Joint Chiefs say :Defense Budget cuts could force a return to the draft

[Ichingcarpenter]

The Pentagon is considering massive changes to the force — including a draft — amid fears that new and far deeper budget cuts are looming just over the horizon, a top military official said Thursday.

Marine Gen. James “Hoss” Cartwright, vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs, offered a timeline for how deep cuts will affect the force during the next decade, including big reductions in operational budgets, slashing the size of the active-duty force and even scaling back entitlements such as retirement and health care, according to the Military Times newspapers.

http://www.stripes.com/news/cartwright-budget-cuts-could-force-a-return-to-the-draft-1.149228


Sounds like a scary threat.... give us money or we will draft



BTW ..... WHERE IS UNHAPPYCAMPER? I miss his posts.

[Selatius]

1. I'm willing to speculate that they're bluffing. On the other hand, a military draft would wake us up

Most current leaders inside the military have said time and time again that a citizen army is not preferable to an all-volunteer army. The argument is that an all-volunteer army is simply made up of people who willingly accepted the risks of signing on the dotted line. An army built on a draft invariably involves the question of whether the soldiers in question even want to fight the war, for various reasons. The Founders of the Republic wanted the US to have a citizen army because they knew such an army is less willing to go along with the leadership on foreign adventures. The erosion of unit cohesion, high desertion rates, and the fragging of officers was a common problem during the Viet Nam War, and it was largely the result of fighting a war that the people (the soldiers) did not want or could not really understand or come to a consensus on. It's far easier to justify a fight defending one's borders and coastlines to an army made up of draftees as opposed to going 10,000 miles away to fight some enemy that probably has not seen America's shores, and the Founders knew that, on top of knowing that a long-standing, professional army can easily be used to strip away the rights of its own citizenry as well as dominate many foreign lands.

The corollary argument is that a military draft would awaken a long-dormant strain of student activism that hasn't existed since the 1970s. If you're the one that is going to die on a battlefield, it may make it very important for you to become politically aware of what happens in D.C.

[quaker bill]

11. If you reduce the size of the standing force enough

then a draft might be needed to go on military adventures. The easier and better answer is just not going on such adventures. I think the military should be small enough that such adventures would require both a draft and a substantial tax increase, this would make the whole notion much less popular.

[Scuba]

2. I call bullshit, but am in favor of bringing back the draft....

....the draft would bring an end to these corrupt wars in about 10 seconds.

[Obamanaut]

4. Yes, what you said. Reducing the overall size of the military could be a very

good thing.

It might make it necessary to close some (or all) of the hundreds of military sites of varying size throughout the world - and just that would save a butt-load of money.

[Selatius]

8. There are over 700 American military bases scattered across the world.

It is a huge military footprint, one that allows the wealthiest in America to exert their influence in countries far from home.

[Ichingcarpenter]

6. Almost anyone from the Vietnam era knows

a draft would have ended the wars america is fighting now..

I think the Joint Chiefs are playing a dangerous political game
this time and I expect to see more to come as their budget
is finally brought back to reality.

[ThomWV]

13. +1 - yep, just about every Viet Nam vet understands that clearly.

[awoke_in_2003]

51. agreed...

re-instate the draft, this endless war is getting tiresome.

[Selatius]

9. Only if there are no deferments or loopholes that the rich can exploit.

Dick Cheney managed to get six draft deferments to avoid combat in Viet Nam, for instance. Otherwise, the wealthiest arms dealers and contractors will continue to lobby politicians to adopt a militaristic foreign policy for monetary gain and not have to worry about their own sons and daughters getting sucked into the machinery of war. I'm assuming they are not sociopaths and actually care about the livelihoods of their own children.

[ThomWV]

63. Well, that's sort of true

The problem with a general Draft is who to exclude, because we have to exclude quite a few young people. You see, we have an over-abundance of young people and if you make every 18 year old boy eligible for the draft you have to find an way to only take a small percentage of them but not overburden one segment of society. In other words if a Draft were reinstated we'd have to find many deferments and loopholes.

[treestar]

36. True enough

It's easy to be an armchair warrior. Not so easy when you or your loved ones could really die in it.

[aquart]

3. GOOD.

A lot harder to casually start a war with a draft rather than a permanent military class that always needs work.

[nashville_brook]

14. +1

[aquart]

5. We're going to need the draft anyway.

Not yet, but climate change is going to destabilize everything and there will be huge numbers of desperate people on the move.

[Ichingcarpenter]

7. Nuke em from Space its the only way.

to kill the Aliens

[onethatcares]

10. now that's gonna

piss those folks on the El Paso/Juarez border off imensely.

[ThomWV]

12. Drones and Robots

Star Wars.

Republicans are delusional at more than one level.

[bluestate10]

22. I am no republican and think that they are fucking morons.

But future wars will be fought with drones and robots with a small contingent of soldiers controlling the drones and robots from a remote location. As a scientist, this coming fact is both encouraging and scary for me. Encouraging in that american men and women will not be maimed and killed in battle. Frightening because use of drones and robots to fight will dramatically lower the threshold for politicians to use war instead of diplomacy to solve differences between nations.

[spanone]

15. the draft spurred the end of the vietnam war....bring it on

[hootinholler]

16. Empty threat!

The Pentagon does not have the authority to institute a draft.

-Hoot

[somone]

17. Defense budget cuts could also leave America open to invasion

by Al-Qaeda's navy

[awoke_in_2003]

52. that is almost as scary...

as McHale's Navy :)

[Warren Stupidity]

18. I say War Budget cuts could result in a return to peace. nt

[Warren Stupidity]

19. From the initiation of the WWII draft until its remission in '75

we were engaged in one war after another, much like we are today. The theory that providing a compulsory stream of cannon fodder to the war machine ends wars is lacking any evidence to back it up.

[former9thward]

50. It ends mass protests but does not end wars.

[sendero]

20. Make My Day..

... because the day we have the draft these BULLSHIT POINTLESS WARS will STOP.

[bluestate10]

21. The draft should be reinstated. Children reaching 18, male and female,

should have a choice, do two years public service for housing and small pay, or serve in one of the military branches for two years. Those that don't want either choice can either leave the country or be put in jail, either way, they should loose some benefits of USA citizenship. The draft will accomplish three needed changes, first it will make citizens aware of the cost of war or military conflict, so the average citizen won't be so damned jingoistic when a dumbassed politician pushes for a wrong headed military involvement. Second, the public service will provides hands to restore the country's infrastructure and cities. Third, when done with service young people will be more mature and more ready to take on the rest of their lives.

[eilen]

26. I think they should draft the draft proponents first

regardless of age.

[bluestate10]

28. I have no problem with that, since as a bright eyed just turned 18 year old, I

stood in the very last draft to happen. Felt that it was the right thing to do then, feel the same way now. The only change that should be made is NO deferrals, everyone must serve active military or in public service jobs getting housing, health care and food in return, but for little pay.

[krabigirl]

55. Good, I will move my kids and family out of the country then. At least they are dual citizens.

No way will my kids be cannon fodder in these bullshit wars of empire. Nor do I want them forced to work for the government. Sorry.

[shanti]

56. and that's exactly what the wealthy would do

with their own children. a draft would be sending the children of the poor and middle class to war, same as usual. nothing would change.

[fredamae]

23. Wow! "They" Are Getting Very Desperate

They are pulling all stops---even going "retro-talking point/scare tactics".
As antiquated as this argument is, I wonder how well it will work.

[Agony]

24. kick + rec

yeah... where is UHC?

[seabeckind]

25. Time to quit occupying foreign countries

Germany, Japan, South Korea, Italy, UK, Bahrain,

Oh, and Iraq and Afghanistan

Step 2. Quit using private security forces. Period.

If it's a war zone? NO civilian combatants or military support -- that includes the CIA.

If it's not a war zone? No military other than security for state dept.

We'll look at the other half of their budget later.

Lastly, quit hiding Pentagon spending in DHS and Energy

[Beam Me Up]

27. ^ ^ ^ + 1,000,000

[RegieRocker]

29. Oh that makes sense. Yes right. Going to pay draftees less I presume?

[awoke_in_2003]

54. the reason they get so many...

voluntary re-enlistments is due to the big bonuses they pay for them. If you draft people, you don't have to give them a sign up bonus.

[Ikonoklast]

30. And he'll do this how, exactly?

He'll shut the fuck up, soldier on, and do what he needs to do with the people he gets.

We needs LESS people in uniform; wars of cxhoice will be harder to start.

[Hotler]

31. If we had a draft eleven years ago the wars would be over eom.

[rucky]

32. I think the GOP should try to push a draft through Congress.

if they're serious about saving money

[Ichingcarpenter]

33. I thought 'Hoss' Cartwright lived on the Ponderosa

in a big ranch outside of virginia city





Whatever you say general

[Kingofalldems]

34. Draft Paris Hilton, the Kardashians, the Situation

[treestar]

35. Oh wait, I thought there were no defense budget cuts

Only social security and medicare.

Guess that's what I deserve for getting the news off of DU.

[Ichingcarpenter]

38. Believe it when you see it

I think its just talk .....

besides social security has jack shit to do with any budget talks...

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. They have been talking on this for a year or so

Clinton year levels, which is a real cut

[bulloney]

45. Historically, military "cuts" are actually reductions in increases.

You can't argue that military cuts should be at the top of any budget cutting plan when the U.S. spends more on military than the rest of the world combined. While we debate and wring our hands over what domestic programs to cut, the Pentagon can invade additional countries at the drop of a hat with no questions asked.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[unionworks]

39. come on

All of you big strong men, Uncle Sam needs your help again!:hippie: :hippie:

[WillyT]

40. K & R !!!

:wtf:

:kick:

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. So let me get this straight...cut pay

Instead of toys?

[Solly Mack]

44. You know. Same old, same old.

[Solly Mack]

43. Pfft

[Dappleganger]

46. Bring back the draft.

For every year you serve, you get one free year of tuition at a public state college.

And those fuckers who try to get out of the draft for butt boils, put them on mandatory privy duty.

[L0oniX]

47. LOL ...the shit is flying. The pentagon has no authority to draft pigs in space.

[EFerrari]

53. Lately, they seem to be forgetting that they aren't Congress

even more than usual.

[scarletwoman]

48. Ya know what? Bring it. And be sure to make it gender neutral, too. (nt)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

49. Or, they could send some guy named Vito to break some legs if they don't get their payoffs.

Defense is essentially just another protection racket.

[surrealAmerican]

57. How does that work?

Why would a draft be cheaper?

Is that much of their budget actually directed toward recruiting?

Wouldn't a draft mean more soldiers, who all need to be fed, clothed, housed, supplied, transported, etc? Why wouldn't that be more expensive?

[Zorra]

58. Scare tactic propaganda. They're full of BS. nt

[AntiFascist]

59. This is what they get for increasing our debt by several $trillion n/t

[Vattel]

60. No cuts have been proposed.

Just a slow-down in the growth of the defense budget.

[classysassy]

61. Return the draft

the war mongering politicians and their wealthy pals will never let their little brats put their spoiled buns in harms way.

[unhappycamper]

62. Bring it on........

I've been mostly reading for the last two or three months.

At this point I know that the MIC is terrified of of a $400 billion cut over ten years. If you figure the annual cost of this machine is around a trillion dollars a year, that's (less) than 5% per year. Woohoo, 5% per year. And they are worried.

I do know that the Navy budget is seriously out of whack with the cost of Virginia-class submarine ($5~7 billion dollars each and we buy two a year), DDG-1000 destroyers at $5+ billion dollars each, LCS ships at a half a billion dollars each, and the granddaddy of waste: the US Gerald R Ford at $40 billion dollars or so.

Lockheed is scrambling to get the costs of the F-35 under control, but it's now at 300% of the originally estimated cost ($60 million) and still climbing. Even McGrumpy has been bitching about the cost. I suspect the reported cost will eventually rise to (at least) the $243 million dollars I've been citing for a while. Many of the nations who had signed onto the JSF program have dropped out of the program.

F-22s have been grounded since May due to oxygen problems. The interesting thing: this is the same oxygen system used on most military aircraft.

Basically the DoD's weapons procurement programs have experienced some serious cost overruns. Everything cost much more than the original estimated costs.

And these little adventures of Obama's do not help. At the moment Currently we are killing or droning natives in: Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia, Libya & Pakistan.

I'm all for a draft; bring it on.

[woo me with science]

64. Well, since most of our economy is Department of Defense now, it only makes sense.

And since our "representatives" dislike actually representing us and are doing things now by secret emergency closed door meetings, they will be able to draft us by emergency for the wars we don't support.

You know, sort of like North Korea!