Announcing DU's first test of the new Edit Request system

[EarlG]

Hi everyone,

You may recall that late last year we http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9569527">proposed a new way for the moderators to deal with rule-breaking posts here at DU. In a nutshell, the Edit Request system works like this: rather than deleting a message which breaks the rules, the moderators will request that the member who posted the message go back and edit it. The message in question will be temporarily hidden from view until the member makes a good faith effort to fix it. The Edit Request system is now ready for testing and we will be rolling it out today.

Please note that at this time we are going to be testing the system on copyright violations only. While we are testing the system, all other rule violations will be dealt with by the moderators in the same way they always have been. That is to say: if there is consensus among the moderators on duty that a post breaks the rules, it will be deleted.

However, if the moderators determine that you have posted a message which breaks our rules for copyrighted material, the new system will kick in and you will be asked to go back and edit the post so that it complies with the rules.

What will happen if I am asked to edit a message?

If the moderators request that you edit one of your messages, you will be notified automatically via private message. During this time you will be blocked from using certain site features: for example you will not be able to post new messages, send private messages, or use the recommend function. If you attempt to do any of these things you'll be informed that you have a pending edit request which needs to be taken care of first.

These notifications will provide you with a link to your http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=edit_requests">Edit Requests page (which can also be found in your Options section). On your Edit Requests page, you will be able to see any pending edit requests, along with the reason for the requests and straightforward options for dealing with them.

As soon as you have edited a message, it will be reappear in the discussion thread exactly where you posted it. Please note that at this time an alert will be sent automatically to the moderators. If your edited version no longer breaks the rules, great -- everyone can move on. However, if your edited version still breaks the rules you will be given no option but to self-delete the message along with a brief 15 minute timeout penalty.

What will I see if other people are asked to edit a message?

When a member is asked to edit a message, the message will be temporarily hidden until they have taken care of the edit request. If you encounter one of these messages, you will see that the subject line has been changed to "Edit requested" and the body of the message has been replaced with some brief explanatory text indicating why the message is currently hidden.

If the member chooses to edit the message, it will reappear on the board as if nothing had happened (as noted above, an automated alert will be sent to the moderators so they can make sure the newly-edited message no longer breaks the rules). If the member chooses to self-delete the message, the subject line will change to "Self-deleted by member" and the body of the message will indicate that the message has been self-deleted.

If the message in question is an OP (Original or Opening Post -- the first message in a thread) then the thread will be temporarily locked while the member takes care of the edit request. If the member chooses to self-delete the OP, the thread will then be permanently locked.

In conclusion

My apologies if any of this seems confusing at the moment -- just know that the system is almost entirely automated and is quite straightforward when you see it working.

Since we are initially using the system for copyright violations only, we do not expect much disruption while we test it out. Hopefully this will be a good way for everyone to get used to seeing the system in action, and ideally it will help to educate people about our copyright rules and we'll actually see fewer rule violations going forward.

I know this is a lot to take in, so please feel free to ask any questions about the new system right here in this thread.

Thanks for reading!

EarlG (DU Admin)

[wndycty]

1. K&R sorta of

I meant to click "recommend" but hit the other one instead.

[ZombieHorde]

66. I recommended this for you. nt

[knowbody0]

2. sweet

[SidDithers]

3. Do you want some posts with blatant copyright violations...

to help with the testing?

Sid

[EarlG]

4. I don't think that will be necessary

But if you see any posts that do break the copyright rules, please go ahead and alert on them so that mods can take care of them.

[blondeatlast]

8. Dammit--as usual, I'm a day late (for realz)! Great feature; thanks. nt

[EFerrari]

5. Do the edit requests use the same menu items as the alert page? n/t

[EarlG]

10. I'm not sure what you mean...?

Could you be a bit more specific?

[EFerrari]

12. When we alert on a post, the alert page has a checkbox list

that we choose from to ID the problem for the mods.

Will edit requests use the same group of items to ID the infraction to the poster?

[EarlG]

20. Okay, got it

The mods use the same exact list of rule infractions when deleting posts that you see when you alert on a post -- when deleting, the mods have to select a reason from that list. During this current test run, if you post something that breaks our rules for copyrighted material and you are asked to edit, you'll see the rule cited on your Edit Requests page as well as on the post that you are being asked to edit ("Do not copy-and-paste entire articles onto this discussion forum. When referencing copyrighted work, post a short excerpt (not exceeding three or four paragraphs) with a link back to the original.") The mods can also add additional comments if they think it will be useful.

Assuming that this test run works and we eventually expand the system to cover all (or most) rule-breaking situations, you'll see the appropriate rule cited on your Edit Requests page and on your problematic post. The list of rules for edit requests will be identical to the list you see when alerting (and identical to the list that the mods currently use for deleting).

[EFerrari]

22. Super. Thanks. n/t

[CaliforniaPeggy]

6. Hmmm...maybe someone should post a test paragraph?

You know, deliberately post something that violates the copyright?

:evilgrin:

Naaah........

I know better, lol!

Thanks for the explanation, my dear EarlG...

:hi:

[Capitalocracy]

7. Let me just repeat that I think this is a great idea.

Much better than just deleting the posts, especially when people didn't intend to break the rules. Good job.

[DCKit]

9. Totally reasonable. nt

[chimpymustgo]

11. Anyway you can leave the poster's name up, after an offensive post is deleted? Embarrassment factor

could help self/police.

Anyhow - good luck with the new system!

[tavalon]

41. I think the 15 minute time out should serve

I just wonder how we are going to verify that the person in question actually stood in the corner during the time out?

[SheilaT]

13. Will there be a time limit,

beyond which the message will be deleted by the Mods?

[progressoid]

14. 15 minute time out penalty! Love it!

p.s. I'm not implying that someone should use the time to plot a new attack - I just like the picture (and the idea of a time out)

[tavalon]

42. LOL

It was time to change out my desktop photo. Bless you, for you give smiles.

[NV Whino]

15. Seems a bit convoluted

It will be interesting to see how it works.

Is there a time limit to edit? Some people post and run off to do other thing, not returning for an extended period of time.

[rug]

16. Call me Ishmael.

Some years ago - never mind how long precisely - having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me on shore, I thought I would sail about a little and see the watery part of the world. It is a way I have of driving off the spleen, and regulating the circulation. Whenever I find myself growing grim about the mouth; whenever it is a damp, drizzly November in my soul; whenever I find myself involuntarily pausing before coffin warehouses, and bringing up the rear of every funeral I meet; and especially whenever my hypos get such an upper hand of me, that it requires a strong moral principle to prevent me from deliberately stepping into the street, and methodically knocking people's hats off - then, I account it high time to get to sea as soon as I can. This is my substitute for pistol and ball. With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the ship. There is nothing surprising in this. If they but knew it, almost all men in their degree, some time or other, cherish very nearly the same feelings towards the ocean with me.

There now is your insular city of the Manhattoes, belted round by wharves as Indian isles by coral reefs - commerce surrounds it with her surf. Right and left, the streets take you waterward. Its extreme down-town is the battery, where that noble mole is washed by waves, and cooled by breezes, which a few hours previous were out of sight of land. Look at the crowds of water-gazers there.

Circumambulate the city of a dreamy Sabbath afternoon. Go from Corlears Hook to Coenties Slip, and from thence, by Whitehall northward. What do you see? - Posted like silent sentinels all around the town, stand thousands upon thousands of mortal men fixed in ocean reveries.

[MilesColtrane]

17. Call me pedantic, but...

isn't the great, white whale in the public domain?

[rug]

18. Why, yes it is.

:yoiks:

[blondeatlast]

25. ...

:rofl:

[MilesColtrane]

27. Sorry, I assumed you had a point in posting that, other than for the literary enrichment of DU.

[Mike 03]

19. This is an excellent idea and it does not sound very difficult to

understand.

Kick and rec.

[Divine Discontent]

21. k&r

[kath]

23. Is there a link that gives specifics about the copyright rules?

IIRC, there is a 4-paragraph limit - but what about the situation where each "paragraph" is only one sentence long - can we then post only 4 sentences, or can we group sentences together into a more appropriate paragraph division and post something in, say, the 8-to-12 sentence range?

Some sites say that the material is NOT copyrighted and may be freely shared - is there a reliable way to determine which material is copyright and which is not?

[supernova]

24. Quoting convention in English

is that you quote exactly as the original is written. And yes, some news reports now are of the 4 - 6 sentence variety. Still, that means you must choose the four sentences.

The alternative is to paraphrase it on DU in your own words. Then you are free to arrange the sentences and paragraphs however you like. Of course, you still have to provide a link to the original.

[L0oniX]

26. I was thinking of trying it out here ...decided not to test for fear of pizza.

:evilgrin:

[glitch]

39. Pizzaphobia.

Dreaded. I too wanted to test it, but decided against it. :P

[tavalon]

46. I think some of us need a 15 minute time out support group

It is tempting, isn't it?

[WilliamPitt]

28. Is the one-hour edit window still in effect?

To wit: I call someone an assbag, and you send me an edit request. I don't see the PM for 90 minutes. Do I still have the ability to go in and make that requested edit, or does the one-hour time limit still apply?

Thanks. This sounds like a solid idea.

[EarlG]

30. There is no time limit on the Edit Request system

The mods could ask you to edit something you posted several hours ago, and the Edit Request system will allow you to do that. However, members are still limited to a one hour window when opting to edit their own posts.

[WilliamPitt]

33. Tremendous.

Thanks!

[Iggo]

61. Self Delete. I'll ask over in ATA.

:hi:

[IDemo]

38. Why is there an edit window, anyway?

I never did quite see the need.

[krispos42]

47. Mis-spellings, mostly.

And sometimes links don't work as advertised.

:shrug:

Lord knows I've pulled a couple of embarrassing words in my time.

[IDemo]

48. I meant, why are edits prevented at all, regardless of the interval?

I may discover a misspelling, bad link or better phrasing one minute or one day after posting.

I don't buy the "keeps everyone honest" reason, if that's it. I don't feel the majority of folks are going to bother to rearrange an OP simply to cover their tracks if they're shown to be wrong.

[krispos42]

49. Oh.

Well, I think it's so that people can't go back and change history weeks later. Imagine if you put up a poll, then a week later changed all the labels on the votes to something totally unrelated.

I know it is frustrating for me to see a discussion take place where an OPer is called on some major factual error or insulting/denigrating term, then the OPer changes the OP to mask them. It doesn't happen much, because the editing window is only an hour.

At some point, in order to have a discussion, the discussion text has to be fixed so it can be referenced.

[IDemo]

64. Was there an overwhelming number of OP's back in the early days who did this?

Again, anyone who had already read and/or replied to an OP knows the substance of the original post anyway. I just don't believe most would be childish or stupid enough to edit a post and claim it had never contained the content that garnered the replies.

Almost all news sites with a forum don't put a time limit on edits (those with forum software allowing edits, anyway).

[krispos42]

73. Dunno, but you'd be surprised about people changing stuff.

Nothing like quietly purging your record.

Remember, also that some administrative/moderation functions are dependent on having a solid, unedited record of posts.

[WilliamPitt]

60. I love it.

Spelling errors, mostly. Dupes you'd like to delete...and the occasional ill-advised comment best relegated to oblivion.

[Renew Deal]

29. Why does DU need to be so complicated?

I know you say it will be easy, but I just don't think this is all necessary. Just delete the posts and move on.

[EarlG]

31. Part of the point of this is to encourage members

to know the rules and take responsibility for their own posts, rather than assuming that the mods are just there to clean up after them.

[tavalon]

43. Because we are a complicated herd of cats

But do not feel sad, for there is housework to get done when in the penalty box. Really, sometimes I think that could be the only way to get it done.

[bemildred]

32. I support this. nt

[madrchsod]

34. good idea...keeps those pesky lawyers away.

[Major Hogwash]

35. Oh shit.

I just had a thought.
Will all of my deleted posts appear in another dimension that I am not aware of, and therefore can't read?

Crap, this is going to keep me up all night again.

[tavalon]

44. Like the freeper dimension?

I actually liked this new rule back when it was first discussed and still do. But, it doesn't mean I'm not having a world of fun with the responses and the 15 minute timeout. Well, except for the stitch in my side.

[Major Hogwash]

51. It's like an Outer Limits episode.

"There is nothing wrong with your tv set. For the next half hour we will control the tv screen. We control the horizontal. We control the vertical."

My dad heard that, walked over and turned off the tv, and said "I control the on/off switch" and laughed hysterically.
He thought he was hilarious.

That's when I knew my family was watching too much tv, we were backtalking the people on it.
Hahahahahaha!!!!!!!

[tavalon]

52. Now that is memorable!

Thank you!

[ejbr]

36. This sounds like a good idea to me n/t

[Heddi]

37. kickity

[tavalon]

40. Good, if a little clunky

But I sort of lost it at the 15 minute time out penalty. If I didn't know you had a child or two! LOL. See, this is why you need to go back to doing the Top Ten - you make me laugh even when you're not trying! BTW, I look forward to my occasional time out because that's just about how long I need to get the kitchen clean. My family will be thrilled but the counter surfing dog, not so much.

[krispos42]

45. Looks good.

I know we had (and presumably still have) some serial copyright-violators; I hope this reigns things in.

[FourScore]

50. This is a wonderful idea!

Thank you!!!

[TacticalPeek]

53. What do you guys want?

A perfect system?

:)

:thumbsup:

[tavalon]

54. A pony?

:hide:

[rox63]

55. What if the poster doesn't or refuses to edit the message?

Some folks here feel pretty passionately about things that don't necessarily jibe with the rules. And people sometimes say things in the heat of the moment that they regret later. Will the offending post eventually be deleted by the mods? Will the poster ever get their posting privileges back? It sounds a bit like a one-strike and you're out rule.

[Skinner]

68. The person also has the option to self-delete the message.

If they refuse to either edit the post or self-delete, then they are stuck in limbo forever and cannot post.

(Which might not be a particularly bad outcome.)

[myrna minx]

56. K&R n/t

[Enrique]

57. change their avatar until they edit the message

give them something like:

[SidDithers]

58. I like this idea...

a "time-out" avatar is a great idea. :applause:

Sid

[lunatica]

59. Can the person ask the moderators why they need to edit?

I've had one OP deleted by the mods and it seemed really kind of extreme since this is a forum for adults. It was a tiny little gif that walked quickly from left to right and then peed. I put it up with a photo of Boehner so it looked like it was peeing on him and it was deleted with the message that it was using a crude body function.

It wasn't exactly in pristine good taste, but I didn't mean it to be. But it surprised me because I had used it before and received a lot of appreciative LOLs.

[Skinner]

69. The person is provided with a reason for the edit request. (nt)

[kestrel91316]

62. I LOVE the idea of getting actual feedback on iffy posts so we can

learn more precisely what we can get away with, and what we can't.

And fixing our mistakes is a vast improvement over simply having posts disappear, and forgetting what exactly it was that got the post in trouble. I tend to post and forget, particularly if I am upset with somebody.

[Skinner]

70. "So we can learn more precisely what we can get away with, and what we can't."

I find this attitude troubling.

Instead of posting in the mindset of "what we can get away with" I would encourage you to post in the mindset of "how can I be a productive DU member?"

[kestrel91316]

72. Unfortunately, you don't have a tongue-in-cheek smilie, or I would have used it.

[valerief]

63. Great feature! nt

[snagglepuss]

65. Has 'forced ignore' replaced 'delete'? And what is the rational of

'forced ignore'?

[SoapBox]

67. I love the way DU works now...so I hope it's not gonna get screwed up like...

...Think Progress. I LOVED TP but they changed the posting system and I hate it. It is
almost impossible now to follow posts and I don't like the appearance or login.

The biggest thing that I think it stopped was the trolls and that was good.

Great things about DU...Spell checking! Being able to Edit my post (I am ALWAYS
leaving words out)! Preview! So overall...good job DU.

[Scurrilous]

71. Kick

:kick: