Why is Social Security in this debt ceiling discussion?

[SHRED]

It is my understanding that SS does not add to the National debt.

Why did the President allow it into the "negotiations" regarding raising the debt ceiling?
Why does he name it in his talks about our National debt?


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[Sarah Ibarruri]

1. I'd like to know that myself, and I think we need to make sure the President knows we don't approve

As long as we're silent and don't write him, don't complain, don't protest, he will go on ahead and try to play nice with the Repukes.

[Synicus Maximus]

3. I'm sorry but do you really think the President cares what we think>

[Sarah Ibarruri]

5. He will, when election time rolls around. Or do you think he wants only one go-round? nt

[SHRED]

6. White House Email

http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact

[leftstreet]

2. Why wasn't Single Payer part of the healthcare reform discussion?

Many questions

[Davis_X_Machina]

4. It doesn't.

But no one in the rising generation believes it's going to be there for them.
And everyone, young and old, has had it dinned into them that 'Social Security is in crisis'.

I know it's not broken, you know it's not broken, but it takes fifty million give or take to elect a president, and a lot of those fifty million votes can be got by 'fixing' Social Security -- even if it isn't broken.

I don't know why people are shocked when politicians, for whom popularity is like oxygen, take steps to address what people think are problems -- even when the problems aren't really there.

Ever seen Ghostbusters?

If I'm wrong, nothing happens! We go to jail. Peacefully, quietly. We'll enjoy it! But if I'm right, and we can stop this, thing; Lenny, you will have saved the lives of millions of registered voters.

[abelenkpe]

10. I'm genX

Have heard ss won't be there and have forever thought that is baloney propaganda spread in the hope that my generation just allows itself to be ripped off after a lifetime of paying in.

[OwnedByFerrets]

11. BUT, he wont be fixing SS. The noise machine will make sure of that.

No matter what he does to SS (besides nothing) he will be lambasted by reich wing radio as killing old folks and gutting SS. They (repugs) are on their knees praying that he "reforms" SS so that they can use this against him. REFORM = POLITICAL DEATH.

[Davis_X_Machina]

22. There's zero downside risk....

...because if he does nothing, the noise machine says SS is doomed, and if he fixes it, he -- and SS -- is also doomed.

Heads-I-win, tails-I-lose cuts both ways. Considering the youth, and relatively young, vote was what was there for him in '08, and missing in the '10 Congressionals, all the upside potential politically comes from the 'fix' -- even if it's not broken.

65 and up voted for McCain by 10 points.

His political calculus may be off, or not, but it's not like there's no calculus at all.

Deciding to run on the slogan "Winning the Future" suggests where the center of gravity in the campaign is going to be.

[blkmusclmachine]

7. So they can go after it.

They want our money. Every last penny of it. Manufacturing a crisis to slam through unpopular legislation. Check it out: Naomi Klein, "The Shock Doctrine."

[abelenkpe]

8. Why aren't cuts to defense included in this discussion?

Or ending the wars?

Raising the ceiling shouldn't and hasn't ever been this big of a deal.

I'm still confused though. Republicans want to make sure corporations and the wealthy don't have to sacrifice? (bad for the economy they say)
Democrats don't want the working class (who have already sacrificed) to sacrifice further? (Can't have a consumer driven economy with no consumers)
Both Dems and Republicans don't even think of asking for defense spending cuts?

And we're considering all these sacrifices so the global economy continues to have faith and the ability to repay banks?

Same banks that came hat in hand a few years ago?

Same banks that raised fees cut off credit and laid off tens of thousands of workers?

Is that it?

Or do I just not like banks?

(spelling)

[fascisthunter]

9. they want people to think the debt and SS are connected

so they can fuck with it... now why would they do that?

[xchrom]

13. +1

[boppers]

18. "debt and SS are connected"... by law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_Trust_Fund

[leeroysphitz]

29. Your sig line has become a sad joke. n/t

[1stBunny]

27. The 3 components of debt according to Teabag economics

1) SS
2) Medicare
3) The bank bailout

I think Faux Snooze tells them this...

[rosesaylavee]

12. Here's a link that helped me get my head around this

I haven't seen this DUer over here for awhile but good to know she/he is still around the internet tubes making sense:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/07/992060/-A-Non-Hysterical-Progressive-Analysis-of-so-called-Social-Security-Cuts-on-the-Table

[PoliticAverse]

19. So if you accept his/her argument, why even put COLAs in the table...

since it won't amount to much difference anyway.

The article speaks for itself where it uses phrases like "the professional left".


"Cat food and dog food are more expensive than human food, at least in my neighborhood."


But not in the neighborhoods of most poor Americans, which presumably the Social Security
fight is about.

[rosesaylavee]

24. I put myself in the 'poor' category and this made sense to me

So the DK person has an attitude on 'the professional left' of which I also place myself in. I don't care about any of that. What DOES interests me is their take on the spin that's out there and what is actually being talked about.

I don't know why the opposition here would take this - perhaps as a face-saving measure? I really don't know.

[lumberjack_jeff]

14. Why? Cuz he wants it there. n/t

[kelly1mm]

15. It was true up untill this year that SS does not add to the debt. However,

as part of the Obama/Bush tax cut extention, a payroll tax holiday of about 1/3 of the employee side of the SS tax was enacted. Those 'missing' funds are being credited to the SS trust fund with general revenue funds. Since just under 40 cents of every dollar in the general revenue this past year is borrowed, a portion of those funds that went to the trust fund were borrowed, thus increasing the national debt.

[boppers]

21. The trust fund is part of the national debt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_Trust_Fund

[kelly1mm]

28. So we both agree that the OP was incorrect, factually? nt

[SolutionisSolidarity]

16. It didn't add to the debt, but now it does.

Remember we cut the payroll tax.

[indepat]

17. Because the Republicans and the President want it in the debt-ceiling discussion, what

else? :shrug: :patriot:

[EFerrari]

20. Because it's about the only thing left that they haven't stolen yet. n/t

[unkachuck]

23. "Because it's about the only thing left that they haven't stolen yet."

....exactly....and have these thieves been arrested? Sent to prison? Executed?

....why should we sacrifice anything until these criminals have been apprehended, punished and our Social Security trust fund monies secured....

....leaving these bastards in charge and at large, is like appointing Al Capone, Attorney General.

[boppers]

25. Your understanding is wrong.

It's a common mistake, though.

The SS Trust Fund is a huge part of our existing national debt, and the trust fund itself put it's money... into Treasury Bills, which is also future national debt.

The common error is confusing "deficit" and "debt". Social security took in positive amounts for many years, and it is not running at a loss (deficit), but the concern is twofold:
1. If the US is viewed as less solvent, the "money" Social Security had invested (in US debt) will lose value, as the dollars loses value.
2. The sheer amount owed by the US government to future SS payouts adds a large amount to national debt, over 2.5 trillion.

[rucky]

26. Reducing SS benefits will reduce our debt to it.

and the interest on the debt, which comes out of our budget.

Or something like that.

[slipslidingaway]

30. knr n/t