pray, did the article get wrong?
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rury Donating Member (629 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #29
112. The article is DEAD WRONG...
About the "filibuster-proof" majority in the Senate.
The 60 Democrats were no monolith.
They were not unanimous in their support for the for the public option and refused to close the prison at Guantanamo Bay.
They screwed President Obama - and us - several times. Read on if you're not afraid of the truth:

http://www.politicususa.com/en/don’t-blame-obama-only-6-democratic-senators-voted-to-fund-closing-gitmo
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/dec/14/nelson-lieberman-balk-at-medicare-buy-in/
http://www.openleft.com/diary/17296/actual-senate-supermajority-requirements-72-democrats-54-republicans
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2011/04/407972.shtml

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #112
146. Sadly, the Democrats have been collaborating with GOP since the 1970's .. at least ...
Edited on Sun Jul-31-11 05:21 PM by defendandprotect
Wm. Grieder is clear on that in his 1992 book "Who will tell the people?"

Page 80 --

Greider tells us that in 1978 -- with the Democratic Party fully in power --

and well before Reagan -- Democratic majorities have supported this great shift

in tax burden every step of the way.


"During the Carter years, Democrats worked with GOP to break the tax code for the benefit

of the rich."


Greider also points out that most everyone is interested in taxes and has strong opinions

about the subject --

"Therefore in order to acomplish such distorted outcomes the governing elites and monied interests

are required to create a series of elaborate schemes around the subject of taxes -- a moving

tableau of convincing illusion that distracts the public from the real contest and gives

politicians a place to hide.

Behind the scenes is the reality of the collaboration between them.

But in public the two parties "struggle" contentiously over tax issues -- and

broad recognized goals, that seem desirable for everyone -- "economic growth and jobs."

Meanwhile elites work out among themselves, how these broad goals can be translated into

reducing their own tax burdens."

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Xtraneous Donating Member (68 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #146
180. Nader's been saying this all along...
and at least he's used his campaigns to talk about it. Better to be a kiss ass and diplomatic than right. The world has too many sheep.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #180
191. True --
unfortunately, loyalty to party kept many from understanding what he was saying

or opening their minds to it --

Too late now!!

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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #146
181. Such a broad brush.Could say the same about "republicans" when really it was only a few
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #112
179. Agreed.According to this article Obama has done nothing for the left.Not one thing mentioned
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #179
182. "Many liberals"???How many. Have youu even listened to tea party rhetoric?
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #182
183. Please tell me what person as president could have done as much.List accomplishments before cuts
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Blecht Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
50. The truth hurts
Doesn't it?
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rury Donating Member (629 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #50
105. I absolutely agree that the jobs crisis is more important than the deficit...
What I don't understand is why some people think that President Obama can get a jobs bill through the Tea Party-controlled House when they refuse to spend any money on anything except wars and tax cuts!!
He had to twist arms to get the original stimulus bill through because moderate and conservative Democrats balked about the cost.
:wtf: :wtf: :shrug:
Ya know what?
We ARE FUCKED, our goose is probably cooked and I would not mind at all if no deal is reached and we default.
Then the whole house of cards that is the United States of America would just collapse.
When enough people see the monster they created in the 2010 midterms by sweeping the Tea Party into power, maybe they'll start to vote intelligently...i.e.,, liberally, and we can rebuild the nation as it should be.
Given the current political situation, I fear that the Rethugs will take the White House and both houses of Congress in 2012.
I hope I don't live to see it!!


:rant:
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #105
189. the point is that Obama gets an F- for effort
Remember what he said in the campaign? I think it rhymed with "bless this fan" or maybe it was "press the plan". Anyway, it escapes me. Mess free pan?

But now you want to excuse him because "he can't get a jobs bill through the Republican House." Sorry, but I would like to see him at least try, put a little bit of effort into getting a jobs bill passed. Offer one to the public. Instead his big jobs plan is a bunch of Reaganomics - a regressive payroll tax cut. The same type of crap we could have expected from Bush. To give an $1800 tax break to people who make $90,000 a year and to give a $300 tax break to people who make $15,000 a year.

Hell, if he is so stuck on payroll tax cuts, then what about a holiday on the first $8,000 of income. That way, most working people would all get the same $416 (the unemployed, of course, would still get nothing, except a few jobs that might trickle down).

Obama seems to feel it is better to offer crap that might pass than to offer good things that don't pass. For me, I would rather see him try good things and fail, than to try bad things and 'succeed'.
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #50
184. Your truth?The media's truth? Have you seen the charts on job creation since Obama? That truth
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
61. since this "is dreck," a question for you: is Obama 1) a weak negotiator
or 2) a strong Reaganite?
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #61
77. do you 1) beat your wife/husband or 2) assault your neighbours daughters?
Edited on Sun Jul-31-11 11:48 AM by Whisp
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FedUp_Queer Donating Member (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #77
89. Ok. Fine.
How about this. Answer the question or offer an alternative "3)." The question was a "have you stopped beating your wife" question. Defend Obama, but do it with facts. I admit I was one of the dumb liberals still trying to believe he was liberal...until I saw the facts. As I said in a post somewhere else, I had an Ocham's razor moment. Did he just believe the stuff he was pushing (right out of the GW Bush playbook in some instances) or was he really a liberal whom the teabaggers boxed in? Then I realized he wasn't agreeing to these right-wing policies after an obstinate GOP just wouldn't "compromise," but he was coming to the table with these right-wing policies (no public option, increased defense spending proposed in every budget, etc.). Believe me, it took me a while to come to that belief. It's awful feeling like someone duped you on such a grand scale, but as Bush SHOULD have said: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
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guruoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #77
128. No, it's
"Have you stopped beating your wife?"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question
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ijiji Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 04:44 AM
Response to Reply #61
199. well said nt
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
62. Come on. Take the truth when it's given to you.
The old head in the sand trick won't really help.
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #62
92. the truth is the media is telling a lot of lies and you are believing them.
Edited on Sun Jul-31-11 12:41 PM by Whisp
for example: It has been well established for a long time now that Obama is not a Muslim.
Not all that long ago I saw a scroll on CNN asking:

Is Obama a Muslim?

This is well after, well after all that craziness. and when Blitzer said of course he is not much later in the program. But the message was recieved as intended - countless mouthbreathers that just saw the scroll and scurried off to misinform the other mouthbreathers in their lives; Didya hear? Obama IS a Muslim... see! It was on the news

Now a scroll that said:

Is Obama caving?

Far too many will take that as a fact and not a scummy trick knowing that the weak will pick that up and run with it.

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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #92
118. So only you have the truth, eh? But no actual argument.
Find where the post said that Obama was a Muslim. Can you do that? If not, then your post is a pot of rubbish. It's obvious that you have no way of arguing with any of the points that were actually in the OP, so you go out and grab something not at all germane to the post.

Grow some. You are denying a cave. Next week you will be finding ways to say that the cave didn't happen because of some trick of wording. Then you will begin finding ways to praise the cave a being somehow heroic in the face of all opposition. Then you will be defending the cave by saying that the terms that the republicans wanted were actually a good idea.

Bend with the wind, grasshopper.
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #118
125. I have seen so many groundhog days here
and the next week will likely have the likes of You silent, that's the way it has gone so far.

and my example of media manipulation has Everything to do with the issue. During the Bush years we all pretty well agreed that the media was a hired liar to protect the RW, but suddenly now if a story paints Obama as a caver, a weakling, a shuffling, a doofus, a meek ineffectual twit, then it's real News all of a sudden.

give me a fucking break.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #125
135. You can't have a break.
I can see why you would want one. But there is a reason that so many Democrats are being disillusioned. They don't buy into the apologist's arguments about muslims and birth certificates. Those are things the right did. Screw them. But the reason the huge numbers of Democrats are so upset is because of what Obama is doing or not doing. You can blame it on the media. You can say he is powerless. You can say that it is everyone else's fault. There is a reason that people remember and quote the sign on Truman's desk. Truman didn't say "Don't blame me. Don't pick on me. I didn't know it would be this bad". He sucked it up and did the job.

So you want to say that the legion of experienced and lifelong activist Democrats are all stupid, that you, in your incarnate wisdom, are the one who sees it right. Well. We're not the stupid ones.
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #135
136. where do you get your news?
Edited on Sun Jul-31-11 03:23 PM by Whisp
Obama is still very popular with democrats, he raises money like stink and has a high approval rating.

I know that dissapoints you, but thems the facts, ma'am.

the democrats across the country are not represented here on DU, you just think you are the nations representation on Obama.

but you're not
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Union Thug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #136
149. I guess you're right - I stopped referring to myself as a democrat a long time ago.
If Obama represents Democratic values, I want no part of him or the Democratic party.
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #149
150. amen, Brother
Edited on Sun Jul-31-11 05:30 PM by bread_and_roses
love the nick

edit: proper gender
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Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #149
151. Agreed
He may have a D behind his name, but he is not a Democrat by what I was raised to believe.
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #149
190. ---------> you might want to go thata way then, and not be on DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #136
156. So blind. So blind.
Notice the jump ons here. You and the ever faithful can just keep writing off the activist Democrats that don't like what the administration is doing as an insignificant number. Just wait for someone to replace the hundreds of hours that I did in the last election. You guys keep telling me to go away. You are pissing away an election.

I'm a 40 year party activist. I am in contact with those like me who have been working for Democrats for decades. There are no rah-rah people left in that group. We used the rah-rahs to get coffee and delver flyers during the campaign. They had no idea how to do the meet-ups, how to set up a caucus, how to sit in the living room of undecideds. They liked the parties and the rallies, especially if there were celebrities and cameras. You and yours have systematically written off and pissed off those who know better. That kind of alienation and hubris couldn't have been better for the republicans if it had been planned.

DU type people vote. Your "democrats across the country" don't show up all that much. You rely on polls because they make you feel good. Dude. I was polled last week. I told the jerk who called that I thought Obama was doing a wonderful job, that he had my support. Real Democrats don't toss cookies to the republicans who might be paying for the polling. But then, if you had ever done this before, if you were a part of the activist party workers, you would know this and know that those polls don't mean shit. But that you rely on them for a comfy feeling says a lot.
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blackspade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #136
197. And where do you come by this info?
That's right, the news that you were vilifying a few post back.
By the way, the polling for Obama is going south among liberals, but I guess that is inconvenient for your narrative.

The fact is most of the news outlets are supportive of Obama's continual move to the right.
It serves their corporate masters.
Let's face it, the corporate givaways that have been supported by this president make the rich in this country happy, which is why he will have a second term.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #125
160. You may have a point. Caving would imply that he is giving in. Maybe it's just what he wants to do.
Maybe he isnt caving but getting exactly what he wants. Like health care w/o a public option.

What ever YOU want to call it, Pres Obama has "caved", "given in", or "compromised" most of the Democratic platform away.

I could give you a list but it would be wasted effort.

I personally will never forgive him for choosing Rick Warren to give the prayer at his inauguration and calling mr. Warren "America's pastor". It was all down hill from there.
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RetroLounge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
98. Rec
Edited on Sun Jul-31-11 12:42 PM by RetroLounge
:rofl:

RL
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
107. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
111. You're outnumbered, which I find hopeful...nt
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #111
113. and what is your solution?
cut down the democratic president because he isn't doing things fast or good enough (in a climate that is extremely anti-democratic via media, lobbyists, a whole whack of others)? Saying there isn't enough progress in the amount of time he had, some of you have to look up the word Progress, it isn't instant, it's in steps, otherwise a different word would be used.

what is your solution other than insulting him more than you insult the repuglicans? Because that is the message I am getting, you have no solutions, you just have problems.
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #113
138. I'd like to hear Obama even SAY he's a Democrat. nt
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russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #138
152. ...doesn't have time... he's looking for his shoes
Edited on Sun Jul-31-11 05:58 PM by russspeakeasy
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #111
114. deleted dupe.
Edited on Sun Jul-31-11 01:28 PM by Whisp
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
133. Rec
because we can ill afford to ignore the indefensible Kabuki Theater playing out in our nation's capital.
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Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
148. Rec
sometimes the truth hurts.
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dbackjon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
154. The truth about our right-wing president is dreck?
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
159. Dreck is at the top of the greatest page
Why izzat?
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
168. Thank you, Whisp. Even though the un-crazy are massively outnumbered here
Which this stupid, revolting thread will undoubtedly highlight.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
177. Is this dreck too?
“There has never been such a void in moral truth as it now exists. And what the expectation has been for many of us was that Barack Obama would bring to the table a great sense of moral fortitude. I think were he to apply that in the decisions that he would have to make, he would find that his presidency might touch on a level of greatness that he has not yet considered. He has only listened to the voices that shout the loudest, and it’s all those reckless right-wing forces. It’s almost criminal.” ~Harry Belafonte

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Hokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
186. This kind of shit is why I have given my last dollar to DU
I have been a DU member since the beginning. I doubt I will give another dollar after the kind of shit I have seen here during the debt ceiling negotiations. You fuckers just cannot comprehend reality.
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MouseFitzgerald Donating Member (208 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #1
202. Brilliant rebuttal
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Otherwise known as Liberals, Progressives, and Democrats
"How DARE they not buy into the entire GOP agenda! Pony! Purity! You never really loved him!!!"

Stop putting ONE PERSONALITY over your Party, Progressive Principles, and your Country.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
123. Amen.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #2
15. what a joy to have you here
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
3. Unrec for the article, but we 'liberals' and progressives have 'white knight' syndrome
That why we fixate so completely on the Presidency as a Democratic party...

Meanwhile Republicans are eating our lunch in locals elections all over the country...
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paulkienitz Donating Member (313 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
73. the next election will be all about congress, not Barack
The one chance we have to get better policies through is to make the congress more progressive instead of corporatist. I figure that if congress actually votes pro-people policies instead of corporatist ones, Barack will see which way the wind is blowing and go along.
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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
4. I used to read Counterpunch years ago...
Edited on Sat Jul-30-11 10:44 PM by liberalmuse
and many other lefty blogs that I can't even stomach anymore. Back then, they helped get me through the Bush years. Both the left and the right have their extremist factions and while people may enjoy seeing the rift in the Republican Party right now, we've been having a similar rift for quite some time now.

Oh, and that was a condescending piece of drivel.
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. can you point to inaccuracies in the article?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #4
21. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 03:57 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. Was that really necessary?
It doesn't add to whatever argument you're trying to make.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #4
57. When somebody starts a sentence with ''Both the left and the right''...
...I know I have heard/read all I have to.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #57
64. Both the left and right hands have thumbs.
:think:
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saras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #64
68. Precisely - and that's about all they have in common (i.e. the right doesn't get "opposable" yet)
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FedUp_Queer Donating Member (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #57
90. BINGO.
There is no equivalency.
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RZM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #57
178. They both have internal dynamics
And a big issue is how elements within each should approach the two major parties. I don't see anything wrong or even ideological at all in that statement.
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ismnotwasm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
106. Yes
The left seems to me, to be increasingly conspiracy-theory prone and the right is as hateful as ever and STILL conspiracy theory addicts.
I know a couple of liberals who 'voting third party this year' I tell them I did that for years and all it got me was George W. Bush, 2 disgusting wars, an economy I barely recognize, a resurgence of overt racism as well as hetero-sexism, violent attempts to shove religion into politics and a congress that seems to need to manipulate the diverse forms media before it does anything else.

My friends do understand my point of view as I understand theirs. We can still talk without arguing-- a give and take of information.

So in defense, I read the damn bills congress is debating or voting on. One thing twitter is actually good for. I never just take any information as fact without checking on it, and I actually learned to do that here.





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MouseFitzgerald Donating Member (208 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #4
203. Excellent counter-response
You expertly refuted every point made by the author.
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
5. recommend.
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
6. My House Rep. said essentially the same thing when he asked Obama to start acting like a Dem.
And then when he called Obama on his constant caving on the House Floor. I've been voting for DeFazio since 95. Dude has never let me down. Obama was swept into office on a huge wave of promises he mostly failed to keep.

"You didn't read the fine print!" they shrilly call. "He never said that!" "There was a comma in that sentence! He was saying the opposite of what you thought!"

:rofl:

My own Senator just tweeted today/yesterday how Obama's DOJ is stonewalling on an investigation he's trying to conduct about potentially illegal surveillance on American citizens using cell phones/GPS.

I've know these representatives for years and voted them in again and a again. Yet now anyone who questions Obama's obviously right-leaning agenda, even when he puts precious Democratic planks up for grabs, goes under the bus?

Dude, the bus is driving off a cliff. I'm not so upset someone threw me under it as time goes on.

PB
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FedUp_Queer Donating Member (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
93. Read this to find out Obama's belief on the wiretapping issue.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
7. As wrongheaded as claiming the deficit is the biggest economic problem facing the economy is,..
there is no way that Obama can run on a platform of creating jobs because by compromising the size of the initial stimulus he doomed it to failure. In 2012 the job situation will not have improved enough for him to credibly claim that he has prioritized it. He's cornered.
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SharksBreath Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #7
36. If they would have got rid of the Bush tax cuts day one
it would have been like a mini stimulus for the last 3 years.
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
10. Unrec...
as per usual.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
11. K&R. On the nose. Obama has been pitching a fallacious story for weeks
and has never explained how spending cuts will help this economy just as he never explained how tax cuts create jobs.
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
12. Nailed it. If you disagree, i have something for you
Clue
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
13. Gosh, counterpunch doesn't like a Democratic
President? Huh.

K and Unrec.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. What Democratic president? A president that favors austerity in the middle of a jobs cricis
--is joining Republicans in crashing the economy. If you constantly spout Republican messages, you are functionally a Republican.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #14
79. A President who has to work with an insane majority in the house,
largely because some liberals didn't take the mid-terms seriously enough.

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FedUp_Queer Donating Member (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #79
96. There it is. The apologists act like the first two years of his presidency never happened.
Remember this:

The GOP took over at the beginning of 2011. Health care reform passed (notably without a public option) passed in 2010. The stimulus (too big on tax cuts) passed in 2009. The Bush tax cuts renewal...happened in 2010...during the lame duck session. The inadequate stimulus and health care reform (which DID do some good things) passed BEFORE the midterms. His constant caving is what depressed the Democratic vote in 2010.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #96
130. There it is. The third party voters act like the first two years of
Obama's Presidency did not amount to progress. No health care reform, no Lilly Ledbetter fair pay act, no repal of DOMA, no ending the combat missions in Iraq, no settlement in the black farmers lawsuit , no saving the auto industry, no Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act, no extending benefits to same-sex partners of federal employees, no cutting salaries for 65 bailout executives, no Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act, etc.

Constant caving? Let's see how that perfection works out for idiots when we have a President Bachmann. I'd rather be in a position to pass imperfect progressive legislation, than to regress into another Bush like era.
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kelly1mm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #130
157. And with all that progress the Democrats suffered histoic losses in 2010? Why? nt
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #157
163. Because the economy is still in the shitter, and Obama and the Dems couldn't convince people that--
--they were on their side. Also, the Dems refused to defend the very popular GOVERNMENT Medicare, and allowed Republicans to fake being Medicare defenders.
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kelly1mm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #163
166. So what will happen in 2012 when the economy is still in the shitter and this debt agreement
puts Democrats on record as allowing Medicare cuts?
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #166
194. What medicare cuts?
There are no cuts to beneficiaries and only cuts in the event that the military is also cut. You're also forgetting that Republicans "allowed" the same deal to pass.
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FedUp_Queer Donating Member (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #194
205. Are you kidding me?
You try cutting only to providers of health care and see what happens. All of a sudden, Grandma and Grandpa go to their doctor one day who says: sorry. The government cut reimbursement to me. I'm no longer taking medicare. Oh, you're right. That won't hurt. This is nothing a but a ruse to dupe those who still let this center-right "Democrat" say he's a progressive...CRAP.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #157
193. Motivated, yet uninformed racists.
That's why.

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FedUp_Queer Donating Member (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #130
201. Well, let me correct your obvious ignorance.
First of all, DOMA is still on the books and is still going to be on the books. Don't Ask, Don't Tell, while technically "repealed"...in another 60 days is a farce. Now the military is contemplating separate barracks and showers for LGBT service members. Your crap about "ending the combat mission in Iraq" is just that, crap. What the hell do you think the military does? Maybe it's that part of the military who don't carry guns. If there are military people there, they are engaging in Combat. If you'd like, let's take a look "combat operations" which are NOW IN YEMEN, LIBYA (oh, that's right, it's NATO...excrement...whom do you think NATO is), SOMALIA (drone bombing attacks in Mogadishu). Oh, let's not forget an escalation in Afghanistan and even after the "draw down" by the end of 2012..still more troops than when he took office. Saving the auto industry: typically of an Obama sycophant. Yes, he "saved" the industry while in the process he destroyed it by making unions make huge concessions regarding pensions and health care as well as busting the UAW with the two-tiered labor structure. The benefits to same-sex partners is nothing but window dressing. WE still miss out on the 1,000+ benefits that straights get by virtue of marriage. I guess we can thank "Mr. Fierce Advocate" for that. The "Wall Street Reform" is laughable. It's nothing but watered-down window dressing that left "too big to fail" in place. Reinstating Glass-Steagall would have been a START. Yes, Obama did a couple of good things...you know the saying about broken clocks. But not even trying for a public option, selling out to big pharma in a back room deal, cowtowing to Wall Street (Geithner, Summers, Rubin as advisers). How about hiring Immelt (Mr. Moving GE to China) as a chief adviser. Gitmo? Still open. Bagram? Getting bigger. Deporting more undocumented people than ever? Check. Prosecuting more whistle blowers? Check. Complete government immunity from lawsuits American citizens bring for warrantless wiretapping? Check. Ever increasing defense spending? Check. Indefinite detention, even for acquitted detainees at Gitmo? Check. My favorite latest: $900 billion in "cuts" to discretionary spending in 10 years...$550 billion in domestic spending with on $350 billion in military cuts. You're right!!!!!! What a GD progressive!!!!!!! Why, if we have Bachmann...we might be involved militarily in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Somalia and Yemen. Oh wait....WE ARE!!!! You want to spew your "Obama is a progressive" crap? Find a ignoramus who doesn't actually pay attention because I, for one, will not let you Administration Toadies get away with it.
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LooseWilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #201
207. And how! +several.
:fistbump:

You saved me much typing... and relieved me of the feeling that I was taking crazy pills for a nice little slice of time.
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #96
131. This bunny is convinced Dems would have swept the 2010 elections by wide margins had an even
modestly centrist/center-left agenda been pursued beginning 1-20-09. :patriot:
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #131
141. Indeed. Unemployment was still bad in 1934, but people voted for Democrats
--because they were convinced that FDR was on their side. His MESSAGE was diametrically opposed to that of the Republicans.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #79
140. He may have to work with them, but why in fucking hell does he have to adopt their MESSAGE?
BTW, liberals didn't stay home. It was the occasional voters who hoped for improvements in their lives who stayed home, correctly observing that their lives still sucked.
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FedUp_Queer Donating Member (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #140
206. One correction.
He didn't adopt the message. He adopted the substance.
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dbackjon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #79
162. No, liberals stayed home because they were tired of being ignored
Our homophobic, right-wing President ensured that.


But then again, easier to get his agenda done with a more friendly congress like he has now.
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #14
132. + a gazillion
And, if I hear one more DUer say that poor wee Obama has to work with an obstinate and obfuscating GOP, I'll dance naked on my front lawn (not a pretty sight, I assure you).
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. What Democratic President?? The one who put SS/Medicare on the table
is that the one? :argh:
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #17
76. Oh no! Not the
table!?

:eyes:

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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #13
70. What Democratic President? The one trying to crush whistleblowers?

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/07/30-3

"Published on Saturday, July 30, 2011 by Salon
Obama's Whistleblower War Suffers Two Defeats
by Glenn Greenwald "

oh - and a K & R for OP
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #70
81. We can continue to count on common dreams to paint the inaccurate
portrait asserting that Gore = Bush and Democrats = Republicans. Thanks for pointing that out.
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #81
86.  Attack the messenger much?
We can count on many writers there to know the difference between policy and Party

Sure there's a difference - one has D, one has an R.

First stands for scraps and bones, second for scraped plates.

Both leave us scrabbling through the midden. Some difference.

Attacking the messenger does not refute the message.

Policy, not Party
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #86
87. Is John Boehner a "messenger" too?
:hi:
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #87
142. Yes. And Obama agrees with his message instead of putting out a counter-message
The deficit is NOT an emergency. Jobs are an emergency, but Obama refuses to say so.
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Plucketeer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #70
115. Yeah,
the Democratic president that can't seem to find a pair of comfortable shoes???
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Plucketeer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #70
117. Yeah - what Dem Prez?
the Democratic president that can't seem to find a pair of comfortable shoes???
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sfwriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 02:11 AM
Response to Original message
16. I never did...
I was going to vote Green until Sarah entered the race, and then it became ANYTHING but THAT.

But I never thought he was a Progressive. Too many players and Chicago economic school chums around him to be that.

Anyone else not really surprised? I expect the GOP ticket will again be shockingly caustic, assuring him of my vote again.
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swilton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #16
43. I actually think that there are some in his administration
promoting Sarah and Michelle - the worse they look, the better he looks. I wouldn't put anything past them.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #16
99. "What’s the dollar value of a starry-eyed idealist?" from the article...
Edited on Sun Jul-31-11 12:42 PM by KoKo
from article:

"It’s not for nothing that candidate Obama set new Wall Street and corporate fundraising records, consistent with the following comment of a leading Washington lobbyist to Ken Silverstein in 2006: “big donors would not be helping out Obama if they didn’t see him as a ‘player…What’s the dollar value of a starry-eyed idealist?’”

In the spring of 2007, The New Yorker’s Larissa MacFarquhar painted the following picture of the future president after a series of in-depth interviews with candidate Obama: “In his view of history, in his respect for tradition, in his skepticism that the world can be changed any way but very, very slowly, Obama is deeply conservative….It’s not just that he thinks revolutions are unlikely: he values continuity and stability for their own sake, sometimes even more than he values change for the good.”"
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 02:46 AM
Response to Original message
18. that is absolutely true, but many other progressives cling to the notion that there is some other
"white night' progressive out there who will win the White House and save us all. Remember how many people claimed with a straight face that Howard Dean or Wesley Clark were progressives when any simple review of their records and actual positions made it clear that was not the case at all? Sure they were better than George W. Bush or Joe Lieberman for that matter, but progressives? Give me a break and get a grip on reality!

I'm defining progressive very broadly with the most non-purist definition that I can imagine. A progressive is someone who on domestic policy seeks to expand social democracy and economic democracy and on foreign policy seeks to move America away from its unsustainable global military empire. When it comes to domestic policy the last progressive President was of course Lyndon Banes Johnson - unfortunately on foreign policy his record was not progressive as we all know.

The last major party nominated candidate for President of the United States who sought to expand social democracy and economic democracy and also sought to move America away from an unsustainable military empire was of course George McGovern in 1972. Since then no progressive has come within striking distance of winning the Democratic Party nomination. Since then any progressive candidate - and I can only think of two that even came close to mounting a credible campaign - Morris Udall in 1976 and Jesse Jackson in 1988 - have been completely marginalized by the political structure and the mainstream media.

Now I absolutely agree that the Republican Party is so dominated by such lunatics that even these phoney baloney Democratic Party candidates are far, far less dangerous than taking the risk of allowing those right wing lunatics any chance of gaining power. Taking that risk would simply be morally irresponsible. But imagining that there are progressives within the upper ranks of the Democratic Party who might actually become viable candidates for President and then win and then actually expand social democracy and economic democracy and actually seek to curtail the military industrial complex - well to imagine this is even remotely probable is simply just as childish a notion as to imagine that Obama or Clinton or Dean or Clark or Kerry is really one of them.

If there is one thing we can count on is that any candidate who will be taken seriously and treated as a serious and viable candidate by the political establishment and by the mainstream media is someone who has properly ideologically genuflected to the military industrial complex and someone whose soul belongs to Wall Street.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 03:04 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. +1
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 05:28 AM
Response to Reply #18
27. Excellent post. It should be an OP. n/t
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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #27
34. I agree. n/t
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NorthCarolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #18
38. +1
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SharksBreath Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #18
39. Obama ran on progressive ideas. Polls show most of America
Edited on Sun Jul-31-11 08:24 AM by SharksBreath
favor progressive ideas.

From Pew.



http://people-press.org/2011/06/07/more-blame-wars-than-domestic-spending-or-tax-cuts-for-nations-debt/

To think we can't win on our platform is just wrong. We already won.

Obama ran on it. He won. He was seen as the progressive when compared to Hillary.

He just didn't use the platform once he got elected.

Matter of fact if you look at that poll it shows Americans want progressive polices.

They wanted a public option. They want higher taxes on the rich. They want corporations to pay their fair share.
They want the wars over.

The American people didn't stop Obama from doing those things.

Polls show they want it.

We just need someone who will stop using our platform to get elected and actually fight for the platform once elected.

It's not like the teabag platform because their policies aren't favored at all.

Yet the GOP get in and they try to force their policies down America's throat even though it's not favored.

Where are the people who will fight for our platform like they fight for theirs.

The platform isn't the problem.
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #39
46. oh I agree that most Americans actually agree with most progressive positions on most issues
Edited on Sun Jul-31-11 09:27 AM by Douglas Carpenter
But that doesn't change the simple reality that any actual progressive who is actually viewed as likely to actually carry out a progressive agenda if actually elected will be completely marginalized by the political establishment and their sycophants in the media before their campaign even gets off the ground. Most polls showed that issue by issue more Americans agreed with McGovern than with Nixon and were closer to Mondale's views than Reagan's. But that didn't change the results of the elections. We have a political culture where actual positions on issue are barely discussed - where manufactured image takes precedence over actual reality.

The religious right, the social conservative and more recently the tea party moment have in a twisted sort of way been very successful in making their campaigns "issue oriented" in the sense of focusing campaigns on highly emotive social issues and have been able to bamboozle a lot of natural Democrats into voting against their interest by appealing to their fears. Much of the Democratic Party establishment has adopted a strategy of embracing traditional conservative-Republican economics albeit slightly moderated and appealing to those who might agree with old-style Republican thinking but are fearful of the extreme language of the Religious Right and the social conservatives. While progressive economic positions and progressive foreign policy thinking have by large been pushed to the margins of popular discussion. As we saw with the healthcare debate, support for publicly financed single-payer universal healthcare was not even given the time of day in the market place of ideas - regardless how popular the idea might actually be.
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swilton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #18
44. I agree with your comments and analysis
no argument about your assessments of Dean and Clark - and no need to offer them as candidates to primary Obama. Wall Street is very manipulative about marketing candidates and this article certainly brings out that Obama has been created and marketed.

I do hope Obama is primaried - the internet to some extent enables mobilizing and mass communications for better or for worse...

I also agree with your points about the MIC and Wall Street - ergo the only true solution to the problem is a complete outsider that challenges the system....none of the 'market can solve' this problem crap....

The fear of deceit/manipulation existing with the illusion in the WH is as scarey as our inability to do something about it.


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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #18
49. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #49
54. well the last time a third party effort was successful at building and sustaining a permanent new
party was on the eve of the Civil War - more than one hundred and fifty years ago. The same forces that marginalize progressive Democrats are the same forces that would marginalize a credible third party effort. The way our political system is configured unfortunately puts us into the position of being potential unwitting king makers for an even larger, more ideological and more intransigent right-wing lunatic majority.
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cantbeserious Donating Member (270 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #54
56. Ah So Historically - This Is Where The Fourth Turning Is Our Friend
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #18
53. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
saras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #18
69. +1000000 Progressive means reducing corporate power. There's no way around it.
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saras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #18
72. Then the obvious implication is that we must no longer accept those candidates
You've just given the best argument I've ever heard for abandoning the Democratic party once and for all, and dedicating my political future to defeating the two-party system. Supporting the MIC in its current form does more harm to me, my community, my values, and my planet than anything else a President, even one with massive public support and the support of the courts and both houses of Congress, could possibly accomplish, even if they wanted to.

Is that what you intended? If my choice is truly limited to a competent corporatist thief or an incompetent corporatist thief, it is in my better interest to choose the incompetent one, because they will get less damage actually accomplished while in office. Is this what the two-party system is designed to lead to?
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #72
164. Actually I'm not saying that at all. Because in spite of everything - the ONLY alternative is so
crazy and so extreme and so dangerous that allowing them to come to power either passively or by voting in a manner that throws the election to them would simply be immoral. Fox News does reflect the worldview of the majority of today's Republican Party. As horrific as the compromises of the Democratic Party have been - the ONLY other political block that has any possibility whatsoever of gaining power are people who seriously consider the Democratic Party radical, left-wing extremist.

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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #18
83. This post nails it...!
"If there is one thing we can count on is that any candidate who will be taken seriously and treated as a serious and viable candidate by the political establishment and by the mainstream media is someone who has properly ideologically genuflected to the military industrial complex and someone whose soul belongs to Wall Street."

One of the reasons Kucinich never had a chance.....:(
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #18
95. You've made me aware of how I felt when McGovern lost.
I just realized that that was a pivotal moment in my life. I knew that America was heading downhill that night. The man who I voted for, who made so much sense, could lose.

And that is how long I've known. Not the night in Ohio in 2004 when suddenly the votes took a UFO like divergence from reality. But the same sort of feeling of incredulity.

I knew Obama wasn't full of the fire it takes to get people on their feet. That's why I voted for Kucinich. But then when Obama was the only one who could win, I ultimately put my vote down for him.

We're in deep trouble in this country. Masses of dulled down people who never learned enough to know what's good for their country and themselves, combined with the positive feedback that a right wing media brings.

We have a long road ahead of us. It may never turn around.
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #95
174. Remember how quickly the Prairie Populist became the candidate of Amnesty, Acid and Abortion?
Edited on Sun Jul-31-11 08:45 PM by Douglas Carpenter


When a small town College history professor, a Methodist Minister and a World War II War hero can be turned into the very symbol of un-American counterculture - it is clear that there is not much that cannot be redefined and not much that they won't stoop to when someone seriously challenges the power structure. I'm afraid it is not coincidence that no progressive has come within striking distance of winning the Democratic Party nomination for President since then.

What is even more disturbing, is that even Richard Nixon would be a radical left-wing extremist by current Republican Party standards and at least on economic issues, the Democratic Party of today is way, way to the right of the Republican Party of Richard Nixon.
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Politicub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #18
97. +1 and couldn't agree more
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FedUp_Queer Donating Member (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #18
100. Your post has nearly made me weep. If there is someone to rebut this, please do.
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #100
161. It makes me weep too. I certainly wish I could rebut it myself.
Edited on Sun Jul-31-11 07:12 PM by Douglas Carpenter
"No savior from on high delivers, No faith have we in prince or peer. From our own right hands the chains must shiver. Chains of hatred, darkness, greed and fear." - from the Internationale


The right-wing extremist were able to take control of the Republican Party and then gain control of the range of political discussion in the United States and to a large extent most of the rest of the world - by changing the political culture, redefining the meaning of words and focusing working class peoples attention on emotionally charged social issues and creating a kind of reactionary working class populism as exemplified by Fox News and talk radio. The contributions of Ronald Reagan was not so much legislative as that he and his movement made selfishness respectable. In the popular political culture they created - injustice ceased to be the poor child going without proper health care and educational opportunities while the barons of Wall Street barons lived is lavish wealth. Injustice became instead the welfare queen and undocumented immigrant abusing the system. Simultaneously they quite successfully appealed to the intrinsic social conservatism and religiosity of the working class and painted progressives and even ordinary Democrats as allies of immorality. Is it possible to refocus the political culture of the country toward a progressive directions? Is it possible to again define morality and justice in terms of economic equity with America at peace with the world and economically just at home? I would hope so. But it will take a lot more effort and a lot more time than winning elections and primary campaigns. I cannot imagine any other way of halting this endless advance toward the abyss.
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ej510 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 02:46 AM
Response to Original message
19. Not this Progressive.
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blkmusclmachine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 03:18 AM
Response to Original message
23. K&R
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democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 04:41 AM
Response to Original message
26. K & R K & R K & R K & R K & R K & R K & R K & R K & R K & R
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quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 05:55 AM
Response to Original message
28. 56 days
does not = 1 year with a "filibuster proof majority", unrec for absurd negative bias and myth promotion.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
30. Recommend
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:18 AM
Response to Original message
31. If the rumors of the debt ceiling are true..
... (and I'm betting they are pretty close), once again Obama shows his true colors by accepting a deal that imposes NO NEW REVENUE INCREASES, no taxes on the rich or corporations, no lifting of RIDICULOUS subsidies to oil companies and others THAT DON'T NEED THEM and so forth.

Obama isn't even a decent moderate much less a progressive.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #31
37. How much more EVIDENCE do we need.
He appointed Immelt for God's sake! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_R._Immelt
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Babel_17 Donating Member (948 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
32. Recommended
Words matter and true Democrats don't casually put Social Security on the chopping block so as to look reasonable to reactionaries.
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Beavker Donating Member (784 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #32
88. Good debate, but...
Well if you spend so much time appeasing your opposition you forget to take care of your base. And though some of us are going to back the democrat no matter what, a lot of his votes came from folks that don't follow the details like us, they voted for the opposite of GWB. Some feel where not getting that. I voted for ending the wars, not extending them and expanding them. I voted for ending the Bush tax cuts, not expanding them. I votes for reigning in Wallstreet, not using the economy to excuse allowing them to get off the hook and get our SS and Medicare money. Public option, etc...

I guess some of us haven't got that.

Obama needs to work on pleasing his base first. Then work your way to the right, grabbing the independents along the wait. Then the GOP can hope they get scraps like we did the last decade. Tea baggers end up with nothing, as they should after that decade of right wing decadence.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
33. K&R!
Exactly correct.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
35. "Many liberals and progressives cling to the childish notion "
So anyone can insult liberals and progressives as long as it's not Gibbs?

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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #35
119. Typical. Note the modifier and try again.
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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
40. Unrec for a condenscending and paternalistic hit piece. n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
41. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
swilton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
42. How True
Obama with the help of his Fifth Column - James Carville / DLC (or whatever the nom de jour is)- is doing more to wreck the Democratic Party and the country than any tea baggers dreamed of....

He is all about the cult of personality a supreme con job - promotional advertising at its finest.
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
45. Recommended
as usual.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
47. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
dogmoma56 Donating Member (329 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
48. this is some background info.. i'm reposting it here..it explains the GOP Cult >Link>>
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
51. Another hit and run....
Copy/paste/dump. Does the OP ever have any ORIGINAL thought to share?

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ej510 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #51
55. Actually the OP posts all of the time and not just original posts.
He or she responds often.
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #55
59. No, actually...
He/she doesn't, hence the comment. Throwing out strawman admonitions hardly qualifies as original thought in defense of one's copy/paste "work."



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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #59
66. Yes, actually...
He does...

Replied in this thread...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=1517187

This one too...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=1515054

And this one...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=1514976

And this one...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=1513522

And this one...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=1495107

And this one...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=1489778

And this one...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=1474464

And this one...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=1468999

And this one...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=1469255

And this one...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=1474178

And this one...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=1469114

And this one...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=1469539

And this one...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=1461067

And this one...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=1436725

And this one...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=1444752

That's just in the last 3 weeks. Shall I go back further, or do you need more proof that you're demonstrably wrong?
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #66
124. ...and every one of them fall into the category of "strawman admonitions"
Thus, proving my point.

Keep going? Go for it. Seems you have both the time and the inclination to defend this OP, as he/she once again appears incapable of defending himself/herself. Exactly my point..

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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #124
144. Of course they do lol.
Every single one is a strawman, naturally lol. Reminds me of my aunt, a Tea Bagger. Sent her a ton of info on global warming, which she of course called bunk. Some people don't just drink Kool Aid, they bathe in it. :hi:
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #144
170. A string of one line talking points hardly qualify as "info."
....your teabagger aunt and the OP probably have more in common than you think.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #170
173. Nor do they make strawmen.
And if you believe the OP is a Teabagger why don't you alert? I wouldn't know much about the OP, as he put me on ignore the week he signed up, but you seem pretty sure of this, so let the mods and Admins know that a Teabagger is running amok on DU.

Bet you don't.
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #173
195. You would lose that bet FWIW. nt
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #195
196. Well then, maybe he'll be banned by tomorrow!
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Dragonfli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #59
82. Um I think someone may be on ignore, hard to respond to what isn't worth seeing /nt
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #82
127. What a cop out. nt
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #51
102. The clown with the Wikileaks sig line
I recognize him.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
52. Highly recommended. nt
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
58. progressives won't get shit as long as they ignore talk radio
it's their best weapon and it gets a free speech free ride.

as soon as the left pulls their ipods out of theirears and get protesting those 1000 coordinated radio stations that have been attacking everything liberal for 20 years and taking free potshots at obama, working for multinational corporations, the teanbaggers and GOP wont have shit.
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Chimichurri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
60. One only need to look at his record as President of the Harvard Law Review and the
votes he showed up for as a junior senator.

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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
63. Why can't we take a hint?
He keeps spending all his time planning with the pubs. He tells us he doesn't like us. He tells us to shut up.

Why don't we just admit our bad choice and move on.
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sulphurdunn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
65. To my mind,
the worst Obama cut of all was his complete betrayal of public education. His attitude toward all social policy seems to be "public be damned". And that isn't something anyone, friend or foe, would have divined from his presidential campaign rhetoric.
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orbitalman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
67. K & R for the thread
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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
71. Well, guess I don't count as one of the "many"...
Obama's no Liberal. he's no Progressive. Fuck, he's not even a Centrist (now, *THAT* was a surprise for me).

But you wanna know something else he's not, and this is very important...

He's not an ate-up barking-mad Christian Reconstructionist/Dominionist like the 2 front-runners opposing him are.
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
74. k&R
Fuckin' A man!
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
75. Isn't it a more childish notion
that some one person out there is to be savior and just do everything to take care of everyone else?

and that one who makes a compromise must actually agree with the person he compromises with - and that could go both ways. That compromise is never necessary and reality is optional?

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Shining Jack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #75
109. Yes.
Edited on Sun Jul-31-11 01:22 PM by Shining Jack
Idolizing a politician is childish indeed. And in some cases it's borderline pathological.
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paulkienitz Donating Member (313 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
78. the simple reason why "living within its means" analogy is wrong
Barack likes to use the timeworn analogy of comparing the budget deficit to a family overspending with credit cards. The reason this is wrong is that the economic choices faced by families are mostly in the area of spending, while they have almost no choice about income. The government, on the other hand, has needs and obligations that give it relatively little choice about spending (except for wars), but has lots of choice when it comes to revenue. It's not "reckless spending" that creates the deficit -- our spending, overall, has been quite sober and responsible, with slow growth, and a lesser portion of GNP than other western democracies. It is the tax cutting that has been reckless. It's there that we've seen acts that were impulsive, careless, and irresponsible, driven by personalities and whims, and backed by propaganda and corruption. We don't need "restraint" on spending, we need it on tax cutting.
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RagAss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
80. Amen !
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Citizen Worker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
84. A very good critique of our hard right president.
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davidthegnome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
85. I don't understand him
I still can't figure out whether he's honestly more in line with republican ideals and thinking, or whether he's trying to (honestly) play some sort of 12 dimensional chess. Then again, perhaps he's simply pragmatic. I don't think he was eager to continue the tax cuts for the wealthy - I think he was afraid of what would happen if he forced the issue, possible loss of unemployment benefits for many Americans, right around Christmas.

Regarding the taxes on the wealthy - the corporate elite, etc., I think a common mistake we make on the left is to think that we actually can control them. That we could "easily" implement a fair (or at least, more fair) tax system. The majority of our politicians are greatly influenced by corporate money and often by the money of wealthy individuals as well. Yes, our votes elect them... but the cash gets them the advertising they need to be heard of in the first place. To... get their message out, so to say.

We can rage against the way things are, shouting and shaking our fists.... but it will accomplish very little unless we all do so at once, in the public eye. In my opinion (humble or not) we need to do what many of us did in the 60s. Get together, whether it's around campfires, at our homes, or in the streets of DC itself. An overwhelming public majority CAN make the changes we want - the changes most of us know that we need, we cannot rely on the President, the Senate... and certainly not our congress, to do so.

Our time is short, climate change is building towards a climax that could very well bring on the end of the world as we know it. We are on the brink of economic ruin and enacting draconian social measures, grave injustices still. The freedom that once many of us took for granted has been (and is being) taken away from us inch by inch, so slowly that often we do not see it until it's too late... always watch what the other hand is doing.

I think Obama is a decent man in a position of immense frustration, surrounded by flatterers, fools and puppet masters who are far more interested in the next election than in how well they serve their Country and it's people (note: I do not speak of all politicians, but of the vast majority here). What are we going to do about it? We can make (as I am doing now) endless posts here, on facebook and elsewhere expressing our feelings and our anger or disappointment. Perhaps many people will read them and nod their heads, sighing at the apparent hopelessness of it all. Some will clench their fists, some will scoff at the notion that things could truly be in such a place. Surely in the great US of A we can do, can fix - can change anything.

Well, we can. It's simply that it's US who have to do it. Not Washington, not the President nor our elected officials. Too many of them are ruled by money - read the polls regarding public opinion, consider how much attention the majority of politicians pay to them. Consider how many truly believe it is their place to serve the majority rather than the elite, or, as in many cases, their campaign contributors.

A revolution does not have to be bloody. It can be fun instead. Let's get our guitars, our drums, let's bring our best singing voices and our beer (or wine, if you prefer) and get together with them. Most importantly, let's bring our ideas. If anyone in the Northern Maine area is interested in a rally, in sharing ideas and in truly solving the problems, send me a PM. I'll host, I'll sing, I'll dance, I'll work my butt off.

Will anyone else do the same? Time to get away from our computers for a little while and meet face to face.

Just my opinion, of course. I'm not narcissistic enough to believe I can change things by myself, but if others will help out, I think there is nothing we cannot accomplish with time and effort.
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NoodleyAppendage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
91. The TRUTH apparently hurts given some of the comments here.
No one likes to have his/her mistakes pointed out in public. Obama was our biggest mistake in 2008. I'm ashamed to say that I was duped into fighting for him against Hillary. I suspect Hillary is of similar DLC cloth, but at least she would fight harder and would negotiate from a position of power, not start negotiations 80% in enemy territory.

J
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Politicub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
94. Depends on the issue - he's stronger on many progressive issues than any president before
Edited on Sun Jul-31-11 12:33 PM by Politicub
In re: to LGBT civil rights, President Obama has done far more for our community than any president prior to him. The end of DADT and him speaking out against DOMA can not be underestimated.

The affordable health care act is something I'm glad he pushed, too. Do I prefer single payer? Of course. But come 2014 it will be a game changer for the better.

And his admin's record on the environment is strong.

And hundreds of other things that have happened under President Obama have changed this country for the better.

I am fully behind him for 2012.

And before the accusations come about my post, I don't wear rose colored glasses. Like many of his supporters, I do sometimes throw up my hands in frustration at some of his admin's positions. But at the end of the day, and on balance, I am happy with my president. I feel safer with President Obama in charge. It's naive to sacrifice the good for the perfect.
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
101. Unrecced this divisive piece of garbage. n/t
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
103. Sucks from the first sentence on
"...share the G.O.P’s ’preposterous claims that the deficit, not unemployment, is the top economic issue ..."

whine whine whine
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hulka38 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
104. The ultimate insult will be when Obama begins his suck up to progressives campaign
while his minions attempt to scare, shame and blame real progressives into voting for him again.
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steve2470 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
108. The author shot himself in the foot with the word "childish"
Otherwise, he makes a lot of sense.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #108
147. In the author's defense, the word "retard" has already been
Taken. By none other than Obama's own right hand man, Rahm Emanuel.

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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
110. I know Obama is not a strong progressive...
but when compared to other previous presidents, he is fairly progressive. All the bills that he has signed into law are quite progressive. He may not come off as being highly progressive, but underneath I think he is.
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jannyk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
116. k&r
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
120. No they do not have any illusions about Obama.
True liberals know the story. This leftie liberal never thought
Obama was anything but a corporate rightie. I didn't vote for
him in the primary, but I held my nose and voted for him in
the general election, as the least of two evils.
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slay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
121. K&R for truth
wake up progressives - Obama is not, has not, and never will be on our side.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
122. He was never one
of us - he just said pretty words to get elected. I wrote in Clinton's name and I am happy with that.
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #122
126. And yet you think Hillary is a progressive?
:rofl:

She and Obama are virtually identical.
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SoapBox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
129. K & R n/t
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
134. Well, "childish" is a polite way to put it - imo those who don't get it now are hopeless fools.
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
137. K & R
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
139. Obama helped the GOP bury the economy, unemployment, stimulus as urgent issues -- !!!
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bluerum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
143. I don't. But I do see him as an alternative to a rw president.
This country will never elect a liberal. It is too damn conservative.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
145. The problem with these, or the flip side - the 'Obama is our SAVIOR' articles
...is that they do not deliver a complex explanation to what's going on

The GOP has fucked us. Yeah, we played hard this time. Obama did, and it backfired. You can't win with bullshit from these fuckers (the GOP) and you can't win with logic.

We'll probably default, or maybe not.

The GOP will pretend nothing is happening, but we'll all be fucked.

AND if we're lucky, that will be it.

BUT, a power-driven meglomaniac might take over.

For those looking for the conspiracy - there is none.

Obama knows this is the big 'thing'.

That these fuckers are ready to drive us off a cliff.

There's not much you can do when you've got that level of sabotage.

Imagine if your right and left hands, and right foot were on the side of keeping things from getting worse.

But let's just say your left foot was hell bent on making the whole 'shithouse go up in flames!'

All it has to do is hit the brake REALLY fucking hard, and everyone dies.

And that's what they are doing.

Obama is a logical man - it would never hit him that some people are willing to make the whole 'shithouse go up in flames.'

He is figuring that out now, but it's too late.

How can a rational man fight with an irrational foe?
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pam4water Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
153. Really? I don't know any who still think he's a liberal.
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humbled_opinion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
155. Article is spot on...
We created the "OBAMA" that we wanted in our heads, that OBAMA has never materialized instead we see the same puppet masters at work....

The solution is DK...

I watched an interview with DK today and he sums it up best: I am paraphrashing:

"...3 Trillion wasted in Iraq, Another Trillion wasted to big Pharama in Medicare Part D and Billions wasted because of the trade deficit..." What can be done ".... we need to end the wars and we need to rebuild our manufacturing base, we need a "new" New Deal, green energy works program to create jobs having a full employment economy we wouldn't have any of these debt problems going on....-
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Veracious Donating Member (196 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
158. Blah Blah..more weekend warrior mitigation and disempowerment
Edited on Sun Jul-31-11 06:15 PM by Veracious
Want to win or keep crying about how bad someone is? In reality President Obama IS much further to the left than McCain or any of the GOP.
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Creideiki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
165. Isn't this what we keep getting told by the Faithful?
The Elect keep telling us progressives that we shouldn't expect anything else because he really ran as a conservative. So why should this article raise the ire of anyone?
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
167. Easily the most offensive bullshit I've read all fucking week
It is historic that a black family has resided since 2009 in the White House. But let’s be clear about whose black president Obama really is at the end of the day: theirs, not ours.

I am so sick of deranged white "liberals" going this route. Sick to fucking DEATH of it.
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Creideiki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #167
185. I can think of more offensive bullshit
Sadly, I can't post about it here.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
169. K&R n/t
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Kindigger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
171. K & R
I think I'm going to be sick...again.
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
172. Feingold / Grayson in '12 !!!!! nt
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #172
187. Change I could believe in! :)
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LaydeeBug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
175. I wish I could rec this a million times. kick. nt
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
176. His sell-out...er, compromise..tonight should explode that delusion.
But, it won't for the true-believers.
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blackspade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
188. This article is bang on.
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Roci Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
192. "Let me be clear"...
I am both Liberal and Progressive. I do not "cling" to anything except what I believe to be my Principles as I have come to understand them thru consistent application over a long life. Nor do I "cling" to anything or anyone in the partisan political arena. I gave up my Democratic Party membership via re-registration some months ago. There once was a lousy President, the one elected in 1980, who said: "I didn't leave the Democratic Party, they left me." It is Ironic that after a lifetime of opposition to his greasy brand of political chicanery, I should find a kernel of agreement with him now.

The "Party of NO", whom I am still sworn to oppose with every spark of life left in me, is a Party of Oligarchy, whose sole ambition is to destroy everything done by FDR and LBJ and to return this Nation to the "Gilded age" when Robber Barons ran Presidents, and the best the poor could hope for was a quick death from the inevitable march of starvation and hopelessness.

The present day "Democrats" are Democrats in Name and Machinery only. They have abandoned the principles of their foundation, and have made of themselves a hollow shell filled with the most deeply abhorrent cowardice and outright craven behavior which I have ever witnessed, even from the worst of the political hacks I have ever encountered in my lifetime. This includes their "leadership" and the current occupant of the White House.

If I must associate myself with a "Party" of any sort, like, or kind, than let me be as plain and as forthright as words will permit.

I am a Bull Moose.

To the "two parties" now in "Government", I say this plain and loud.

If you wish my support in anything you wish to accomplish, it is not I who must move "Right" or "Left", it is the "two parties" which must move toward me, and toward the greater number of people in this Nation who have been left without a voice in their own fate, and the fate of the Nation they helped to build.
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ijiji Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 04:43 AM
Response to Original message
198. k&r
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 04:48 AM
Response to Original message
200. brutally accurate
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
204. K+R (well, can't recommend now but still)
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