Alien encounters "within twenty years" (6-27-11 Reuters via Guardian)

[bobthedrummer]

A top Russian astronomer says he expects humans to encounter extraterrestrail civilisations within the next two decades
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/jun/27/alien-encounters-twenty-years-russian-astronomer

There is long-suppressed evidence about this, it's not at all tin-foil today!

Where are you at on this Russian astronomer's statement?

[ImNotTed]

1. Russia has ZERO credibility on this issue

[bobthedrummer]

6. they were ALWAYS a majorleague disinfo network despite The Periodic Chart, ImNotTed

[ImNotTed]

129. The 3-eyed Aliens of Voronezh, Russia

http://articles.latimes.com/1989-10-22/news/vw-618_1_soviet-union

:rofl:

[devilgrrl]

2. Why would an Alien from another planet want to come here?

:crazy:

[bobthedrummer]

5. Earth women were found fair-how about that one devilgrrl?

:)

[LongTomH]

215. What makes you think they'll have to be male aliens?

Maybe they're females looking for human males to abduct!

[bobthedrummer]

217. I concur-and then there (quite likely imho) is the UNKNOWN! n/t

:woohoo:

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Our long range sensors will be able

to detect earth size planets in ten years, and atmospheres... this does not mean UFOs coming here.

[bobthedrummer]

20. It hard times there too nadinbrzezinski, and I appreciate your distinction

Budget Cuts Shutter SETI's Search for Aliens (4-27-11 wired UK)
http://www.wired.comwiredscience/2011/04/seti-telescope-shutdown/

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. Seti uses radio telescopes

I am talking of the Spitzer Long Range Sensor in space, as well as the others in orbit.

As is, more and more we are thinking that radio signals will not be the way... and of course Spitzer is not looking for radio, but actual planets.

[bobthedrummer]

168. The Chandra satellite network and particle beams?

Mind Justice works with survivors of non-consensual "national security" experimentation. Some of it was in directed-energy weapons systems and more pharmaceutical/CBW. Here's their description of themselves: Mind Justice A human rights group working for the rights and protections of mental integrity and freedom from new technologies and weapons that target the mind and nervous system

http://www.mindjustice.org

[WinkyDink]

46. Resources. Colonization.

[yawnmaster]

74. With the infinite energy it might require to travel any significant distance...

They may as well just create their own planets for colonization...
And if its resources they need, what business do they have using infinite energy when they need it back on their home planet?

[roguevalley]

130. I don't know. I'll ask Optimus Prime. And frankly, I hope I get to

be the one who finds out first. I could use a sweet ride. (Camaro freak alert!)

[Warren Stupidity]

136. We taste real good when deep fried. nt

[JVS]

178. To steal our jobs!

[bobthedrummer]

3. Any fellow members ever have what they believe to be an interaction with an unknown intelligence?

Don't need details just a head count besides me-there's my rational for belief--something along the lines of this message's subject line happened to me 50/+ years ago when I was around 11. I've said enough in this thread, no details needed.

[Blue_In_AK]

11. Yes, I have.

Summer of 1968 in the mountains west of Denver, near Georgetown. And, no, I wasn't tripping.

[bobthedrummer]

15. HI again then Blue_In_AK

:hug:

[hootinholler]

134. Yeah I have!

I put them on my ignore list

:rofl:

:hi:

-Hoot

[bobthedrummer]

218. lol

:rofl:

[LongTomH]

213. Yeah! When I talk to my conservative family members!

Oh wait, you said intelligence.:rofl:

[Rex]

216. When I was 11.

[bobthedrummer]

219. Hi Rex

:grouphug:

[didact]

223. I want details!

eom

[Deep13]

4. It would be the most significant discovery since the ability to make fire.

Still, while life may be inevitable, complex life and intelligent life sufficient to communicate across the universe probably isn't. Given how roomy space is, how slow radio is to cross it, the probable rarity of communicating civilizations and the short amount of time any civilization will be broadcasting, I think the prediction is wishful thinking.

[kenny blankenship]

7. Maybe on Match.com

but "Alien encounters" will never fly on eHarmony or Christianmingle, not in 20 years and not in 20 centuries.

[bobthedrummer]

12. fyi kenny_blankenship, there are already many "communities" related to this general topic-aliens

Not to mention entire schools of thought. It's a reality to many already.

[nadinbrzezinski]

Innevitable

it will happen, at the latest, in my lifetime... which is forty years.

[spanone]

8. so, this russian astronomer hasn't heard of michelle bachmann?

[bobthedrummer]

10. She is HIVE!

on edit: In the context of NBC's old DARK SKIES series. It wasn't far-off the mark in some respects.

[tridim]

13. Maybe, maybe not

I'm going with 29.7 years.

I tend to believe that advanced life doesn't necessarily need to breathe gas, drink water, produce waste or even occupy a body. Unless they are advertising their presence I think they will be difficult to find using current optical and radio telescopes. I definitely don't think we should only be looking at Earth-like planets for signs of life.

[bobthedrummer]

16. Limitless possibilities tridum

[EOTE]

180. I'm interested in your views on advanced life.

So, if they don't need any of those things, how do they propagate? How would they pass down their genetic material without a body? I've contemplated many different forms of life, but I've never considered that life could be that far removed from what we know now.

[bobthedrummer]

14. Screwed: Aliens DID the DU Unrec crews too-kick

[AsahinaKimi]

17. Maybe not the best place to post this but....

You can watch the entire movie of CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMAob02Ro6I

[bobthedrummer]

220. I've seen it several times-it's a Steven Spielberg production n/t

:hide:

[struggle4progress]

18. We know about 500 or 600 exoplanets, and so far none are known to closely resemble Earth

[bobthedrummer]

22. Too early to tell using all the factors used in interactions in the unkwown

[struggle4progress]

50. "Finkelstein said 10% of the known planets .. resemble Earth" means Finkelstein is a BSer

[WinkyDink]

48. Have you noticed how, "in the last few years," there's H20 on the Moon? Mars?

We do not know everything known to some.

[bobthedrummer]

221. Europa and other outer planet satellites have H2O too...

[joshcryer]

139. None are known to resemble earth because we lack for spectroscopy for the ones that might.

When we have the ultra large telescopes in 10 years and we have a much much larger inventory of planets, I expect we'll find one that does in fact resemble Earth.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

19. IBTMT911

[bobthedrummer]

24. It's down to two now: the red white black or the black/white in the MC as OC world

[provis99]

21. shouldn't this be in the 911 dungeon?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

23. It will, shortly.

[bobthedrummer]

27. I like it right here in GD provis99, it' could be posted in LBN for that matter.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. You think the SCIENTIFIC research on ET is worthy of the 911

dungeon? Nothing personal you think Earth is flat?

For the record we have found 563 exoplanets so far. That is science, not tifoil. Most are Jovian Giants, a few are super earths, ONE is a candidate for life.

[originalpckelly]

42. The world is not flat, but aren't there some people who make you wish it was?

:P

[InvisibleTouch]

25. Detecting them from a distance doesn't necessarily mean they will come to visit.

Yes, they are out there, I have no doubt - but I don't think they find Sol-3 so important or interesting that they care to bother with us. If we do get neighbors dropping by at some point, it will likely be accidental. Yes, I'd love to see it happen, but I'm not holding my breath.

[bobthedrummer]

28. Hi Invisible_Touch

:grouphug:

[zappaman]

26. Whooo!!!! n/t

[originalpckelly]

29. Mods, I'd tell the poster just to rewrite the OP to edit out the weird stuff.

The article itself is not woo.

[bobthedrummer]

31. It's the work of REUTERS-I merely posted the article.

The rest of US are just bouncing some free-thinking ideas.

[originalpckelly]

33. Having an open mind is good...

just be sure your brain doesn't fall out.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. 563 exoplanets found so far

some are super earths, one is a candidate for life. Is that woo too? This is not ET coming here, landing in front of the Kremlin and saying take me to your leader.

It is having EVIDENCE of life out there beyond SOL... which Spitzer is tuned up to try to find.

Odds are that life is very common, and out there... as in very good odds at this point.

[originalpckelly]

40. That's not what the OP said.

I'm down with the science, but not down with people claiming to have met ET.

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. This is what it says

"A top Russian astronomer says he expects humans to encounter extraterrestrail civilisations within the next two decades"

Sorry if I do not take that to mean meet up for some dinner and shnaptz, but rather long range sensors finding evidence of such.

[originalpckelly]

52. Um:

"There is long-suppressed evidence about this, it's not at all tin-foil today!"

Yeah, point match serve. Checkmate, Game Over, and thank you for playing.

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. Yes and... whatever you think

the evidence points that YES WE WILL FIND EVIDENCE OF SUCH.

AS TO LIFE OUT THERE COMING HERE... IT HAS HAPPENED... HOW DO YOU THINK THE CHAINS OF AMINO ACIDS AND COMPLEX PROTEINS CAME TO THE ANCIENT EARTH? Again that is like basic and now accepted science. Panspermia, not just a kookie theory any longer.

[originalpckelly]

59. And how did they get started in the first place?

If you think it is impossible for them to have begun here on their own, why should they have formed anywhere else?

[nadinbrzezinski]

67. Pick up a science book or read a science article

or watch the science channel.

They do not think life is exlcuse to earth any more, or that amino acids just formed on the ancient earth... sorry... we will find ET in my lifetime... and I CANNOT FRACKING WAIT FOR THAT. A lovely problem for those bronze age religion that are so damn human centric... time we find out we are not alone in the damn universe.

[originalpckelly]

72. I have heard of the idea before.

I read quite a lot, in fact most of what I read is pure non-fiction, I am not entertained by anything else most of the time. (That's what happens when you only have an encyclopedia to read as a kid.)

Just because someone forwards the idea, does not mean it is absolutely true. One must weigh the evidence for or against said idea.

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. Yes and...

so you think we are alone in the universe and there is no way, no how that there could be life out there, as close actually as one of our jovian moons... no, not Europa by the way.

[originalpckelly]

80. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that life on Earth may be native to it.

Or maybe not.

We don't know yet.

Don't allege we do. That's all.

[nadinbrzezinski]

83. And evidence is now pointing to a combo of it

and probably the rise of TWO trees of life...

One that is phosphorus based the other cyanide, (DNA chains)

But hey, if life rose TWICE on earth it cannot rise anywhere else, we are unique, the most advanced and the universe goes around us.

I sincerely hope you are NOT in the sciences.

[Silent3]

92. There's a difference between embracing the possibilities...

...and acting like the possibilities which most appeal to one's imagination might as well have already been proven true, and that it's just a matter of time until the rest of the world "catches up" with unfounded leaps of faith concerning the possibilities that are out there.

The more properly scientific position is staying firmly in the "we don't know" camp until compelling strong evidence comes along.

[nadinbrzezinski]

96. Evidence is pointing is not a statement of fact

but saying that no way. no how there could be life out there, is a statement of... FAITH.

[Silent3]

100. Who in this thread so far...

...has said, "no way. no how there could be life out there" other than the straw man in your head?

[nadinbrzezinski]

103. Good bye

[yawnmaster]

102. the converse is true. Saying there is life out there is a statement of faith...

Until we have evidence otherwise.

[nadinbrzezinski]

106. How exactly? Given that we have found

the basic aminoacids in deep space, in a commet, and PERHAPS, still controversial, Martian fossils?

We have evidence that POINTS to the POSSIBILITY of life out there. We have ONE world that is in the life zone, and IF THERE IS LIFE, it is a damn good candidate, will be different than anything on Earth by the way... for good evolutionary pressures.

[yawnmaster]

114. Some evidence, at best makes for theory that one might believe is true...

and how do you know that life would be different?
Again, just guesses, beliefs.

Of course, there is possibility of life; that we can prove, as life exists!
But whether it actually does, and especially, intelligent life - unknown.

[nadinbrzezinski]

117. You know what planet I am talking about

or why THE PEOPLE WORKING IN THE FIELD BELIEVE IT WOULD BE DIFFERENT?

Or you don't...

[tkmorris]

109. Exactly so

It's like a Catholic ridiculing a Hindu because his religious beliefs aren't supported by evidence.

[yawnmaster]

115. I do want to make it clear that I am all for having beliefs, wishes, and hopes...

but believing, hoping and wishing will not make something true (nor will it make it false).

[Eddie Haskell]

201. Earth is the evidence!

Earth and the odds.

[tkmorris]

107. Yeah, except no one said that

[Silent3]

108. I should have added, saying "evidence is pointing" is still going too far.

There are good reasons to suspect that there is alien life in the universe. That's a matter of educated guesswork, however, not an evidence-based conclusion. Evidence so far merely reveals some facts which make ideas like panspermia more worthy of speculation and, if possible, future research.

[yawnmaster]

82. Wishing hard may get one a pony, but it's not going to give some alien civilization the ability...

to break laws of physics (unless they can use magic) and even if they do (use magic) the odds against them choosing this portion of the universe to visit (and waste their mana) is, well, astronomical.

Because of the vast distances, the energy required to travel, and human lifespans, there may be a forest of life in the universe, but we will never see anything beyond, perhaps, microbes. We are, effectively, alone.

But we can watch old Star Trek episodes.

[nadinbrzezinski]

85. Re-read the thread please SPITZER telescope hardly

implies a stable worm hole, unless NASA is hiding something.

[yawnmaster]

90. And the other end is just, coincidently, near some place interesting in a universe filled with...

vacuum? And how does one "enter" a wormhole without being (almost) infinitely stretched?

Again, magic is coming to mind.

[nadinbrzezinski]

95. Where exactly did I say Spitzer can produce a worm hole?

I SAID ORBITAL SENSORS... again... unless NASA is hiding something, and some really weird science... hope they are not, but perhaps you got the inside track, we CANNOT produce a stable worm hole. We can produce little black holes, WE THINK... at places like the HADRON collider. They have a problem with the magnets... but hey... that is just theoretical at this point.

So exactly when did I say worm hole and ET? I said we will be able to tell IF LIFE is out there within my lifetime... with LONG RANGE as in VERY LONG RANGE sensors.

[yawnmaster]

104. And I'm saying that any wormholes that may exist are useless for anything except...

to fuel the imagination.

[nadinbrzezinski]

110. Deep into the science fiction realm

how do you know a more advanced civilization could not control the forces et al? Just because we can't...

I mean when the Spaniards encountered the Aztecs, that was a fantastical encounter from the point of the Aztecs... for the record IF a civilization could cross the void, their technology is so far advanced from ours it would be like the six limbed being, with two horses that spat fire... aka the Spanish Cavalryman. Oh wait, it would make that look like nothing,

Asimov comes to mind on this... any sufficiently advanced form of science is indistiinguishable from magic.

By the way before you say it, I am not saying I had dinner with ET last night either. I am more than just aware of the technical issues at hand...

[yawnmaster]

118. First of all, that quote is from Clarke not Asimov...Second wormholes are at this...

time theoretical and the argument is that an advanced civilization could theoretically control a theoretical phenomenon?
And yes, magic may exist...but if you go too deep into the science fiction realm to the point of wishing hard and believing that we are going to be visited "soon" then I -believe- you are setting yourself up for a life of waiting and sadness.

BUT, maybe not - as it is enjoyable to hope and imagine...
for instance, me imagining all the things I'd do with a major lottery win.

[nadinbrzezinski]

121. I don't expect to be visited

you keep saying that.

I EXPECT DEEP SPACE PROBES SUCH AS SPITZER AND GALILEO TO FIND EVIDENCE THAT THERE ARE WORLDS OFF SOL THAT CAN SUPPORT LIFE... I ALSO EXPECT DEEP SPACE ROBOTS TO EXPLORE THE JOVIAN SYSTEM AND CONFIRM THAT EITHER THERE IS LIFE OR NOT IN ONE OF THOSE WORLDS THAT HAPPENS TO HAVE AN OCEAN MADE OF SALT WATER. Look for it, one of the moons has an ocean made of salt water... hence the POSSIBILITY of life.

I will repeat this though... IF WE ARE INDEED VISITED BY YOUR FRIENDLY OR NOT SO FRIENDLY ET THEIR TECHNOLOGY IS SO FAR AHEAD OF US, THAT IT WILL BE INDEED LIKE SPANIARDS MEETING AZTECS ALL OVER. LET ME CORRECT THAT... IT WILL BE FAR WORST, SINCE IT MEANS THEY CAN DO SOMETHING WE CONSIDER IMPOSSIBLE. SAILING ACROSS THE OCEAN BLUE WAS NOT IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE AZTECS, JUST NOT IN THEIR LIST OF THINGS TO DO.

THAT DOES NOT MEAN I HAD BORDEAUX LAST NIGHT OVER DINNER WITH MR. ET. SO STOP PUTTING WORDS INTO MY MOUTH. OH AND AFTER THIS VIRTUAL SCREAMING, WELCOME TO MY IGNORE LIST, SINCE YOU ARE INCAPABLE OF HAVING A CIVILIZED DISCUSSION SINCE YOU ARE INDEED INVESTED IN HOW UNIQUE LIFE ON EARTH IS, AND OF COURSE HOW SPECIAL WE ARE...

PHEW.

[yawnmaster]

170. NOT PUTTING WORDS IN MOUTH STOP

CIVILIZED DISCUSSION STOPPED AT YOUR END STOP
LIFE ON EARTH IS UNIQUE STOP
WE ARE SPECIAL STOP
NO PROOF OTHERWISE ONLY WISHES STOP
ESCAPISM UNDERSTANDABLE STOP
DONT MIND BEING ON IGNORE STOP
NOT YELLING STOP
SENDING FROM KPAX ONLY TELEX AVAILABLE STOP

[GOTV]

190. So much shouting .... n/t

[StarsInHerHair]

150. technically it's Clay-Age religions, the Brahmic & Abrahamic Fish ones.........

the older Hellenic, Pagan, Heathen religions seemed to describe whole other races of Heavenly Beings, even Native American religions. I say Clay-Age because Pisces "metal" is clay & the Arian Age the preceded it was the sign of the Ram & its' metal is Iron, the Age of the Bull..........well I guess you get my point........it basically comes down to 'who's on first' & it's NOT accurate with the current crop of astrologers.


then there's the U.N. advisor for alien contact, that story must be around somewhere, & the Pope's astronomer also talking about alien contact

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/sep/17/pope-astronomer-baptise-aliens

[tkmorris]

Sorry, that's not correct

It's a theory, but to call it "basic and accepted science" is just not true. Also, what evidence you saying "points that we will find evidence of such", meaning evidence of extraterrestrial life? Don't misunderstand, there are very few things I'd like to see more, but I cannot in good conscience claim that it is inevitable, or even likely very soon. If you know of evidence otherwise I'd love to hear of it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

73. So morgan freeman lied yesterday in through the wormhole?

It is more complex than that, but these days the understanding

is that yes, them comets that fell on early earth had chains... and we have found them as well IN THAT PESKY COMET that we sent a robotic probe to.

Oh there is more, it is also believed that the ENERGY in those crashes has a lot to do with basic chains becoming MORE COMPLEX chains, and yes RNA.

[tkmorris]

91. No Nadine, Mr Freeman is discussing THEORIES

He knows they are theories, not facts. That is the intent of the show actually. There are many different theories, most of which are incompatible with each other, to explains lifes origins. This is but one.

In another episode Morgan examines the question "Does Time Exist?". Are you going to offer that up as proof that time, in fact, does not exist? It's an idea, nothing more. You'll find that a great many of that shows episodes have titles that end in question marks. They know full well that what they are discussing are open questions, not established scientific facts.

[Silent3]

98. They aren't even "theories" in the proper scientific sense of the word.

Those ideas are only "theories" in the commonplace sense of that word. In proper scientific terminology all current talk of alien life, alien biochemistry, panspermia, etc., is mere conjecture. Educated conjecture with a strong basis in known science, perhaps, but conjecture nevertheless.

[tridim]

113. Why do you hate physicists?

Kidding.

These shows certainly aren't meant to be scientific journals, but the theories are usually actual theories presented by actual physicists who do actual work in the field. Do you have an example of one that isn't?

[nadinbrzezinski]

116. And the term THEORY is actually the correct term

in the history of science and scientific theory... they have the major factor to them... HYPOTHESIS.

As to Panspermia, until ten years ago people laughed... but then again there is this other theory people laughed... plate tectonics.

[Silent3]

125. No, theory is not the correct scientific term.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory

No current speculation about alien life comes close to reaching a "theory" by that definition.

[Silent3]

124. Panspermia, or alien life in general...

...while certainly very plausible ideas, are examples of conjectures which don't fit the scientific definition of "theory":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory

Einstein's "theory of gravity" is not a theory about whether or not gravity exists. The theory takes the existence of gravity as a fact, and then provides an explanatory frame work for how gravity works, complete with new testable predictions (some of which have already been successfully tested).

[nadinbrzezinski]

101. And you are dismissing the theories out of hand

THEORIES are being tested right now... but I AM SURE YOU KNEW THAT.

And theories are telling us that LIFE OUTSIDE PLANET EARTH is very LIKELY.

That does not mean life outside of planet earth has radio telescopes aimed at earth and transmitting as I type. That does not mean we have not been testing this TEHORY for a while, called the SETI project.

Theories tell us that the universe is far more complex than most of us actually understand by the way... and I will say this... many folks here refuse this little theory on the existence of life OFF SOL, on RELIGIOUS FAITH.

[tridim]

94. A bit off topic, but that show is so freaking great.

Wednesday is Science Channel night in my house.

I think this week's episode is about the holographic theory, which BTW could make all these sub-threads obsolete.

[nadinbrzezinski]

112. Yep

marathon yesterday

[GOTV]

191. Morgan Freeman!? .... omg n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

214. Have you bothered to watch the show?

You might understand the comment then.

Of course I could have mentioned Carl Sagan, but Cosmos is a little old by now and he was also proof positive we were not alone... it is the math, but whatever.

Or for that matter, Frank Drake

Would Michio Kaku be good for you, how about Marc Greene? Perhaps the Exo biology staff at NASA? (Who were talking about this in through the worm hole?) Are those people qualified in your mind?

[bobthedrummer]

222. How many governments here on Earth in 2011 have released long classified (ergo supressed) UFO/alien

"reports"-here (including a 1950 FBI paper on the Roswell case), UK, Germany...of course there's your short-sighted bias too, originalpckelly.
:+

[Occulus]

131. Here's an honest question, one I don't see asked all that often.

Assume, for this argument, aliens are visiting Earth. What evidence would you accept that would rise to your definition of 'proof'?

[GOTV]

192. A demonstration of their technology?

[Warren Stupidity]

138. Since when was GD anything other than a cesspool of "weird stuff"

propped up by a link or two?

[yawnmaster]

30. I will love to know how they get around the light speed barrier. eom

[tridim]

34. Compressed, twisted, crumpled, overlapping space.

It can be done if you have enough energy.

[yawnmaster]

45. Like an infinite amount? maybe they can also do it with magic. Possible with enough mana. eom

[tridim]

53. So I take it you don't believe black holes exist?

It's physics, not magic.

[originalpckelly]

57. A stable wormhole is like trying to find someone stable in my family.

It just ain't happening sweetie. :P

[yawnmaster]

64. You do it with magic! That way the stable wormhole appears and its other end...

just happens to have another nearby or is near something interesting.
Oh and magic will help you survive even entering one.
Unless, of course, you have a stasis field generator, but magic is easier.

[tridim]

66. I'd say I'm bookmarking this response, but really what's the point?

Nature bends the hell out of space and it is usually perfectly stable.

The space I'm occupying right now is bent.

[originalpckelly]

69. Perfect, so when I tell you to get bent...

:rofl:

Just kidding.

I'm quite well aware of how it works in basic concept. Can you explain to us how you'd avoid being stretched out like a piece of spaghetti?

[tridim]

75. I was going to make a joke about "What's the POINT" too but decided against it.

Again, we're talking about life billions of years more advanced than us. All I'm saying is that physics predicts that bending space is possible with just energy, lots of it.

[originalpckelly]

79. As I say below: how do you know we're not the most advanced?

:shrug:

Maybe we're the first life to really get to this stage?

That's a pretty cool thought, isn't it?

[tridim]

88. Because we have Republicans.

[yawnmaster]

62. yes, black holes exist. your point? How do you use them? and the near infinite tidal force near...

it? So how does one use a black hole or worm hole and survive?

[tridim]

70. We're talking about life that is billions of years more advanced than us.

I don't know how, but I do know basic physics says it is possible.

[originalpckelly]

78. How the hell do you know that's true?

Perhaps the conditions that support life in the universe only became available on the time line of Earth? Why shouldn't it be that way?

The universe, in theory, is only so old. You start off with hydrogen and work your way up getting heavier and heavier elements. It takes a while for that shit to build up.

Who is to say that we aren't the most advanced life in the universe? (No offense to bleep and blop, please do not disintegrate us with your death ray for my insolence.)

[nadinbrzezinski]

89. The universe is 13.5 billion years old

the solar system is 4.5, life on earth goes back 4.3 billion.

The early universe could not support life, no doubt on this, first gen stars did not... second and THIRD gen, we are not so sure... as by second there were already some heavy metals consistent with life.

So for the sake of argument let's double life in the universe from SOL... WE ARE NOT that unique, and there are billions of galaxies and on this galaxy alone over a trillion stars. You are telling us that Earth is that unique?

[yawnmaster]

93. A trillion stars isn't that many. If I had a dollar for every star...

I still couldn't pay the US debt! LOL

Seriously (or not), what is missing is the calculation for the odds of intelligent life arising. Maybe its a trillion to one and we are that one.

Oh, and the Earth is unique, as far as we know.

Anything else is a guess.

[nadinbrzezinski]

111. let me intro you to this

http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topics/SETI/drake_equation.html

[yawnmaster]

120. I well know that equation. lol...note that at least two of the factors may have numbers...

of zero or slightly larger. If any are zero, guess what the answer is...zero.

I've plugged some numbers into that equation that are within the realm of knowledge and have got as few as...

2 civilizations that can communicate!
Odds are not good.

[originalpckelly]

97. How do we know that bleep and blop haven't plugged themselves into a virtual world...

and couldn't give a shit about the "real" one any longer?

[nadinbrzezinski]

135. And how do we know they have not?

There is more, how do we know ours is not a figment of somebody else's imagination? You know a giant game of sims...

[BanzaiBonnie]

205. I like the way you think

I've often wondered this myself. The fact is, we don't know.

[yawnmaster]

87. Maybe we are the ones that are at the lead of technology...then we need to wait a billion years...

before we can figure out how to get near infinite amounts of energy to bend space and to exit our physical bodies (so that we can survive the near infinite tidal forces near infinite gravity wells like wormholes).

[bobthedrummer]

35. What are wormholes?

[tkmorris]

41. Theoretical

[yawnmaster]

43. How does one overcome the tidal forces when entering a theoretical wormhole? eom

[originalpckelly]

49. Well, I did yesterday on my walk with my dog.

After all, the speed of light is different in different mediums. For example, the speed of light in the sun is so low, because of its high density, that we are actually observing light from at least 10,000 years ago. Perhaps as many as 90,000 years ago.

Now, if you mean c which is the speed of light in a vacuum, then nothing actually moves that fast that has mass, or faster than that, if it does not. Except one case that I can think of, somehow when you measure two particles which have become entangled, they almost magically transmit their state to the other particle, which promptly has the opposite state of what has been measured with the other particle. It's pretty fucked up really.

Or else, it's some other kind of neat little trick we have yet to find out about that really has nothing to with particles magically transmitting their current state to the other particle they have become entangled with.

But, if it does, then I've read that happens faster than the speed of light.

[InvisibleTouch]

61. Just because human scientists can't imagine how it could be done...

...doesn't mean it can't be done. And all respect to Albert Einstein, but many theories that have in the past been "proven" without question have later turned out to be wrong, when looked at from a whole new angle.

[originalpckelly]

65. That is one valid observation.

His own theory is an example of this.

1/2mv^2 predicts quite a lot more kinetic energy for any given velocity

than does:


The difference, in part, between the two is that the relativistic version has the limit of c.

But who knows, maybe we'll figure out some other way that works differently. It doesn't mean we know now, or that people can simply think something we cannot prove is true, but we also do not know something else is true.

While we must proceed with only the evidence we have, that does not preclude us from dreaming it is possible when we are merely considering possibilities and not reality.

[yawnmaster]

99. If we didn't dream, what a boring existence this would be....

but still, wishing for something, even wishing really hard, or hoping and hoping hard, won't make it happen.

[originalpckelly]

105. Very true.

That seems to be the point in this thread.

[yawnmaster]

122. And I agree...but occasionaly one might come down to Earth...

or not.
okay...I do love arguing the point of scientific evidence and making wild predictions.

And it is hard not to lay back in the mountains and look at the sky and not imagine things.

[yawnmaster]

68. And many just have no supporting evidence otherwise. For all intents and purposes, alone...

in the universe, we may be.
The cosmos may be teaming with life, but we may as well just write books about it as we are, here, stranded in our little gravity well, limited by human life spans and the speed of light.

[Warren Stupidity]

142. and given the general failure of SETI

the simplest explanation is that tech civs are short lived and rare, and that we are each isolated in our little space-time bubble. There might be exceptions where tech civs overlap in time and space such that they can at least "see" each other, but the odds of us being one of those is near zero.

[nadinbrzezinski]

146. There is another explanation

radio dissipates into background far faster than it was understood when it was first set up.

More than radio there are other ways to look for signals,

That is one that I recently read... but what can I say?

We are just getting our baby feet into the stellar ocean... other means of looking at deep space will lead to better results I suspect.

[Warren Stupidity]

140. so the how at this point is "woo"

[nadinbrzezinski]

147. If anybody could do this, given OUR current

state of technology, yes it would be woo...

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PufPuf23]

39. Humanity's plagues are Ego and Anthropromorphism

I suspect what is real is infinity to the power infinity.

There is more probability of existing and ongoing occult contact now than "contact of civilizations" of species with arms, leg, and head within 20 years.

Divinity in complexity is all over the place in detail.

Recorded or interpreted archeological human history and the religions of Abraham and other human death or despair cults are less than a speck of dust.

[Kingofalldems]

44. I agree. Saw a UFO in 1977.

[originalpckelly]

55. Ulysses Fitzgerald O'Connor?

Why do people keep on talking about seeing this dude? Get over him already, I bet he doesn't even exist.

[Kingofalldems]

119. GFY

[sofa king]

158. Jimmy, that's out of character.

[Eddie Haskell]

202. Never seen anything myself, but

In 1977, my 8 year-old sons were lost for hours. When they showed up, they claimed they had only walked around the block. Then they claimed to have seen a football field sized aircraft hovering above a neighborhood barn. We didn't buy their story, but I had them sketch what they had seen and we wrote down the details. We recently rediscovered the sketches while cleaning the attic. We had a good laugh, but both boys, now in their forties, still claim they saw a huge arrowhead shaped craft hover and then accelerate till out of sight. Interestingly, triangular UFOs weren't common prior to the 1990's.

[BanzaiBonnie]

206. I saw one close up in 1978

I still have no idea what it was, but my daughter saw it too. She was three and I turned to her and asked if she saw something. She said it was an upside down turtle shell.

[Eddie Haskell]

209. Cool.

My sister-in-law saw one too.

[bobthedrummer]

210. Hi Kingofalldems

:thumbsup:

[WatsonT]

51. And they know this because . . . ?

[originalpckelly]

56. The monkey they just pulled out of their ass told them.

:shrug:

[yawnmaster]

71. They had a vision, or a dream, or maybe they read it...

on an Ouija board.

[Maru Kitteh]

54. LMAO! Why is it always the RUSSIANS! lol.

this should be in the 9/11 silly bin.

[Speck Tater]

60. Reminds of "Computers as intelligent as humans in 20 years" that I heard back in 1965. nt

[Motown_Johnny]

86. and "The Paperless Society", my personal favorite

even beats out flying cars IMO

[greytdemocrat]

63. Call the Emperor.

[WatsonT]

77. Pshaw, I only recognize one space emperor

[greytdemocrat]

133. So be it...

LOL!

[WatsonT]

137. Cower before the Imperial Sardaukar!

Ok, they look kinda like italian chefs with a cosplay fetish but they're supposed to be pretty tough.

And if that doesn't do it, Naked Sting:

[Desertrose]

81. Disclosure is coming more & more into the mainstream.......

Doubt we'll have to wait 20 years.......

[Motown_Johnny]

84. Entirely baseless, unless he knows when some ETs launched and how fast they travel

how can he try to estimate when they will arrive?


This is right up there with The Rapture occurring last month.

[yawnmaster]

123. It's been fun all. Got to go for now. My evening k-pax call is coming in soon...

And I have to grab it...long distance rates are terrible.

[dbt]

126. I applaud the absence of the Old Usual Suspects

in this thread.

The arrival of the New Usual Suspects is worthy of a K & R.

:bounce:

[Desertrose]

144. Heh

:rofl:




:hi: dbt :loveya:

[bobthedrummer]

211. You've been here for quite awhile dbt

:hi:

[sudopod]

127. Jesus was an alien. nt

[derby378]

128. And when the aliens arrive, they'll want three things...

Coffee, apple pie, and Chuck Berry.

[Auntie Bush]

132. If aliens ever come here...give them Palin and Bachman.

They'll never want to return.

[snooper2]

141. I read about this in 1843

I'll explain how in just a bit :rofl:

[AnnieBW]

143. As Long As They're Not Daleks

They're mean little exterminators.

[nadinbrzezinski]

148. That means the doctor is coming though

:-)

[WatsonT]

152. But they never seem to win

not in the long run at least.

[Initech]

145. The question is - what kind of aliens?

The peaceful ones from Close Encounters?

The third-world slum species from District 9?

The blow-shit-up and destroy mankind aliens from Independence Day, Battle LA, Falling Skies, and so on?

Remains to be seen.

[JackDragna]

149. Uh huh.

The same woo we've always seen. Wonder how long it'll be before he's on Coast to Coast.

[humblebum]

"he said, adding that aliens would most likely resemble humans with two arms, two legs and a head"

Why would he make a statemnt such as that? Would he expect they like to eat pizza too?

[WatsonT]

153. Most likely the aliens would prefer thin crust

although stuffed crusts also will appeal to their senses.

[nadinbrzezinski]

161. Because this is quite standard these days

among xeno biologists, and for good evolutionary reasons. I am willing to go out on a limb and say that any advanced being will also have an opposable thumb.

[yawnmaster]

189. maybe two or three opposable thumbs even. I'm guessing one set of compound eyes...

and one set of regular eyes. And by set I mean three of each.
Also, they will have antennae. Not sure why, but pretty sure they will.
They will either have only one sex and reproduce by sharing genetic material through a prehensile penis-like organ, or they will have three sexes, one being the carrier for the other two sexes, yet will have a very low intelligence. This is due to a billion years of evolution.
They will also communicate at frequencies above what we can hear. This way they can put out more information per second.
Yes, they will be able to carry on many conversations at once.
They will enjoy gossip.
Yet they will hate reality shows.

Of these things I am almost certain.

[humblebum]

151. "he said, adding that aliens would most likely resemble humans with two arms, two legs and a head"

Why would he make a statemnt such as that? Would he expect they like to eat pizza too?

[nadinbrzezinski]

162. Because this is now standard thought

among xeno biologists... I will go out on a limb and claim they will also have opposable thumbs.

[NeedleCast]

154. It's the "Special Generation" Idea that Fundies So Love

Everyone loves to believe that their (our) generation is the specail one that is living in the end days, or going to encounter aliens, or going to witness the end of the Earth.

There's no more evidence that we'll encounter intelligent life in the next two decades than there is for the two decades after that, or that there was for the two decades prior.

In short, this is dumb.

[nadinbrzezinski]

165. Seveal points that need to be made

1.- The Search for alien life is now an active pursuit at places like oh NASA, using multiple systems... so that raises the statistical chance that we will find life soon, in historical terms, quite a bit from zero.

2.- Life by what scientists define is not george, let's call him george, coming down from his interstellar ship to say hi to needlecast or obama or the left handed widget. Life, as in alien life, could be (and most likely will be) something like a Paramecium, that can self divide and reproduce. I hope you have a microscope to say hi.

3.- This is not the special generation bullshit, just happens to be a SCIENTIFIC PURSUIT... and one that we embarked really... as early as the 1920s... the TECHNOLOGY right now is reaching the point where we will be able to do for planetary atmospheres what we have been doing for STARS for decades, which may seem like magic to you... read their atmospheres. No, it is not magic... I could even explain this to you, but I am afraid it is biblical in nature.

4.- We can actually find if we have ACTUAL paramecium like creatures well within my life time in this system. One of Jupiter's moons has a salt ocean... yes made of water, liquid water... aka the solvent of life under current biological knowledge, No, I do not expect those probes to find George sailing that ocean blue, nor does the scientific community. And yes, forty years, my lifetime, is quite appropriate time frame for a jovian probe. It took less than 20 for Voyager, the planets just have to line right for the Stellar Mechanics needed. Nor are these missions that expensive either... much cheaper than a fleet of B1 B bombars by the way.

5.- And yes the earth is coming to an end... in about 4.5 billion years from now, Earth may have another billion years as a cadillac planet... if we make it that far, hardly... evolution is against it, we will need to find a new home OFF sol.

6.- No, this is not special generation bullshit, those of us who understand the HISTORY OF SCIENCE, understand that every generation has been special by your logic, since every generation has made an important leap in knowledge that advanced our understanding of the world. I will content though that this will be up there with writing or fire... and will cause a severe case of doubt among at least three revealed religions. For them it may very well be the "end of the world."

[FLPanhandle]

155. Bullshit.

What a wacko.

[Maru Kitteh]

196. +1

[Eddie Haskell]

204. Feeling threatened, Earth man?

:-)

[muriel_volestrangler]

156. Is there a link to his original statement anywhere? It seems he said 'find', not 'encounter'

and that, of course, may have been translated from Russian as well.

To 'find' extraterrestrial life may mean to detect the signs in, for instance, the spectrum of a planet - so he may be saying the telescopes will be good enough to do that for earth-like planets in 20 years. Or he may be saying we'll detect the radio signals of an advanced civilisation. 'Encounter' implies a physical meeting - which he may not be claiming; that may be the interpretation of Interfax or Reuters.

[sofa king]

157. That article could have been written by Criswell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_DEtfvv9MU

(Or Ed Wood.)

[newspeak]

159. I remember watching Independence Day

where the BAD aliens were going to take all of our resources on earth and I had a good laugh thinking that we already had the locust corporations.

Maybe they'll come like in Star Trek IV (?) except save all of the ocean mammals before we destroy ourselves. Of course, if they need a human specimen, I'm available-"Beam me up Scotty."

I think that the scientific community considers every bit of bacterium from outer space as "alien", so it doesn't necessary mean a higher intelligent life form.

[sofa king]

160. It's all fun and games right now.

The idea that life is as inevitable as atoms is one I'd like to believe, but unless someone is holding back or there is something I don't know (quite possible) we simply don't yet have the ability to confirm that hypothesis. Our focus of observation is becoming increasingly good in that direction, so it's a good guess that we're not far away from finding life.

But that was also a good guess twenty years ago, and twenty years before that, and twenty years before that.

If the aliens do show up, I'm sure they'll have a coherent message for us.

[nadinbrzezinski]

163. BINGO!

any form of life NOT from this earth IS alien...

[Javaman]

164. since we're pulling shit out of our asses today...

Hell, I say we will not only contact aliens within 20 years, but the next massive controversy will be marrying them.

Not only that, we will find that eating their young will be the next best thing to tater tots! (thanks Futurama)

[Ganja Ninja]

166. I'm not saying it can't happen but ...

I don't see why it would be any more likely to happen 20 years from now then it would be to happen tomorrow or 200 years from now.

[nadinbrzezinski]

171. Because the deep space sensors will be able

to give us very good info on xeno planetary atmospheres in that time frame.

By the way, most scientists do not expect george to come off a ship and say hi. Evidence of life, as in bacterial life... qualifies as alien life.

I suspect once the sensors are up in atmosphere we will find life bearing atmospheres "out there," and that will be fairly soon. THere are three probes in line for launch that will allow us to see if there are those atmospheres out there... so a lot of this will have to be by inference, which am afraid will not be enough to the SHOW ME the alien crowd.

Of course there is this little moon around Jupiter, no, not Europa... that seems to have an ocean, as in water ocean... now that one... a probe in my lifetime is VERY POSSIBLE.

[Ganja Ninja]

175. The poll is on whether or not we'll encounter extraterrestrial civilizations.

I have no doubt that we'll find alien microbial life in our own solar system within 20 years.

[nadinbrzezinski]

179. If the predictions from Frank Drake are corect

On the low end no we won't, mostly due to stellar distances and average life span of a given civilization. On the high end...just a matter of time.

Hey I could play the fiction idea that we will when we mature to the pont we are worthy of joining the insert here stellar organizations.

This is belief... It is most likely in-between and contact will be somewhat sketchy and hard to prove to most folks because of faith and stellar distances.

[jberryhill]

167. Well, good then. No need to argue. Just sit and wait 20 years /nt

[brooklynite]

169. The headline is misleading...

"The genesis of life is as inevitable as the formation of atoms ... Life exists on other planets and we will find it within 20 years,"

This is a potentially reasonable assumption (recognizing that I don't have access to information to detect biological signs of life from a distance); however, "finding" life is not what is implied by "Alien Encounters".

[nadinbrzezinski]

172. Yeap sloppy headline writing

of course alien encounters also means a bacteria...

[JuniperLea]

173. Why are so many people so afraid...

Of there actually being life elsewhere? I think it very arrogant to assume there are no other life forms in the Cosmos, and I think it near mathematically impossible that there isn't. It could be a microscopic germ for all we know, it could be anything... not all life MUST be as we see it here on this planet.

Hey, I'm still wonky over the Vatican saying it's cool with them if you want to believe in extraterrestrial life!

[FLPanhandle]

174. There being life elsewhere is not the same as making contact with intelligent life.

Most life in the universe is probably at the bacterial level.

[JuniperLea]

176. I never mentioned intelligent life...

And I'm quite sure the bacterial or microbial level is where the most extraterrestrial life is. Probably is a key word, IMHO. There is probably intelligent life elsewhere, and that life could very well be unlike anything we know and hardly recognizable as life at all.

This is where I part ways with a lot of people on this issue. It seems to me that a lot of people can't wrap their minds around life, intelligent or otherwise, that is drastically different from our own. So they argue with a carbon based blueprint in their minds and their is no swaying them at all.

[nadinbrzezinski]

177. Cyanide...mono lake

Just last year or two ago... Them critters are yes...alien

:-)

And if life rose twice on planet earth....

I am with you... At this point the fear is ontological.

Also people are mostly having issues on how small we really are... In the whole expanse of the multiverse... Quarks really...

And this is not a matter of belief...but science... We will find that evidence in my lifetime either way... Mathematically we will find evidence of life i suspect. It is the natural evolution of almost 100 years of technological evolution.

[FLPanhandle]

181. I think most people are okay with the concept of other life out there.

Of course there is a lot of religious believers out there.

[JuniperLea]

182. Well, he said we will have no other God before him...

But he never promised we were the only people.

[Eddie Haskell]

207. Even the Catholic Church believes in aliens.

:applause:

[WatsonT]

183. Disputing a fabricated timeline for meeting possible intelligent life =! being afraid of it

If someone were to say that it will snow here in Texas next week I would disagree with that statement.

I am not however afraid of snow.

[JuniperLea]

195. Not even a close strawman there, my dear WatsonT...

I never said disputing the timeline = being afraid of it. Please try to keep up and stick to the conversation.

[WatsonT]

200. The thread is about a fictitious timeline

the only people complaining are those who belief that timeline is bogus.

Your response is "why are people afraid of . . "

There is really only one way to translate your screed.

[lumberjack_jeff]

185. It ain't a matter of fear. It's a matter of a complete lack of evidence.

The moon has been around for 4 billion years. The only footprints on it are human.

Any civilization in the last 500 million years would have considered the earth an irresistably fascinating place to visit.

Fermi was right. "Where is everyone"?

[JuniperLea]

194. You assume much...

"Any civilization in the last 500 million years would have considered the earth an irresistably fascinating place to visit."

Wow... do you know for a fact that the technology exists nowhere in the Cosmos that would allow a being from another planet to remotely view us? No, you don't. Again, you are basing your wild assumptions on what we know, and we don't know much of anything.

[lumberjack_jeff]

198. Having it both ways

"Only a luddite would believe that we're alone. They don't leave any evidence of their existence at all only because we're too dumb to listen to their subspace messages or tardis traffic. The universe is crawling with ETs but they're hiding - but not like Santa Claus is hiding, haha, he's just a myth."

It's not incumbent on me to prove that there are no ET's in the universe. It's up to the believers to prove there are.

For all practical purposes, "there are no ET's" and "ET is so far from us that we'll never interact" are the same thing.

The technology exists on *this* planet to remotely view another. There's only one EM spectrum. The babble from the earth would be impossible to miss by anyone within 70 light years. Telescopes are scouring the galaxy (so far unsuccessfully) for planets with an O2 atmosphere.

[yawnmaster]

187. Not fear. No evidence. Anything regarding life is just a belief...

Plus, if there is intelligent life, it doesn't matter as we can't have any relationship with them.
No visiting, no conversations, only, possibly, and this is also remote, the knowledge that some exists.

If not intelligent, but only life, again not much we can do with it, other than have the knowledge of its existence.
Unless it is in this solar system, then we may be able to do something with it, but haven't seen any yet.

Nothing to be afraid about being unique.

[JuniperLea]

193. This really makes no sense at all...

What evidence do you have that "... we can't have any relationship with them. No visiting, no conversations, only, possibly, and this is also remote, the knowledge that some exists."

That sounds to me to be exactly what I'm talking about... assumptions based solely on what we know. News flash... we don't know much of anything in the big picture.

And the last assumption, that there's not much we can do with unintelligent live forms. Are you kidding me? Again, based on what? For all we know there are cures for diseases lurking in said lifeforms. We don't know squat, but you're willing to toss out assumptions based on nothing?

You're right though... you don't need to be afraid if you believe you are unique. So have at it. It's called fear, this oddity you feel that causes you to make wild assumptions, but whatever.

[Eddie Haskell]

208. He's right. It's morally indefensible.

We just supposed to study your asses.

[lumberjack_jeff]

199. Actually, being unique is scary as hell.

If this is the only place in the galaxy on which chemical processes created something which could contemplate those processes, the fate of life in the universe is our responsibility.

[lumberjack_jeff]

184. I'll take some of that action.

$500 says that he's wrong. We won't encounter extraterrestrial civilizations.

[Baclava]

186. The aliens are coming to impregnate our earth women?

Death to the off-world scum! Where's Duke Nukem.

[yawnmaster]

188. Actually, aliens may very well impregnate men! what do we know of their ways?? eom

[NastyNate]

197. They're already here...

One is a senator in Vermont actually!

[bobthedrummer]

212. Welcome to DU NastyNate!

:fistbump:

[deacon]

203. They'll all be onstage at the next GOP debate. n/t