Robert Reich puts cuts to Medicare and Social Security on the table.

[JoePhilly]

Its right here in his recent article ...

"A president can be forgiven for compromising, if his supporters understand why he is doing so. That the health-care law doesn't include a public option, that financial reform doesn't limit the size of the biggest Wall Street banks, even that cuts may have to be made to Medicare or Social Security -- all could be accepted in light of the practical necessities of politics, if only we understood where the president is leading us."

And there you have it ... Reich puts cuts to Medicare and Social Security on the table. Obama just has to do a better job explaining why its necessary.

Shouldn't Bob be standing firm, and demanding that such cuts can not be accepted under any circumstances?

Maybe Bob wants to kill these programs too, but only if the framing is better.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/the-empty-bully-pulpit_b_913346.html

[DURHAM D]

1. spin failure Joe

[joeybee12]

2. I agree, an epic failure...nt

[JoePhilly]

7. He says that he, and I guess you, COULD accept such cuts, no?

That's what he says.

Cuts to those programs could be accepted.

[Horse with no Name]

22. You'd think he would get dizzy.n/t

[woo me with science]

3. I don't believe you've ever explained why YOU support them. nt

[JoePhilly]

4. I don't support them.

[woo me with science]

6. ...

:rofl:

[JoePhilly]

9. I don't. The reason you are confused on that point

is because I don't run around with my hair on fire every time an unnamed source says that some one heard that Obama was going to gut, slash, dismantle social security of medicare.

[woo me with science]

17. LOL. When do you start defending them

as the best possible deal we could get?

Now? Or do you wait until they are actually passed?

[JoePhilly]

20. If they pass such cuts, I'll be against it ... and ...

Prior to that, I have done, and continue to do what most others on DU should be doing, which is calling my representatives, and the WH so that they know I am against such cuts.

What I won't be doing, is passing a Kidney stone every time some unnamed source, or some pundit who gets paid by generating eye balls to their blog, argues that Obama is planning the end of western civilization, starting with Medicare and Social Security.

[woo me with science]

27. I doubt half of those telling us to be quiet and write letters are actually doing so.

Pardon me, but I am extremely suspicious of those who have a problem when OTHERS speak out loudly when Social Security and Medicare are offered up on a platter by a Democratic President.

Why on EARTH would anyone be against standing loudly against such immoral, destructive policies that are completely antithetical to everything that Democrats have always stood for?

Frankly, I tire of the lectures and the sneering dismissiveness of the people who are standing up for what is right here.

If, by some miracle, we are able to push back enough to stop this now (and make no mistake about it...If we are successful in holding it off now, they will be back soon again, thanks to Obama's having validated this malignant Republican meme...), I will credit the people who spoke out loudly, not the ones who lectured them to shut up.

[JoePhilly]

29. Its the endless hyperbole ... Exhibit A: "offered up on a platter".

Loud is fine. But the endless knee-jerking gets old.

If Obama says REFORM ... that really means DISMANTLE.

Reich actually says "CUTS could be accepted", and that's NOT what he meant.

As for the GOP suddenly going after Social Security and Medicare because of Obama. That's kind of silly. They have been attacking those programs for DECADES. And they aren't going to stop.

[woo me with science]

30. Of course it was offered up on a platter.

What do YOU call 650 billion in cuts to Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security?

[JoePhilly]

32. When do those take effect?

Let's say you have something I want.

So you say to me, ok, what will you give me for X.

I make an offer. And you say, sorry, that's not enough.

Did you serve up X on a platter?

[woo me with science]

33. How absolutely ludicrous

to put forth as an argument that the President has not cut anything, when he has put huge cuts on the table and is begging for them to be accepted.

Come on.

[sabrina 1]

42. You would not offer your grandmother's pension, would you?

To even risk the pittance people are trying to survive on, is reprehensible and that would make you, (generically speaking) a real scumbag, wouldn't it? And if we find out that Democrats risked the survival funds of the least among us, that is what THEY will be, won't they? But a Democrat would never do that, and neither you nor I would ever support them again if they did, would we? Because we really are Democrats.

[JoePhilly]

45. My mother is on Social Security and Medicare.

And the GOP attacks on those programs are never, ever, going to end. Period.

So when the GOP says they want to cut them, and you as President say "ok ... what are you going to give up to get these cuts you want so badly?" ... and they say, "umm nothing." You say, "ok, no deal".

You can even say, " let's say I put up THIS cut ... what are you going to give me back?" ... and they come back with "something weak" ... you can look it whatever they said and say, "No, not worth it, not willing to do that." Which he has done repeatedly.

And by the way, the "thing" is not at risk is you can remove it from the table at any time by saying "no deal".

My point is that there is a hude difference between putting anything on the table, and pushing that thing across the table to the other side.

But on DU, not only has Obama put SS and Medicare on the table ... the claim is that his INTENT is to DISMANTLE those programs.

And so we have endless threads ringing that false bell. It creates lots of eye-balls on those threads. Lots of screaming. Not much else.

[roxiejules]

40. Obama putting Social Security on table....per Third Way

via Third Way Press Room:


"...entitlement reform should be part of the solution to America’s deficit challenge..."

“Third Way has long argued that entitlement reform should be part of the solution to America’s deficit challenge. Not only will it put us back on a sustainable fiscal path, reform will save and strengthen our social safety net. We applaud the President’s willingness to do the right thing and lay hands on the “third rail” of American politics.

Some on the left will attack the President for putting Social Security and Medicare fixes on the table, but without action these programs will eventually crowd out our ability to invest in America’s future and force us to default on our promise to provide for tomorrow’s seniors. Postponing reform indefinitely is not an option, and to delay is not progressive.

For details about Third Way's plan to 'save' Social Security, including raising the retirement age to 70 go here and here.

[sabrina 1]

41. And if they are included in any of the 'agreements' that

result from all this political theater we are watching, what will your position be? A Democrat agreeing to do this would, imo, be completely reprehensible and totally unacceptable.

What should we do then?

[mymomwasright]

5. It's an example

Like all the rest. We don't know why he does the things he does. Even with putting these on the table. He doesn't explain his actions.

[JoePhilly]

13. But Reich clearly says that Obama CAN put those things "on the table"

but that Obama needs to explain why in a better way. Explain "where he's going".

What would Obama have to say to you to get you to accept cuts to those programs.

Here on DU, if Obama uses the word REFORM, the claim is that he means "gut", "slash", "dismantle".

Reich actually uses the word CUT.

I expected the responses I'm getting.

Reich can put potential cuts to these programs on the table, and no one even noticed.

[DURHAM D]

15. The point of Reich's article is that Obama is a bad messenger. eom

[JoePhilly]

23. Yes, and that if he was a better messanger, cuts to ...

Social Security and medicare could not only be be on the table and discussed, and proposed ... those cuts could happen, and it be acceptable.

"If only" ... Obama was a better messenger.

[roxiejules]

39. and I quote......

The Only Social Security Reform Worth Considering: Raising the Ceiling on Income Subject to It

"The very idea that Social Security might be on the chopping block in order to pay the ransom Republicans are demanding reveals both the cravenness of their demands and the callowness of the opposition to those demands......So there’s no reason even to consider reducing Social Security benefits or raising the age of eligibility. The logical response to the increasing concentration of income at the top is simply to raise the ceiling."

- Robert Reich, July 22, 2011

[sabrina 1]

44. I don't think that's what Reich meant. I do think he's making

the point that politicians can sell anything, if they present it properly.

He is absolutely right that there are people, right here on DU eg, who, if he came out and stated clearly what his intentions are, instead of the double talk we hear from him all the time, which he probably thinks is clever, would support just about anything he said he 'had to do'. The problem is because he's being deliberately unclear, his defenders keep saying 'he won't put SS on the table'. I feel sorry them in a way, but he WILL and we're about to find out if he has already. But we do know that he has said, falsely, that SS is connected to the deficit. That is a lie. So, if he would repeat that lie, he would certainly put it on the table.

It would not change MY mind, but Reich is correct, there are those who could be persuaded to sell out the New Deal programs. Which is sad.

[amborin]

8. epic fail in reading comprehension

[JoePhilly]

10. Does he says such cuts could be accepted, yes or no?

Do you agree with him?

[amborin]

11. No, he doesn't; re-read and try to comprehend

[JoePhilly]

14. He says it right in the quote I posted.

[woo me with science]

16. Naw, I seriously doubt that.

These ludicrous stretches in meaning are the only strategy left, since reality is so inconvenient.



There have been some priceless examples lately:

Like this one, which attempts to portray Obama as a defender of the poor and tough on the military, when he actually is begging for cuts in SS and Medicare, and his own defense budget rises next year: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=724983&mesg_id=724983

And this one, which used a web poll to try to claim that Obama is gaining support of independents (legitimate polls show just the opposite): http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x726675


And this one, misrepresenting what Bernie Sanders was actually trying to say: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x718431

[KG]

34. +1

it's become a pasttime of mine to click on these threads to watch the rhetorical gymnastics.

[Autumn]

12. How sad. I can't believe I slept through 2012

and missed Robert Reich being elected President. I must have a lot of reading to do.

[mmonk]

18. Hate to be picky but you left off "if only we understood where the president is leading us."

Reich is not advocating for it nor saying there is a necessity to do so.

[JoePhilly]

19. I didn't leave it off ... its right there in the quote I provided.

He's describing the conditions in which, not only is putting cuts to those programs on the table ok, actual CUTS to those programs could be accepted.

Reich says that actual cuts to those programs could be accept ... "if only" ... what he says after that doesn't really matter dos it?

No matter what comes next, Reich has just said that under some set of conditions, not only could cuts to those programs be considered, or proposed, they could even be ACCEPTED.

If some one in the administration said something remotely similar, this place would be on fire.

[Bluenorthwest]

24. If wishes were dollars, beggars would be kings!

If pigs could fly, umbrellas would be much more popular in summer.

[Bluenorthwest]

21. This OP gets the 'Blue Links Award' for 180 degree spin.

It must have hurt to type it.

[JoePhilly]

26. Reich clearly says cuts to those programs could be accepted.

"If only" Obama were a better leader.

Do you agree with him? If Obama was a better leader, would you accept cuts to those programs?

Reich even goes so far as to toss in "practical necessities of politics" as an ok reason, "if only" Obama were a better leader.

[Bluenorthwest]

38. If a dog could dance, it could join the Ballet....

If magical beans grew bean stalks, jack could climb to the sky.

[woo me with science]

43. LOL.

Actually, there's a pretty competitive field of nominees this week.

[Vinnie From Indy]

25. F A I L

unrec

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

28. So...where IS the president leading us with cuts to SS and Medicare?

And, if he knows, why isn't he telling us? And, if he really wants the public informed about all of this, why aren't the negotiations televised?

[JoePhilly]

31. What should he tell you to get you to accept cuts to those programs?

Reich seems to think that there is something Obama could say to you such that you would accept cuts to those programs.

So, I ask you, what could Obama say to you to get you to ACCEPT cuts to those programs?

My bet is that there is nothing he could say. And Reich's argument on this is wrong.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

35. Well, he isn't saying anything about why the cuts are "necessary" so we'll never know.

I think you're right. There is nothing he could say to justify his abandonment of the poor, the old, the ill. Thus, his silence as he plays political games with their lives.

[Flubadubya]

36. You really don't know exactly what he meant when he said this...

nor does the author go into any detail about what Mr. Reich means by "cuts". Nonetheless, you know as well as I do that there has been a great deal of talk about cutting wasteful administrative/bureaucratic spending on these programs.

Of course, I don't know any more than you do just where Mr. Reich is coming from when he makes this statement, but given the man's longstanding track record and reliable history of upholding real Democratic values on such matters, I certainly do see him being open to having MC and SS "on the table" for cuts in this area. I do NOT see him being ready to slash any part of the programs that have to do with recipients' benefits... and if you're really honest with yourself, I imagine you do not either.

Nonetheless, it certainly does "fit your agenda" to try and spin this as Reich being in favor of the decimation of SS and MC along the lines of what the Rethugs want to do, but you really know that is not the case.

Your attempts to try and "fool" the denizens of DU are simply laughable!

Edit for typo.

[MannyGoldstein]

37. *could*

Not saying that he'd necessary support them.