Here is why Obama is wrong to include Social Security and Medicare in the debt ceiling talks.

[county worker]

First, those programs are self funded by payroll deductions and only contribute to the debt problem if the money borrowed from those programs is not going to be paid back. That's why Gore talked about a locked box for them.

Second, cuts to those programs will be permanent. Even if they contributed to debt reduction in the short term, the next time the Repubs get the chance they will run the debt up again. That is Grover Norquist's plan for getting rid of social programs, saying they should be cut to bring down the debt. Including "entitlement" cuts in this current discussion plays right into that plan.

Third, cuts to those programs hurt people who count on them. There could be cuts to other things such as military spending or oil subsidies that have a much bigger effect on the debt.


Obama is said to be very intelligent so I think he can figure out what I have just said which leads me to question his motives.

[jtown1123]

1. Every credible economist (who is not a shill for Wall St.) says cutting these programs will be disas

disaster. The need NEVER goes away. What we have left will be homeless seniors, or people moving back in with their unemployed children. It's going to get ugly.

[Lorien]

4. SS payouts also go right back into circulation (through purchases) and thus

help keep the economy running. Tax breaks to the wealthy stagnates the economy because that money is taken out of circulation and just gets hoarded away.

[wtmusic]

2. Obama has been hanging around the Republican crowd too much.

Like most mere mortals, being in company with fools for extended periods of time tends to make a little rub off on you.

[chill_wind]

3. He is making it an arbitrary political choice of his own.

Even he has to admit it's real non-starter role in deficit economics.

THE PRESIDENT: With respect to Social Security, Social Security is not the source of our deficit problems. Social Security, if it is part of a package, would be an issue of how do we make sure Social Security extends its life and is strengthened? So the reason to do Social Security is to strengthen Social Security to make sure that those benefits are there for seniors in the out-years. And the reason to include that potentially in this package is if you’re going to take a bunch of tough votes, you might as well do it now, as opposed to trying to muster up the political will to get something done further down in the future.

http://m.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/07/11/press-conference-president

[Lorien]

5. Weasel words, once again. SS is fully funded through 2054-or was, until they

raided it to pay for several wars and tax breaks for billionaires.

[chill_wind]

6. And in this economy

it would be a completely arbitrary cruelty.

[truedelphi]

7. He used the same sort of gibberish-speak when he was queried

During the summer of 2009 by a college kid in Colorado about the public option with regards to Health care Reform.

First he said that he as President could not interfere with the process and contribute his ideas until Congress had fully outlined the plan they were using. (He quoted the three separate branches and separation of powers stuff. Never mind that Rahm, his right hand man, was making deals in the WH basement and down the street from the WH with the Big Insurance Executives and with Big Pharma.)

Then he went on to say, that "the public option would be a good fit for Health Care Reform, if we did not already have a system in place" and that we needed to honor what we already had up and running.

Which begs the question of why did we bother to do Health Care Reform if the system in place was so friggin' fabulous?

The only one in the media that bothered to parse this bunch of nonsense was Jon Stewart. But then, in authoritarian societies, only the court jester dares to tell the truth.

[TomCADem]

8. Actually Medicare Is Not Self-Funded, and Social Security Is...

...But it is going to be upside down in 2030 or so. It will still be able to pay benefits, but such benefits will need to be cut or the program will be running in a deficit or social security taxes will need to be raised.

As for his motives, I think he wants to make sure the programs are solvent, and he does not want Republicans to use the fact that they are bleeding red ink as a basis for wiping them out entirely through the Ryan voucher plan or the Bush Social security 401(k) plan.

As Boehenr himself said. This was not enough. He wanted to "fundamentally" change these programs (end them), but President Obama would not agree.