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SoDesuKa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-02-11 06:36 PM
Original message
Iran's Nukes - Another Bogus Issue
Despite all the noise, it looks like Iran isn't developing nuclear weapons after all. Like Saddam's WMD's, it's just official spin. This is yet another bogus issue started and maintained by people with an interest in promoting a lie.

"Seymour Hersh has a new article in The New Yorker arguing that there is no credible evidence that Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons; to the contrary, he writes, 'the U.S. could be in danger of repeating a mistake similar to the one made with Saddam Hussein's Iraq eight years ago -- allowing anxieties about the policies of a tyrannical regime to distort our estimates of the state's military capacities and intentions.' . . ."

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/

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John_Adams Donating Member (110 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-02-11 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. I don't really understand the Iran nuclear issue.
Whether or not they need to develop nuclear weapons is question for the Iranian Dept. of Defense (or whatever they call it).
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Shagbark Hickory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-02-11 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Well they sorta kicked the proverbial ant hill when they said they want to wipe israel off the map.
Then it sorta became everyone's business and rightfully so, IMO.
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John_Adams Donating Member (110 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 04:49 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Please help me with my memory.
When was the last time Iran started a war?
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14thColony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. ...
Edited on Fri Jun-03-11 07:43 AM by 14thColony
Consolidated with previous response.
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John_Adams Donating Member (110 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. The correct answer is: Iran has never started a war. Never.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Iran has started wars before.
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John_Adams Donating Member (110 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. You neglected to finish you post...
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14thColony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. You're referring, no doubt, to Ahmadinejad's 2005 speech
Edited on Fri Jun-03-11 07:44 AM by 14thColony
In which he not only didn't say that, he was quoting a passage from Ayatollah Khomeini (who also didn't say that). Taking "the regime that now occupies Jerusalem must fade from the pages of time/history" and turning it into "we must wipe Israel off the face of the earth" wasn't even a very good attempt at manipulation by whoever fed it to the western press. I guess they assumed nobody outside Iran could read Farsi.

http://antiwar.com/orig/norouzi.php?articleid=11025
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/11/weekinreview/11bronner.html
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12790.htm

The Iranian government has done plenty of real live no-kidding evil stuff to get pissed off about, but this "mistaken translation" (self-serving hoax) isn't one of them.
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Shagbark Hickory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. OK well western press was all I had to go by.
Edited on Fri Jun-03-11 08:31 AM by Shagbark Hickory
Whether it's true, I can't say with certitude if it was misinterpreted, but the guy says some pretty provocative things (I don't think there's any debating that, is there) and IMO we should take the threat of their nuclear armament seriously.
That doesn't mean we should invade their country but sorta how if my next door neighbor said they plan to install a sewage tank in his back yard, I have reason to be concerned and frankly all nuclear programs are the world's business.
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iemitsu Donating Member (524 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-02-11 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. us/iranian relationships are complicated.
from the cia overthrow of the democratically elected government of iran in 1954 to the weapons for hostages deal that bush/reagan pulled off in 1979 there is a lot at stake to keeping those with knowledge of these events at arms length. it is, in fact, better to demonize and discredit them before letting anyone hear anything they might say.
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. CIA overthrow of democratically elected Iranian government
Read about it here:

A 'great venture': overthrowing the government of Iran
by Mark Curtis

In August 1953 a coup overthrew Iran's nationalist government of Mohammed Musaddiq and installed the Shah in power. The Shah subsequently used widespread repression and torture in a dictatorship that lasted until the 1979 Islamic revolution. The 1953 coup is conventionally regarded primarily as a CIA operation, yet the planning record reveals not only that Britain was the prime mover in the initial project to overthrow the government but also that British resources contributed significantly to the eventual success of the operation. Two first-hand accounts of the Anglo-American sponsorship of the coup - by the MI6 and CIA officers primarily responsible for it - are useful in reconstructing events. (1) Many of the secret planning documents that reveal the British role have been removed from public access and some of them remain closed until the next century - for reasons of 'national security'. Nevertheless, a fairly clear picture still emerges. Churchill later told the CIA officer responsible for the operation that he 'would have loved nothing better than to have served under your command in this great venture'. (2)

In the 1950s the Anglo Iranian Oil Company (AIOC) - later renamed British Petroleum - which was managed from London and owned by the British government and British private citizens, controlled Iran's main source of income: oil. According to one British official, the AIOC 'has become in effect an imperium in imperio in Persia'. Iranian nationalists objected to the fact that the AIOC not only made revenues from Iranian oil 'greatly in excess of the revenues of the Persian government but dominates the whole economic life of Persia, and therefore impairs her independence'. (3) The AIOC was recognised as 'a great foreign organisation controlling Persia's economic life and destiny'. The British oil business fared well from this state of affairs; the AIOC made £170 million in profits in 1950 alone. (4)

Iranians could also point to AIOC's effectively autonomous rule in the parts of the country where the oilfields lay, its low wage rates and the fact that the Iranian government was being paid royalties of 10% or 12% of the company's net proceeds, whilst the British government received as much as 30% of these in taxes alone. (5) Shown the overcrowded housing afforded to some of the AIOC workers, a British official commented: 'Well, this is just the way all Iranians live'. (6)

snip

When the coup scenario finally began, huge demonstrations proceeded in the streets of Tehran, funded by CIA and MI6 money, $1 million dollars of which was in a safe in the US embassy (57) and £1.5 million which had been delivered by Britain to its agents in Iran, according to the MI6 officer responsible for delivering it. (58)

According to then CIA officer Richard Cottam, 'that mob that came into north Tehran and was decisive in the overthrow was a mercenary mob. It had no ideology. That mob was paid for by American dollars.' (59) One key aspect of the plot was to portray the demonstrating mobs as supporters of the Communist Party - Tudeh - in order to provide a suitable pretext for the coup and the assumption of control by the Shah. Cottam observes that agents working on behalf of the British 'saw the opportunity and sent the people we had under our control into the streets to act as if they were Tudeh. They were more than just provocateurs, they were shock troops, who acted as if they were Tudeh people throwing rocks at mosques and priests'. (60) 'The purpose', Brian Lapping explains, 'was to frighten the majority of Iranians into believing that a victory for Mussadeq would be a victory for the Tudeh, the Soviet Union and irreligion'. (61)

http://www.lobster-magazine.co.uk/articles/l30iran.htm


I wonder how many of those getting their nickers in a knot over Iran's lack of democracy are aware that the CIA and MI6 conspired with treasonous members of the Iranian military to overthrow a democratically elected Iranian Prime Minister, Mohammed Mossadegh. Just to note in passing, it seems their conspiracy involved the use of some false flag terror as well.
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iemitsu Donating Member (524 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. not many in america have a clue
how many democratically elected governments we have overthrown in favor of "friendly" dictators.
i think the number is north of 40 since 1954.
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Ya Tzarone Donating Member (40 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
7. Recommended
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