In all these years, no one has ever said this to me before:

[PCIntern]

I received an emergency call from a young gentleman whom I had never seen before who was literally crying with toothache pain. I told him to come right over and he had a really badly broken-down wisdom tooth. I gave him local anesthetic and extracted it without incident.

My assistant came in to see me and said, go back out there, he has something to tell you. I went out and he said to me, "Doc, this tooth hurt so much that I was putting a gun in my mouth and thought about pulling the trigger to take the pain away."

I almost screamed at him, "Don't ever do that again! Don't ever point a gun at anything which is alive unless you intend to kill it."

He just nodded as though I was chiding him for not flossing his teeth daily.

I give the hell up...

[no_hypocrisy]

1. I'm very proud of you on several levels.

:hug:

[LiberalLoner]

2. Thank you for helping him. Brace yourself, you will see (and hear of) a lot of cases

like this to come. You will hear of people killing themselves due to pain from lack of medical and dental care. It will become commonplace I think.

[Deep13]

3. "Don't ever point a gun at anything which is alive unless you intend to kill it."

I think that was the idea.

[safeinOhio]

4. Many years ago I had an infection

from an extraction of a wisdom tooth the week before. Dry socket, or something. Anyway, I was on vacation and out of town. Called the local small town dentist at 4:00pm and he took me right in. He lanced it and I got instant relief from the pain. I think a few more hours and I'd have been in the ER. 30 years later and I still think about what a great guy he was.

[PCIntern]

6. Amazing how that works...

I had an incident when I first started practice where the young lady had been in pain for weeks, agony in fact, and when I opened the tooth and plucked the nerve out, she fainted dead away and turned white as a sheet. Did I mention that she was African-American? Scared the living crap out of me. And I mean white...never have I seen anything like that since. She started crying and thanking me, I couldn't get her to stop holding my hand and crying for minutes and minutes.

[liberalhistorian]

77. I have found that many small-town dentists and doctors

are often far more concerned with the patient and his or her health than they are with insurance and money and their own convenienve. That's not to say, of course, that there aren't urban/suburban medical professionals like that, or that all small-town dentists and doctors are like that, just that most of the ones I've known, since I began living in rural areas several years ago, are like that and that is a real relief compared to most of the suburban and urban medical professionals I've had contact with.

[madmom]

5. OMG I so wish I had found someone like you several years ago...my

daughter had a very bad wisdom tooth, it broke, causing her immense pain. Went to a dentist to have it pulled but the tooth broke leaving the root intact and open. The dentist said she needed to go to an oral surgeon immediately, called the one in our town, yes send her right over. We went over and before they even asked her her named they wanted $500. Told them she didn't have $500 or insurance can we pay on a monthly basis. Absolutely NOT. We ended going back to the original dentist for pain meds and went to a dentist in another state who would take monthly payments, 3 days later. The reason the first one said no was "because we don't know you" She/we have lived in this town for over 40 years. The other dentist that was 50 miles away didn't know us but was more than happy to make arrangements, in fact, we made them over the phone before he even saw her. Needless to say I tell everyone I know to stay away from the first dentist and go to the one in the other state.
After seeing my daughter in so much pain I can surely see how someone might start to think of that option.:cry:

[HipChick]

7. woke up with awful pain...needed a root canal

I didn't have the money at the time...it cost $1200..dr let me $50, and pay it off over 3 months...and then I needed a crown..another $1300...I paid that off over 6 months...informal..

[Bonobo]

43. With basic govt. health care in Japan, it would have cost maybe $10.

But then again, Japan sees the strength of its country in the strength and health of its citizens.

[Shagbark Hickory]

8. If he seriously thought to commit suicide before he thought to go to a dentist...

:shrug:
That's all I can say about that.

[PCIntern]

9. "wonderful world", isn't it? n/t

[kestrel91316]

13. More likely he thought about going to the dentist long ago, but

lack of money gave him pause.

[Shagbark Hickory]

18. they can take their gun to a pawn shop and get cash to pay the dentist.

[Pithlet]

19. The amount of money likely won't be enough. n/t

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pithlet]

35. Oh. I'm sorry.

Excuse the hell out of me for understand that the guy was in *excruciating pain* For crying out loud. Gawd, the internet some days.

[kestrel91316]

24. I don't think a pawned gun brings enough money to pay any serious dental bills.

[Mulhane]

53. Do a Tom Hanks

On "Castaway" he jist put that thar iceskate up agin' the rotten tooth and hauled off and whacked that sumbish skate with a rock. Ah done it with a ball peen an' cold chisel then stuff some char tabacky in thar t' cauterize the sumbish.We need t' git back t' jesus and not rely on gummint and welfar. Hell ah rely on the Lawd cuz ah only got three teeth left so it ain't easy to char ma backy. But Jesus sends me SSI checks so's I kin give t' the church. Amen.

[Mira]

56. ...

:rofl:
I had to read it 3 times to get it all, last time out loud.

[Mulhane]

83. Like swimming in Swamp Mud

Antebellum Mis'ssippi Patois, Yep.

[Cerridwen]

33. I have noted your compassion as you post on this board.

"That's all I can say about that."

[pipi_k]

10. I think a lot of people don't realize...

That a complete terror of dentists could cause someone to do that.

Before I had all the rest of my teeth ripped out in 1978 I had the most awful toothaches ever.

Two, three, four at a time would be pulled. Finally I had 11 left and they came out on the same day.

But I was literally terrified of the dentist. Mainly because of series of VERY bad experiences with a certain dentist starting when I was about 11 or 12. It set up a lifelong phobia.

A person experiencing the type of pain I had (whole head plus into my neck...drinking half a bottle of gin didn't even touch it), having a phobia of the only person who can help, isn't going to think rationally. We just want the pain to STOP.

I know that was an upsetting thing to hear, but really...if someone has that bad a phobia, it doesn't do any good at all to chastise the person. In some ways it could make the problem worse.

Anyway, I'm glad you were able to relieve that poor guy's suffering.

[notesdev]

14. I have a similar phobia

bad painful dentistry as a child, that sticks with you like little else, pain that goes to the root of your being

[pipi_k]

17. Yep...imagine an 11 year old kid

having to take a tranquilizer before going to the dentist.

That was me.

Interestingly enough, given to my mom to give to me about 30 to 40 minutes before my appointments by the very dentist who scared the shit out of me and hurt my mouth so badly each time. There were times I could have sworn he actually enjoyed hurting kids.

After a while I would just refuse to go. Ran out of the house and hid in a grove of trees watching as my mother drove around looking for me.

[FedUpWithIt All]

39. That's pretty much how it is with me.

I had several teeth drilled during a visit, shortly after being removed from my home and placed in a foster situation, with no Novocaine when i was a kid because i was afraid of needles. Hard to explain that horror. Very bad memory. There are a few other nightmare experiences punctuating a bad childhood of limited dental care, a young adult period of single parenting and deep poverty, a soda addiction and nearly a decade of time with poor or no insurance.

At this point, my teeth are very bad, usually very painful and i would likely (and i mean this quite literally) end up hyperventilating and pissing myself before i could face another dentist conscious. Sad but true.

[pipi_k]

65. Something that helped me...

When it got to the point where I could no longer keep the few teeth I had and I knew they had to come out, I called upon techniques I used during labor and childbirth (3 of them) some years before.

Guided imagery and relaxation helped a lot.

Perhaps you could get some relaxation CDs and practice with them for a few weeks (or months...however long it takes) to get yourself used to relaxing whenever you need to. I've found this very helpful for my panic disorder as well. At one point during a very bad period in the mid 80s I was having to listen to them twice a day in order to get by. Once I got the hang of it, my general anxiety level came down, and I actually had almost ten years panic attack and agoraphobia-free.

It's worth a try... :)

[Aristus]

66. My wife is a dental hygienist, and she hears that one all the time.

"I hate dentists, so I keep putting off an appointment" - this while in excruciating pain from caries or infection.

My wife simply says: "Well, you really showed us, didn't you?"

[pipi_k]

71. Not sure what a reply like that is supposed to accomplish...

other than being rather sarcastic.

People with phobias that severe need help...not sarcasm.

[Aristus]

75. You'd be surprised how many patients blame the medical provider for their phobias.

I had this one patient a few months ago. First time I had visited with him. He was following up on a hospital visit during which he was diagnosed with emergent Diabetes. He told me he knew as far back as ten years ago that something was wrong, but he hated doctors, so he didn't go to get checked out.

He tried to make his near-death Diabetes experience my fault, instead of his own for not getting regular screenings.

[pipi_k]

78. And too many medical professionals...

take a patient's fear personally.

This man didn't try to make it YOUR fault.

How could it be YOUR fault if he had never seen you before?


"Hating" doctors is just another way of saying "I'm terrified of doctors".

somewhere along the line some medical person did something (knowingly or unknowingly) to instill that fear into someone.


Agoraphobia is like that. An agoraphobic will often have a panic attack in a particular place, then associate THAT PLACE with the attack, and in the future he will avoid that place. Then it happens in other places, and pretty soon he's avoiding everything. It's not the store or the highway or bridge, etc. that's to blame. It's the person's emotional associations with the fear itself.

Really. When "normal" people educate themselves on the anxiety disorders, life gets so much easier for them, and for the people who have to deal with those disorders daily.

[eShirl]

89. +1

thank you
:hug:

[Raine]

86. I developed a phobia about the dentist too when I was a kid.

I had a dentist who slapped me, I had my hand up near my chin and he told me to move it when I didn't move it fast enough he slapped my hand. He slapped my hand so hard that he caused it to swell. I was embarassed and didn't want my parents to know because I knew they would go after the dentist and it would become a big deal. So I somehow kept it from them but after that threw a fit anytime about going to the dentist. My mother understood because she also had a dentist phobia from a bad experience. Of course as a result my teeth got in miserable shape. Luckily by the time I was in high school I was more concerned about my appearance than my fear of the dentist. I manage to white knuckle it and make it thru appointments. After getting my teeth in shape, I am obsessive about continuing to go but I still get stressed out.

[Uben]

11. 35 yrs ago.....

....my wife worked as an assistant for a dentist, so he became my dentist. He told me my teeth were very chalky and fractured easily, and that I would probably have dentures before I was thirty. He suggested we root canal and cap them all, and he would do it if I could come in when he had an opening for what my insurance paid (80% back then). So we did it. All my teeth have porcelain to gold caps. I haven't had tooth pain in 35 years. Consequently, he died at age 42 of cancer back in the late eighties. I still think of what that man did for me and how much agony he saved me. I will always hold a place for him in my heart.

[PCIntern]

12. Sad that he died...

not unusual - we have a disproportionate number of dentists with cancer, my guess is that it's from the environmental exposure to the acrylics we use: ethyl and methyl methacrylate and we never used gloves or fume hoods.

[Wednesdays]

41. And X-ray radiation, too, perhaps?

:shrug:

[Lucinda]

15. Sounds like he was trying to tell you how much agony he was in and "thank you"

and I think the "just nodded" was likely the result of shock at your response

[readmoreoften]

84. +1

[Raine]

88. I think so too

I don't think he literally meant it.

[postulater]

16. I've had that happen with people with back pain a couple of times

One guy had no money so once he got better he painted my office. He later ended up moving away to get married.

Some health problems really suck.

[Brickbat]

20. Chronic pain is a terrible thing.

[Greybnk48]

22. You're a good man. n/t

[PCIntern]

23. The RWers just want people to die who can't 'afford' to live.

They're Darwinists...who said they didn't believe in Evolution? They are its greatest proponents.

[Wait Wut]

25. I know how he feels.

I've had a toothache for over 4 months now. The severity comes and goes, but there are days/nites that it's unbearable. Add to that my Fibromyalgia is friggin out of control, I'm losing my eyesight in a bizarrely painful way, pretty sure I had a minor stroke before Christmas and I've had the same idea as this young man. No insurance and I make "too much" to qualify for AHCCCS (AZs Medicaid). Pain managment comes in ibuprofen, Aleve and Tylenol.

I think of my son and my sister. That's what keeps me from going through with it. That and the fact that I want to keep fighting for those that will come after me. It's too late for me, but there will be others if things don't change.

You did a good thing by not just shrugging this man off. He may have seemed flippant to you, but he was probably thinking of how stupid he would've been to go through with it. I bet he sees you as a real human being now, and not just a doc.

That sounded way too depressing. It's a beautiful day, I just took my after lunch dose of drugs, work is quiet and it's FRIDAY!!! Looking forward to movie weekend with the husband. It's "Cabaret" and "Lawrence of Arabia". Still can't believe he's 53 and hasn't seen either. Gonna make him make me some fried zucchini. Best I've ever had.

[Never Stop Dancin]

26. Why

is someone who fixes PCs taking dental calls?

[PCIntern]

27. "Welcome to DU" n/t

[demtenjeep]

32. I wish you lived in KS

just saying

[Snoutport]

30. Politically Correct Intern?

I don't know the good Dr. personally but I think he fixes people...not computers. (perhaps both, he does sound kind of handy with a pair of pliers)

Welcome to DU!

[sabrina 1]

28. You are a good person.

[MadMaddie]

29. Thanks for helping the fellow. I think that many forget that

pain tolerance is different for everyone. His pain tolerance must have been very low and in that much pain even crazy things seem rational to end the pain.

[Bonobo]

31. Do you know how many Americans go to Emergency rooms or do their own extractions?

Some, perhaps many, poor Americans have to wait for their teeth to get so bad that they can have them removed at Emergency rooms or even do the extractions themselves.

Dental care IS health care and it is a shame -truly a SHAME - that so many Americans cannot get basic dental care due to the high cost.

--------------
Below are some average dental prices for a few States (As of July 15, 2004). The range in price accounts for the variations between cities within each State. The first number in the range is one of the lowest rates charged for that particular service in that State and the second number is one of the highest rates charged for a particular service.

In California, the average costs for dental care:
A full set of x-rays: $101 to $147
An adult cleaning and exam: $70 to $102
A child’s cleaning and exam: $49 to $71
Child’s fluoride treatment: $42 to $61
Sealants per tooth: $35 to $51
Comprehensive orthodontic youth care: $5,000-$5,300
Comprehensive orthodontic adolescent care: $5,000-$6,000

Note - In California, low-income families and low-income individuals who meet specific criteria are eligible for Medi-Cal, California’s Medicaid program. The program provides health care services to those who otherwise couldn’t afford health care. Dental care services are included as well.

(Washington State offers something similar called CHIP or Children’s Health Insurance Program and Medicaid for low-income families if they meet certain criteria. Medicaid doesn’t always include dental care, but CHIP does offer both dental care and vision.)

In Georgia, the average costs for dental care:
A full set of x-rays: $88-$113
An adult cleaning and exam: $61-$83
A child’s cleaning and exam: $43-$60
Child’s fluoride treatment: $37-$46
Sealants per tooth: $31-$42
Comprehensive orthodontic youth care: $4,700-$5,100
Comprehensive orthodontic adolescent care: $5,900

In Ohio, the average costs for dental care:
A full set of x-rays: $98-$119
An adult cleaning and exam: $65-$89
A child’s cleaning and exam: $46-$64
Child’s fluoride treatment: $39-$46
Sealants per tooth: $33-$42
Comprehensive orthodontic youth care: $4,700-$5,600
Comprehensive orthodontic adolescent care: $5,000 -$5,900

In Texas, the average costs for dental care:
A full set of x-rays: $83-$106
An adult cleaning and exam: $58-$78
A child’s cleaning and exam: $40-$56
Child’s fluoride treatment: $35-$43
Sealants per tooth: $29-$39
Comprehensive orthodontic youth care: $4,300-$5,200
Comprehensive orthodontic adolescent care: $4,600 -$5,500

In Florida, the average costs for dental care:
A full set of x-rays: $93-$122
An adult cleaning and exam: $64-$90
A child’s cleaning and exam: $45-$65
Child’s fluoride treatment: $39-$47
Sealants per tooth: $32-$43
Comprehensive orthodontic youth care: $4,800-$5,700
Comprehensive orthodontic adolescent care: $5,100 -$6,000

In Massachusetts, the average costs for dental care:
A full set of x-rays: $134-$162
An adult cleaning and exam: $93-$119
A child’s cleaning and exam: $65-$86
Child’s fluoride treatment: $56-$65
Sealants per tooth: $47-$60
Comprehensive orthodontic youth care: $6,700-$7,900
Comprehensive orthodontic adolescent care: $7,100 -$8,400

In Colorado, the average costs for dental care:
A full set of x-rays: $98-$118
An adult cleaning and exam: $68-$87
A child’s cleaning and exam: $48-$63
Child’s fluoride treatment: $41-$48
Sealants per tooth: $34-$44
Comprehensive orthodontic youth care: $4,900-$5,800
Comprehensive orthodontic adolescent care: $5,200 -$6,100
In looking over these numbers, it seems that Ohio has some of the lowest average dental prices for dental procedures in comparison to the other States listed here.

If my child needed orthodontic care, I wouldn’t want to live in Massachusetts! ;)

[Maru Kitteh]

51. + a brazillion. n/t

[readmoreoften]

85. +1

[Cerridwen]

34. I know that pain.

It's horrifying what pain can do to the human mind. I've experienced it as tooth pain and back pain.

With tooth pain you cannot eat or drink...anything. You cannot sleep. Depending on your financial circumstances and your dentist's schedule, if, in fact you have a dentist, you can be subjected to the pain for days...weeks...or, if your financial situation is dire...

Amazingly enough, back pain of that intensity is much the same.

Imagine going hours, much less days or weeks, with a pain so intense you do not sleep, eat, cannot think, cannot drink away, cannot in any way alleviate. OTC does nothing. Alcohol does nothing. Pot does nothing. Imagine that pain.

There was a movie some years back about a doctor who became a patient diagnosed with and treated for terminal cancer.

I'm glad you helped this man.

I know that pain.

[donheld]

36. I came close to that 10 years ago

I contracted Epiglottitis. I went to Kaiser they passed it off as your general allergy/cold type thing and sent me on my way. This was on a Saturday. By Tuesday is was in SO much pain, and could not swallow even saliva. I finally went back to Kaiser and said you HAVE to do something. They were about to send me away again, when finally an Ear Nose & Throat Doctor agreed to put a scope in and look. I had never heard of Epiglottitis before this. The pain was so intense in was either find a way to stop the pain. Or...

I was lucky. Monday night I took 20 milligrams of valium so I could sleep. Hindsight that wasn't a good Idea.

[ChoppinBroccoli]

37. Well, That Explains Why His Tooth Was In Such Bad Shape

He should have been using a toothbrush instead of a gun. That boy was just confused. A gun isn't very effective at getting your teeth clean.

[The Unawriter]

38. I've never had a problem with dentists

Hey, as long as I'm getting the happy gas, DRILL, BABY, DRILL!

[Maru Kitteh]

40. Did you not get ANY psych training AT ALL? EVER?

See how defensive you feel right now?






Yeah. That was not the way to handle this.

[EFerrari]

44. I was sitting here trying to figure out why screaming at someone

who tells you their pain was so bad they wanted to kill themselves got 35 votes.

[Maru Kitteh]

45. As was I. I still can't figure it out. You can't berate people into a state of wellness.

I am mystified by this.

An appropriate reaction by a PROFESSIONAL might have been. "My goodness, you certainly were in a lot of pain. Have you ever had thoughts of harming yourself before this awful tooth problem?"

[EFerrari]

48. Even if you do free or cheaper work for someone

that isn't a free pass to verbally abuse a vulnerable person who comes to you for help. Or, that's what this transaction looks like.

[Maru Kitteh]

49. You're right. After one agrees to provide service, fee should not matter.

and professional decorum - well shit - everybody may slip but being PROUD of it and posting it on a public forum? . . . not a good sign.

[chrisa]

62. My gosh. Calm down.

He never said he was proud of it and he never yelled at the guy. He just said he almost did. That's a normal reaction for someone who is shocked to hear something like that and never dealt with people like this before.

Why not concentrate on the fact that what was causing the guy to put the gun in his mouth in the first place is fixed?

[Bonobo]

52. Maybe it stands for "pretty callous"? nt

[PCIntern]

54. You know...

if you were standing in front of someone who just told you that they'd been putting a gun in their mouths because they had a toothache, you'd react too. Maybe when you're a clinician and deal with people from an authoritarian/authoritative/empathetic perspective, you can then lecture those of us who do this successfully for decades how to manage people.

Maybe this guy will go home having seen my visceral reaction and know that it wasn't the right thing to do under any circumstances.

"Aw shucks" doesn't work, pal.

[Mira]

57. A: You helped B: You taught

I consider your reaction appropriate because as you say "Aw shucks" is not.
You are a professional who in essence emotionally Karate chopped him into never forgetting that such a thing is not to be considered.
You had clout, and you used it.

You probably saved his life in advance of the next time.

[PCIntern]

60. Thank you...I know YOU "get it"...

all this Faux "humanism" on these boards these days..."Oh, you were too harsh, people need understanding, they need compassion, and tears, and empathy."

Well, they often DO, but sometimes, they need a kick in the ass. Anyone who tell me otherwise has never ever been in responsible authority with consistently successful outcomes. People cry out for structure, for admonishment, for authoritarian/authoritative behavior. Kids do, certainly - so do "adults" - my question to myself at any given instant: are there any adults in this room? Often times the answer is "not many", even though there are plenty of people 'of age'.

[pipi_k]

69. the kick in the ass

The only thing I can say here is that nobody can know from meeting someone for the very first time whether that person needs a kick in the ass, or what the reaction would be.


Like I said somewhere else in this thread, I've been subjected to some really nasty shit from medical "professionals" who probably also figured I needed a "kick in the ass".

Trouble is, they didn't know me, and they probably didn't care what sort of effect it would have...i.e. making a medical phobia even worse.

Really. Imagine being absolutely terrified of something and somebody else berates you for not doing the thing you're afraid of. Now you have SHAME on top of the terror.


So I'm wondering...if someone doesn't have money or insurance, how is giving that person a kick in the ass going to help?

If a person is scared shitless, how is giving him a kick in the ass going to help?

People generally don't enjoy being in that much pain, so there has to be some huge reason why they don't take care of it immediately. Shaming someone for something he might not be able to control might seem like a great idea at the time. But, again...from the POV of a terror-stricken patient...it can often do more harm than good.

[Mira]

74. Unconscious competence often takes over. We live

and learn all the time. Our subconscious is always working and computing our potential behavior based on the learning we have internalized.
It is all in the motives.
If your motives are pure, in a time of stress which this was for both the patient and the doctor, then what comes forth is in all probability the correct action or word at the moment.

Trust yourself, and then others will as well.

I think nothing harmful happened here and the side line quarterbacking (I don't know sports but I hope that means talking about something you are not personally involved in) is rampant here.

Examine why you might want to know more than the person who was in the spot at the time, and be so critical from the observation booth.
We're all in our own back yards and do what we can to be helpful to others. It's different for all of us.

Many whom I had to give a kick in the ass have thanked me later.
Last time was just yesterday for a kick in the ass I gave him 20 some years ago, and it was well remembered and permanently internalized.

[pipi_k]

80. It's not so much the interaction itself that's got me a little annoyed...

Because the OP said he didn't scream at the guy. OK I get that part.

What annoys me is the later justification for "kicking ass"...like for any future incidents.

I don't believe I was being critical as much as offering some advice from the perspective of one who can identify with the poor guy who considered suicide rather than seeing a dentist.

The only thing that can cause that is stark terror. Giving someone a lecture on how loaded guns should only be pointed at things you intend to kill sounds like something that one would say to a five year old...not an adult who likely has a terrible anxiety problem, is probably already ashamed of it, and knows that suicide isn't a good option but was suffering in the pits of hell.

That is the only way I can describe it.

Stark terror vs. pain.

Yes, there are times when a kick in the ass might motivate someone. But kicking someone who is already down is just mean. When someone is down the best thing to do is offer a hand up.

Or just walk away.

But don't kick the person.

[EFerrari]

72. Screaming is not generally considered a teaching tool. n/t

[pipi_k]

76. What would have been a better teaching moment...

After hearing what the guy almost did, a better response would have been...

"I understand. You're probably very afraid of dentists. But I really care about your oral health, and if you like we could set up a consultation appointment to discuss ways of making it easier for you to come here regularly."


Tell you what...if a dentist said that to me, I'd worship him for life.


There are all sorts of dental clinics that advertise themselves as catering to "dental chickens".

Here's one...

http://www.dentalchickens.com/html/11cater.html


I bet they have a booming business.

[pipi_k]

67. Yes, he knows it now...

and I imagine he knew it before, when he was in all that pain. Otherwise he would have pulled the trigger.

From a phobic patient's point of view, though, all I can tell you is what would help me feel better about going back to a particular dentist or doctor. Or any one at all.

I would really like for people in the medical field to have to take sensitivity training. I don't know if it's just plain impatience, or busy schedules, or what. But I've been subjected to the most awful attitudes from medical people, and for someone with a phobia, it only makes things worse.

I've also known some very understanding and compassionate medical professionals.

And the sad thing is, it always seems like the compassionate ones aren't meant to be. My PCP was the most awesome doctor I ever knew. She understood perfectly what it was like. Well, she had twins and left her practice. Another guy...a dermatologist...I had to have something removed. He and his assistant were great. He died soon after. The ear, nose, and throat guy who removed my kids' tonsils after so many infections where nobody else would. Excellent guy. Died in a car accident.

Anyway, please try not to be shocked or outraged at the things patients tell you. Take a breath if you need to, and just tell the person you understand. That's all. You understand and you're glad you could help him. Who knows...the person you give understanding to could very well trust you enough to be a regular patient.

[PCIntern]

79. Oh please....

you try doing this with 75 people a day, with all the vagaries of human beings and their ills, and have someone tell you that they had put a gun in their mouth, and you tell me that you would just sit there and say, Gee whillikers...

when I say that I almost screamed at him, it was the way that you scold a child who tries to run into the busy highway. It is knee-jerk.

Believe me, I don't have 8-10 thousand patients of record b/c I'm insensitive to their needs - also, you didn't happen to mention the fact that a young man carrying a weapon who might discharge it into his mouth, might consider discharging it into someone else's just 'because'. No one here addressed that issue as of yet...

[pipi_k]

81. So you personally

see 75 phobic patients a day?

I doubt it.

That many phobic patients are highly unlikely to show up in any one office in the course of a day unless it's a therapist's office.

In any case, my suggestion about telling the person you understand and that you would be willing to set up another appointment to discuss ways of making things easier would have taken all of 15 seconds...maybe 30...out of your busy day. And probably would have made a guy who was already feeling like shit feel way better about himself.


And yes, I get it that you didn't scream at him. Really...I get that part.

It's the whole "sometimes you gotta kick ass" attitude that sounds kind of shitty. Like if you hadn't been able to control yourself, yelling and screaming at him would actually have been OK.

Not true, maybe, but that's the impression I'm getting here.



As far as a young man who would consider discharging a weapon into someone else because he would do it to himself, if that's a real fear, then my suggestion to you is to do gun checks at the door.

It could happen just as easily with someone who never says a word about wanting to shoot himself. It could happen while someone is in the chair and all of a sudden he just pulls out the weapon and starts shooting. Or someone else walks in and is pissed off about a bill. Bang...bang...bang.

So what, now people who have considered suicide (by whatever weapon) are going to be stigmatized? Or ostracized? Or looked at with suspicion? Because, by god, if they'd do it to themselves, then they'd do it to someone else?

That sucks. Really.

[PCIntern]

82. You know, I wasn't going to answer your post because you obviously

have an agenda and as most people who have an agenda do, you missed the point of the OP and the follow-up's which I made in order to explain the specific circumstances to you, but obviously again, to no avail.

You're not a clinician and you don't get it. Now just stop hyperventilating and trying to come up with your answer before you've read this: the fact of the matter is that shock and awe does work clinically when appropriately applied to the individual who does not process your brand of feel-goodism. Sorry to tell you this but I began my practice treating dental phobics in a program coordinated by Temple University Dental School back in 1980 and I know a whole lot more about treating phobics than you do. This man was not a phobic: he was a suffering individual who was crying out for love and attention and I gave it to him and he was appreciative in all ways. The number of times he shook my hand and thanked me on the way out was a testament to the all-around success of the treatment.

You cannot begin to hope to understand the nature of daily clinical practice in my field. I don't give a damn what you've read, how you feel, to whom you've spoken, or self-help books you've read or written. I have a huge word-of-mouth practice and have been rated the number one dentist in the local Checkbook magazine reviews of dentists entirely because I listen to people and treat everyone specially according to his or her needs. Of course, there are situations which pose themselves which are unusual and as a veteran of 34 years of clinical practice, never having been sued or accosted by a patient, I am able to react appropriately to the cues which are proffered.

Your opinion of me, without regard to my experience and the positive outcome of the particular case to which I referred is without merit and specious. I bid you a good night.

[EFerrari]

73. Having a reaction is human.

Claiming that reaction is some kind of professional tool is bs. The public doesn't go to clinicians for their emotional reactions but for their skill and hopefully, for their judgment.

[chrisa]

63. Fixing someone's painful tooth isn't what I would call "callous."

[Maru Kitteh]

47. Thank you also for allowing me to remember to unrec. n/t

[Mopar151]

59. Have you had serious pain AT ALL? EVER?

Then you'd know how crazy it makes you - and how having someone pooh-pooh it (particularly a medical professional) is absolutely infuriating! I would be reassured by PC's reaction, were I a paitent - at least I would know somebody in the world gives a shit!

[PCIntern]

61. Mopar:

People who post 'stuff' like the one you're responding to are just trying to stir a pot. They would probably go home and tell the story as though it were some kind of joke and their compatriots would find it funny - like one of those Darwin Awards e-mails. I told my family at dinner and they were just horrified - you could have heard a pin drop - Mrs. Intern was appalled and frightened by it, my kid, home from college was bewildered.

You are absolutely right: I do give a shit about these people. Many of us do. we're not all the horrible human beings as portrayed in the "listen to what happened to me at the doctor/dentist/podiatrist office today". Some are horrible, most not.

[joshcryer]

87. You rock.

[defendandprotect]

42. Well done -- !!

:)

[Maru Kitteh]

46. FOR WHAT?

please, explain.

[kickysnana]

50. When no dentists would take MN MA except community based clinics..

a wonderful dentist there got a dispensation (I think possibly he did it pro-bono but I am not sure) from her old professor a maxofacial oral surgeon because I had a disgusting staff infection above the teeth, bellow the sinuses (in no man's land I was told) that just would not go away. I won't go into detail but it was a two year ordeal and cost me a job.

I was in the waiting room waiting to have a recheck and stitches removed and a fellow came in crying in pain asking if they would extract a broken infected molar. He had just come from an oral surgeon a block away and had been off blood thinners for 6 days to have the work done, had an appointment but they had refused to do it. This office would need a pre-approval which would take 24-48 hours. For once I had some knowledge that could help him. One hospital in the twin cities has an oral surgeon/maxo facial surgeon on call and I had been told that if my infection got worse (brain symptoms) that is where I should go. We took up a collection for a cab and sent him off to that hospital.

Now of course there is no MA dental coverage, duh.You get to wondering how many people are suffering mightily at any given time due to meanness on the part of our uber rich overlords.

[GeorgeGist]

55. Good.

I'm really tired of the shit you make up.

[PCIntern]

58. Nice post, Thanks!!!

Your friend,

PC

P.S.: Would that I were this crative, I'd be an author instead of a dentist. and I wouldn't be writing missives for you to denigrate.

[Taitertots]

64. Untreated dental problems are the untold horror stories of America

Some Americans(hint: not rich) have to wait until they are near suicide to get dental treatment.

[PCIntern]

68. It is pervasive...

when I walk down the street, there are many many people quietly holding their faces because of the dental pain. there's a particular manner of touching (cradling) which is different than simply
"walking that way".

[anneboleyn]

70. Thank you for treating this man. Republican health care = killing patients off rather than treating

them. The republicans would have it this way -- that patients die off of disease (or by their own hands in this case due to untreated, severe pain) rather than get treatment as they don't want universal health care and are doing their very best to dismantle medicare.