I just got the sh*t beat out of me.

[Snoutport]

I'm scratched, bruised and my shirt is completely torn open. The next time you hear someone tell you teachers don't get paid enough I want you to share my story. I earn every damned penny of my whopping $40,000 salary.

One of my students blew out today. He punched my assistant in the face and when I intervened he went after me with every bit of strength in his body. He hit me with a pencil sharpener and then grabbed a sharpened pencil like a knife and came at me. I backed across the room and he kept lunging and stabbing at me. I tossed a chair in his way and in that moment of distraction, went for his arm.

In my mind there were two movies playing--one reviewing the training I have had in the accepted "legal" way of protecting myself and, at the same time, a picture of that pencil getting stabbed into my arm. Most humans, if threatened by being stabbed would be thinking of themselves. As a teacher you don't have that luxury. If I injure a student protecting myself it will be front page news and I might be out of a job AND still have a danged pencil sticking out of my arm.

But I was able to catch his hand. He was pummeling me with his free hand, trying to hit me in the face but my assistant and I finally got the pencil out of his hand. The student probably has 85 pounds on my assistant but I have him by 20 lbs. We then spent the next hour and a half being hit, kicked, scratched, spit on, head-butted, bit at, cursed at, pinched and pretty much thoroughly beaten. He threw his shoes, furniture, ripped my shirt and used pretty much every filthy word I have ever heard.

When his parent showed up his first question was whether he was still going to get to go out to dinner tonight. My guess is, as I sit here beat up, he is out eating Teriyaki Tuesday.

Since it is part of his disability I can't suspend him either. So I just have to hope tomorrow goes better.

The worst part is my hubby will be home in a bit and he is going to see the bruises and scratches. The look on his face when I come home like this is always the worst. It scares him and I hate to be the cause of that. He won't ask what happened and I'll just pretend I'm not bleeding. It will be a quiet evening without much of our usual laughing and goofing around.

God, I hope tomorrow is an easier day.

[LiberalLoner]

1. Holy shit, I hope tomorrow is an easier day for you too! Yikes. Thank you for

what you do, BTW. I'm sorry this happened to you today.

[roguevalley]

sweetie, I hug you. I know what you went through. I have had kids

I could not turn my back on and the threat to harm me was real. I've stared down kids bigger than me and been bounced around by their parents. I hug you. Big hugs. See your union. You have rights too.

[roguevalley]

155. sweetie, I hug you. I know what you went through. I have had kids

I could not turn my back on and the threat to harm me was real. I've stared down kids bigger than me and been bounced around by their parents. I hug you. Big hugs. See your union. You have rights too.

[liberalmike27]

220. Someone tries to stab you

The "Rules," go out the window. Remember that. Pick up something, whack him over the head until he stops, then deal with the consequences of him threatening your life, later.

[Aerows]

225. I couldn't be a teacher for just that reason

Someone threatens my person, and everything, including the law flies out the window in favor of protecting myself. I have several years of experience taking Tae Kwon Do, and I would not hesitate to use it. It should be mandatory for teachers to take self-defense and martial arts. It likely would have save my sister a broken foot.

[bluestateguy]

270. Indeed

Someone tries to stab me or kill me, and my right to self-defense takes precedence.

Someone else can do the psychoanalysis and give the attacker hugs and understanding.

[Scuba]

2. Glad you're safe. Thanks for your cool head....

...I wonder how many corporate executives were attacked today. I'll bet you weren't the only teacher.

[Snoutport]

4. lol!!

OMG...you just got me laughing out loud. :0) I totally pictured a CEO in his office fending off a crazed secretary with a pencil. Very funny picture. :0)

[notesdev]

3. Say what??

"Since it is part of his disability I can't suspend him either."

A potentially fatal assault lasting 90 minutes and you can't suspend him? What kind of nonsense is this? Disability or no, a dangerous individual is a dangerous individual.

Even if they don't give a shit about you, the teacher, what about the other students who could also become targets of such an assault?

[Snoutport]

33. Those kids that get kicked out of school still have to go somewhere

and they come to me. They don't just disappear. I know what I got myself into...just some days are harder than others.

[eilen]

90. two words: Home School

he can get a tutor at home for an hour a day. Bullshit. you need this like a hole in the head. You need combat pay.

[Snoutport]

133. combat pay would be great!

truthfully though, this was just a bad day. I really like my class and my job.

Foster kid too with paid staff--school district's responsibility by day, foster/state responsibility at night. That's how it works these days.

[bobhuntsman]

197. Two Words: Hand Cuffs!!

[MyrnaLoy]

163. I agree 100%

90 minutes and you didn't call the police to restrain the student? Weird.

[Snoutport]

200. The parent was there as well

The student would calm, then escalate, calm, escalate. It wasn't constant restraining--that wouldn't be OK. But we also couldn't put him in a car worked up, he had to be calm.

I followed the exact protocol that my supervisor told me to follow. But, we deal with severe kids--it is part of the job.

[WatsonT]

185. "other students who could also become targets of such an assault"

We have to cater to the worst behaved kids at the expense of everyone else because the real problem children tend to have parents that are the quickest to sue.

[TicketyBoo]

262. My son was shuffled

into an alternative school in 7th grade because he was the subject of bullying by a dozen or more kids. They had room for him in the alternative school; they didn't have room for a dozen kids, so in he went. He thrived in the atmosphere of stringent discipline of alternative school. He was taking community college night classes at the time.

[Aerows]

228. Sorry - smells like bullshit to me

My sister is a teacher at an inner-city school, and she HAS been injured by a student. She's very small, like me, and female, but she wouldn't put up with this - and didn't. She moved to teaching first grade instead of sixth grade.

You can't teach wild animals, and expecting to teach them, unless you know that's what you are teaching going in, is a losing proposition.

I'm not sure what I'd recommend for a wild animal that attempted to stab me with a pencil, but it isn't going to be schooling. It's going to be something along the lines of learning how to function in society, or getting confined to a cage.

I know that's not a popular position around here, but when people get into violent threats, I'm not particularly polite.

[msongs]

5. hour and a half? what did your administrators do when they came rushing to your room? nt

[Snoutport]

15. We were on our own on this one-

we work with severe behavior issues. I have had MUCH worse days than this!

[bear425]

218. You have no button to ring the front office or security

available to you in your classroom? If that's the case, you need to get that rectified immediately. Every classroom I've worked in, even portable classrooms, had one. I'm sorry that you experienced this.

[Left coast liberal]

6. OMG!

Man you teachers work your asses off.

If it was up to me I would triple your salary.

Hang in there, sister!

XO

[lumberjack_jeff]

24. He's a brother, but 3x salary is about right.

:hi:

[Snoutport]

35. Thanks for standing up for my masculinity mr lumberjack!

I got a chuckle out of it though. :0)

[Snoutport]

36. :0) sorry...the hubby part probably confused you. :0)

I'm a dude, dude!

[enough]

7. Last weekend I was at my 45th college reunion. One of my classmates was recovering

from two broken ribs which she suffered during a fight between two of her sixth-grade students. She is a small woman but very active and physically competent, and has been teaching for many years.

She is also a devoted compassionate teacher who feels no anger at the kids because she knows literally "where they are coming from."

[Snoutport]

27. I have women on my staff

and have seen them take punches and kicks and, HAIRPULLING that just makes my eyes water seeing.

But, I really hate seeing women get hit. I grew up in a home where the rule was "a man NEVER raises his hand to a woman" so to see it happen just freaks me out.

Even though I am 100% a believer that the women I work with (and my mom) are the toughest people I've ever met and I know they can take it. But, I guess, the gentleman in me feels like a total failure if the women I'm in charge of get hit. It is a strange reaction.

I have noticed though the men I work with and the women react afterwards very differently. The women go and talk about how they feel, kinda dote on the person who got hit, the guys talk about the details of what happened and thank each other for having each other's backs-they laugh it off.

Your friend with the broken ribs is a new hero of mine.

[kentuck]

Damn!

Where's the combat pay??

[underseasurveyor]

46. Dayum straight!

That's what I'm talkin' about :thumbsup:

40k is not nearly enough for what snoutport does even without the occasional beating.

[lifesbeautifulmagic]

8. Holy Crap!

hope you are ok, and the student, at least, gets some sort of isolated supervision, if he has to still be in school.

Man, I just can't believe the stuff our teachers have to go through.

[Siwsan]

9. Wow! Puts my day into perspective, that's for sure

My Dad was in education - a teacher, a football coach and a principal. He was threatened, more than once, by parents, but I don't think a student ever actually went after him.

[eridani]

140. If a student ever had gone after him, he'd have been sent to--

--someone like Snoutport.

[LiberalAndProud]

10. My middle school granddaughter showed me her yearbook last weekend.

She pointed to the picture of one teacher and said, "That's the teacher who got knifed in the leg."

Knifed in the leg by a middle school student. :heavy sigh:
Teachers should get hazard pay.

[Snoutport]

29. Wow... that is a sad commentary on your daughter's experience.

Wow. I've been lucky....I've had a couple BUTTER knives drawn on me. Usually it is pencils though. YIKES! I really hate pencils. I got stabbed in the thumb and have a stupid lead mark under my skin all these years later. It is a reminder that a freshly sharpened pencil is a really nasty pointy weapon.

[LiberalAndProud]

41. The student was clearly disturbed.

The knife never made it into the building. The incident took place on the school grounds. The teacher was intervening because the girl had voiced her intention to kill someone. No one knows who the intended victim was.

Some teachers are heroes. This was one of them.

[Snoutport]

50. A teacher has a contract with the parents to watch out for their kids

We promise to take the parent's place and be an advocate/mentor/protector of their kids.

It is an agreement that teachers take seriously and one of the reasons the latest attacks on teachers are so hard to understand. Some of us go through hell for other people's children.

[galileoreloaded]

Ya know, cops have NO statutory responsibility to save a life,

only to respond. Me thinks our priorities are fucked.

I hope we can unfuck ourselves.

[aikoaiko]

11. Harrowing tale. What population do you teach?

:shrug:

[Snoutport]

43. I have some severe behavior issues going on--part of the job

[Motown_Johnny]

12. you need a bigger teacher's assistant

I hope you really are O.K., have you been checked out? You should be you know.

[Snoutport]

31. Kid's stuff

I got to have the classroom equivalent of triage...hand sanitizer poured in my skin while I'm getting the first aid kit.

I'm in pretty good shape and will watch and tend my wounds properly. :0) Thank you for the concern though!

[Motown_Johnny]

89. it still doesn't hurt to be checked out by a professional

This has to fall into some worker's compensation claim, it happened at work.


I would be more worried about an internal injury than the scrapes. Sometimes you don't notice them right away.


I will trust your judgment in the matter but if there is a school nurse or something it can't hurt to be looked at. Maybe a tetanus shot is due, who knows?

[PCIntern]

13. an hour and a half?

that's longer than the Ali-Frazier fights for crying out loud...you have to go back to the bare-knuckles guys to see one of those...

God help you...

[Snoutport]

70. It wasn't all hands on

We would step away but then it would start up again.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Snoutport]

42. Stay calm Oasis... the kids you are talking about are the kids I teach

Those guys don't just disappear and they still need to know how to read and write and have skills to take care of themselves.

I love my job and amazing things happen that I am immensely proud of. :0) Just some days are tougher than others.

[Oasis_]

I'll defer to your expertize on the subject

Snoutport, but I'm just being perfectly honest when I tell you I don't believe all children (or people in general) are redeemable, and those that exhibit this type of violent, anti-social behavior should be locked away from society.

I commend you for your effort and sincerely hope you're able to continue your vitally important work free from the violent behavior the administration has seemingly made a part of the job description.

Be well.

Oasis

[knitter4democracy]

99. You're talking about my students, too, and you're wrong.

Many turn around with another chance, a safe place to learn, and people who believe in them (and help them get meds).

[Snoutport]

154. I have seen amazing turn arounds!

THey make it all worth while!

[knitter4democracy]

252. We had one this year who still makes me shake my head.

He was awful, just awful. Threatened me and lied about it, lied about everything, was just plain scary. Our secretary refused to let the admins kick him out and fought tooth and nail to get him meds. It was night and day. His handwriting was so different that I wouldn't have known it was his work if his name hadn't been on all the papers and I hadn't seen him write them. His writing voice was entirely different--it was like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.

We have seen seriously amazing turn-arounds this year with meds. Getting a kid the right help can do wonders.

[underseasurveyor]

16. Is there no restraint system?

I mean when someone like this gets out of hand they need to be restrained so they don't hurt anyone or themselves until they either calm down or the parents get there... or both.

God I'm glad you're ok. You are ok right?
((((HUG))))

[Snoutport]

47. We are trained every year on legal restraints and must pass courses

Very strict rules about how we can restrain students and it is a last case scenario for me to ever touch a student. Usually I can good humor them out of a stressful situation.

[underseasurveyor]

71. You have the patients of a thousand saints then.

Along with thick skin and nerves of steel.

Here :beer: on me.

[whathehell]

17. You shouldn't have to put up with this....This is crazy.

He's effing dangerous.

[Le Taz Hot]

18. Good goddess!!

I'm stunned that you are EXPECTED to take a beating for 90 minutes. I take it you're working with developmentally and/or emotionally-challenged students. A friend of mine used to do that. She lasted one school year before she declared, "never again." Healing white light to you.

[lumberjack_jeff]

19. I'm sorry Snoutport.

Judging from your posts, I infer that your classroom has a high concentration of kids with really difficult disabilities.

Have you and your assistants had any luck identifying triggers? If punishment works to control the behavior then I hope the parent will follow through, but sometimes it just makes the behavior worse.

Also, is there a possibility of bringing in a bigger assistant or two?

As you've said, for some kids, the silly/funny approach you've described is really effective at reaching them. For other kids... I have a teacher friend who's motto is "don't smile before Christmas break". He feels that it helps to set the proper boundaries and expectations.

You probably don't want advice, but I'm afraid it's my default setting. Advice and sympathy are not mutually exclusive.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Warren DeMontague]

21. "Since it is part of his disability"- what 'disability' lets him assault people w/o consequence??

Sorry, I don't care what excuse someone has, if they're violent and a danger to others they need to be incarcerated or institutionalized. If they don't get better, do it for good.

[Snoutport]

62. Even if you put them all in institutions they'd STILL have teachers. And I'm that guy

[eilen]

91. But at least there are security guards with tasers.. nt

[me b zola]

120. i've worked with severely disabled twins that were huge and would regularly attack staff

Many of my coworkers suffered severe injuries like broken bones.

I've also worked with geriatric patients who become violent when confused and scared. Many, many low paid people get beat up on a regular basis at work. No one cares enough to pay those workers well.

[Snoutport]

153. thanks for the back up!

[me b zola]

158. I'm so sorry this happened to you

And it happens so often, but no one ever hears about it. I don't blame the patients, but it would at least help if we were recognized, respected, and compensated for this hard work.

[Gregorian]

22. Several things just don't sound right. An hour of fighting? And your job description.

It almost sounds like your job includes being beaten up. I've read that you are working with very difficult "cases". But what about YOUR safety? I mean, the school has a liability here. If that kid had killed you, how would that have worked out for them?

And you have to face him again?

Wow. I guess I do have an ego. I call myself a pacifist, but I can feel my blood pressure rising as I walk into that room the next day, and face the kid going at me again.


Now that I've read a few replies after mine, I'm thinking of Stand And Deliver. There must be hope. There IS hope. That must be a really difficult challenge for you. I'd love to know how to crack that kid's code. Having physical problems could make things impossible. But I don't think so. Education isn't a by-the-numbers kind of thing. People are complex. I like the idea that something can work.

[CreekDog]

53. they don't sound quite right do they?

:shrug:

[Snoutport]

56. ....

Hey there--you know those kids that even fell through the cracks in "Stand and Deliver"? I'm where those kids go. My students often lack the ability to have self control.

My last classroom before this job was an "autism behavior" classroom. The 12 least socialized kids with autism you ever met. I like tough jobs and I like making successes out of students nobody else understood.

But some days are worthy of a post. Most days are boring.

[Jefferson23]

80. Thank goodness they have you and not someone who does not

appreciate their situation. I imagine their parents do appreciate you, at least I hope so.

Kudos to a great teacher.

[Snoutport]

82. I have good relationships with my parents. They know their kids are tought

Almost all my students are foster kids--Saints who have taken in the city's toughest kids. I bend over backwards to support them and they do the same for me. :0)

[Jefferson23]

84. Excellent group you hang with Snoutport..beautiful actually. n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

97. Do they know you post their kids' stories on the internet?

I have the same job you do. I think I've been at it a lot longer than you have and could write a book of stories like this. But I won't. And I don't tell these stories on DU either. I respect my kids and their right to privacy while they struggle through some pretty tough lives.

Don't misunderstand me. I feel your pain. Probably more than anyone else responding to you here, I understand what you deal with in your classroom every day. But I consider what you are doing here on DU not only unprofessional but also unfair to your students.

I wish you'd think about that for a minute. :hug:

[lumberjack_jeff]

114. You and Snoutport have my utmost respect.

But the responses in this thread lead me to conclude that you're right.

There are obviously many people, even self-described liberals, that would be happy to send the "monsters" and "subhuman animals" to a dungeon or worse at the earliest possible opportunity.

It isn't just the privacy issue, it's the fact that although unintended, stories like this cultivate exactly the kind of bigotry that you fight every day.

[proud2BlibKansan]

118. Yes, that's another aspect to my problem with this.

But what bothers me the most is this is an egregious violation of privacy. It's really unfair to his kids.

You'd hope we all learned a lesson from Weinergate. :)

[Goblinmonger]

121. I understand you point, but I don't think this is a privacy violation.

I have no idea what school this is and even if I did, I have no idea who the kid is. Names weren't given at any level. Maybe I'm missing something--could be brain dead from grading American Lit essays!

[proud2BlibKansan]

127. Legally probably not.

Ethically though, you bet it is. :hi:

[Snoutport]

145. So a teacher can't say they got hit and beat up out of respect for the kid?

Regardless, I've asked Skinner to pull the plug on my account and delete my writings out of the possibility that it could cause harm.

I'd rather err on the side of my students than on my right to share my experience.

[proud2BlibKansan]

162. I wouldn't do it.

[AtheistCrusader]

182. You've given enough details that the parent might recognize this post.

Joe schmoe might not be able to figure out who you are, but a parent or co-worker from your school might put two and two together, if they read DU.

[a2liberal]

183. Please don't delete

I know I don't really have the qualifications to comment on the ethics but I personally don't see anything wrong. These stories do need to be shared... we can't keep this entire population of students in the shadows forever as if they don't exist. I think that (pretending they don't exist) would be more disrespectful to them. And you are doing it anonymously. I know I was especially moved by the story (I think yours, not 100% sure) about the student who started communicating for the first time, and then all the stories in the replies to that.

[lumberjack_jeff]

202. My opinion, fwiw

I am concerned about the way this thread went, but that is not your fault. The "I don't believe you's" put you in the position of feeling the need to provide more and more detail.

I've been around enough sped classrooms that I don't doubt the story at all, but I am surprised and troubled by the reaction. I think that knowing what reaction to expect should influence how much to share in the future.

I hope that Skinner does NOT pull the plug on your account. You're a valued contributor.

[ProfessorGAC]

184. You're Overreaching

There's is nothing unethical about this description of this event. My wife did the same kind of work as the two of you. These sorts of eruptions aren't terribly uncommon in BD and ED classes, and the names are private. But, not knowing which school and which kid makes this not only legal but ethical as well. Unless one is going out of one's way to find fault.
GAC

[Pacifist Patriot]

195. Confidentiality is a huge part of my profession....

and I'm not seeing a violation here.

[ProfessorGAC]

234. Completely Agree

GAC

[Smarmie Doofus]

206. Privacy? I don't get that. No names, no identifying information.

What are you seeing here that I'm not?

[Snoutport]

143. I think I have to agree with you. I want people to know teachers are going through this stuff

but how do you do it without telling your story?

[lumberjack_jeff]

213. I honestly don't know.

It is apparent that pointing out through anecdote that some kids with developmental disabilities can be aggressive triggers a "taze the undisciplined subhuman monsters" reaction.

Reading the thread also suggests that people who jumped to the conclusion that you're a woman had a stronger Don Quixote reaction. I think female sped teachers learn quickly to understate events among acquaintances to avoid that rescue instinct. Cops! Dungeons! Duct Tape! Handcuffs! Jail! Kill!

In second grade, my son threw a matchbox car across the classroom, accidentally hitting his favorite paraeducator in the lip, drawing blood.

Thanks to the patience of her and the other teachers (whom I would gladly take a bullet for) he is now a well adjusted kid who spends 100% of his time in the general ed classroom, is in band and intends to run cross country in 7th grade next year.

Some sped kids can be aggressive or even violent, but the only way out is the way you're doing it. People who don't live there can't understand - the punishment model doesn't work.

ABA works.

[madrchsod]

23. special needs kids?

[Snoutport]

64. yup

[CaliforniaPeggy]

25. My god!

Hugs to you, for your selflessness!

Please take care.

I hope the student stays home tomorrow.

:hug:

[Eddie Haskell]

26. Screw the rules, protect yourself and call the police.

Is the kid on meds? Who administers his meds? Was he given his meds today?
You have rights too.

[ejpoeta]

28. first of all, i am sorry that you had to go through with that. secondly, i have a daughter with

ADHD and while she has never attacked a teacher like that, she has thrown a book in the general direction of the principal once and shoved a teacher. i did not find out about it until the parent teacher conference. if i had believe you me i would have not let it stand. as a parent i do not tolerate any such nonsense. my daughter would have meltdowns and she would pull at students who cut in line and try to move them i guess out of in front of her and get into altercations and i had a zero tolerance. i hope the parents of that kid do, though i have to say i doubt it. he should not be in that environment as he could seriously harm a teacher or another student and if the school doesn't care about the teachers they should be concerned about a lawsuit from another student's parent at the very least. this kid needs to be somewhere where he can get supervised help. a mental facility i'd guess. some medication and behavioral modification. i had to do a lot of work to get my daughter to where she is right now. a lot of hard work of rewards and taking things away. and we are still working at it.

[Snoutport]

65. We are the supervised help :0)

I'm the guy with the kids who can't be at regular school. Part of the job.

[tova]

67. parent of "one of those kids"

"Zero consequences" does not work for every kid. As the parent of a high functioning autistic child who can be violent (he goes to a special school because of his behavior) I am sickened by all of the suggestions here about putting the child away and blaming the parents. I doubt there would be room in all of our countries institutions for every autistic kid who has been challenging. We certainly have rules for our kids and expect them to be followed but we also have had to learn that our son is not your typical child nor will he always act according to societal norms. But he is also a very intelligent and sweet child most of the time. Hopefully the kid in the OP will become less violent with maturity as sometimes occurs with disabled individuals.

[Snoutport]

78. THank you very much for being kind about my student

The end of school is very stressful on some kids. Thank you for knowing he is deserving of hope. :0)

[eilen]

93. I know I sound harsh. But seriously, I have worked at a

psychiatric mental health ED and when patients lose control like that we take them down. We take them down before they can harm anyone or themselves. Then, after release (and some meds) they go to low stim. We don't keep people in restraints hardly-- well sometimes but not for long (we can't). However, we do have security to help as well. I guess you are security with a teaching cert. I'm glad I don't have that job anymore.

[Snoutport]

134. We use that same system

chill them out, step away, step in if they get violent again. This one just took a loooooong time.

[ejpoeta]

96. did i suggest zero consequences? i believe i said zero tolerance. i dealt with a kid who

hit me and spit on me and would pull my hair as i picked her up and carried her out of stores and other places. she never stabbed anyone with a pencil either. and when i see zero tolerance i really don't like that either. because that just doesn't make the school know these kids. or the situation. If this is a recurring theme and this kid is a danger to others, then yes... there needs to be something done. Obviously if they were there holding this kid down for an hour something is wrong. Measures need to be in place to prevent this situation in the first place. If kids with these problems are going to be mainstreamed, then there needs to be some system in place to protect teachers and students and also to protect these kids from themselves. Period. And as a parent who did everything I could to get my kid to behave and the stares, I can understand. But as a parent I also can say that if my daughter were that violent to other students, I would be considering alternatives. My daughter is exceptionally smart and perhaps this kid is. Who knows. But you can't stab people with pencils. That's assault. That gets you in jail. I know this. And no matter what learning disabilities you have, that is still assault and it won't matter when he's 25.

[Odin2005]

107. I'm a high-functioning autistic so I know what you are talking about.

I never get physically violent, but when I have a meltdown from sensory overload I get quite verbally aggressive. People jokingly called me Jekyll-and-Hyde. :-)

[hfojvt]

137. hmmm

Okay, I am thinking of myself as a high functioning autistic, but cannot imagine anything like a sensory overload incident. I have a temper, but doen't everyone?

But a meltdown? Sensory overload? Maybe I am wrong in my self-diagnosis and can go back to just being a geek and/or an INTJ.

[Odin2005]

138. If I am trapped in an overstimulating environment I get very snappy and grouchy, essentually.

I feel like I can't even "hear myself think" because my brain is so overwhelmed. You can tell when I'm overstimulated because I'll be rubbing my legs and rocking back and forth.

[Snoutport]

204. Thank you for your perspective

I always look forward to your posts!

[Odin2005]

233. Thanks!

:hug:

[lumberjack_jeff]

115. Welcome to DU

:hug:

[aquart]

30. Have you been able to do this kid any good?

And one assistant seems insufficient.

[Snoutport]

68. YES! Thank you for asking!

Three years of 99% success. This was just a really really bad day.

I have six assistants--amazing people :0)

[aquart]

161. Then have some chocolate. You earned it.

In junior high, my teachers saved my life. Long story. I won't tell it. My gratitude forever.

[Snoutport]

201. maybe you should tell it :0) we teachers need some props these days!

[Raine]

32. Good God, I'm just glad you survived the whole thing.

I think you could use a hug, wish I could do better. :hug:

[endless october]

34. hope that you are ok.

and thank you for being a teacher.

[Smarmie Doofus]

37. There are at least two or three assaults on teachers in my school every week.

We also get the " part of the disability" line. Then the admins play games w. the paperwork so the school doesn't end on the "persistently dangerous schools list."

People outside of education have no idea.

And the people who get their info from the school "reform" morons have *less* than no idea.

[Snoutport]

61. Thank you for being willing to share about this!

I get nervous sharing some of this but people don't realize how things are in this day and age. When Reagan closed the state hospitals all those locked up kids were sent into foster care at night and public school in the daytime. Violent kids as well.

I love my students but society is totally daft to think those violent kids disappear...they are in the public school system and teachers like me and the ones you are talking about take the brunt of their anger during the day.

[Smarmie Doofus]

169. Back at ya. Thanks for this thread.

Teaching is a lonely profession. Most of the time I'm tempted to say "you wouldn't understand" and let it go at that.

Good to see that there are a lot of folks... evidenced by most of the thread..... who do "get it."

My morale is boosted... just a bit... this morning.

Time to get out there again.

Good thread. Hope you'll be OK.

[knitter4democracy]

100. I'm so sorry your admins don't have your back.

I'm lucky to be in an alternative school where ours have our backs--most of the time. They don't always listen to us and don't always suspend someone who deserves it (needs the break, mostly), but they're good, especially when it comes to fights.

We're getting bigger next year (have to, budget-wise), and we're assuming that will mean more fights and assaults. Ugh.

[eridani]

146. Those who can, teach

Those who can't make laws about teaching.

[Maru Kitteh]

38. whoever unrecced this at the same time i recced it should go jam a pencil up their O-ring.

I'm glad you're OK Snoutport. Good god. I can't imagine.

:grouphug:

[Snoutport]

74. I have some lurkers who dislike me...i wrote a post on feeding kids and they unrecced me

Lol..If I can take a day like today at work, I can sure take an unreccing or two!

[bluestateguy]

39. We need to get the troublemakers out of the schools

I am more cynical than most. I do not believe every child can be saved, although most can. A few are just uneducateable and/or violent, rotten brats. It's not fair to teachers and the other kids that such students can ruin school for everybody else.

I'm talking no education, no school, no future. These students need to be given the ole' Principal Joe Clark heave ho.

[Goblinmonger]

124. Did you read the whole thread?

These kids did get the heave ho. Guess what? They don't just disappear into the ether when that happens. They have to go someplace. And that someplace is where the OP works.

[KittyWampus]

40. Letting this kid get away with violence means he'll do it to someone else & next time

he might have something sharper than a pencil.

[Army of Dawgness]

44. My wife is a teacher also.

Thankfully she's never had to deal with something as bad as you went through and I'm relieved beyond words you are OK.

She did get threatened (and my un-born child) while 6 months pregnant by a student. Hang in there.

[Snoutport]

83. Women teachers amaze me!

Toughest women I've ever met. You gotta be these days!

My guys are with me because of severe disabilities. Part of the job.

[kelly1mm]

45. You could call the police and have him charged with assault. My wife

has had to do that twice due to the school not being able to do anything (or thinking they can't) due to IEP's. The juvinile justice system has no such restrictions.

[alp227]

164. yeah, OP said this happened for nearly 90 minutes!

seems to be enough to need police intervention.

[Smarmie Doofus]

209. That doesn't work in NYC. Cops are hip to the IEP business...

... and use that as an excuse for not picking the kid up. ( Picking the kid up involves a truckload of paperwork for them. )

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Shagbark Hickory]

57. Yeah! Was this an after school brawl or something?

[Sonoman]

149. 30 seconds is one hell of a fight.

Goodness, Snoutport...

It just seems like a long time, when you are struggling.

Sonoman

[hedgehog]

49. THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE.

[rucky]

51. Not only the salary, but the union representation.

enjoy the mountain of paperwork ahead of you, but it's worth it. Something similar happened at a charter school I taught at, and the Intervention Specialist who took the brunt of the attack was canned immediately.

[InvisibleTouch]

52. Think about this:

From having read your posts, it sounds like you are working with lots of kids whom no one else wants to deal with, and you are doing them a lot of good. I'm guessing (might be wrong) that the majority are *not* violent like this. Why risk depriving the rest of them of your services over a few violent ones? IMO they should be removed to more secure facilities before they kill you (or another student), because otherwise what becomes of the others who rely on you as a teacher? Just my take on it. Hope you recover quickly!

[Brigid]

54. Your school deals with kids like this . . .

And there is no plan in place to deal with the kind of thing? That makes no sense. Somebody is going to get killed there one of these days.

[Snoutport]

151. It was not a typical day, I promise

but my class is where the toughest kids end up. We do see some difficult stuff.

[nolabear]

55. "The look on his face when I come home like this"??

How often does this happen? I gather from your use of the term "disability" that you teach children with special needs?

Why did this go on for an hour and a half? Can't you call for help?

How old is this boy?

[Shagbark Hickory]

58. I hope this K&R makes you feel a little better.

:kick:

[XemaSab]

59. Do you work for a public school

or some kind of "scared straight" program?

[Shagbark Hickory]

60. Also so comforting is that this troubled youth will be able to legally go and buy a gun soon.

If you thought the pencil was scary...

[Lifelong Protester]

63. At our school, the police would have been called, kid charged

disability and all.

He should not be in your class tomorrow, but if he is, I certainly hope it goes better. If I were your principal, you would not be seeing this kid tomorrow.

[cali]

66. I admire what you do. I sympathize, but I have to express

that I think you're overstating the extent of your injuries. To me when someone says "I got the shit beat out of me", it means that they are seriously injured. If that is so, you should have sought medical treatment. If not, I think it's probably better not to say that you had the shit beaten out of you.

And if this happens regularly as you seem to imply, I think there's something wrong with the classroom procedures dealing with this child.

In addition, and it's certainly understandable, you sound very angry and resentful of this kid. As I know you know, that's not optimum in the classroom.

I hope you have a peaceful and healing evening.

[liberalhistorian]

129. Oh, fer chrissakes,

first of all, what ridiculous bullshit semantic nitpicking. The expression "get the shit kicked out of me" as used in our society doesn't always literally mean that, and you damn well know it. Talk about kicking someone further when they're down.

Second, as far as "classroom procedures", unless you're actually in education, and special education at that, you don't know what the hell you're talking about. I grew up with teachers and this shit happened a lot more than you'd like to think, yes, even to my parents, and they were NOT permitted to defend themselves at all, or THEY could be in trouble. And they often didn't have control over the policies and procedures to be used in much of classroom management and that is especially true with the kind of classroom the OP is in.

And I think he knows better than you do what is "optimum in the classroom". You sound just like one of the bullshit administrators my parents had to put up with throughout their careers. Right down to the jargon-speak.

[Snoutport]

132. Tonight YOU are MY hero!!

Thank you so much! I'm a big strong guy but when a 265 pound adult male is beating on you and won't stop, you should get to call it an butt kicking or whatever you want. I work with rough kids and this one of my worst experiences. I feel like I got the sh*t kicked out of me so it seems pretty fair to say it.

[cali]

179. Actually I do know what I'm talking about

I spent years working within the Protection & Advocacy system which is federally mandated. Part of that mandate is advocacy within schools for kids with pysch disabilities. In that capacity, among other things, I worked with teachers, administration and families on safety plans.

[liberalhistorian]

188. But you didn't have to be the teacher

in the classroom for eight hours a day, five days a week, did you? You didn't actually have to BE the one who was dealing with the reality of it all day, day in and day out, did you? Of course not. And there's a HUGE difference.

[snooper2]

194. Um, yes it does...If you get the "shit beat out of you" you should be in some fucking real pain

Second, you really think a random post on a random messageboard on the Intertubes is "kicking somebody when they are down" :eyes:

Third, teachers have a right to defend themselves and do. That statement is absolute crap. You are going to tell me that three punks can go up to their science teacher, start beating the shit out of him, and he has to just take it.
BULLLLLLSHHHHHHIIIIIIIITTTTTTT

If attacked, a teacher can use force to restrain a student. The teacher is entitled to use proportionate and reasonable force.

Oh, and there are only about 2 million "school fight" videos on Youtube. You can see teachers in some of them use plenty of force to stop the brats. Some day somebody can try to explain to me why 60% of these videos are hispanic middle school girls.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_93q5Ock6hU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1ZZ_-RES04&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9g_RYGhfik&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xep6Ad_8DAI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kHOd8kYkyY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEq47--CJpA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnJ6x2AfCW0&feature=related

[liberalhistorian]

207. How the hell do you know he's not in some

"real fucking pain?" And, again, we use that expression often not literally. And I grew up with teachers who WERE NOT PERMITTED to defend themselves or they could be in some real trouble. The one time my stepdad did try to defend himself from an unprovoked attack, HE was suspended even though he'd been injured. The rules are even tighter when it comes to special education and severe emotional/behavioral classes. I grew up with it and I sub, so I think I'm at least a bit qualified to know what I'm talking about.

And if you want to use youtube as a viable academic source, then it's no wonder you don't know what you're talking about.

[snooper2]

211. teachers have the same right to self defense as anybody else

period...I don't know why you think schools are some magical land where kids are allowed to do whatever the fuck they want.

Example #1, let me know if you need more....Please pay special attention to the part that says "acting in self defense"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/04/teacher-punches-student_n_871112.html

"Three weeks ago, students in Sandra Hadsock's class learned a lesson you might not expect from a 64-year-old art teacher: How to throw a right hook. According to Daily Mail, Hadsock struck one of her students after he allegedly called her obscene names and backed her against a wall. Although originally arrested and charged with child abuse, the State Attorney's Office has now decided not to file criminal charges, stating it is unclear whether or not Hadsock was acting in self defense. Hadsock's attoney, Ty Tison, says the video "speaks for itself," reports MORE"

[liberalhistorian]

217. I think that maybe because I grew up with and am still

surrounded by teachers, who have very strict rules as to what they can and cannot do regardless of how provoked they are, especially in special education classes? Because I sub and happen to know current rules of many districts, which means I just might know more than you do what I'm talking about? Schools may not be a "magical land", but they can sure come close in many districts.

Oh, and I didn't realize that you also grew up with teachers who WERE NOT PERMITTED TO DEFEND THEMSELVES IN THE CLASSROOM and I saw the results of that. I do NOT understand what is so hard to understand about that.

[adigal]

221. Why wasn't the kid removed??? In most schools,

he would have been removed. No IEP gives a kid the right to be violent. I would get the Union involved if the principal doesn't help.

[cali]

236. that's absolutely true. IEPs are NEVER a license for acting out.

[Name removed]

255. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CreekDog]

69. no 911?

"We then spent the next hour and a half being hit, kicked, scratched, spit on, head-butted, bit at, cursed at, pinched and pretty much thoroughly beaten. He threw his shoes, furniture, ripped my shirt and used pretty much every filthy word I have ever heard."

I think i saw this in a Quentin Tarantino movie.

[Incitatus]

75. Yes, that sounds very strange.

This altercation went on for an hour and a half before reinforcements (police, a resource officer, or other school administrators/teachers) arrived to help end the situation?

[Snoutport]

147. THe family was there in 20 minutes to pick up the student

but he wouldn't calm down and kept escalating.

[DainBramaged]

190. Why is there doubt? Why can't you believe the author on face value?

:shrug:

[Name removed]

240. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DainBramaged]

243. And you have how much experience with disabled and challenged kids?

Thanks for chiming in, I'll make a notation....

[CreekDog]

251. two good reasons: 1) it defames an entire organization, so you can't argue no harm in believing it

2) this story, in addition to all the others is really a "story arc" that is including a lot of detail about a district, a school, its facilities, its students and the thing is, a lot of that stuff is contradictory. in addition to its internal contradictions, its contradicted by district policies (school food for example).

if those aren't reasons to doubt, then you are accepting some pretty bad things about that school and district as gospel truth.

that doesn't seem fair to me. i mean, we aren't talking about criticizing people who helped facilitate an unjust war, this is maligning a public school district, staffed with a lot of underpaid people and teachers and apparently, at least with respect to food, is trying to do some very forward-thinking things (like vegan options, vegetarian options, local food, fresh food and freshly prepared food).

the stories all started with food, and they were problematic in terms of consistency. i don't think i'm supposed to forget my doubts about those stories when i read a new one.

you know, maybe it's all true, but some odd and contradictory things have to be true for the story to be credible.

[CreekDog]

265. it's at a remote location

on the 8th moon of Neptune.

[cali]

77. ......

drama.

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[burrfoot]

131. I know it sounds like a made up story, you guys,

and of course I wasn't personally there- but this story sounds 100% believable to me. I started out working in group homes about 9 years ago and have since moved on to kids in foster care; but I will never forget those days. I've been in situations like this, where I've ended up with a shirt ripped half off my body, I've been slapped, kicked, pinched, punched, kicked, spit on, and had feces thrown at me. Been punctured with pencils. Had three fingers broken once. Had a tooth knocked loose by a kid who headbutted me when I (mistakenly) had my head in the wrong position during a restraint. Like the OP said- this wasn't even the worst day...by a long shot.

I honestly believe that people who haven't been in this system or seen what the behaviors are like don't have the slightest clue what it's like. No judgement there- it's not something you just "happen to see" in your every day life.

When these kids are institutionalized, you see all kinds of ridiculous, violent behavior like this; and you see one or two overworked, underpaid staff people trying to manage it. As the OP noted, people in these situations are trained in very specific physical restraint techniques, but they are a last resort only and, given the particulars of any given situation, restraint may not be feasible- in which case, you just stay there and try not to get hit too much.

When you have buildings full of kids in crisis, and often more than one crisis going on at once (or, at least, no one free to leave the kids that they are responsible for in order to help you); these situations go on for as long as it takes the kid to get worn out. As the OP noted, this kid would get aggressive, then calm down and back off, then escalate again...

These aren't adults, where it's a question of defending yourself. These are minors, who those people who take these jobs have agreed to help, knowing all of the risks. They are (sometimes literally) fighting for their lives- fighting as hard as they can- and, as the adult, you have to respond with the absolute bare minimum of force in order to prevent someone from getting seriously hurt. The odds are WAY in favor of it being the adult who gets hurt, in that kind of situation.

Just sayin'- go work in a group home for foster kids for a little while. When you're ready to come back and post some stories, we'll be here to read them.

:toast:

[Mimosa]

142. Similar assaults happen to staff in group homes

One of my dear friends had a job working nights in a group home for the developmentally disabled. One night her co-worker didn't show up and one of the big guys tried to rape her. Her accounts to me of what happens in similar circumstances sounded very similar.

Later in the year, she quit the job.

Snoutport, thanks for telling us about this. You are in no way being unethical since the 'student' is completely anonymous.

*hug*

[Snoutport]

152. Thank you kindly

I appreciated that very much. If they want to sue me for proof, it is all on film.

People just don't realize that EVERY kid pretty much goes to public school regardless of where they are behavior wise.

[Snoutport]

148. nope...just the worst day of the year in a class for severe behavior

[DainBramaged]

191. That's right, keep beating on the people who post these life stories

and pretty soon, DU will be noting but news clippings.

[Name removed]

130. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gordianot]

72. You need a new school attorney, sounds to me your classroom is not his least restrictive placement.

I hope They do functional behavioral assessment and work on a manifestation how and if the disability is related. This situation is begging for an alternative placement. if the manifestation does not show the behavior is related discipline is the same as any child without disabilities. If it is related your setting is not the least restrictive environment and the IEP team needs to modify his Individual Education Plan before someone is seriously injured. I know of a paraprofessional who died on the operating table from injuries sustained by a violent student, a few years ago a student was convicted of homicide against a teacher after the IEP team declared the discipline was related to his disability. Members of the IEP team can assume liability on a civil basis. Protect yourself and the other students in your class. Your school needs to take a stand and get a good special education attorney.

[Snoutport]

87. We are the alternative placement :0)

I'm the class those kids go to. I know what I'm in for...just was a harder day than usual.

[gordianot]

113. Then the placement is not working and a new one is needed.

In rare cases you can get emergency expedited injunctive relief from a federal court expensive but lives are worth it. Ten days be damned, I would not let the student return until issues are resolved, most courts will agree for sake of public safety. There are situations where you have to let attorneys hash it out. I have been where you are now, it can be done.

[B-Stupid]

73. Damn

My wife teaches 7th and 8th grade math. If this happened to her I would be down at that school 1st thing in the morning with a top notch attorney. Back in my younger years, I would have bypassed the prudent route and instead gone to that little fuckers house.

[BlueIris]

76. Jesus Christ.

I'm not sure what's worse--the fact that the kid's parent is f-ing clueless about...everything, or the fact that there's nothing you can do to protect yourself from this happening again.

Yikes. I hope you will at least get the medical care you need (you know, from those allegedly luxorious health benefits teachers get.)

[mahina]

79. Good luck sister.

This is a serious and shitty situation, and you should NOT be exposed to that kind of risk.

aloha ke akua sister.

[KamaAina]

266. The seestah is one braddah!

with a same-sex hubby. You guys at least have civil unions now! :hi:

[mahina]

268. Whoops!

:hi: Need a shaka smilie. Hey Kama! :hi:

[merh]

81. I don't know where you live but in my city/county/state that

action is assault & possibly attempted assault with a deadly weapon (a sharpened pencil can kill) and that teenage student could be adjudicated an adult and tried for his felonies on you and your assistant.

The zero toleration for violence policy that our schools have would make it very easy to not only have the kid arrested, he would be expelled without a question.

Yes, he is a kid - but his behavior is not something that should be tolerated. I hope your bruises, outside and to your heart, heal and things get better for you - for us, for our society.

[Codeine]

85. A girl I dated for a while taught Severely Emotionally Disturbed kids.

She finally quit after getting hit in the head from behind - by surprise - with a desk. A student actually brained her with a fucking desk.

You guys don't begin to get paid enough.

[Snoutport]

156. I agree!

[supernova]

86. Oh, hot bath and/or whirlpool

if you have it. And a relaxing massage from hubby is what you need.

You frankly deserve 4 or 5 times your salary. My mother used to teach 9th grade algebra but they were all regular kids. I understand what you mean by you were expected to deal with it yourselves.

My heart goes out to you.

Gentle hugs :hug: :hug: :hug:

[nadinbrzezinski]

92. Part of his disability....

now there is something wrong with this picture... yes there are disabled kids, but having to take physical abuse.... like this.

Yep, you earn every penny and then some.

[JohnnyLib2]

94. Several special ed teachers in this family, and many friends.

THANK YOU for all you do, including finding your way through absurd regulations!

[Nevernose]

95. I know the look on your husband's face: my wife works at a "opportunity" school

We met at a rough, rough school in the "inner city." I once took a knife away from a student and was later told that I hadn't followed the proper discipline program (i.e., I hadn't called home and given a detention first -- for a freaking knife!). Another time the administration and the school police arranged for me to separate the student from his backpack with the gun inside. We left this year. We could handle feeding the many hungry kids (some days it's leftovers, other days it's homecooked meals, sometimes what we've begged from farmer's markets, and other days ramen & vitamins). We could handle the need to provide them with a drug-free, conflict-free, abuse-free environment. What we could not handle was the systemic neglect by the school itself, as if they were doomed from birth, or forgotten, or worst of all never remembered.

So we left to different schools and remain largely sane. My school has many of the same problems as the old one, but at least has dedicated, caring, and competant administrators.

My wife's new school (which she loves) is where the kids go when they've been expelled from the alternative school they get sent to the first time they're expelled. Also the ones coming to or from prison (not jail, but prison). I teach there during summers. She has to give the kids a pat down that makes TSA look friendly. She has to count the pencils before and after she passes them out. She can't wear a dress to work because of the risk of sexual assault.

Verbal abuse of the most horrific kind occurs daily at her. So are threats of violence. One kid got his parole revoked because he had a printed mapquest map to our house and was threatening to kill the both of us (he was trying unsuccessfuly to recruit co-conspirators); i'd been his summer school teacher and he hated us both. She loves her job. LOVES IT. She's an amazing teacher and feels like she's serving the most at-risk kids in the district, and for ten years her department's instruction has consisted almost entirely of word searches, a policy she has changed. The administrator there is good, too, and so is the school cop.

But some days she comes home and she just has this look in her eyes and this way of walking and I know something terrible was said or done and I am powerless to stop it or to help her. Some fine young man has punched her in the stomach because he thought she was listening to him when he didn't want her to; some rapist has threatened to rape her next; some kid ODs on stolen pain meds.

Edit and update: She just walked in the door and told me that today she felt "pretty and powerful" and another kid actually borrowed a book -- an actual, real life book.

[knitter4democracy]

101. Give her a hug from this writing coach.

I've actually managed to have books "relocated". I know the feeling. :)

Honestly, the scariest kid I ever dealt with, the one who was the most threatening, was a "good" kid in my AP class at a college-prep Catholic high school. My gangbangers are respectful (granted, it's a small city, and we don't have the problems on the level your area does), more so when they realize I actually care about them.

[eridani]

150. Makes sense. If kids have absolutely nothing else--

--respect is the only currency they can deal in.

[knitter4democracy]

253. That's exactly it. They crave respect and attention and can blossom when they get it.

At least we don't have very many with entitlement issues. I've found I have very little patience with those special snowflakes any more. Our students are always amazed and surprised when an adult follows through on a promise, actually stops and listens, and cares enough to help.

[knitter4democracy]

98. I teach in an alternative high school. If a student hits us, we call the cops.

It doesn't matter if they have a label--we call the cops. We make sure they know this and know that we will suspend them, regardless of disability, until the matter is dealt with properly. Where the hell were your fellow teachers?! Where the hell were your administrators?! Security of any kind?! Anyone?! Surely, surely, someone else heard that! I know we keep an ear out and run if we think anything's happening and then lock the school down to keep the kids from getting involved.

Take pics. Have your hubby take pics. You need to document it all.

[Zoeisright]

102. First of all, you're doing the work of angels.

Secondly, I hope you get better soon.

But, doesn't your school have some type of backup system in place?

My husband works at an alternative high school for kids with felony records. All the teachers wear whistles around their necks. Something happens, the whistle gets blown and 9 adults are there in record time. And they have walkie-talkies also for emergencies.

[Odin2005]

103. OMG, I'm glad you are OK! sounds like the parents are just reinforcing his behavior.

"When his parent showed up his first question was whether he was still going to get to go out to dinner tonight. My guess is, as I sit here beat up, he is out eating Teriyaki Tuesday."

He should be being grounded, not rewarded with eating out.

[lumberjack_jeff]

215. During full meltdown, it's impossible to teach anything.

Unacceptable behavior isn't always controllable. If the goal is to eliminate the unacceptable behavior, the first order of business is to get the kid out of meltdown mode so that you can to teach coping methods.

If teriaki tuesday brings the kid back to a teachable state quicker than the alternatives (although it seems unjust) it's reasonable.

A justice/punishment model isn't useful when the behavior isn't caused by conscious choices. In that case, get the kid back to a teachable state by the quickest line possible. Puzzle out the triggers and work to teach the kid coping methods for those triggers.

[Liberal_in_LA]

104. wow!!!!!!!!!!!!! Glad you survived it.

[unkachuck]

105. time to look for a new profession....n/t

[Fuzz]

106. Quit complaining. You get the entire summer off and a better pension than everyone else in the world

:sarcasm: X 100

I could not do what you do. Thanks for doing it.

[femmocrat]

108. I would press charges for assault and battery.

How old was this kid?

[Peacetrain]

109. Snoutpout, please take care.. I will be thinking about you

[dotymed]

110. I thoroughly appreciate you.

Similarly, how about a single male parent? When his teen-aged son has been taught by his "white trash" mother:
1) "Show him no respect, he is shit." Although the father has raised him most of his life, even before the, not recent divorce?
2) "If he disciplines you, call the police." Even taking the phone away is "stopping communication" to a mother who didn't attend any of the child's functions, yet the father did, all of them, and paid for them also.

What a fucked up country.

I despise drama...

[wundermaus]

111. Get a good lawyer.

Take pictures of your injuries. Then file a police report for assault and attempted murder.
Get a restraining order to keep him 1000 yards away from you.

[Name removed]

159. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

112. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mackerel]

117. I'm glad you're physically o.k. but I'm concerned about you

emotionally. I left teaching because of this and while I loved teaching I didn't like classroom management aspect.

It's very traumatic to have these kinds of experiences where you work.

[REP]

116. Unbelievable!

Really. Unbelievable.

[Richardo]

250. .

[a kennedy]

119. HOLY CRAP WOMAN.......

when I first started reading his I was hoping you were a MAN. Sorry.....so sorry. D*mn.

[cleanhippie]

224. It is a man.

Check his profile.

[a kennedy]

267. Oh my...... so sorry.

:blush:

[Deep13]

254. For the record, injuries hurt men just as much as they hurt women. nt

[FeelingBlue]

122. You have to file a report with the police no matter

how deranged the student is. As you know, it will follow him through school, and will become part of his profile.

I am terribly sorry for your suffering. I know you are under strange pressure. But definitely PRESS CHARGES.

Best wishes from a former teacher in a big urban school.

[spanone]

123. holy moley

[Taverner]

125. Teachers should at least be allowed to use a stun gun. Non lethal, works right away, stops attacker

And of course 3 x hazard pay

And a bonus

[Dappleganger]

126. You're a saint and a hero...

and deserve a whopping raise (or at least combat pay).

:toast:

[burrfoot]

128. So sorry, snoutport...

I used to work in a group home with a population which I imagine is very similar to the kids you teach. I can 100% identify with the kind of day you've just had...I've been there where you just have to take the hits...and spit...even though you know that somehow, somebody is going to think about how they can make the situation your fault.

Hang in there.

:toast:

[TygrBright]

135. I hope tomorrow is an easier day, too.

Don't know whether this kid will ever get the opportunity to thank you someday. It's possible. In the mean time, if it were my kid, I'd be thanking you. And as someone who shares a world with this kid today, and who will probably be still around when this kid has a shot at reaching a better potential, thanks to your dedication, I thank you.

It's hard work, maybe some of the hardest.

But also the most worthwhile. It's far, far too easy to write these kids off. And aside from the issues of how much worse the results can be when they are written off, there is always the hope of how much better it will be for all of us if we stick with them, do the hard stuff, and give them the chance-- you just never know when one of these "different" kids will turn out to make incredible contributions with their lives.

thanks, again.

And for heavens' sake, treat yourself (and your esposo) to something nice this weekend! Wish you were here, I'd give you my 10,000 Waves private tub gift certificate!

appreciatively,
Bright

[handmade34]

136. I hope for you

a wonderful day with your students tomorrow... all the naysayers here not understanding your tolerance and persistence, certainly haven't walked in your shoes.

I worked as a correctional officer for a few years and I did a job similar to yours (at-risk kids, not accepted anywhere else)... yours is more difficult!

I loved the kids I worked with even when they would act out, be abusive or violent... there is more to these kids than the occasional bad times...

hope you are allowed to give hugs!

[Inchworm]

139. Sorry love

me too though. I have been giving a no-work kinda guy hell for months. It was bound to happen ;)

[Name removed]

141. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tunkamerica]

160. I'm pretty sure he's a he... and I might be wrong but you seem to be mocking.

[Name removed]

166. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tunkamerica]

168. If you look at his profile he lists himself as a male.

Just because he's married to a male does not make him a female. I believe you jumped to a conclusion that isn't supported by the evidence. Anyway, his (or her) sex isn't really important.

[Name removed]

189. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DainBramaged]

186. Uh, no, and tread lightly.

:donut:

[Common Sense Party]

144. My son broke his teacher's collarbone.

He didn't mean to, but he's big--way bigger than she is--and he was swinging at another kid in the special ed room, and she somehow got in between them.

She's the sweetest teacher in the world and she still is fond of my son, even though he hasn't been in her classroom in a few years.

There aren't many jobs more dangerous than that of a special education teacher.

[Ilsa]

175. I agree completely. It's hard to know when they are

going to erupt, too. My autistic son has broken my nose and nearly broke my arm. I can't tell you how many times I've had to pull the car over to deal with him attacking me while driving. Fortunately, it appears that phase is over. I am so sorry you've been physically hurt. SpEd teachers hung the moon, IMO.

They are looking at cutting teacher pay here in Texas. I am reminded of the comments by the banking CEOs that if their executive pay and bonuses were restricted, they wouldn't be able to hire the best talent. Why doesn't that logic apply with teachers and schools?

[LiberalEsto]

177. CEOs should be forced to teach

although I'd be concerned about the safety of the kids with those sharks.

[Common Sense Party]

229. No, I haven't been hurt. The teacher was, unfortunately.

I still have 100 pounds on my kid, and I know lots of nasty wrist locks and submission moves. I got my job revised so I can be home to deal with him. He towers over my wife and daughters, and while he's an angel 98% of the time, I've gotta be here for the 2% when he gets out of control. He has attacked me while driving, too. He tries to pick fights when he gets mad, but I won't really let him.

I'm sorry you have been hurt. I wish no one had to go through that, but until there's a magic wand that will take away aggressive behavior from autistic kids, I guess that's our lot in life.

[Lugnut]

157. You poor thing!

Something similar happened to a dear friend of mine three years ago. He was a Special Ed teacher at a local public school. A student flipped out and threw a chair at him seriously injuring his back. He had to take sick time off through regular school district procedures and use his own personal health insurance coverage to pay for the treatment of his injuries! I was appalled that workman's compensation did not apply in his case. That's just outrageous.

I know that the student is not responsible because of his/her situation but it breaks my heart that dedicated teachers like you and my friend have to grin and bear it with no recourse. You don't get paid nearly enough to do what you do.

:hug:

[DollyM]

165. not to undermine the severity of this . . .

But think of the other students that are subject to this as well. Our rural Illinois we have this lovely thing called "cross categorical" classroom. In other words, BD kids are thrown in with MR kids because it is the cheapest thing the school can do. My son was 10 years old when a 7th grade BD student in his class, got mad because he had got a detention and took my son by the collar of his shirt and slammed his head into the wall. He had a huge goose egg on his head and we had several sleepless nights watching for signs of a concussion. He was also terrifed to go back to school. I went to talk with the principal and found that the students punishment was an in school suspension and he had to spend his lunchtimes with the principal. All the principal could do was whine about having to give up his lunch hour every day for a week. I asked him if he could guarantee the safety of my son and he said no. I pulled my son out of public school that day and never looked back. I home schooled him through high school, only putting him back long enough for him to take Drivers' Education. I raised a happy, healthy, kind and loving young man that made a difference in the world before his life was cut short at 19 due to a car accident. I am sorry that things like this are happening in the public school, but honestly, I wouldn't put my child in public school anymore for all the money in the world. (Oh, this was a small school of less than 400 students grade k-12 and we thought it would be safe because it was small.)

[Esurientes]

264. Thank you for sharing some memories of your son, DollyM.

He sounds like he was a wonderful person, and I'm sorry for your loss.

:hug:

Is that his picture at the bottom of your message?

[DollyM]

273. thank you . . .

Yes, a friend photo shopped several pictures of him into these. You can never get enough decent pictures of teenagers, they just won't let you so what we we have are very precious to us.

[alp227]

167. everywhere, teachers are threatened by violence and have to put up with so much,

whether by disturbed kids or in poorer areas kids in gangs. and the wrong wing thinks that teachers=slaves who deserve nothing but minimum wage and left on their own when it comes to health care and stuff. even if they have to deal with kids like this one whose parents don't teach em how to behave.

[TheManInTheMac]

170. Geeze, I hope today is easier for you too. n/t

[Serve The Servants]

171. I commend you.

You have far, far more restraint then I.
May I offer you one word of advice (well two) should this ever happen again? Blood Chokes - Learn them.


And yes, you deserve every single cent you make plus much, much more!

[avebury]

172. He may have a disability but couldn't you still call the police

and have him arrested for assault and battery? You may not be able to suspend him but I sure as heck would be calling the police. Maybe if his parents had to deal with the police they whether or not to take him out to dinner would not be the big issue. Your situation sucks. So sorry for you. You have the right to a safe work environment.

[lunatica]

173. Snoutport I'm very saddened that teachers go through this stuff

Schools seem to be more and more like war zones. If vibes make any difference I'm sending you and your husband my best ones.

[WVRICK13]

174. You Are Better Than Me

Disability or no disability I would have defended myself and been fired most likely. This child does not belong in school. They are sick and dangerous and most likely will not be rehabilitated or fixed to the point that education will even matter later in life. This student needs to be in an institution for the criminally insane and kept there. No amount of eduction will make him safe for the general public. Where will he work?

[paparush]

176. Hope your district/board allows for some paid leave after such an incident.

I'm moved to say what we generally reserve for members of our armed forces, "Thank you for your service."

[LiberalEsto]

178. A good friend of mine got hit on the head by a kid with a brick

She wound up in the hospital with a concussion, etc. She was a teacher in her county's juvenile detention center.

Eventually she retired, and now she has to work full time at a department store in order to scrape by on her "generous" teacher's pension.

[slackmaster]

180. Maybe another part of his disability is lack of discipline

I'm glad it's you doing your job rather than me. I would have kicked the kid's ass and gotten fired.

[raccoon]

181. I'm sorry that happened, Snoutport. Kudos to you for all you do.

:hug: :toast:

[WatsonT]

187. Need to start establishing special schools for these kids

staffed primarily with mustered out marine drill sergeants.

[Name removed]

192. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[montanto]

196. What you really mean to say is: " I know nothing about

what teachers have to put up with and this post really opened my eyes." I, too, have been stabbed by a student and there was nothing I could do about it. I, too, had to look at the student for the rest of the day and hope that the next day would be better. Students with behavioral problems and an IEP are pretty well protected, and in many schools there isn't enough support staff to even send the problem student out of the room.

[RedCloud]

193. Sounds like your school put you at risk with his disability

If there is a problem with the student going apeshit you and you assitant have to be protected first, THEN your students and last and perhaps least, this student from himself.

At higher institues, faculty are NOT required to accept students, regardless of disability documentation who engage in profanity or any form of intimidation of others. I would love to see you win a lawsuit as a victory for other teachers.

[Snoutport]

199. Like police and firemen, special ed teachers know the risk and take the job willingly

But sometimes we have to vent and share with the world what is going on. Even worse when you consider that 150+ special ed assistants and speech paths were pink slipped in my city in the last couple of weeks.

[Duval]

198. Damn!! Has your husband

ever suggested that you find another teaching job with less threat? I understand about having restraints when trying to protect yourself. My husband works for a State Hospital, is an adolescent psychiatrist, and more than once, has had to call on the techs to assist him in trying to ward off a kid who weighs more than he does and is just bigger and stronger. One can not harm that kid, period. They go through training exercises, too, to learn the best way to subdue an out-of-control adolescent. Teachers earn every bit of pay they get, and I don't think it is even enough. My thanks to you for trying to make a difference, as education continues to be a "target" for the right and as the USA falls further behind compared with other countries.;( :crazy: :hi: :hug:

[HillbillyBob]

203. Im so sorry. teachers do not get paid enough.

Of course when I went to school just talking back rudely would get you paddled.

[sarcasmo]

205. Even with a disability there should be a way to get this kid out of the classroom.

[Yooperman]

208. I hope it does get better for you and the student... this is why I am an advocate for video cameras

in ALL classrooms. It is a public place and it would help protect teachers (and students) who have to defend themselves.

My wife had taught for several years at the 6th grade level and has had very violent confrontations ... then it was her word against the kids... and witnesses of course. But a video speaks volumes when something like this happens.

Good luck...

Peace

YM

[Bucky]

210. A student once body slammed me. Fortunately our principal took it serious & threatened charges.

In the end, I was the one who made the call not to press charges or have the kid confined to a CEP center. He did get a three day suspension... that seemed like enough to me. But we should never have to worry about basic workplace safety in a job like teaching. I hope you do get a better day for the rest of the week. I certainly agree that when the going gets rough in our job, your first concern has to be not just our own safety, but that of the kids we're there to teach & protect, even if one of the kids we're protecting is the one trying to cause harm.

[lonestarnot]

212. I am sorry Snoutport.

:(

[Romulox]

214. Not to sound insensitive...but sometimes, surviving something like that can be life affirming

I don't know if that makes sense, but what I mean is, you can stand up, if need be, and take it. Heck, you can even respond with a level head during maximum stress. It can let you know that you're alive.

Hope that doesn't read the wrong way. Not condoning any kind of violence here. Just relaying a slighting different POV.

[JDPriestly]

216. Two of my friends were seriously injured while teaching.

One of them had been an award-winning teacher, lots of awards.

She had to go on disability and have operations.

What sort of "disability" does this person have? Sounds like the disability requires that the child be kept away from others. That child should not be in a classroom with other people. I'm sorry, but that is a safety issue.

[adigal]

219. Why did he continue to abuse you for another hour and a half??

Any public school I worked in would have had security remove him from your room after an attack. You need to see your union - you have a right to be safe at your job.

[radhika]

222. Fast Forward 10 Years

What do you think your wonderful attack-thug is doing with his life?

He's bigger, sulkier and despite your efforts probably has minimal skills for working with others in any law-abiding context. Hell, he probably couldn't work with other more evolved, profit making criminals.

[Aerows]

223. My sister is a teacher

She had a student hurl a desk at her and broke two of her toes and on of her tarsals because he wasn't interested in doing math.

She was teaching sixth grade, and stopped simply because of students that were bigger than her and this incident.

What the hell is that child getting taught at home, and why the hell should an educator with a Master's Degree have to deal with it?

She teaches in a low-income district and is white, while the majority of her students are black. She goes in every day, doing the best she can.

[Aerows]

226. How did it last 90 minutes?

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to call bullshit. My sister had an incident with her classroom, but one of them went out the class and got a hall monitor.

[Pisces]

227. You obviously work with Autistic or mentally handicapped child. You knew what you signed up for, now

you want to post this drama as if this is what normal teachers put up with every day. Your husband said nothing because this is work as usual for you and you can't sue because your job description
involves physical contact.

Sell your story somewhere else. Mentally handicapped children are not responsible for their behavior. Don't work in this environment if you are at your breaking point. I know plenty of people
that have worked in group home situations and there is a an expiration date for these jobs.

[jillan]

232. Thank you.

[bluestateguy]

237. Nobody deserves to be beat up in their job

Unless maybe they play in the NFL, and they make a lot more money than special ed teachers.

[Pisces]

248. The job clearly states that physical altercations will occur. You decide to take the job you take

what comes with it. This is not a surprise attack. I can't feel sorry for Snout.

[personman]

259. You can't feel sorry for a person who was attacked unprovoked?

Yes it comes with that job, that doesn't make it any better.

I guess if any law enforcement official gets shived it is because it is in the job description and we shouldn't feel sorry.

Seriously, I'm the anarchist and I have to point out this logical legal flaw?

Sad shit.

[KamaAina]

242. "normal" teachers? As in, unlike mine?

I am Autistic. I used to blow out in class rather frequently. Never went after teacher with a pencil or any other weapon, though; I usually directed the violence at myself.

And if, like myself, this young man makes it to the Ivy League, Snoutport will get the credit. And for you, and everyone else who still thinks in terms of "mentally hadicapped" children? A big, fat razzberry.

[Odin2005]

260. +1,000,000,000,000,000,000

[JackDragna]

246. I teach. That this person wanted a venue to talk about their job..

..and something that happened on it isn't unusual, especially when something like this happens. I'm not sure whether this was a good idea in terms of privacy issues, but I can understand it in human terms. In short, you'd likely do well taking a long walk off a short dock.

[demmiblue]

271. Wow... a person that is obviously dedicated to his job and the children that are under his care...

is shat upon. And it has been clearly obvious that he is committed to his students.

So, he can't let off a little steam in a venue that he thought was welcoming?

No words (well there are words, however...).

:thumbsdown:

[chervilant]

230. Here's an example of student violence in a GP for you:

A rather large, young, newly-minted shop teacher kept telling his assistant principal that one of his shop students was a big problem, and needed to be removed from his classroom. The student kept pulling dangerous pranks, like turning off the shop lights in a windowless room just as this teacher began to demonstrate ripping a board on a table saw. The assistant principal minimized this teacher's concerns, and asserted that the student would remain in the shop class.

After yet another dnagerous incident, the teacher took this student out into the hall to administer a verbal reprimand. Before he could say a word, the student cold-cocked him in his temple, giving him a concussion and sending him to the floor. The student continued to assault the teacher, kicking him repeatedly in his groin, chest, and head. The teacher was taken to the hospital after this assault, where the examining physician confirmed he had a 'mild concussion.'

Because the teacher did try to defend himself--he pushed the student away and assumed a 'fighter's stance' to fend off further blows as he went to retrieve his glasses from inside the classroom--the school decided that the teacher had 'assaulted' the student. Never mind that the teacher did not strike the student. Never mind that the teacher was disoriented and concussed from the student's initial blows. The teacher was fired and has been blacklisted in this school district, which means he will never teach again.

The 'student' was nineteen years old--having failed to graduate twice--and was significantly smaller than the teacher, which made it easy for the school to contend that this 'big' teacher must have assaulted the 'small' student. Furthermore, none of the other students would come forward in defense of the teacher. They all stood around laughing and pointing as the attacking student continued his assault.

[jillan]

231. Snoutport - I've read several of your posts, enjoy most of them, but

I'm wondering if you are in the right line of work.

If Special Ed is your passion, maybe you would be better off working with higher functioning kids?

Many of these kids do have behavior issues because they cannot communicate their needs and wants in an effective manner.
One of the best teachers my daughter ever had told me she expected behavior problems, that is normal for these kids.

When I was in college, I volunteered with a classroom where the kids had behavior issues. I had my hair pulled, the earring ripped out of my ear, had a chair thrown at me. I couldn't handle it. YET the teacher of that classroom was as calm and as understanding as could be. When it happened to me she said "That's why I wear my hair up and never wear jewelry." I left after two days. And was thankful that there was someone like that teacher on this earth that can deal with these severe behavior problems.

Just something to think about. And I hope you don't think that I am undermining you in any way. I've dealt with the system in college and for 17 years as my daughter went through it. It's a tough line of work, no doubt about that. I've seen so much, been thru hell and back with teachers, principals and the district. But in the end it was always fighting for the right setting for my daughter. Maybe a different group of kids may be a better fit for you.

[obxhead]

235. I would be out of a job....

and the child would not be concerned one little bit about Teriyaki Tuesday.

[TBF]

238. When I worked with kids in a psychiatric hospital we sometimes had these types of outbursts -

but it's a little easier to deal with when you can get behind the nurses station and call for backup (and strong anti-psychotic medicines). Hope you feel better soon and please keep writing. I don't think you are violating any privacy laws and getting a picture of what is going on in schools these days is invaluable. I can't for the life of me figure how Arne Duncan is going to replace all of our good experienced folks with recent grads and be able to educate our kids successfully. Your stories are a daily reminder of why we need veteran teachers in our classrooms.

[AlabamaLibrul]

239. Snoutport...... Healing Vibes

I'm so sorry.

That kid needs to be in a more secure facility than what's going on where you're at.

[B Calm]

241. The principal didn't call the cops?

[DainBramaged]

244. It sucks so so many people not only disbelieve but attack and mock the author

shame.

[Deep13]

257. agreed. nt

[personman]

261. This place frequently disgusts me.

I persist out of some naive hope and faith.

I think the Democratic Underground has done more for anarchism than I ever could, if these are supposed to be "the good guys."

[bluestateguy]

269. Yes quite appalling

Especially for a community that prides itself on being fierce advocates for teachers.

All of these people pooh-poohing or brushing aside this violent attack are an embarassment.

[Beavker]

245. Undoubtedly there was something missed or lacking

before this kid was put into your classroom, at some point in their life. Otherwise, it's neither here nor there that this kid is in your class or in jail. Our society doesn't do much to prevent, nurture or guide these kids before it's too late. Thomm Hartmann might agree.

[tblue37]

247. I am thinking of the video of the art teacher who throws two punches at a

hulking teenaged boy who is crowding her (she is much smaller) in a very threatening way. Her other students caught it on their cell phones, so she got suspended--or fired, I forget which. But before she threw the punches at him, she repeatedly screamed "Get back! Get back!" It was obvious to me as a relatively small middle-aged woman (I am 5'3") that this woman was scared, and that the boy was deliberately menacing her. Here is the video: http://www.kidglue.com/2011/06/07/caught-on-tape-teacher-punches-student-watch/

I have had large male students do that to me, too. I teach college, and the boys who crowded me this way were huge football players. Fortunately, I can project a very dominant manner so I was able to back them down with a stare and my voice, but if they had kept coming at me like that, I would have fought back, too!

In 2003 I posted an article on my Teacher, Teacher website called "The Inmates Are Running the Asylum":

http://www.teacherblue.homestead.com/inmates.html

Here is a brief passage from the article in which I address the issue of children (even very young ones) who become physically dangerous to their classmates and even their teachers, while the teachers have no authority to do anything effective to control their behavior. The boy in this incident was nine years old! He broke the principal's wrist and continued attacking even when the cops were called in to get him under control. The cops had to handcuff him!

But after my experience in the public grade schools this past year, I now know where those badly behaved college students are coming from. I don't doubt that when Tyler, Robert, and others like them reach college age, they will still be acting up and sneering when the teacher tries to correct their bad behavior.

And of course their foolish parents will still be backing them up with threats of lawsuits if anyone dares to say anything negative to their precious little darlings.

Let me give you an example of the way parents deny their child's bad behavior and blame the schools for whatever the child does.

In one of our city's elementary schools, a fourth-grader went out of control and began throwing chairs around the room. (These days teachers actually have to have an evacuation plan for getting children out of the room if one of their classmates starts throwing furniture or otherwise endangering them.)

After the children had been evacuated, the teacher and the principal tried to remove the boy from the classroom. He struggled and kicked so hard that he broke the principal's wrist!

They had to call the police to subdue the child, but even the presence of the police did nothing to make the boy reconsider his behavior. Finally, the only way the police could control him without causing him harm was to handcuff him.

A nine-year-old boy!

His mother was outraged. She told the local newspaper that it was all the fault of the teacher and the principal. Her child was not violent, she insisted, and if they had used the Mandt hold (which is the hold used for controlling violent mental patients!), he wouldn't have been able to break the principal's wrist.

But why did she even know the name of that hold? I'm pretty well-read, but I had never heard of it before reading the article in which she mentioned it, and no one I have asked since then has heard of it, either, except for my daughter--who had a part-time job as an aide for adult mental patients for nearly a year.

[guitar man]

249. Bless you

and thanks for the work you do, I hope you heal up quickly :hug:

My wife has worked in home as a Habilitation Training Specialist for developmentally disabled adults for over 20 years and has had to face the same challenges. A big hats off to everybody that does what you do, it's a tough, tough job. :patriot:

[Deep13]

256. File a police report and press charges.

Make him the juvenile justice system's problem instead of yours. Seriously, before he kills someone. It doesn't take a lot of marbles to be sane for criminal purposes and if he's lucid enough to sit in class for lessons much of the time, then he's probably not insane. And if he is, he needs to be committed.

Being on the receiving end of violent attacks is not part of your job.

[Pisces]

263. This poster deals with mentally handicapped children who have a tendency to violence.

This is part of the job description and this person can not report it to the police as nothing illegal happened. I understand frustration with the job, but this poster intentionally left out pertinent info.

I know people who worked in adult homes and this is an expectation.

Sorry if I sound callous, but this is part of the job. These kids do not have full control of their rage or the way they act out.

[CreekDog]

272. beating people up isn't illegal?

may i politely suggest people consult someone with knowledge of the law before they actually consider what you're saying to be reliable advice.

:hi:

[rbnyc]

258. Wow

I'm so sorry to her that. I'm glad it wasn't any worse.

As a parent of a child with behavior issues (nothing like that!) I've missed plenty of dinners, meetings, work, etc. because I had to address an incident with my son. Those dinners, board meetings, birthday parties or whatever else was on my schedule just disappeared from my mind. I can't imagine asking a teacher if this was going to take long. I'm so grateful for G's teacher and I do everything I can to communicate with her and work with her. She is an amazingly valuable partner in G's development and success. Dinner? What the fuck is dinner?!

Thank you for the job you do.