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Why Norway? Simple answer: asymmetric warfare

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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 04:16 PM
Original message
Why Norway? Simple answer: asymmetric warfare
Asymmetric warfare is war between belligerents whose relative military power differs significantly, or whose strategy or tactics differ significantly. We also know this tactic by the names "guerrilla warfare", "insurgency", "terrorism", "counterinsurgency", and "counterterrorism."

While a jihadi terror group, Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami, claimed responsibility for the attacks as a response to Norwegian forces’ presence in Afghanistan, some people including Glenn Greenwald are pointing to the war in Libya as being instructive as to why Norway became a target for guerrilla warfare today:


The NATO force of which Norway is a part has explicitly declared Libyan leader Moammar Gadaffi to be a "legitimate target" and has repeatedly attempted to kill him; one attempt on Gadaffi's life -- a bombing attack on his son's residence -- resulted in the death of the dictator's son and three grandchildren. In response, Gadaffi "vowed to attack 'homes, offices and families' in Europe in revenge for NATO airstrikes," adding that "your homes, your offices and your families, which will become military targets just as you have transformed our offices, headquarters, houses and children into what you regards as legitimate military targets." The semantic games of the Obama administration notwithstanding, that is not a "peaceful" situation; those are nations at war.


Traditionally, one of the more persuasive reasons to avoid war is that countries fear violent reprisals. I think the reason Gadaffi mentions Europe specifically is that tactically, asymmetric warfare in small, quiet European NATO countries will, for a while, have a greater impact (or element of surprise) than an attack on larger players such as the US. Also, these attacks on smaller European counties might actually change that country's direction with regard to whether they want to continue to support these wars. Whereas larger countries like the US are too invested, and the ship of state is too large to change course in the immediate future.

It's asymmetric warefare 101.

Continuing in the vein that reprisals targeting innocent civilians are historically a reason to avoid war, Greenwald points out that these attacks are "inherently unjustifiable" but they should not be surprising:

The point is that it's completely unsurprising that a nation at war -- whether Norway or the U.S. -- is going to be targeted with violent attacks. That's what "being at war" means, and it's usually what it provokes. And the way this fact is suppressed ("a coordinated assault on the ordinarily peaceful Scandinavian nation" = the post-9/11 why do they hate us?) highlights how we view violence as something only those Others commit, but not we.


The fact of global (in)security in the postmodern age is that exploded homes, mangled/starving children, innocent dead and assassinated leaders are realities in "other places," and these faraway realities are largely ignored here. They are not the reality of postmodern Western Europe, and certainly not in sleepy, socialist Oslo, Norway.

And this is precisely Why Norway was targeted.

More on the tactics of asymmetric warfare:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymmetric_warfare

Here's the NYTs coverage of the Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami, or the Helpers of the Global Jihad claim of responsibility.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/23/world/europe/23oslo.html?_r=2

A terror group, Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami, or the Helpers of the Global Jihad, issued a statement claiming responsibility for the attack, according to Will McCants, a terrorism analyst at C.N.A., a research institute that studies terrorism. The message said the attack was a response to Norwegian forces’ presence in Afghanistan and to unspecified insults to the Prophet Muhammad. “We have warned since the Stockholm raid of more operations,” the group said, according to Mr. McCants’ translation, apparently referring to a bombing in Sweden in December 2010. “What you see is only the beginning, and there is more to come.” The claim could not be confirmed. It is not uncommon for terrorist groups to advance claims of responsibility for high-profile attacks, only to have the claims prove to be spurious.

Norway is a member of the NATO alliance and has a small fighting contingent in Afghanistan. It was one of several countries named by Ayman al-Zawahri, the leader of Al Qaeda, as potential targets for attack. In 2006, Norwegian newspapers reprinted Danish cartoons that angered Muslims by lampooning Muhammad. Norway has also historically been a frequent participant in peacekeeping missions and a host for diplomatic talks, including the 1993 Oslo Accords between Israel and the Palestinians. The Nobel Peace Prize is awarded by a committee of the Norwegian Parliament.

Muslim leaders in Norway swiftly condemned the attacks. “This is our homeland, this is my homeland; I condemn these attacks and the Islamic Council of Norway condemns these attacks, whoever is behind them,” said Mehtab Afsar, secretary general of the Islamic Council of Norway.

Witnesses on the island told Norwegian television that the man identified himself as a police officer when he entered the camp. “He said it was a routine check in connection with the terror attack in Oslo,” one witness told VG Nett, the Web site of a national newspaper.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. they are reporting it's a norwegian who was the shooter...
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NightWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. we now go to correspondent Roseanne Roseannadanna live in Norway

Nevermind
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. ROFL
:thumbsup:
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Hassin Bin Sober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. Emily Litella
Edited on Fri Jul-22-11 05:12 PM by Hassin Bin Sober
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. This was in house.
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
3. The Norwegian police are holding a press conference in a few minutes.
Let's see what they say before we jump to conclusions.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
4. Claim from that source withdrawn:
5.14am Earlier reports across media that a group called 'Helpers of Islamic Jihad' had claimed responsibility for the attacks seem to be wrong.

Analyst Will McCants posted the original claim, made by Abu Sulayman al-Nasir on Arabic jihadi forum 'Shmukh'. He then issued an update, telling news.com.au the original claim was "not real".

Update: Abu Sulayman has now issued a retraction, stating clearly that “Helpers” was not involved in the operation and that his statement was not an official statement. He says those who carried out the attacks “must surely be known to all.”

http://www.news.com.au/world/twin-attacks-gunman-opens-fire-on-youth-camp-car-bomb-explodes-at-pms-office/story-e6frfkz9-1226100157179#ixzz1SrrJK0KC
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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
6. Aftenposten reports that the perp is Norwegian.
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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
7. Nope.avi
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hifiguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
8. Latest info from Norwegian sources
on another link is that the perp is Norwegian and may be linked to extreme right wing.

Best to wait before offering pat explanations.
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Apollo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
10. It looks like this could be a home-grown extreme-right lone-wolf attack
According to BBC:

Norway has been hit by twin attacks - a massive bomb blast in the capital and a shooting attack on young people at a governing Labour Party youth camp.

At least seven people were killed in the bombing, which inflicted huge damage on government buildings in Oslo.

At least 10 more died at the camp, on an island outside Oslo, police say. One witness said he had seen 20 bodies.

Police arrested the suspected gunman at the camp and the government have confirmed that he is Norwegian.

Norwegian media reports said the shootings on the island, on the Tyrifjorden lake, were carried out by a man in police uniform.

Police later said that he was also linked with the bomb attack. Reports described him as tall and blond.

The prime minister and justice minister have declined to speculate on a motive behind the attack but police are saying that they believe the car bomb and the shooting are linked and that they have a suspect in custody from Utoeya.

The ministers are confirming he is Norwegian. During the day, after an initial focus on an al-Qaeda link, the possibility of domestic extremism increasingly came into focus.

The choice of targets - government buildings and a political youth rally - suggested a possible political agenda rather than the mass casualty approach typically employed by al-Qaeda.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14256712

On BBC TV in the UK, Newsnight (started 10 minutes ago) is going with the home-grown theory.

The Mayor of Oslo says it was probably a "crazy man". Journalists are speculating as to whether the perp may have had any real-world or online links with anarchist or neo-Nazi groups.
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DFab420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
11. Sooo it's Obama's fault as well?
Edited on Fri Jul-22-11 05:07 PM by DFab420
Reading Greenwald's post sounds like he thought them damn Norwegians had it coming..

If only those vile and war hawkish Norwegians weren't part of NATO they would be safe from terrorist attack. The really brought this on themselves...SO SAYTEH THE GREAT GLENN..

If the US is at war with other countries, why wouldn't some other countries get attacked as well? Honestly Oslo, stop being in shock that bombs and children were just exploded and shot.
*****************

This is why I dislike Gleen Greenwald. There is a time and place to discuss this, and it isn't as they are still picking the pieces up in the afternoon after the morning attack.....

He sounds more and more like Pat Robinson. The sins of Norway are the reasons Norway was attacked!!

ech, leaves a bad taste in my mouth.


On edit:
I was paraphrasing and be a bit hyperbolic, as pointed out below..Sorry for being cranky. And thanks for keeping me honest :)
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. You obviously did not read his post. Nadine used him to make a point he was not making.
Edited on Fri Jul-22-11 05:05 PM by Luminous Animal
In the article, he is attacking the stupidity of corporate media.

"This has nothing to do with justification, as these kinds of civilian-targeting attacks are, as I said, inherently unjustifiable (though if NATO declares the leader of Libya a "legitimate military target" and air bombs his residence, what's the argument as to why the office of the Prime Minister whose country is at war with Libya is not a legitimate target?). The point is that it's completely unsurprising that a nation at war -- whether Norway or the U.S. -- is going to be targeted with violent attacks. That's what "being at war" means, and it's usually what it provokes. And the way this fact is suppressed ("a coordinated assault on the ordinarily peaceful Scandinavian nation" = the post-9/11 why do they hate us?) highlights how we view violence as something only those Others commit, but not we."


By the way, what's up with the fake quote?
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DFab420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I was trying to be hyperbolic cause I'm cranky.
I'll change it.
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. BTW, the only time Obama is mentioned in Greenwald's piece is from an exerpt from the Norway Post.
Edited on Fri Jul-22-11 05:13 PM by Luminous Animal
Greenwald, himself, says nothing about Obama.

What about his point that Norway IS violently and militarily involved in TWAT (the war on terror), and if your country is fighting a war, that country should expect to be attacked.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
12. Asymetric warfare yes. that is terrorism
but it is increasingly pointing to an internal attack.
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Apollo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
16. BBC is comparing this guy to Timothy McVeigh
Frank Gardner (BBC Security Correspondent) is talking on BBC World News TV, saying this looks like domestic terrorism.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
18. This man is a criminal, not a warrior. n /t
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