America Needs Texas

[MrScorpio]

Rick Perry and his secessionist leanings can go to hell.

[trueblue2007]

1. no we don't. i'm not crazy about Texas

[Tx4obama]

4. And probably Texas is not too crazy about you.

Texas has become more PURPLE than red.

In 2008 OBAMA won ALL of our biggest cities/counties except for one (McCain won Ft.Worth)
Obama won Dallas, Austin/Travis, Houston/Harris, El Paso, San Antonio, etc.

There are TONS of democrats down here in Texas and a hell of a lot of people that do NOT support Rick Perry.

p.s. I am sure that if you tell us the state you live in we can find a few nuts in politics there too ;)

[trueblue2007]

15. there are NO nuts in my state

[Hangingon]

35. Too embarrassed to reveal your state?

[kentauros]

36. Oh THAT'S rich!

:rofl:

Politics

The state has been thought of as politically split by the Cascade Range, with western Oregon being liberal and Eastern Oregon being conservative. In a 2008 analysis of the 2004 presidential election, a political analyst found that according to the application of a Likert scale, Oregon boasted both the most liberal voters and the most conservative voters, making it the most politically polarized state in the country.

And don't take just Wikipedia's word for it. I don't know how many times I've seen your fellow Oregonian-DUers complaining about the conservative nuts in Eastern Oregon ;)

[idiotgardener]

40. Bad grammar.

Here it is corrected:

There are a no. of nuts in my state.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

34. I hear this all the time.....

Perry's going to lose....

Cornyn's going to lose....

Bailey Hutchenson is going down.....

And yet everytime, they win by comfortable margins.

Yeah, I know a lot of people don't like them....it's a big state with a lot of people. But don't piss on my shoe and say it's raining.

[angel823]

37. well said

indeed.

[RKP5637]

2. Is he starting that crap up again? Maybe it never went away? n/t

[MannyGoldstein]

3. Why do we need them?

I'd like to see the East Coast blue states break away and form our own, sane, entity.

[Tx4obama]

5. It is illegal for 'any' state to secede from the union. The only thing Texas can do legally is ....

break into four smaller states.

The United States of America will stay 'united' no matter what anyone says ;)

[MannyGoldstein]

18. I believe that it's just not legal, rather than being illegal

In any case, we can pass a Constitutional amendment and all will be well.

[DeadEyeDyck]

12. I have been advocating that for years.

Look, there are basically two Americas. As one who grew up outside of the US, I think I have an objective viewpoint.
One America is the Cowboy, freedom, independence, "leave me alone with my guns and bible" America.
The other America is about being safe and peaceful. An America where you are guaranteed medical care, a respectable job, public transportation, healthcare, government housing, programs to insure that everyone has the basic requirements to live.

Maybe secession is too strong but what about a virtual secession? After a warning period, people could make a decision to which America they believe in and want to live under. Once you are registered, you cannot easily switch (game the system). To do so, you must petition the government you belong too and seek permissioin to the one you which to join. That way, if you were given a free education and became an engineer, you could not just just the fence to the raw capitalism and get rich without paying back.

If you decide you are progressive, you would be eligible for all the progressive programs, etc. If you are a conservative, you would have to fend for yourself though you would not be required to pay for programs for which you are not eligible. To whatever extent, the two systems would be split. Progressives might get free education, housing, medical care and housing but would be taxed accordingly. Or maybe would in a payless society where everything is free. The conservatives might live in a society under the gold standard, pay for education, highway access, anti-gay marraige, flag-flying boyscouts parade life.

The "Cowboys" would be in their own club where they have to buy everything and have nothing provided. The taxes they pay would be determined by their "wild-west" system. But they get nothing from the progressive side.

Now, people could quit bitching about the government since it would be the one of their choosing. People would also have to walk their talk. We would see who wants to really live with social security, medicare and other entitlement programs. We could see who wants to live without the protections of government regulators, wearing guns on their hips and playing Wild Earp.

There would still be issues of environment since it is NOT virtual but it is a start and would be very educational.

[MannyGoldstein]

19. Sounds similar to increasing state's rights. nt

[WatsonT]

25. That's an argument for federalism with a strong states rights bent

Let the voters of each state decide how much government they want to have and the federal government oversees major things like wars, diplomacy and multi-state disasters.

[DeadEyeDyck]

44. I guess so but I was putting it on an individual level,

rather than a geographic level. The real purpose would be an educational tool.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

6. America needs Taxes, Texas not so much. n/t

[Glimmer of Hope]

7. Austin for sure.

[kentauros]

39. Austin has its problems, too, thanks to people moving there

from conservative areas of the state and country.

It's too bad people only think of Austin when they think of Liberalism in Texas, but Houston has at least as much to offer. Not to mention the first openly lesbian mayor in the entire country. And that wasn't even an issue among her opposition. Try that anywhere else in the country and see what happens...

And just to have it in this thread again (as there appear to be a few new members here) I have a thread for y'all to read: Texas. And DU. :hi:

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RainDog]

9. I would sort of find it interesting if the empire broke into smaller nations

and, honestly, I think it might be better for all of us.

I'm reading about the break up of the Soviet Empire and it really started (contrary to the myth in the U.S.) with party-line communists in good standing who recognized their system was no longing functioning to serve the needs of the people - and so, from INSIDE the communist system, Hungary, followed by Poland, with the tacit approval of Gorbachev, instituted economic and political (electoral) change - so that more than one party could run and win an election.

we're not the same - but we do face some seemingly unresolvable differences among people who are not willing to accept the others' view of how political life should be lived. I know I cannot accept as anything approaching correct positions on the right regarding female choice and health care, for instance.

without Texas, I bet we wouldn't have to waste money on oil co subsidies and could turn our focus to renewable energy sources - and Texas can be like Saudi Arabia, begging to keep the price of gas low, because fewer people would require as much of it - esp. if other places can invest in high-speed rail and other projects that are not meant to make money for Texas.

And when they want to teach that 6000 y/o earth theory to future geologists for the oil industry - good luck.

[AlanCranston]

10. uh oh is this another bash Texas thread

they are people just like us who suffer from everyday problems we do. Many of the voters aren't bad people by any means, they're just misguided. I think that Scott Brown's success in Massachusetts shows that we should seriously contest the open senate seat in Texas.

[RainDog]

21. no. it's not a bash Texas thread

I detest the politics of the state where I live. I live in what is called a "liberal oasis" in that state - and honestly don't consider myself a resident of the state - my home is the town where I live... I'm not originally from this state so that has something to do with it - I don't share a past beyond moving here as an adult.

the analogy in Tx would be Austin and people who move there for UT and stay. btw, I've actually lived in Texas, briefly, and have family members there. --and I'm from the south - so, when I mention this, I'm talking about many places, not just Texas. and not just the south. but b/c I'm from the south, I'm most familiar with that brand of right winger-ism.

the reason I stay where I do is the reason most people stay where they do - I have family members here that I love and want to be with - but I have interviewed for jobs elsewhere and wouldn't hesitate to move to a place that made me feel more at home - cause then my family members could also relocate more easily if they chose.

so, I understand that there are people with various povs in different states - but what I'm talking about is the paralysis that is part of political life at this time b/c there is no compromise possible on some issues - even when majorities across states support this or that policy. since it doesn't seem to make a difference if the population centers of states are more liberal - and since some of us think this stalemate is going to lead to even more horrid problems b/c we cannot address them - it seems like creating intentional communities that are interested in the same way of approaching issues of energy and infrastructure and health care would be a lot more effective than what's going on now.

[WatsonT]

26. You do realize Texas isn't producing that much oil

the comparison to Saudi Arabia is inaccurate.

Also we have the second largest economy in the country, just behind California, contribute a net positive to the federal budget, and have a myriad of industries that have nothing to do with oil.

[RainDog]

30. good. then that 4 billion in subsidies to the oil industry can go elsewhere

like toward building regional sustainable energy infrastructure.

but since you mention it, since Texas is such an important economy, I do have to wonder why it ranks as #2 in the nation for children in poverty and 48th in the nation in per capita funding for public health, among the bottom 10 for mothers receiving prenatal care, number one in manufacturing pollution and in violations of the clean air act, while scraping the bottom on quality of life issues like public parks, spending for the arts, affordable housing and - no doubt b/c of many of these things - also scraping the bottom on rankings for the best place to raise children.

http://www.knowthecandidates.org/ktc/bushtexasranks.htm

-- these are the sorts of issues I'm talking about when I say that we, as a nation, do not share common goals or values with those who, in Texas and other states, view these sorts of issues so differently.

at the same time, I recognize that not all Texans support the way their state views its responsibility to citizens in such a wealthy economy. the way a state becomes such a cesspool for average citizens is by having enough people who will vote to support policies that are not in their interests. the way this seems to happen in the U.S. is by an appeal to right wing religious thought.

the Texas gop platform is a case study in such political madness, imo.

[WatsonT]

31. Ok, and you can fill your car up with snide condescension instead of gasoline

[RainDog]

33. what - facts bother you so much that you call them snide?

I didn't create the current political situation in this nation - but because I note the reality of this large economy - that's snide?

luckily for me, I live in a situation in which I could bike to work every day if need be - and bike to the grocery store, too. And to any other necessity in life. but that's also about choices I made long ago in life - including the sort of community in which to live - based upon my values.

Texas has different values, I suppose.

[WatsonT]

41. You presented Texas as an unneccesary state that merely drills for oil

Our Saudi Arabia, as you said.

That is not a fact. That is solidly based on ignorance.

"luckily for me, I live in a situation in which I could bike to work every day if need be - and bike to the grocery store, too. And to any other necessity in life. but that's also about choices I made long ago in life - including the sort of community in which to live - based upon my values. "

Luckily for you you also don't eat (agriculture is heavily dependent on oil), use commodities (shipping requires oil) or use anything made of plastic (like say a computer) or anything run on electricity (like say the internet).

[RainDog]

43. LOL. read closelier

h/t south park for the word I love... closelier.

your paraphrase isn't what I said. in fact, if you read what I said, I talked about more than just Texas.

I eat locally, have a great farmer's mkt, my own garden and fruit trees and bushes - another "lifestyle" choice - and, as I said, chose, consciously chose not to live somewhere that thinks being near a feeder road is "close" - I don't shop at malls (tho one is close enough for me to get to by bike), don't care about accumulating a bunch of crap -

but all that really isn't the issue. the issue is you have decided to take issue with me b/c I said something that you don't like - even tho it's true - that Texas is one of the worst places in the nation to live - if you don't like that I said it - I can't help it that those stats reflect the values of Texas pols who make policy.

you're not going to change those stats by arguing with me so I'm done with this.

[WatsonT]

45. No, you did compare Texas to Saudi Arabia

go back and check.

And your computer is made of hemp and runs on unicorn smiles I suppose? Oh right, you don't have a computer do you? :-)

"that Texas is one of the worst places in the nation to live"

You keep saying this as if it were true, when in reality you posted a few stats and came up with this entire mantra from those. Texas is far from the worst place to live. We have one of the best economies and unemployment situations in the country at the moment. It's cheap to live here, we have among the best hospitals and colleges in the nation, and so on.

It's easy to handpick one data point and make conclusions from that. Easy, but meaningless.

For instance, washington state is worst in beastiality. But I'd hardly call the state terrible simply by that metric.

Here, see what makes your state "the worst in the nation".

?w=385&h=302

[Redford]

11. I Love Texas

would not live anywhere else even if we have to say goodbye to the rest of the US.....

[idiotgardener]

13. Sorry your thread is being used as yet another place

for people with prejudices to display them.

I do believe the U.S. is better off with Texas in it, but sometimes I think one of the country's main problems is that it's just too big.

[tim_whatley_dentist]

14. re

The economy of Texas is one of the largest and most rapidly growing economies in the United States. In 2006, Texas was home to six of the top 50 companies on the Fortune 500 list and 57 overall, tied with California.<1> Texas has an economy that was the second largest in the nation and the 15th largest in the world based on GDP (nominal) figures. As the largest exporter of goods in the United States, Texas currently grosses more than $100 billion a year in trade with other nations.

In 2008, Texas had a gross state product of $1.224 trillion,<2><3> the second highest in the U.S.

Have you ever seen the Port of Houston? Do you know how much Americans would pay for a gallon of gas w/o Texas?

Non-Texans who think America would be better off without Texas are as dumb as Texans who think Texas would be better off without America.

[Fleshdancer]

16. Thanks! And welcome to DU

:hi:

[seabeyond]

28. Non-Texans who think America would be better off without Texas are as dumb as Texans who think Texas

Non-Texans who think America would be better off without Texas are as dumb as Texans who think Texas would be better off without America

perfectly said

[WatsonT]

32. And yet many here seem to think it's a desert with oil wells and nothing more

"Non-Texans who think America would be better off without Texas are as dumb as Texans who think Texas would be better off without America."

Unfortunately the latter are derided while the former are seen as witty and nuanced.

[ohnoyoudidnt]

17. What about Alaska?

Let's give that to the teabaggers so they can all move there.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Codeine]

22. Why?

I'm not disagreeing with you, but you saying so doesn't make it so.

[RB TexLa]

23. America doesn't need any one state at all. If any of the 50 were allowed to leave

everything would be fine.

[Javaman]

24. Excuse me, I'm in Austin. Thank you very much.

and while I think cement head perry needs to take a long walk off a short pier, please do not lump my fine city in with the rest of this halfwit state.

I could say a few things about MI, but I will just say, good day.

[seabeyond]

27. excuse me? i may not be in austin, but i dont consider myself a halfwit.

wink....

[Ichingcarpenter]

29. America Needs both Dollars and Taxes

Just giving some of my Marx to the board.

[socialist_n_TN]

38. This can be read a couple of different ways..........

Isn't Texas on of the net receiving states when it comes to tax dollars? IOW, doesn't it get back more federal tax dollars than it pays in? If it is, then the other states in the union would get a net gain of their federal dollars without Texas taking a larger share.

Also remember that it's not the UNIONISTS that are yelling about seccession, it's a lot of Texans. So it's probably a legitimate topic of, at least, discussion.

I also live in a blue dot in a red state, so I can relate to the urban areas of Texas. The problem becomes that no matter HOW liberal your area is, the overall state legislature can overrule ANY progressive move you make. That happened here recently.

I'd rather not see anybody secede BTW, but I'm thinking more and more that the ultimate result of our political differences WILL wind up being balkenization.

[kjackson227]

42. Well, here we go with the flamebait "hate Texas" thread...

Look, I'm not happy that we have an idiot for governor, but there are other states that have equally idiotic governors and senators or more so besides Texas. Tricky Slick Rick Perry has stated this for years, nothing new, so why the need to rehash old news???

[KamaAina]

47. Goodhair Perry is no longer even in the bottom ten of governors

the new wave of teabagger whackjobs -- many if not most of whom are in the North: Walker, Snyder, Kasich, Corbett, Christie, LePage -- has left him in the dust.

[RegieRocker]

46. We don't need Tex Ass