Former Governor Jesse Ventura: "This is not the country I was born in. We're a fascist nation now."

[kpete]

Former Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura lambasted Friday at a federal court hearing "un-American" security procedures implemented at airports across the nation in 2010.

He filed a lawsuit with the Transportation Security Administration in January, claiming their use of pat down searches at airport security checkpoints is unconstitutional. Pioneer Press reported that a lawyer for Ventura argued in federal court that the searches violate his Fourth Amendment right against unreasonable and unwarranted searches.

The Justice Department has filed a motion to have the lawsuit dismissed, claiming that the searches are legal and that they can only be challenged in a federal appeals court.

"In a free country, you should never feel comfortable being searched," Ventura told the Justice Department lawyer Tamara Ulrich. "This is not the country I was born in. We're a fascist nation now."

http://www.twincities.com/ci_18533113?nclick_check=1
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/07/23/former-governor-jesse-ventura-were-a-fascist-nation-now/

[gateley]

1. Governor, you speak for many of us. nt

[Emelina]

73. With these people running things...

it is not a surprise:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MZCHjGkTPg&feature=related

We have self interested people striving to gain and keep their power. They use "terrorism" to scare us all into thinking that we have to go all "East Germany" to protect our freedoms. Thing is, that is like throwing a chunk of meet into a pond full of piranha in order to preserve it.

[pezDispenser]

83. This moron doesn't speak for me

I put him in the same camp as Ron Paul. A camp full of broken clocks.

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pezDispenser]

107. If you would educate yourself on his lawsuit a bit

you might find out that he isn't suing for your right not to be searched, he's suing for his. Because he is special. Read up here.

[defendandprotect]

128. Ventura wants extreme security measures to be deemed "unconstitutional" ...

Think that would cover all of us --

All the one-time politician and actor wants is for the extreme security measures to be deemed "unconstitutional," and get an injunction "that would prevent the TSA from targeting him," he explained.

[JDPriestly]

97. Let's assume that airport security is needed.

Do you think it will be needed forever?

What criteria should be met in order for it to be discontinued, in order for us to return to having freedom of travel?

I think people are willing to accept a violation of a basic human need and right for a specific time or at least a time that is scheduled to end upon the accomplishment of certain conditions.

But so far I haven't heard anything about what it would take to cause the government to end this program -- other than maybe a default and national bankruptcy.

Do you know what the deal is on this?

[pezDispenser]

105. I tend to agree with him on this particular issue

but overall, Ventura doesn't speak for me. The pro's and con's of Ventura's ideals have been debated on this board over and over. IMHO of the man, he is predominantly a lying, blowhard bully. Reasonable people may disagree.

As for my Ron Paul reference, I do agree with him that the US shouldn't police the world. That probably the only thing I think he is correct on, hence the broken clock reference.

[JDPriestly]

126. I also agree that the US should not police the world.

I recognize that there terrible crimes are committed in different countries sometimes against people just because of how they look or their family background or ethnicity. But we should not have to bear so much of the burden of protecting the weak.

Besides it makes us look like bullies, and there is bound to be a backlash against our children and grandchildren one of these days no matter how well meaning our interventions are.

[backtomn]

157. Ventura is a self-promoter, plain and simple.

Nearly everything he does is about HIM. I had the opportunity to see and hear just about all of it, being from MN.

He lived his young life as a liberal (small L), whoring around the world. When the opportunity presented itself, he was doing "conservative" talk radio. His election run saw him attacking both sides, at a time when that could be successful. However, when it was time to govern, he realized that he was in a Democratic state, so he sided with the dems. After leaving office, he was out of the public eye......and he was personally angry with the way he was treated by TSA.........shazam....his next crusade.

It is fine to say you agree with his new issue.....but do not make the mistake of making him some sort of posterboy. Not happening.

[jberryhill]

138. "to return to having freedom of travel?"

Can you be more specific about that?

The metal detectors and carry-on x-rays have been there for decades.

Is x-raying your bag not a search, or were you thinking of a return to "we're flying to Cuba" as "freedom of travel?"

[gateley]

120. That's why I didn't include you in the "many". nt

[pezDispenser]

121. Thank you

I'm not into aspiring 'benevolent dictators' who through out red meat from time to time in hope we forget their past actions.

[BobbyBoring]

129. Taht wood be

Throw~

[pezDispenser]

152. Tahnks for pointing that out

[Name removed]

122. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[watajob]

158. This is the problem.

Yeah, he's a little looney. But, lets just insult him instead of trying to work with him to get something done on an issue we have in common. Remember audit the Fed? Kucinich and Paul. 'Nuff said.

[pezDispenser]

159. I understand what you are saying

And that plan certainly has merit. Though I do applaud his change of heart on this matter, I just don't think Ventura is a guy I want to rally behind. He's in this for himself, when he filed he knew it would go nowhere. He also had a failing TV show to promote. My belief is that he's using this simply to promote himself. Coupling that with his previous actions and and current wacky beliefs is enough to turn me off of this guy. Maybe now that the suit is over, he can go back to finding out who really was behind the 9/11 attacks.

[KamaAina]

171. Ventura is no Ron Paul

Ron Paul is a rabid racist anti-choicer. Ventura is neither.

[MrMickeysMom]

2. We've been that kind of nation for some time, Jesse...

It's only getting apparent now.

[SusanaMontana41]

53. Yup. Codified by the Supremes in "Citizens United." n/t

[in_cog_ni_to]

3. He just now figured that out?

:(

[tavalon]

17. They are taking down the veneer now. No need for it anymore.

[Pacifist Patriot]

21. I don't think this is anything new with him. The difference is...

now he's got a case providing a public forum for the views.

[defendandprotect]

85. Maybe not just now -- but he's certainly one of the FEW speaking against it -- !!!

Think of how long ago it was that Rep. Hale Boggs spoke out in Congress about

our FBI/Gestapo --

I should find his comments and add them here ...


:(

[harun]

90. Like most of us I am sure he's known this for some time. Power doesn't care about hiding

it anymore now though. Because they know no one can do anything about it and they own all the major media.

[defendandprotect]

92. Agree ... but ...

of course there is always something we can do about it --

However, it will mean risking starvation and death to do it as far as I can see now.

They've done this via violence and wealth -- they were permitted to gain great wealth

which enabled them to transfer power from the many to the few --

We've had more than 50 years of in plain view political violence -- and much more

before that --

Though we had the Constitution, they had time to destroy democracy --

[harun]

93. If the middle class of the Confederacy and the Union unite, it could happen.

I don't see that happening in my lifetime though.

[defendandprotect]

104. Didn't elites convince the poor and middle class in the South to go to

war and sacrifice their lives for the right of elites to enslave others?

Always wondered if elites would be forced to free the South -- and its women --



Brings up another question -- was there actually ever a Nixon "Southern Strategy"

or was there only ever Diebold voting machines/computers -- ?


And isn't Gov. Perry talking secession -- and none call it "treason" -- ?



Think the South has mainly and always been under fascist control --

[harun]

130. They love fascism, as long as they are the boss.

[autorank]

4. k*r Jesse is telling it like it is

We have massive expenditures and worse, massive invasions of our bodies, just to fly commercial. Why? Underpants and Shoe bomber guys. The underpants bomber bypassed security in the Netherlands, that's the source of the latest incident. Instead of investigating that and tightening up,
the witnesses were ignored, no tapes were released, and we got massive distribution of scanners. What a crock. Give 'em Hell Jesse.

[Kaleko]

5. Seconded!

[Plucketeer]

37. Thirded! nt

[woo me with science]

10. +100000

[geckosfeet]

55. And a virtually unlimited military budget.

[HowHasItComeToThis]

123. BANG BASTARD MILITARY

[geckosfeet]

162. Not sure what you are saying - my point is that even with all the money dumped

into the military the government types still need to have all kinds of whacko security schemes.

Point is - it is money wasted on the military. It apparently DOES NOT keep us safe.

[handmade34]

6. as I am old...

and I have exclaimed many times over these past few years "This is not the country I was born into"... I don't expect things to remain stagnant... I just figured we would progress, not regress!!!

[whathehell]

20. +10

[defendandprotect]

58. The world has never figured out how to deal with the violent few among us ...

and that's how they rise --

They've always been with us -- pushing people off the land -- raping and murdering.

They were here when we got the Constitution -- and they will continue to be here

until we find a way to stop their violence.

[nineteen50]

110. I am old too

But my memory works fine and I remember when it all started
down hill. It started with "greed is good" Ronnie
ray-guns.

[handmade34]

143. that is when it became palpable

I am reading Jeff Madrick'S "Age of Greed"... check it out, it tells the bigger picture...


welcome nineteen50 :hi:

[jberryhill]

142. Perhaps you missed a few things....

Can you be more specific about which US you were born into?

[handmade34]

144. touché

you suggest that I am impatient to expect greater things?

[jberryhill]

154. No, but beware of "golden age" nostalgia

Having been born into an America that was just about to begin drafting young people and sending them to fight in Vietnam, the idea that we are screaming "fascism" over the affliction of airport security upon those who can afford air travel in the first place just doesn't strike me as the greatest indignity I can recall.

The folks who generally want to return to an America "when things were better" want to return to one sort of like the one I remember in which my waistline was 30 inches, I could run a few miles at a time, I didn't wear glasses (let alone bifocals), and my back felt a whole lot better.

[fivepennies]

156. That straw

that broke the camel's back seemed so insignificant.

People often put up with the damnedest indignities for almost ever and then blow a gasket over something that seems so trivial ...

[handmade34]

160. 2 step forwards

1 step back...

I was born into a United States that was still lynching black people and a Vietnam War that hadn't begun yet... I could run in the woods and climb trees and my typing teacher still cracked my knuckles with her ruler...

my point wasn't that I was nostalgic for an era gone by... I understand evolution and ever changing landscapes. I don't expect stagnation and I recognize that we have righted some horrific wrongs... just not enough of them!

We have the knowledge and the means... just not the collective will.

[Ruby the Liberal]

7. If the case is tossed, but you can only challenge in a "federal appeals court" how do you get there?

One cannot just begin the legal process at an appellate court level.

[Angry Dragon]

9. I guess American citizens have no standing in courts

[jberryhill]

13. Under this statute, yes you can

Article III of the Constitution gives Congess authority to determine which courts have jurisdiction over what.

In this instance, the statute is quite clear.

[JDPriestly]

98. Depends on why it was tossed.

But, if the lower court tossed it, then Ventura can try to appeal. Whether he will succeed or not is another question.

[lonestarnot]

8. A little slow there Jessie?

[woo me with science]

11. Jesse gets it. nt

[Wednesdays]

12. Now, if only you and your comrades in Perot's party had seen this ca. 1992,

Just maybe we could have avoided said descent into fascism, hmm?
:argh:

[defendandprotect]

61. How do you mean that -- ???

Clinton brought the DLC into the Democratic Party in '92 --

He knew unions no longer had enough money to support the kind of presidential

campaign he wanted to run --

Koch Bros funded the DLC and were harbored in the Dem Party for 20 years infiltrating

and influencing the party -- its agenda -- its candidates, even its presidential candidates.


Are you saying you wish Perot had won?

[white_wolf]

14. I don't know how he did as governor(someone want to fill me in on that?)

but he is right on this account.

[Zookeeper]

33. He was short-sighted and squandered our surplus with tax...

refunds. One of the reasons for Minnesota's current crisis.

[fivepennies]

38. Squandered? By giving it back to the people?

End pork-barrel spending; return surplus to the people

I decided to run for governor because I got mad. In 1997, the State of Minnesota had a budget surplus of more then $4 billion. The voters wanted that surplus returned to them because, in their opinion, they’d been overcharged. But Minnesota legislators chose to ignore the wishes of the people and instead dreamed up all kinds of pork-barrel projects to make themselves look good when reelection time came. Some of that surplus money was bonded to pay for high-profile projects that the people didn’t want. As a result, our children are going to have to assume the payments on the out-of-date convention centers and sports facilities these politicians built to help themselves get reelected. Is that how we show our children we care for them? Is that the kind of public servants the voters really want?

I want to make government more directly accountable to the people.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Jesse_Ventura_Budget_+_Economy.htm



BAD boy. :smoke:

[calimary]

51. isn't that what dubya did? Come in with a surplus and then announce "that's YER money"

And send it out in tax cuts - which left us UNEQUIPPED to cover emergencies, and then on the backs of those tax cuts, started two unfunded wars.

Not entirely convinced Jesse Ventura is all-wise.

[fivepennies]

57. NO one is all-wise.

That's why smart people continue to study and grow and sometimes alter their opinions to encompass that new knowledge.

When Bush said "that's yer money", who did he give it to, us? I sure as hell didn't get any of it, did you?

[calimary]

65. I didn't get any of it either. But he sure did give it out - to those he referred to as

"my base" : the haves and have-mores.

[Zookeeper]

115. People with his philosophy usually argue that State budgets....

should be managed like household budgets. I don't know about you, but I prefer to have something extra set aside (a surplus) for emergencies. If he was concerned about the surplus being spent on pork barrel projects, he should have done something to prevent that, rather than empty the savings account. He left our schools, infrastructure and public services vulnerable to Tim Pawlenty's RW presidential ambitions.

My refund is long gone (can't even remember it, that's how much of an impact it had), and the State is a mess.

Jesse is really kind of a meathead.

[fivepennies]

117. "Kind of a meathead,"

Hard to argue with that kind of logic. :eyes:

I won't disagree that the state is a mess, but why are you taking the heat off Pawlenty?

[Zookeeper]

164. I'm not. Don't get me started on Timmy...

However, seeing as Jesse was my governor, I've had plenty of opportunity to form an opinion of him.

[AllyCat]

15. Never did I think I would agree with this man. He might actually fight for the people.

[krabigirl]

16. K&R

[7wo7rees]

18. He is spot-on.

If we don't get ahead of the TSA and their breach of our rights as citizens, we *will* be in a fascist state. They will take it farther. TSA becomes SS.
I'm not gonna go all Alex Jones over this, but Jesse is right and you know it. It's fragile, this place. We let things like this slide at our peril.

[DemReadingDU]

19. +++

[treestar]

22. If we lived in a fascist nation, we couldn't challenge the procedures in a court now, could we?

What is it with the overdramatic hyperbole in this nation? It does not promote clear thinking. It's our real problem.

[CleanGreenFuture]

25. Citizen's United was a challenge of the procedures, was it not?

[treestar]

34. Yes. So? Even if we don't win, at least the opposition was able to

argue its case in the Court. In a fascist state, that doesn't happen.

Congress can still pass laws on the subject too. A Congress elected by the people, which also does not happen in a fascist state.

[CleanGreenFuture]

40. It was decided by a fascist court. It's the difference between a just

court and one that is fascist that we're talking about here.

What your describing is part of the facade.

[treestar]

69. What fascist court?

Courts in the US follow the law and precedent. Often when people don't agree with a decision, they don't read the opinion or understand the law. And courts can make precedent we don't personally agree with and not be "fascist."

[defendandprotect]

79. Right .. like when Judges are sending kids to prison for their own profit and profit olf

private institutions?

Like systems of rape in our prisons for profit --

Like using prison labor as slave labor --

Returing to methods of "punishment" --


What you're pretty much saying is you wouldn't recognize fascism if it bit you

on the toe!

[Drew Richards]

116. Pennsylvania yeah that was just fu****** evil...guess which party the judges and prosecuter are in..

[treestar]

168. You may not like it, but dealing drugs is against the law

If people are sent to prison for it, that is not "fascist." It is based on statutory law. If the jury founds the defendant violated the law, they go to prison.

And this not being a fascist state, you are free to advocate to your elected representatives any change in the law.

[zeemike]

42. So you think that Germany and Italy had no cort system?

And they did away with it altogether?
That is not how things work and not how Fascism came to be either.

[CleanGreenFuture]

43. That's right. All you need to continue the facade is a fascist court, which our

Supreme Court majority certainly is.

[defendandprotect]

80. +1000% -- and long has it reigned unchallenged by our Democratic Party -- !!!

Which, btw, was under Koch Bros/DLC influence these last 20 years -- !!

[treestar]

71. So you think just because fascist governments pretend to have a court system

That makes ours fascist too?

Jesse really can take his problem to the courts if he wants to. The Courts will decide according to law and precedent. Jesse can also say what he wants to say about the subject without being jailed. He can challenge any rule he likes.

If a court decides Jesse is wrong and the rule is constitutional after all, that does not make our system "fascist."

[zeemike]

96. Well it did not start out that way.....it was corrupted.

Just as in Germany....the courts were civilized and believed in human rights....judges were fair followed the law.
Then Hitler used fear to change all that....it happened over time, but soon the legal system was brought into the Nazi program.
The US is a much bigger country and it takes longer, but it will come around to the new order...unless we catch on.

[defendandprotect]

131. The Courts and Judges these days will decide based on their own leanings ....

If they are "honest men" presumably it will be decided according to law and

precedent --

If they are "dishonest men" presumably it will not be --


You might want to review some of the things that have gone down in our most recent

times -- like RW Senators conspiring to move to put a particular Judge in place to

entrap Clinton -- and I'm just commenting on the placement of the Judge and the

RW Senators -- NOT on what Clinton did or did not do.

You might also consider the RW wealth which pushed and continued for years the

Arkansas investigation. You might consider Kenneth Starr and his reporting back to

his RW allies that given his investigations he could find nothing against Clinton --

and his being told to go back to work -- and a year and a half or so later, Starr

was back with Paula Jones.


Consider all of those on death row who have been found innocent --

Consider all of those in prison for rape who have been found innocent --

Consider the movement of the RW to brutalize prisoners -- enforce punishments --

to demean and degrade prisoners -- the many officials engaged in fostering rape in

the prisons, sometimes for their personal profit.

Consider the Supreme Court's decisions which have been an embarrassment throughout the

world -- from capital punishment for youngsters -- to Bush vs Gore --


You might also give some thought to our fake "Drug War" and the many imprisoned now

for smoking pot while more serious criminals are never even prosecuted --

and the Drug War used as a way for offenders possessions to be taken.


You might also give some thought as to how Clarence Thomas even reached the Supreme Court --

a man who was deemed inferior by the ABA -- and the ABA almost immediately being removed

ever more from any official comment on nominees.

You might reflect on Joe Biden's behavior during the hearings which assured that Thomas

would reach the high court --

And I'm sure you know of the ethical concerns in regard to Thomas --



You might also be interested to know that it looks like there was also a conspiracy among

the panel in the House where the ethics of Rep. Maxine Waters and Rep. Charlie Rangel came

under study -- it is possibly a case of both having been targeted.


On and on -- when it comes to our Department of Justice look at former Gov. Don Siegelmann --

and the conspiracy among those working for the Bush administration to put loyal rightwing

supporters of Bush into the DOJ -- rather than supporters of our Constitution and Constitutional

rights.

And look at our prisons system itself -- more than 2 million locked up now - 1 in every 34

Americans -- !!


ALL OF GOVERNMENT IS LIKE A TYEWRITER -- IT DEPENDS ON WHO IS DOING THE TYPING!!



"Beware of those with a strong urge to punish" --

[fivepennies]

133. The Gulf oil spill

An Associated Press analysis has found that more than half of the federal judges in districts where the bulk of Gulf oil spill-related lawsuits are pending have financial connections to the oil and gas industry. This could complicate the task of finding judges without conflicts to hear the cases.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37937049/ns/disaster_in_the_gulf/t/judge-oil-spill-case-sells-energy-stocks/

Nuff said.

[defendandprotect]

146. Thank you -- hadn't heard about that --

We need to NATIONALIZE the oil industry --

no private interests should have control over our natural resources --


Unfortunately, as I think we learned during the BP "spill" and the gentle treatment

of BP that Obama provided, OIL sseems to be a national security issue --

MIC uses 80% of our oil - no oil/no wars -- !!


Capitalism is suicidal -- and it's taking us all with them!!




Thanks ... didn't know about that -- Similar to Surpemes and ExxonValdez lawsuits ....

think they took it from $500 billion down to $500 million!!

[fivepennies]

148. You're welcome.

I wanted to show that to the people who still claim the courts are fair and unbiased. Justice in the court system is a sweet dream and some among us are still sound asleep.

Yes, the oil AND the capital business need to be nationalized. Private consortiums have bought our leaders and together they're eating our lunch (fascism).

[defendandprotect]

150. +1 -- Thanks again -- !! :)

[fivepennies]

153. Yeppers, you bet

and I'd like to ask the people who are disparaging the governor over this suit, who they think has more influence over the courts in this country, BP or homeland security and the TSA.

Also, for those claiming that this was all about Jesse Ventura selfishly promoting Jesse Ventura, they could ask themselves how far this lawsuit would have gone if he had named "the flying public" as plaintiffs.

[treestar]

167. Of course you can find problems in any system

And you seem focused one exotic cases, which you probably have not read all of the opinions on.

Just you disagreeing with a result in a case doesn't mean the system is "fascist."

Judges have to write opinions on the law and the opposing party can appeal - in a fascist state, no one can appeal.

[Divernan]

84. The Nazis were masters of extraordinary rendition.

[defendandprotect]

78. Did you ever hear of the Nuremberg Laws? Same as our fascist Gang of 5 ... !!

[Ed Suspicious]

26. When the courts are staffed by fascists, the idea of our ability for it

to have it's day in court doesn't give me much solace.

[jberryhill]

31. Calling the judge a fascist is a great way to win a case

[defendandprotect]

87. We were depending on our elected officials -- Dem Party -- to be vigilant vs fascism....

didn't quite happen --

by the time of the 1963 coup on our president and our people's government --

they were paralyzed --

Had they reacted more vigilantly to the McCarthy Era, they might have had a chance?


But this government is born in violence, conquest, theft of nations and natural

resources -- genocide -- and it hasn't changed much since then!

[treestar]

35. I see no reason to assume the courts all entirely corrupt in this nation

at the time. That's the hyperbole I am talking about.

[Ed Suspicious]

36. I guess I'm mainly talking about the 3+1 on the supremes. n/t

[defendandprotect]

89. They don't have to ALL be corrupt -- Once corruption is introduced, however ...

it moves along corrupting the entire system --

Think of the hundreds of liberal/progressive judges who never got appointed

because they were held up by Repugs during the Clinton administration --

and same now with Obama --

Think of how corporate/fascism will expand now given "Citizens United" decision --

Think of how corporate/fascsim was expanded during W Bush years because of the

Gang of 5's interference with the election --

[Divernan]

41. With the provisions of the Patriot Act and particularly taking away habeas corpus,

No, you cannot challenge the procedures in a court of law.

[Ignis]

46. You've never heard the term "kangaroo courts," then?

Oooooooookay, I guess. :freak:

[socialist_n_TN]

68. Fascism doesn't come in full blown

It's usually instituted a bit at a time until enough power is amassed this way to make it overt. I prefer to point out fascistic tendencies BEFORE we get to the full blown fascist stage.

[defendandprotect]

77. Don't think you're really tuned in to what fascism is .....

It's authoritarian rule --

and what we have is corporate/fascism -- take a look at the trade agreements

if you're not clear on what it's all about --

ahem -- everyone else is not thinking clearly? :ROFL:



What was the McCarthy Era if not fascism?

A blowback against the propaganda of "equality for all" and "democracy" used to

win WWII --

and we have never recovered from it --

[rep the dems]

113. And when the tea baggers say it, we rightly call them out for the foolishness.

When Jesse Ventura does it, he gets nearly 300 recommendations on DU. Very unfortunate.

[defendandprotect]

134. When the T-baggers say it ... they have entirely different people in mind ....

Both sides may say that we have a "government by gangsterism" -- as I came to learn

evidently Bachmann was saying --

My comment was original to me --

However, we are accusing entirely different people of the gangsterism, obviously!!

[BumRushDaShow]

23. Where was he when Shrub created the DHS nightmare?

Over in China promoting "free trade".

Any DUers who continue to push anti-Wellstone Libertarian-types like Ventura, boggle the mind. :crazy:

[fivepennies]

32. Maybe you missed it -

didn't you know the governor has accused China of stealing water out of the Great Lakes to fill their aquifers? I don't think he considers that free trade.

Of course he also called out T Boone Pickens and Nestle over the water theft that's going on in this country.

What does that have to do with Paul Wellstone?

[BumRushDaShow]

48. Look up the party that he originally affiliated with sometime

where ilk like Pat Buchanan and Donald Trump were members. Then check out who he appointed to replace Wellstone to fill the seat after his unfortunate accident. Certainly not a Democrat. But keep embracing him. :crazy:

[fivepennies]

49. Yes, the governor was friends

with Trump and may well still be, but he opposed the Buchanan candidacy who's political insanity was the main reason Ventura dropped out of the reform party and went Independent. He's more of an equal opportunity basher than partisan or bi-partisan or wishy washy about anything.

And yes, Ventura and Wellstone had some differences. Are you claiming one was always right and the other always wrong?

BTW, just like anyone else who thinks about things, the governor's views on many issues have changed over the ensuing years. No matter how you try to parse it, this is not a bad thing.

[BumRushDaShow]

50. I thought that many posters on DU had implemented a purity test

regarding who a "real Democrat™" is and many of those same people who vested authority unto themselves to define the party have suddenly started agreeing with the likes of Libertarians like Ron Paul and quasi-Libertarians like Jesse Ventura. It's a bit mind-boggling but such is life on a political discussion board. :crazy:

[fivepennies]

54. Look, I have no issue with people's

definitions or dislikes about any given ism, but I do think its incumbent on all of us to find out all we can about others before we reach our conclusions. Ventura wants Glass Steagall back, how is that libertarian, or even quasi libertarian?

Incidentally, I personally think of Ron Paul as the modern day Caligula and he scares the crap out of me. I know the governor said at one time that he would consider a presidential run with Paul if Paul would renounce the republican party and go independent. I'm not sure what point he was trying to make with that, but I certainly opposed it and it wouldn't have happened anyway.

That said, Paul's position on the federal reserve is almost in lock step with Dennis Kucinich. Go figure.

[BumRushDaShow]

75. Believe me

I have no issue with complaining about the overreach of parts of the gov't created by RW lunatics (which essentially requires Congress to fix), and the fact that this nation has systematically carved our rights away - including back when Ed Meese agreed to warrant-less garbage-picking as part of what has been a gradual elimination of the 4th Amendment.

My problem is that we might not have gotten to this stage had these quasi politicians seen the handwriting on the wall and battled early on against the nonsense that resulted in what we are suffering through today. You had a single member of the House (Barbara Lee) who voted against the authorization of the use of force back in 2001 and she was almost hounded out of Congress. Yet the so-called "anti-war" Ron Paul voted for the authorization. :crazy:


And the problem with the silver-tongued Ron Pauls and Ralph Naders and evidently the Jesse Venturas of the world is their inconsistency and their prolific emphasis on things that one side "might want to hear" (while masking the other side). If you want to know what Ron Paul really stands for, just look at his spawn in the Senate. For every mention of his support for abortion-rights and gays, is his non-mention of the teabaggery that he supports and his son openly espouses like eliminating the Public Accommodations law because dammit if a "private" (codeword) restaurant doesn't want to serve Black people, then they shouldn't be forced to!!! Similarly, Jesse Ventura is anti-union but that's not highlighted.

There are alot of people who have issues with the Federal Reserve. I work 1/2 block from the last 2 "experiments" at having a central bank - both of which are broken relics (one is a museum, the other a portrait gallery) of failed policies that lead to the current system). But whatever a replacement might be needs to really really really be well-thought out. The cronyism and corrumption of the government allowed the first 2 banks to fail and the cronyism and corruption of the private sector allows the current arrangement to take our economy into a death sprial.

Jesse is essentially demanding that the gate be locked after the horse has escaped. The march towards fascism, or better corporatism, had already been underway well before Pres. Obama was elected, having been openly heralded to the world with the selection of Shrub by the Supreme court. I had, with all intents and purposes, planned on voting for Dennis Kucinich during the 2008 primary but he dropped out of the race before the PA primary. But I did watch him for 5 hours while he read off his 35 Articles of Impeachment against Shrub. But this doesn't mean that "his way" is going to work in an environment populated by a myriad of perspectives within a party that won't or can't function in lockstep. Ironically, I was shocked that up until Scott Brown got in, the Senate Dems (including the blue dogs) were actually able to thwart more than they have in the past but in exchange, we got a watered-down Health law and Glass-Steagall wasn't completely restored (although it is mostly back but needs much work).

In a nutshell Ideology can help to shape a vision but ultimately, there must be some sort of practicality when it comes to the nuts and bolts of governing, and nowadays, few politicians (and posters on DU) seem to grasp that concept. :(

[fivepennies]

88. I basically agree with everything you said there.

but from all I've seen and read (and that's quite a lot) about the governor's positions, he'd be considered anything but a corporatist.

Practicality? When you're talking about government you might as well get that word out of your vocabulary. What's going on right now is we're finally seeing the culmination of the corporatists long term goal to make us hate and distrust our government so we'll fall neatly into their plan to dominate the world. They've been working at taking it over from behind the scenes for hundreds if not thousands of years and the gloves are coming off. But they ARE thinking practically and pragmatically as opposed to most of the rest of us who tend to think according to our ideologies and idealism. Its not hard to see who's winning that war.

As far as I'm concerned, Jesse Ventura is about the most practical person out there at this point in time and he doesn't mind getting right in the faces of people who are lying to us. No one else does that and I respect him for it.

[BumRushDaShow]

99. Well I never considered

him a "corporatist" at all. The argument was more to look at the motivation behind his sudden appearance and comments - why now and not earlier? In fact, there are suspiciously a number of folks who have suddenly appeared on the scene after being silent for some time. Then I check their motives and ah ha! You find out that they are http://www.booksigningcentral.com/2011/03/27/jesse-ventura-book-signing-tour-63-documents-the-government-doesnt-want-you-to-read/">doing a book tour and have been http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/06/jesse-ventura-assuming-the-role-of-hunter-s-thompson/">making appearances to promote it. And what's this? http://content.usatoday.com/communities/onpolitics/post/2011/04/jesse-ventura-ron-paul-2012-presidential-race-/1">He floated the idea of being Ron Paul's running mate in the 2012 election?

Sorry but he can talk "independent" but when you look at "independents", he is no Bernie Sanders (but thankfully no Joe Lieberman either)! Besides he thinks little of Al Franken, someone heralded here on DU. So I step lightly with these folks.

And with respect to someone who "gets in the face" of people, the #1 version of that was (and is) Alan Grayson and sadly he was targeted and voted out and thankfully he will run again. But we'll have to wait a nightmarishly long time before he can grace the hallways of congress once more! But I would trust the voice of an Alan Grayson than a Jesse Ventura.

Glad to be able to debate without all the acrimony that has overtaken DU! :hi:

[fivepennies]

103. I'm not going to copy your comments about

"where had Jesse been" or "why was he silent for so long", but I'll try to fill in some of the background on that. He had a three year contract with MSNBC which was canceled. Here's one of his interviews about it:

Q: This is not your first venture into TV hosting since leaving the governorship. What happened to "Jesse Ventura's America," which ran briefly on MSNBC in 2003?

> Then, all of a sudden, weird phone calls started happening: "Is it true Jesse doesn't support the war in Iraq?"

A: My contract said I couldn't do any other cable TV or any news shows, and they honored and paid it for the duration of it. So in essence I had my silence purchased. Why do you think you didn't hear from me for three years? I was under contract. They wouldn't even use me as a consultant!

When you live in Mexico, your houses all have names. I almost named my house Casa MSNBC because they bought it. I was paid like a professional athlete, and I got very wealthy. For doing nothing.

http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2009/11/ventura_says_ms.php

I love both Alan Grayson and Bernie Sanders, but there's enough left over for Jesse, too.

Debate without acrimony is always good and it takes two to make it happen!!! :toast:

[defendandprotect]

136. What Jesse Ventura is saying is no surprise to most of us ---

Ventura isn't turning our heads --

We are simply agreeing with his getting this one right!!

[Remember Me]

24. Unfortunately, TSA is the least of it, Jesse

Take a bigger, longer look and you'll likely agree.

[defendandprotect]

137. +1000% ---

[pasto76]

27. I think in a free country, you SHOULD feel comfrotable being searched

with due process and probable cause of course. In a free society, I shouldnt have to worry about corruption. Show me your duly appropriated warrant, and you can search all you want. Thanks.

[paparush]

147. When your options are - Go through this backscatter scanner or be patted down..

Then you really have no options.

[neoralme]

28. Gleichschaltung revisited.

[ooglymoogly]

29. KR.....Time for you to run again Jesse.

folks like you are few and far between. Senator Ventura....has a good ring to it. The courts are now a useless if not downright dangerous venue for justice.

[jberryhill]

30. Lambasted who?

The judge?

He told a court that the US is a fascist country? Really? That's a wonderful strategy for reaching a reasoned conclusion.

[kenfrequed]

39. this is a nonsense...

Sometimes my former Governor says things that make sense.

This is ridiculous. Pat downs at airports are contingent upon your use of a specific form of transportation. While it might be abusive it doesn't constitute unconstitutionality.

[Twostones]

44. Fourteen Defining Characteristics Of Fascism

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread
domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

[fivepennies]

60. Can anybody say "we're there"?

Thanks for that list. I think.

[The Big Vetolski]

119. Well, we've definitely got 12 out of 14!

#s 5 and 8 haven't been imposed successfully lately, but it sure wasn't for like of trying, now was it?

[Exultant Democracy]

45. Feel obliged to say the country he was born into was already a police state for minorities

[qb]

47. His has not always been the most credible voice, but he is loud...

and it is good to hear him challenge the policies the Bush admin created.
:kick:

[Blue_In_AK]

52. Jesse's right. n/t

[LibDemAlways]

56. The 4th amendment is supposed to protect against "unreasonable" search

and seizure. Since when is nudie-scanning and groping the traveling public "reasonable"? Ventura is absolutely right.

[Rex]

59. It is because the DHS and other Big Brother agencies cannot

justify their existence...so they create an environment where ANYONE (even that 95 year old grandma in a wheelchair) could be armed and dangerous. They create an illusion that doesn't exist in facts so they can get their bi-monthly paycheck.

There is no other reason for the Gestapo we've created in the GWB Era.

[defendandprotect]

64. ... and it's all hidden behind faked perpetual wars -- !!!

[LibDemAlways]

67. Agree with you 1000%. Long before nudie scans I saw an

elderly Alzheimers patient being abused by TSA in Seattle. They yanked off her shoes and hoisted her up to be wanded. She looked terrified - had no idea what the hell was happening to her. Today it's much much worse. It's a crime against law-abiding travelers that this shit is allowed to occur in the first place.

[treestar]

72. Reams of case law have been written on the Fourth Amendment

Our individual opinions based solely on the language as we see it are not the law.

But the point is that we can challenge laws in the courts, and use Fourth Amendment precedent to argue against a law - not the case in a "fascist" state.

[defendandprotect]

140. Common sense is to govern our laws --

and you keep commenting on this "opportunity" to challenge laws in the courts --

Recall former Gov. Don Siegelmann -- see anything wrong there?

You're also seemingly presuming a pure and pristine system of law and those executing them!

That would be naive --

[treestar]

166. Our system is functional

It is not the show system of a fascist state. Whatever word is the opposite of naive works here. It's being ridiculous to dismiss the fact that we can challenge laws in the courts and based on law and precedent - unlike in a fascist system. It's appalling ignorance not to acknowledge that.

[defendandprotect]

169. Look at ExxonValdez and BP -- and you suggest there are court challenges?

Look at Bush vs Gore --

If you're expecting fascism all the time from these courts, you'd only

be right about 60% of the time!!

"Functional" isn't the criteria -- justice is the criteria --

[cottonseed]

62. I don't understand how we're any worse today. I don't see muslims in camps.

And this is a country supposedly at War. Didn't the country intern Japanese and Germans during much of World War II? That was just 60 years ago, not centuries. Wasn't that a gross miscarriage of what we would consider justice today? I mean, I can see how some would look back fondly of the country from a white man's perspective, but really, it's better today then it has ever been.

[defendandprotect]

66. hmmm..... Japanese were put into internment camps -- Germans here were NOT -- !!

Presume you are inclined to believe the official myth of 9/11 --

but even if so, most still do not buy the need for attacking two nations --

Afghanistan and Iraq -- especially when the alleged "hijackers" were Saudis.


Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 -- but so far we've killed more than a million of them

and still occupy their country after ten years!


There is only one logical reason for these invasions and that's OIL and control of the ME.

The MIC uses 80% of our oil -- no oil/no war.


Had Bush/Cheney told us that the Russians had done 9/11, we'd still be ROFL --

[INdemo]

102. Soon after the troop "surge " in Iraq Major US oil companies

signed oil contract with Iraq as did BP. Soon after this happen all of a sudden Bush announced a troop withdrawal would begin.Nothing was mentioned on the MSM and here we are still there and why..Maybe they are looking for the 40billion that is unaccounted for..

[defendandprotect]

111. And weren't those oil field splits/assignments worked out long before by Cheney in WH meetings?

Think we had info on that -- ???

Usually someone more knowledgeable on the subject will come along and help us out --

but it's the way I remember it -- tho I didn't save the info!!



:hi:

[cottonseed]

163. I'm assuming your ok with interning Japs because of your era, but Germans were interned as well

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_American_internment

[blkmusclmachine]

63. Looks damn well like it. And the DEM's are MIA, as usual.

[defendandprotect]

112. If voters are still expecting Democratic Party ... .

which has been under the influence of Koch Bros/DLC for more than 20 years --

where it was harbored within the party -- influencing its agenda and its

candidates -- to end their SILENCE, then I think they are waiting in vain.


The Democratic Party which once defended women, people of color, unions -

labor -- has been dismantled by the Koch Bros as far as I can see --

but we had best find out if there is anything left but a rotting corpse!!


We need to know!!



:hi:

[H2O Man]

70. Recommended.

I have great respect for Jesse V.

[NNN0LHI]

74. When Bush was president Jesse had about as much credibility here as any other washed up pro-wrestler

What the fuck happened?

Don

[Kaleko]

100. Eyes were opened,

minds expanded to include more of the inconvenient facts

and people woke up.

[defendandprotect]

76. What was the McCarthy Era if not fascism .... !! HUAC was put together to investigate RW ....

ended up being a movement to purge government of liberals and progressives who

had reformed government for the better during the FDR years --


What was the coup on JFK and our people's government in '63 except fascism --

What was the "Gulf of Tonkin Resolution" and Vietnam War except fascism --

What was the first Gulf War about other than oil and fascism --

The entire history of this government is one of fascism and destruction of populations

to move nations and their wealth and natural resources into elite hands --

It got slowed down once or twice -- but it's raging along again now!!



What citizens who love the MIC and its weaponry and maybe even its torture need to think

about is that it's quite likely that power and weaponry will one day be used against them.



Also -- Note the comments from Prince Andrew about "The Great Game" -- which got him demoted

recently -- !!

[piratefish08]

81. and yet right here on DU is a post welcoming TSA assaults, since the Oslo

massacre proves ANYONE can be a terrorist. :wtf:


We're all being trained, one indignity at a time.


Some are succumbing and accepting their new reality a little easier than others, I guess.

[defendandprotect]

141. Agree -- a little bit at a time ... and FEAR, FEAR, FEAR --- doing it the Goebbels' way ... !!

[orbitalman]

82. K & R

[DeSwiss]

86. Exactly. - K&R n/t

[pam4water]

91. We're in bad shape when the x-wrestler realizes we are in fascism.

[JDPriestly]

94. I'm watching a baby who is just struggling to stand and walk.

The human urge to move autonomously -- without interference -- is a very strong drive.

All large mammals must have the ability to move freely in order to obtain food.

The TSA's existence reminds each of us that we do not have the right to move freely without government permission.

It is an attack on our basic human need for freedom and autonomy.

The remarkable thing is that when you pass through airport security, you are surrounded by uniformed authorities -- just to remind you how little freedom and autonomy you have.

What kinds of criteria need to be met before TSA is just shut down?

[INdemo]

101. A progressive could win the Presidency in 2012

[upi402]

106. Yes, more need to say it out loud too. n/t

[matt819]

108. He may be a little nutty

But he certainly would add to the mix if he were to primary Obama or run as an independent.

[Capitalocracy]

109. Jesse should consider the possibility that he was born in a fascist country.

Maybe things have looked better here, but we've been spreading fascism around the world for decades.

[man4allcats]

114. Re: "We're a fascist nation now."

Regrettably, I came to the same conclusion some time ago as have so many others.

[hootinholler]

118. And now they are in the subway... n/t

[canoeist52]

124. We need every voice we can get speaking the truth.for us.

It isn't about his personality, it's about what he's saying.

[defendandprotect]

125. kr

[Sparkly]

127. Does the name "Rip Van Winkle" ring a bell, Jesse?

"Security" trumped civil rights in 2001.

[democrank]

132. K & R

[sarcasmo]

135. Corporate Fascism be thy name.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

139. Yes, we have all the symptoms.

It is tough to be undiagnosed (professionally).

[paparush]

145. I traveled out of the country last week...

Departed from Charlotte, NC.
Pre-gate security motioned for me to go through the backscatter scanner. I optioned out for the pat down instead.
I hope it irritates the fuck out of the TSA that they have to come pat me down.

The guy who patted me down kept up a constant stream of chatter. At one point he said, "Sir, did you opt out of the scanner because of stories you'd read about radiation?" I did not respond. Several moments went by as he kept patting me down. "Sir, is that why you opted out?", he continued. I replied, "I opted out for several reasons."

I did it as a witness for my fellow travelers, for my fellow Americans. THIS..this is what we have become. A citizen all of my 44 years, with no criminal record, and this is how I'm treated by my govt.

[Phlem]

149. My man.

It is the time to say it, and it is the truth.

-p

[Eyerish]

151. K&R

[OwnedByFerrets]

155. TY Jesse

[Zambero]

161. Jesse's approach to just about everything

Not to dismiss or disagree with what he's saying here, but it seems that Mr. Ventura has a gift for all things negative. His approach to just about everything: Bitch, Bitch, Bitch and then Bitch some more. Again, he may be right much of the time, but does anyone recall anything positive every coming from this guy? He used to be associated more with right-wing negativity, and was noted for being "put upon" by whatever the left was doing. Witness the late Senator Paul Wellstone's funeral and tribute, in which Ventura ranted and railed about the event being nothing more than a left-wing "political rally". Not a very appropriate comment. This sentiment was quickly taken up by the MSM, then the Minnesota GOP proceeded to make it a major campaign issue, and shortly afterwards the Democrats lost the Senate seat in the special election. Jesse has every right to flap his gums as much as the rest of us do, but I'm tending to take his comments with a grain of salt these days.

[Zookeeper]

165. Bingo! This Minnesotan remembers and agrees. n/t

[fivepennies]

170. Bitch, bitch bitch and bitch some more -

That's funny in a sad sort of way being posted on a forum geared for bitching. How much positive stuff are you seeing and hearing going on in the world in general or on this forum?

Which TV show are you referring to? I'm sure he'd still be going strong on the airwaves if he had been saying what the mind manipulating bosses demand that their hosts say. He was shut out because he was exposing too much of what they don't want you to hear. And yes, he's pretty flamboyant no matter what he's doing. But MSNBC paid him for three years to keep him off the air.

And Senator Wellstone's funeral WAS turned into a fiasco.

I was there, too, and saw the headlines screaming and bitching every damn day about the governor's piss poor leadership, but if you bothered to read the articles or listen to the entire broadcast there were always a few grains of truth buried in the hype.

http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/200212/17_mccalluml_venturalegacy/
Ventura's finance commissioner, Pam Wheelock, says the governor did propose a fiscally responsible plan that would have minimized the current deficit, and lawmakers discarded it. She says Ventura didn't have a single ally in the Legislature for most of his term, yet he still managed to push through some of his major priorities.

"The good news is that it took both of these parties in both of these houses until the last legislative session to really effectively figure out how to box out the governor, because they had no interest in having an Independence Party governor look effective," Wheelock said.

~~~~

So yell and scream and bitch to your heart's content about how the dems did this and the pukes did that ... the fact is, boxing out the Independence party and Governor Ventura was purely bi=partisan and it was all that mattered to both sides and damn the consequences and the budget. That's why you have no real choices when you vote.


*edit to clarify