KRUGMAN: Obama/Conceder In Chief --- What evidence do we have that Obama knows what he’s doing?

[kpete]

July 22, 2011, 9:01 AM
Conceder In Chief

.................

I’d like to believe that it’s all 11-dimensional political chess; but at this point — after the midterm debacle, after the big concession on taxes without even getting a raise in the debt limit — what evidence do we have that Obama knows what he’s doing?

.................

1. Obama really just isn’t that into Democratic priorities. He really doesn’t much care about preserving Medicare for all seniors, keeping Social Security intact, and so on.

2. What he is into is his vision of himself as a figure who can transcend the partisan divide. He imagines that he can be the one who brings about a big transformation that settles disputes for decades to come — and has been unwilling to drop that vision no matter how many times the GOP shows itself utterly uninterested in anything except gaining the upper hand.

3. As a result, he can’t or won’t see what’s obvious to everyone else: that any Grand Bargain will last precisely as long as Democrats control the Senate and the White House, and will be torn up in favor of privatization and big tax cuts for the wealthy as soon as the GOP has the chance.

................

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/22/conceder-in-chief/

[Stuart G]

1. k & r

[KittyWampus]

2. dupe

[mmonk]

5. We are further right than when Obama took office with majorities

in both houses of Congress.

[StarsInHerHair]

99. just to your sig, She dwelt among the untrodden ways

"SHE DWELT AMONG THE UNTRODDEN WAYS"

SHE dwelt among the untrodden ways
Beside the springs of Dove,
A Maid whom there were none to praise
And very few to love:

A violet by a mossy stone
Half hidden from the eye!
--Fair as a star, when only one
Is shining in the sky.

She lived unknown, and few could know
When Lucy ceased to be;
But she is in her grave, and, oh,
The difference to me!

[Pholus]

6. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

When the "grand deal" comes out, we'll all find out whether it was 17-d chess or tic-tac-toe.

[bvar22]

42. If THIS guy were President, we would already KNOW what is in "The Deal".

Transparency
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5t8GdxFYBU

[Pholus]

55. Wow. That guy says all the right things. I would vote for him! Oh, wait.... :(

[Moostache]

76. The guy in that video made me believe in possibilities again.

The guy in the White House now makes me want to emigrate to a more progressive nation because this one is a shithouse and getting exponentially worse.

[Bluesbreaker]

102. One of many promises told during the campaign

that quickly turned to lies once elected. Public option anyone? How about closing Gitmo and reforming the Patriot Act? This list goes on and on.

[guruoo]

117. Transparency didn't include tipping his hand to the Republicans

On second thought, I guess he could just whisper it to us real softly, so they wouldn't hear.

[Pholus]

138. What was to whisper? He was ready to take the heat from us for the good of "the deal."

Nuttin in there I really wanted to hear and the rumors and gossip, just like with HCR and the tax extensions, were correct. Fortunately, the other side is even more illogical and it fell through.

And that's what it took to get him to talk angrily with them...

[guruoo]

141. The

other side plants the rumors and exaggerations, and alerts their disruptors
to fan the flames. It's that simple. They want to encourage Democratic voters
to stay home in '12.

[Pholus]

142. Well,

we won't have a problem as long as we don't actually give away the store, will we?

It's that simple.

[guruoo]

143. Won't matter.

Because their mission, as I described, will remain unchanged.
New day, Same song. Divide and conquer.

[Pholus]

144. matters to me.

'nuff said.

[guruoo]

145. As expected, our team rope-a-dope has now snatched SS and Medicare off the table...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1571557

[Pholus]

146. As expected? Where do I get a copy of YOUR secret decoder ring.

[guruoo]

148. I might consider letting you borrow it....

but only if you're reeel nice!

:hi:

[Pholus]

149. Thanks for the offer anyway.

I make pretty bold bets when I'm using the house's money as well.

[guruoo]

150. I've already lost one home

Foreclosed last September

[Pholus]

151. I am sorry to hear that. We might disagree on the particular path, but we do share the same goal.

Hopefully you still have or have found another!

[guruoo]

153. Very long story short, we never got rid of the house we had been living in when we

moved 200 mi away into the house that we eventually lost.

We were lucky that we decided to keep this house, as we may have ended up in the street otherwise,
since the whole mess ended up costing my wife and I both our retirements, and most of our savings.

[Pholus]

154. I'm glad it ended better than it could have! I guess that's why tempers are high, we all know the

stakes on this one.

Keep safe and have a long and happy life! :)

[guruoo]

155. Thanks, Pholus.

We'll be OK. I take the approach that I do because years ago, I once had the chance to work with them on a local issue
with which we had a common interest. While I was doing this, I obtained access to information that spelled out their end game
in detail.

We cannot allow them to regain the Presidency. There is no other option. Whatever it takes. Even if it means giving up
a few things along the way, even if is only to buy time, even if we have to become as bad as they are to stop them.
Right now, you may have problems with Obama, but my friend, as far as keeping the White House is concerned, Obama's all we've got.

[jtown1123]

He's not moving us left. Putting SS & Medicare on the table for cuts is not "left"

[KittyWampus]

3. Plenty of evidence Obama knows what's he's doing. He's moving us slowly Left in the face of

intransigence. And that includes the Health Care Reform bill that MOVED US FORWARD TOWARDS SINGLE PAYER.

Paul Krugman needs to step into the real world. Where Republicans refuse to cooperate and are actively trying to screw the county and Obama and Democrats.

Obama isn't into Democratic priorities? Maybe I should introduce Krugman to the long list of what Obama has accomplished but I"m sure it would be as fruitless as posting it here.

At this point, only idiots would fully believe the nonsense rumors flying around.

[mmonk]

8. See post #5

[JackDragna]

27. Has there ever been a major piece of economic policy..

..in U.S. history that was obtained by taking these "incremental" steps forward?

[KittyWampus]

33. Yes, implementing the Social Security program. Initially it didn't cover minorities initially.

[jtown1123]

38. Source? That doesn't sound right...

[JDPriestly]

81. Minorities? No. Initially it covered mostly industrial workers

[leeroysphitz]

40. What color is the sky in your world? n/t

[bvar22]

43. Mandates without a Public Option IS a Big Step....to The RIGHT!

Do you really think they are going to "Fix it Later"?

[EOTE]

49. Only, a republican would have never been able to get away with it.

I can imagine insurance CEOs in a darkly lit room conspiring on how to fuck us over as much as possible:

CEO #1) What if we could force the entire U.S. to purchase health care, but make it so that only the wealthy could actually afford to use it?

CEO #2) Why, there's no way that would go over with the American public. Would it?

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jakes Progress]

95. Facts? We don't need no stupid facts. We got faith.

[Cherchez la Femme]

56. At this point,

only idiots would consistently denigrate the evidence, put time and again directly in front of their lying eyes.


At only this point, 'Ockham's Razor' could be decried as a conspiracy theory!


"He's moving us slowly Left..."

REALLY??


:banghead:

[rury]

74. K&R KittyWampus!!!!

[JDPriestly]

80. Wishful thinking, KittyWampus.

I did that during the Clinton era. I indulged in a lot of wishful thinking about what was going on.

When Bush came in and when the economy crashed in 2008, I realized how wrong I had been.

You, too, will have a wake-up call one of these days.

It really makes you cynical. Sorry, but we all have to grow up sooner or later.

[tblue]

92. Oh yeah. He signed Lily Ledbetter.

Everything on that tired and overused list of his "accomplishments" comes with a big fat asterisk. Pick anything and i'll show you Half the list should be credited to Nancy Pelosi anyway. And Obama continuing the use of extraordinary rendition and giving a pass to the crimes of the last administration trump any of his half measures. One eighth of a step forward and 3 steps backward. Who could vote for that more than once?

[Jakes Progress]

94. You've got your left and right confused.

At this point only idiots would fully ignore the facts around them. I mean, the president just said he tried to cut SS and Medicare. He just said it on national television.

How is that moving left?

[obxhead]

108. Bet she wonders why her feet hurt

when she puts on her shoes. :rofl:

[Enthusiast]

115. Now that's funny.

:spank: :rofl:

[Bluesbreaker]

103. Health Care Reform?

You mean the Affordable Care Act that gave insurance companies millions of new customers, without giving consumers another option, besides being fined? The Act that made it illegal for the federal government to negotiate prices with the drug companies to save billions of dollars for the VA, the armed services, Medicare and Medicaid? You mean the template for all of Obama's legislation that provides a token benefit to the middle class and the poor, while heaping billions of profits on corporations? That Health Care "Reform" bill?

Someone needs to step into the real world, but it's not Paul Krugman. It's not just health care. It's civil liberties, rewarding Wall Street with cabinet appointments, instead of throwing fraud perpetrators in jail, demonizing teachers and turning the public schools over to corporations and the billionaire boys club (Bill Gates et al.) The list goes on. Let's just say the only idiots here are those who refuse to acknowledge the reality that Obama lied about a lot of things and everyday, we discover more duplicity.

[rep the dems]

105. You are my hero.

I'm so tired of all this whining about how badly Obama has screwed us all from people who want to ignore his legitimate accomplishments as President and focus on how he's ruining social security and medicare except for the fact that, ya know, he hasn't done that. Cynicism seems to be contagious around here. Glad you haven't caught the plague either :hi:

[Enthusiast]

116. Better think up a new Democratic candidate

for President in 2012.

[rep the dems]

139. Exactly what I'm talking about.

And who do you propose?

[obxhead]

107. LOL

HCR in no way moved us closer to single payer. It did the exact opposite. It locked the for profit insurance industry into place. The entire HCR package will have to be ripped apart to even mention single payer.

[defendandprotect]

109. Obama is moving to the RIGHT by offering Social Security/Medicare cuts ... unless up is down -- !

[CTyankee]

127. Kitty, I'd like to agree with you, but sad to say, Krugman is consistently

right in his assessment...I read him avidly and have seen things unfold in the way he predicted.

However, I will re-think this assessment as being more about politics than economics...I am willing to have an open mind here...

[Tatiana]

130. My health care premium was increased by over $700 per month!

You call that moving forward?????

They ought to drop "Affordable" from the Affordable Care Act. There are no price controls and basically the private insurers have the right to charge you whatever the hell they want to.

This President has been a disaster for the poor, working, and middle class.

[WI_DEM]

4. Obama means well, but he needs to start leading and learning from lessons

already taught to him--the GOP isn't interested in doing anything that might make him look good. All they want to do is destroy his presidency, and they have been doing a pretty good job of it for the last two and half years because no matter how many times they kick him he comes back and says, in effect, do it again.

[KittyWampus]

7. He knows what the GOP will or won't do. His strategy has worked pretty damned well.

[jtown1123]

9. What strategy? Giving the GOP the farm? All he has to do is not budge then offer a clean bill

The public will forever remember him as the Democratic President that wanted to Cut SS and Medicare.

[SusanaMontana41]

90. Exactly. Thanks for that timely reminder.

Just because the baggers are selling "crisis" doesn't mean Obama has to buy.

Because he bought this time, they'll sell it again. Expect more hostage taking soon, in a Congress near you ...

[WI_DEM]

11. We will see. If he ultimately accepts a plan with huge budget cuts in programs

like Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid with minimal tax revenues then he will have failed--if he doesn't then you'll be right.

[KittyWampus]

32. Exactly. And I"ll admit to being wrong.

[jtown1123]

34. Did you read his USA Today OpEd? He says he needs to make cuts b/c our we have so much debt

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/2011-07-21-obama-debt-ceiling-debate_n.htm

This is wrong on so many levels...first of all, debt is from Bush Tax Cuts, high healthcare inflation and guess what, the recession! Slashing programs that help people through difficult economic times is bad policy and bad politics. He is clueless.

[KittyWampus]

39. Yes, I read the ENTIRE OpEd. Too bad you didn't.

[jtown1123]

53. No I read it all. I don't see what's so great about it.

[Jakes Progress]

96. Is it fact enough for you when Obama says it on national television?

He just said he was seeking cuts in SS and Medicare. Let's hear your admission or error. Or can you spin Obama's actual words. This will be interesting.

[Jakes Progress]

136. We're waiting.

I haven't seen your admission yet. Or are you just trying to find the right words? I'll stand by.

[Name removed]

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[kenny blankenship]

28. No he doesn't mean well. Sorry.

His priorities do not match those of the party he infiltrated.

Saying "Oh, but he means well" is a defense mechanism shielding you from the awful ugly nasty reality of Barack Obama. Some people still engage in rationalizations for his bizarre behavior. But no man who "means well" tries persistently to cut Social Security and Medicare with the aid of the Republicans. No man who runs as a Democrat has any business continuing Bush's "stupid" and heinously expensive wars, extending Bush's ruinous tax cuts, and then trying to cut Democratic social programs -the lasting achievements of the Party's past century of existence- to the tune of TRILLIONS to make the budget deficit smaller. US Corporations are booking record profits (did you know that?), and they are sitting on trillions of cash which they refuse to deploy in business expansion. Rich people are richer than before the Crash, and wealth inequality was already at an historical high. But for ordinary people -those that have jobs- wages are slipping. You do NOT balance the budget on the backs of the poor while the rich are helping themselves to ever greater share of the national wealth. The man who does this is NO DEMOCRAT, and he damn sure doesn't "mean well".

Also, this struggle is about something a lot more important than his stupid fucking failed Presidency and his bizarre need for approval from Republicans.

[louslobbs]

66. Kenny, you saved me a lot of typing. Your post is dead on accurate. Thank you sir.

Lou

[Myrina]

73. Best.Post.Of the day.

:applause:

[Jakes Progress]

97. There is a thread that historically explains where Obama is coming from.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1540315

It was all there before he began using campaign rhetoric and appealing to the base. The basis of his actions are explained by the things he did when he wasn't running for office.

We all owe MadFloridian a debt for this OP.

[Enthusiast]

119. How can anyone still defend him in light of that?

Eliminating those nasty old entitlement programs has been his goal all along.

[Jakes Progress]

128. Many here agree with that movement.

It is a stealth movement taking over the Democratic Party. It is much like what the wacko right did to the once staid but semi-sane republican party. Many here have shown the similar goals and policies between the New Democrats and the old republicans. Eisenhower and Nixon would feel right at home with the Democratic leadership.

Some of us have been at this long enough to have actually had those political arguments with the long gone republican party. It galls me to find my party arguing for the very things my party fought forty years ago. It's true that the New Democrats are left of the current wing-nut republicans, but only in the same way that a Big Mac is healthy when compared to actual and burger made of actual shit.

There is no party of the people any more. It's about whether to give all the money to the richest 1% right now or next week.

[defendandprotect]

110. +1 -- huge questions about Obama ...

and what may be left of the Dem Party after 20 years of Koch Bros/DLC

infiltration of the party -- influencing its agenda, its selection of candidates --

even its presidential candidates!!

[libmom74]

113. +1000

[woo me with science]

124. You nailed it. nt

[spooked911]

125. ding ding ding-- we have a winner

you nailed it, thank you

[KoKo]

132. "....the party he infiltrated.."

That's an excellent insight. :kick:

[bluethruandthru]

91. I used to think that...but now I honestly believe that Obama doesn't mean well.

I don't even think of him as a democrat anymore. What a gigantic disappointment he's been. I'm wishing now I would have supported Hillary.

[Enthusiast]

118. I wanted to believe he meant well

for the longest time.

When he extended the Bush tax cuts and cut FICA contributions he put social security at risk. I can't bring myself to believe that was well meaning.

[kick-ass-bob]

10. No one remembers the Presidents who "bridged the divide"

They remember the ones who made bold steps in the face of their adversaries.

[ProSense]

12. "I hope I’m wrong about all this.

But when has Obama given progressives any reason to believe they can trust him?"

Krugman: "Guys, this is a major program to aid lower- and lower-middle-income families. How is that not a big progressive victory?"

"3. As a result, he can’t or won’t see what’s obvious to everyone else: that any Grand Bargain will last precisely as long as Democrats control the Senate and the White House, and will be torn up in favor of privatization and big tax cuts for the wealthy as soon as the GOP has the chance."

When is this ever not the case?

The President has an op-ed in USA Today.

[Divernan]

17. Precisely because it IS the case, you NEVER trade present cuts for future taxes.

That's what the Brits would call the nil value for your money

[Enthusiast]

120. Exactly..............nt

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

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[Jackpine Radical]

13. Ya know, it was obvious to me that this was gonna be how it played out

after the trade of Bush tax cut extensions for Unemployment extensions. Who couldn't see that the next round of blackmail would be over the debt ceiling, and the price would be the remainder of the New Deal?

[Pholus]

14. +1 to that. And it's the same game plan from the establishment -- OMG HOSTAGES!!1!!11

[WI_DEM]

15. Obama's problem is that he threatens but ultimately doesn't stand up to the GOP

the only way to handle a bully is to stand up to them.

[Jackpine Radical]

20. Ya know, after we get done taking back Wisconsin,

we're gonna have to send some of our politicians to take over Washington.

My fantasy ticket for 2016 is Feingold & Franken--2 midwestern Jews with absolutely clear vision, progressive values, and a proven resistance to the Corporate disease.

(Not that I could ever imagine my fantasy coming true, of course)

[Enthusiast]

121. I could care less what their religion is

but I'm with you.

[Jackpine Radical]

137. Nor do I care about their religion.

I didn't even think about it until I started thinking how improbable it would be to elect someone from WI on the same ticket with someone from MN, and then this further point struck me.

[bvar22]

44. I've never really seen him "threaten" the GOP.

He has ALWAYS started compromising from The Middle,
and moved steadily to the Right,
even when he didn't have to.

[Marr]

31. Yep, Obama likes to give away the store in exchange for a *temporary*

extension of the basic functions of government. It's like trading ten dollars for a promise from the other guy that he won't punch you in the mouth. Only a moron or a true sycophant could look at these "deals" and think they're the product of genuine negotiation.

[Raksha]

41. Yeah, that's what I think too. Especially that "payroll tax holiday"

on FICA taxes. A lot of us were very nervous about tying FICA to general revenues in any way whatsoever. And that was Obama's idea. It was all laying the groundwork for what's happening now.

[democracy1st]

16. BS! Obama is a corporatist, I don't have to place nice with words.

[Fuddnik]

37. Gephardt had two words for it.

[Ganja Ninja]

21. I've always thought Obama was more concerned with his image than anything else. n/t

[hfojvt]

23. point 3 does not make any sense

It ignores that the "grand bargain" being proposed by the gang of six and embraced by Obama already creates big tax cuts for the wealthy. Did Krugman miss the part where they talk about reducing the top tax rate, maybe to 23%???

[Overseas]

24. K&R. That's how I feel today.

I keep waiting for the chess game to flip and Democratic priorities to be defended once and for all.

To finally feel relief from this depressing compromising with the cruel GOP that hates us all.

[Yavin4]

25. Point 3 is the Most Important Point

Any debt deal is not going to last. Just like the last surplus, it will be ripped apart once a Republican wins the presidency again.

[FBaggins]

26. He never had the experience needed for the job.

We knew it when we picked him. Two years in the Senate after a short few years in a state legislature does not a presidential resume make (though it's likely to get Rubio a VP bid)

I remember him at the convention in 2004. I remember thinking that this guy would make a great senator and after a couple terms of that he would be governor for a couple terms and then there would be nothing to stop him becoming President of the United States. But somehow we skipped the necessary seasoning period and we're paying a price for it. If things don't improve quickly were going to pay a very big price for it next year.

It's like the high-A prospect spending a few weeks at the AAA level and then getting called up to the majors in October and then winning a spot in the rotation to start the next season. We should never have decided to make him the key man in the rotation this early in his career. The kid has all the ingredients for success but we may have ruined him by promoting him too quickly without the opportunity to gain the necessary experience.

I hope I'm wrong.

[Tesha]

29. You're not wrong.

Mr. Tesha and I had exactly the same feelings when we heard that
2004 DNC speech; "*SOMEDAY*, that guy will be President!"

And then he turned up as our nominee four years later, fired up plenty
but manifestly unready to go. We voted for him, of course, if only because
of the historic import of electing him, but we knew the minute he started
making Cabinet picks (and naming inauguration speakers) that things
were not going to go well.

Tesha

[ProSense]

30. Hey

everyone has an opinion:

Whether you agree or disagree with what Democrats have done in the first two years of President Obama‘s presidency, they have freaking done it.

link

[bvar22]

45. Anybody who makes it to the Top of the Pile in Chicago,

has ALL the "experience" necessary.
You can't Make to to the TOP in Chicago if you are:

*Naive

*Can't play hardball

*Don't know how things work

Obama KNOWS.

Razzle Dazzle
From the soundtrack “Chicago”

“Give 'em the old razzle dazzle
Razzle Dazzle 'em
Give 'em an act with lots of flash in it
And the reaction will be passionate
Give 'em the old hocus pocus
Bead and feather 'em
How can they see with sequins in their eyes?
What if your hinges all are rusting?
What if, in fact, you're just disgusting?
Razzle dazzle 'em
And they;ll never catch wise!


Give 'em the old Razzle Dazzle
Razzle dazzle 'em
Give 'em a show that's so splendiferous
Row after row will crow vociferous
Give 'em the old flim flam flummox
Fool and fracture 'em
How can they hear the truth above the roar?
Throw 'em a fake and a finagle
They'll never know you're just a bagel,
Razzle dazzle 'em
And they'll beg you for more!


Give 'em the old double whammy
Daze and dizzy 'em
Back since the days of old Methuselah
Everyone loves the big bambooz-a-ler
Give 'em the old three ring circus
Stun and stagger 'em
When you're in trouble, go into your dance
Though you are stiffer than a girder
They'll let you get away with murder
Razzle dazzle 'em
And you've got a romance


Give 'em the old Razzle Dazzle
Razzle dazzle 'em
Show 'em the first rate sorceror you are”
Long as you keep 'em way off balance
How can they spot you've got no talent
Razzle Dazzle 'em
And they'll make you a star!

[KoKo]

133. +!!!

[Cherchez la Femme]

57. In the last presidential primaries I watched

many hounded or booted out of this place for saying the exact same thing.
They were called, which was allowed to stand, "PUMAS" and "racists"

I haven't noted any tombstones lately, but the accusations are still being made and are still allowed to stand.


Be careful...

[FBaggins]

64. I voted for the guy.

And will again if he's our candidate.

But I can't change reality. A lot of democrats are seriously dissappointed.

[Cherchez la Femme]

70. Yes? And?

So did I.

I did not get into the Obama/Clinton wars here -- an exercise in futility, especially considering both candidates platforms were virtually identical.
Some have still not let that go, which is the jist of my post;
so I'm wondering why you responded as you did...

[Faryn Balyncd]

35. In other words, a presidential delusion is paradoxically effectively dismantling the Social Compact

[defendandprotect]

111. +1000% ---

could be delusion --

could be corporate money/rewards --

[WinkyDink]

36. BINGO! "What he is into is his vision of himself...."

[whatchamacallit]

46. KRUGMAN NAILS IT! n/t K&R

[Maven]

47. K/R times 1000 (if I could)

[Maven]

48. "What he is into is HIS VISION OF HIMSELF"

Precisely!

[Hawkowl]

58. Nails it!

This is the most brilliant succinct summation I have ever seen of Obama. I wish I could have put this feeling into those words years ago!

[emilyg]

62. Bingo.

[Ruby the Liberal]

51. His vision of being transformative was told us by him in January of 2008

His reality is that he will be a one termer whose legacy will be that of Hoover.

[MisterP]

52. it's almost like a man elected by chanting, ecstatic, weeping masses who screamed themselves horse

and whose (dwindling) followers say he should be praised for doing the opposite of what he actually IS doing, and that he can do no wrong, and that literally NOTHING he could do would make them vote against him,

can feel like he can do anything without consequence...

[seafan]

54. 'I am among those in a state of suppressed rage and panic over the president’s negotiating strategy'

Paul Krugman isn't the only one.


The insanity swirling around all of this is entirely manufactured.


Call the GOP's bluff. If the GOP-controlled House votes on August 2 to reject raising the debt ceiling, the president must invoke the 14th Amendment to raise the debt ceiling, and let the courts have at that decision.



Someone is going over the cliff on August 2. It will either be this deeply traitorous GOP, or it will be the country.

[cottonseed]

59. Poor Kruggy. Looks like his little 200 word essay is destined for the trash bin.

[girl gone mad]

60. People won't forget how desperate this President was..

to force us to sacrifice so unnecessarily.

[cottonseed]

61. Right. Your guy Boehner saved us all from Obama the terrible.

[Ikonoklast]

63. LOL.

You are consistently wrong on almost everything you post about Mr. Obama.

[girl gone mad]

78. How are those green shoots coming along?

Recovery summer?

Did Greece just default or was that a dream?

Did we get a public option?

How is Too Big To Fail working out? Bank of America's balance sheet looks awesome now, right?

HAMP was a shining success story?

Housing is recovering and Americans are getting back to work?

Consistently wrong on almost everything...

[Ikonoklast]

65. It's where he pulled it from to begin with.

[DeSwiss]

67. K&R n/t

[pam4water]

68. K&R

[pam4water]

69. K&R

[William769]

71. k&r

[Myrina]

72. Unfortunately, he knows EXACTLY what he's doing ...

... all this 11th hour drama bullshit is just theatre so they can go into a "last ditch discussion" tomorrow and miraculously forge a deal, which, to POTUS's feigned heart-wrenching chagrin will include gutting what's left of the social safety net. And he'll say, in his press conference, haltingly and biting his lip (which he learned so well from Big Dawg) that it was a "hard choice" but he had to "put the future of the country first" and that he "knows" that "those having to sacrifice will understand".

:puke: So Goddamned predictable. And disgusting. I really hope Bernie Sanders primaries him.

[Enthusiast]

122. It is theater!

It is carried off very well. And of course the media is complicit as usual.

[rury]

75. Unrecced for Krugman's myopia and

racially-coded questioning of President Obama's competence.

[Jim_Shorts]

77. Krugman is pretty close if not right on

Obama just sees himself as a conciliator and has no real firm convictions.

For the 3 dimensional vulcan chess argument, Obama just said at his press briefing that he was offering 650 billion in additional cuts to entitlement programs so I hope the obamabots will finally except that Barack will sell us out on core democratic principles.

I too hope that Bernie Sanders will approach someone to primary Obama, if for no other reason than to push him back left.

[ClarkUSA]

79. Boehner: "The Pres. is adamant that we cannot make fundamental changes to our entitlement programs."

Both you and Krugman are wrong.

[Jim_Shorts]

82. Your going to listen to Bonner ?

MSNBC http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43851666/ns/politics-capitol_hill/

From the transcript : essentially what was offered to speaker boehner was over a billion cuts in discretionary spending both domestic and defense. we then offered additional $650 billion in cuts to entitlement programs . medicare, medicaid, social security .

[ClarkUSA]

83. Obama's statements were entirely consistent with Boehner's.

Did you bother to listen to their press conferences? :eyes:


I am unlike some people, who'll only believe President Obama when it suits their mode of attack.

[Jim_Shorts]

84. So 650 billion in cuts = no fundamental changes ...oooook

And denial is just a river in Egypt.

[ClarkUSA]

85. So what? The numbers were part of Pres. Obama's bluff and Boehner folded.

Did you watch the press conference? Obama said Boehner walked because of entitlements and revenue increase. Obama's statements were entirely consistent with Boehner's in this regard. Boehner wanted Ryan's plan on steroids and refused to close corporate tax loopholes.

That's what Boenher said. That's what Obama said.

So forget the "fucking liar" angle; it just makes you look foolish.

[Jim_Shorts]

87. Who said anything about "fucking liar"

I was just hoping to point you in the right direction but i can see thats impossible if your not willing to listen to reason. Have fun on your chosen path.

[PATRICK]

89. It is impossible to get into

these discussions without getting into trouble. So I will venture to make a point and then, for all intents and purposes shut. Krugman is guessing. Obama defenders are defending. On the one hand Obama's own statements concerning Reagan are too gratuitous and sincere not to be disturbing, even head slapping, on many indefensible levels. His lean toward Third Way co-opted nonsense is somewhat balanced by his distancing of himself from identifying with that org in the past.

In each and every instance(maybe this is too absolute a statement) we have implied multi-level strategy in Dem surrenders and gaffe, we, as progressives, have been flat out self-deceived. Unfortunately the flat appearance, glass jaw forward, foot ready to go back or into mouth is just what it appears. The only irritating thing is how the MSM loves to colorize the failures(accent fictitious leaks) as other things like fear when the answers are woefully simpler than even that. When other critics make more intelligent guesses, whatever the bias, it also is irritating.

Obama has proven no more a disappointment than the rest of the party leadership. Even more irritating is that no one has even come close to imagining how a confrontational, REAL reform package would fare in the midst of a world economic crisis, a corporate propaganda network supplanting any presentation to the voters(even if the said voters polled are VERY clear on most of that unproposed package), and a wild misrepesentation of both people and nation in Congress.

I think the semi-comfort that the residual Third Way incrementalist Democrat aka Reagan rape of the commons with sops and mucho lies is at the best step in the right direction needs a rereading of Voltaire's "Candide". The murderous slop we are supposed to accept is progress and the best of all possible legislation/leadership is a waste of time to argue about. Our joke is we have residual democracy to keep us gnawing at the bones.

The simple thing, simpler than Krugman, is that Obama and Third Way unfortunates believe in patent falsehoods that lead to political failure and system meltdown.

Application of arrogance or irritation(few people change in power, power affirms one's flaws) is more likely than flexibility or change. Why this confusing is because Obama is ultra flexible with the intransigent GOP and intransigent with progressiveness of any sort. This Reagan Variation is predictably and in practice totally dysfunctional even when it appears to "work" in damaged goods legislation. The worst effect is in crippling economic recovery from lessons NOT learned from FDR and the Great Depression. All Obama knows is the glory of the Reagan era, not even the brief span of JFK or the guns and butter lessons of LBJ, or semi-astute principles of Carter. He also likes and agrees with the money monsters in his cabinet. He is not afraid at all, especially not in dealing death or removing rights as modeled by his sacred predecessors. The kingly, imperial presidency strides on come what may and that in particular is every president's intensive flaw.

[Jakes Progress]

98. For a real insight into Obama's true motivation see this thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1540315

What he did before he was running explains a lot. He really buys this stuff. He is the first post-Democratic Party Democratic president.

[Jim_Shorts]

106. Interesting post patrick

Had to read that a couple of times. lol I am tempted to critique it but I think I'll just go with .. I agree with you. :)

[Enthusiast]

123. Nice........nt

[thucythucy]

100. How do you know it isn't Boehner bluffing now?

and that Obama won't be the one to fold tomorrow, next week, or the week after?

The "game" (in which the stakes are the economic well-being and health of millions of elderly, poor, and disabled Americans) isn't over, not by a long shot, so I wouldn't be popping any champaigne corks just yet.

Maybe Boehner pulled out as his own bluff--as in "I'll crash the entire economy if you don't give us everything we want." It worked in 2008, when the financial crises drained billions from the federal coffers and stuffed it into the pockets of the banksters. Refresh my memory, but didn't Obama cave on that one as well?

Amd so maybe, three or six days from now, Obama will "reluctantly" agree to a trillion dollars in cuts to Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, plus gutting a dozen other vital parts of the social safety net, all in exchange for a "firm commitment" on the part of the GOP to someday possibily actually consider maybe negotiating an increase in some form of taxes, but certainly not before the end of the recession, the end of the current term, or the next time the debt ceiling has to be raised, at which point tax increases will again "be off the table" while deeper cuts in the social safety net will be all the rage.

This ain't over till it's over, and given the Obama capitulations on the public option, extending the Bush tax cuts, Gitmo, the Warren nomination, climate legislation, etc. etc. etc., I wouldn't be too sanguine on this all working out for the best (unless, of course, you're the CEO of a major multi-national corporation).

Only time will tell, but past performance by this president leaves me with a very sick feeling at the pit of my political stomach.

I hope I'm wrong. To a great extent, my life and the lives of those I love depend on my being wrong. But thus far, my life, and the lives of my loved ones, don't seem to count as much more than poker chips in a game to which I'm not even invited to see, much less sit, at the table.

[wakemewhenitsover]

86. Bingo, as usual with Krugman. n/t

[Samantha]

88. It seems obvious Boehner staged this act of the ongoing political theater

"I will call you back at 5:30." Sure, wait until after the stock market closes and most people are getting off from work (if they haven't left early since it is Friday and pretty hot in many places.)

Everyone knew President Obama would make a pitch to the American citizens at the UMD this morning, and commentators even remarked yesterday there was nothing the Republicans could do by stand by helplessly and watch. I think they thought of something to do.

It is really a shame that things have gotten so ruthless (and that word is an understatement) that so many people of a political mindset would constantly brainstorm on ways to make President Obama an ineffective President, hamper the growth of jobs and the recovery to lessen President Obama's reelection chances, and impede his chances to actually campaign next years by asking him to go through this debacle once again several times over during election season.

To say they have no shame is just too lame. But I have no words to describe the depths I have observed these people sinking to, and somehow, someway it should be considered a violation of our laws, a failure to observe their oath of office swearing to preserve and protect the Constitution, and immediate accountability sought.

I don't think they will actually take the economy down, because one things Republicans know is this: they can't take us down without going down with us. That they will not do. It is all about self-preservation for them.

Sam

[Swede Atlanta]

93. Agree with compromise but............

He needs to align with the Democrats in the House and Senate. He seems to be acting like a solo rider in this rodeo which is not true. I oppose his suggestions that we, the people, are willing to compromise on yet unknown changes to Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and the Health Reform bill passed last year. Maybe the politics of Chicago with smoke filled rooms is his pedigree but I demand more transparency unless he wants to risk us walking awe from both the contribution coffers and the ballot box next year.

[russspeakeasy]

101. I would like to see a youtube video showing me Mr. Obamas

chess prodigy...:bounce:

[webDude]

104. Er,...he's being the stooge he is handsomely paid to be? Being a ...

...treasonous bastard(apologies to Bastards, everywhere).

I voted and campaigned and believed, mostly for naught?

[Sherman A1]

112. Precisely

Krugman hits it out of the park again!

What Democrat would even offer cuts in SS & Medicare?

[Enthusiast]

114. I think that is a generous assessment of Obama.

The truth might conceivably be much worse. I can't imagine that Obama envisions himself as some historical grand uniter. I just do not see it.

I am puzzled that Obama's ideology isn't quite apparent to anyone. I do not see this as a good thing.

[spooked911]

126. now Krugman says Obama has "backbone"

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/22/backbone/

[kstewart33]

134. Krugman's a bit of blowing with the wind.

Now that Obama's ticked off and taking a hard stand, he's suddenly da Man, right.

Make up your mind, Krug.

[spooked911]

140. yeah, though today he's back being anti-Obama

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1557003

[Name removed]

129. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[theFrankFactor]

131. We just need to push Obama Left... LOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Yeah, I mean there's just sooooo much pressure from the Left already. And we KNOW how well the Obama Administration LOVES the Progressive/Left! LOL!!!!

[sulphurdunn]

135. Banks have to accept

government checks. That's the law. Come 8/2 Obama can tell the Treasury to keep paying the nations bills and to keep selling securities. He doesn't need permission from the Republicans to do that. It's his trump card. In predictable Obama fashion he's told the Repugs he's holding it but won't play it.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

147. The same Krugman who said Obama never had a tough election?

:rofl:

[mfcorey1]

152. Later for this hogwash!