Kaine: Any challenger to Obama would be "fringe"

[Bluebear]

Whatever one feels about primary challengers, you would think that it would be the right of somebody to run without being called "fringe". More name-calling from the Party leadership.


====

WASHINGTON (AP) — The national Democratic Party chairman says he thinks the chances that President Barack Obama will face a serious primary challenger in 2012 are "virtually nil."

Tim Kaine says there's always the possibility that a fringe candidate could try to mount a challenge. But Kaine says Democrats feel very good about Obama's re-election prospects if, as Kaine puts it, the president keeps doing the job that people elected him to do.

Kaine also told CNN's "State of the Union" on Sunday that he expects to continue as party chairman for another two-year term.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hsI7rh57ewjnGrWGcRYI9Ze2ECGg?docId=dd1b0284aba84f629cfa4128ddff863f

[LoZoccolo]

1. Who is the primary challenger?

Anyone I've heard of?

[Bluebear]

3. Did you read anywhere in there that there was a challenger?

[LoZoccolo]

49. Well, if anyone's going to challenge, they are probably going to have to step up soon.

A lot of the announcements are done by the end of March. If no one well-known has even announced that they might do it, then I would think whoever might do so is fringe just by the fact that not many people have heard of them yet. Also, they'd be running uphill because Obama's approval rating is north of 50% right now, and I expect much of his disapproval is coming from Republicans, so anyone bucking a large part of the Democratic Party would also be considered fringe.

[Recursion]

2. I'm sure LaRouche will run

It's his career at this point.

[Bluebear]

4. lol very true

[Freddie Stubbs]

32. Actually, he didn't run in 2008

[Skittles]

5. surprised he didn't say "the professional left"

[snot]

6. GOOD: they're worried; that means we have a chance.

[polmaven]

13. Would you please define

"They're" and "we"?

[rhett o rick]

39. There are two sides and I think the "they's" and the "we's" know who they are. nm

[polmaven]

50. So Democrats are now

down to a philosophy of "Us vs. Them".......With a Democrat in the White House, that is very sad. President Obama is not the enemy!

[rhett o rick]

71. One of the few things Georgie Bush got right was that you are either for them or against them.

There are only two sides. Tell me is Rick Warren is on our side or Rahm or Geitner, Summers, Bernanke, how about Tim Kaine, etc. None of them have made any indication that they support the middle class.

My side wants the Patriot Act repealed, and the MCA and habeas corpus reinstated. We want domestic spying and torture to end. Why is Pres Obama allowing Bradley Manning to be tortured? How about the wars? how many contractors are there in Iraq at the taxpayer's expense.

What does your side want?

[polmaven]

77. Well, you can think any way tou want to,

but I will continue to consider the president to be the president. I will not call other Democrats "them" because they disagree with me on some of the issues. This really is not a "with us or against us" process, as far as I am concerned, when the players are all Democrats. There is a way to disgree without being disagreeable.

[rhett o rick]

94. I am surprised that you will let me think the way I want. This is war, time to choose sides. nm

[socialist_n_TN]

110. Yeah, I hate it too, but...............

It's becoming more and more of an overt class massacre (it's not a class war until we fight back) by the rich. Every. Single. Fucking. Day. And war means people have to choose sides. Since I'm not rich and never will be, I choose the side of the working class, i.e., most of us. The politicians of both parties have to choose too. That includes the Dems.

[SidDithers]

105. Too bad "your side" doesn't have a chance in hell of getting elected...nt

Sid

[rhett o rick]

106. You know, I am ok with that. I can look myself in the mirror. Not like some here that are ok with

domestic spying and the Patriot Act and torture just like in the Bush years.

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Renew Deal]

55. They are republicans

Who are "we?"

[rhett o rick]

72. Wrong. That is the easy way out. Go back to start. nm

[geek tragedy]

79. No, "you" people don't.

You're doomed to failure.

You're stuck with Obama.

[rhett o rick]

95. So you support domestic wiretapping? How about the Patriot Act? nm

[notesdev]

7. That presumes Obama actually runs again

while he clearly does love a campaign, I get a very strong sense that he can't stand actually being President and that he'd much rather be a Senator again if he can swing it. Of the two jobs, the latter is by far the more enviable - no actual responsibility and a great share of the power.

[Kolesar]

8. He was happy to end the bush era...eom

[notesdev]

9. Who wasn't? -nt

[Kolesar]

27. So what was your point? eom

[notesdev]

70. I like subject only messages -nt

[karynnj]

25. For those with the potential to be President, you miss that they may

be motivated by the greater ability to change the world or the prestigious of being President. Though I have heard John Kerry say many times in MA that he loves the state and is honored to be representing MA's values, there is no doubt that he wanted to be President. In his comments, any regret was always in the context of what he could have done.

McCain very clearly wanted to be President and is bitter that he isn't. You can go back to others - McGovern was never as happy or productive as a Senator after not winning. Hillary Clinton didn't return to the Senate (which was in session) for a month and a half after the last primary was over and she had lost. It is beyond clear that she wanted to be President, not Senator.

The best example for your case that I can come up with is Ted Kennedy - and even in his case, as one of the top three Senators ever, it is clear that it took a long time for him to not want to be President.

[alc]

10. too bad

I don't care about "Democrats attacking each other" or "wasting campaign funds". Those aren't nearly as important to me as my opportunity to let the party know where I stand.

Primaries are a good place for voters to make a statement about what they want. and for the candidate to tune his/her message (and hopefully policy) to be in line with what voters want. if voters can't make their statement in the primary they may do it in the general election (3rd party or stay home) and the candidate won't have the primary results to tell him/her what voters want.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

11. Lace or ruffles?

[SidDithers]

12. He's right...

Disappointing as it is to some, there will be no significant primary challenge to Obama in 2012.

Sid

[KharmaTrain]

14. If There's Gonna Be A Challenge, They Better Be Hustling...

Gonna run this challenge on love or pocket lint? It'll cost a minimum of $100 million to deal in to be a serious primary threat...this money's gotta come from somewhere. Or is there some big sugar daddy out there who will step in to pay the bills?

Remember, there are those here who think that Kucinch was a major candidate...thus I guess "fringe" means gaining less than 2% of the vote.

If there are those who want a challenge, you better start now...

[zipplewrath]

22. It will take an exceptional candidate

It will take someone with some functional organization already. A govenor, some news commentator, or someone with an existing organization behind them. A serious challenge in Iowa won't take 100 million. However, sorta like Dean, doing well in Iowa, without any existing organization in the following states is a big problem.

But Obama's/Kaine's problem isn't so much a potentially successful challenge, merely a popular one, mostly from his left. Someone with just enough money and success to dog him all the way to South Carolina, or Florida.

[zipplewrath]

15. Intentional choice of words

There is no doubt that Kaine's choice of words was intentional. None the less, what he is effectively saying is that no one with a CURRENT national standing, constintuency, or base will step forward. There's no Ted Kennedy or Clinton out there that is going to step forward.

What should be remembered however is that BOTH Carter AND Dean were "fringe" candidates when they started.

Kaine's biggest fear is a charismatic "fringe" candidate. It could cause any sitting president an uneasy Iowa and New Hampshire.

[karynnj]

26. Niether Carter or Dean went against a Democratic sitting President

and Dean lost as soon as primaries actually started. In addition, though both at one point "came out of nowhere", neither was called a fringe candidate. In that year, Kucinich, Sharpton, and Mosely-Braun were considered the fringe candidates. In 2008, Dodd, Richardson, and Biden all had little support, but were never tagged as "fringe".

Kaine's comment is not prejudicial but a statement of what - at this point appears to be the case. At the point where Edwards, Clinton and Obama announced two years ago - and when Kerry announced he would not run, there is no one who anyone here as posted about doing the exploratory work that would have already started in the last year.

Now, it is possible that a Gene McCarthy type challenge could be made by someone disputing Obama's direction on economic issues or the war (or both), but Obama is not LBJ and it is not clear that LBJ could not have re-energized and fought back rather than opting out to try to end the war. (Remember LBJ won NH - and this is said by someone then in high school and 100% behind McCarthy.) That is the ONLY example in either party where a President entered the primaries and was not picked by his party.

[zipplewrath]

73. The were far from "presumptive nominees"

Carter and Dean, amongst others, started with small money, small support, and well behind "establishment" candidates. As I said, the choice of "fringe" was intentional. He wanted to evoke the kind of image you are suggesting, i.e. Sharpton, et. al. However, what he is really afraid of is a Carter, or Dean type candidate. Someone very none establishment, but that can generate alot of excitement. No one who is currently "established" is going to make a run. It will be the guy looking to get established that could make a play, mostly to get some national recognition. Truth is, his biggest fear should be a democratic "Reagan". A guy that loses this time, and then is the presumptive nominee in 2016.

[Raksha]

101. In other words, someone like who we THOUGHT Obama was.

Re "However, what he is really afraid of is a Carter, or Dean type candidate. Someone very none establishment, but that can generate alot of excitement."

That comes pretty close to describing Candidate Obama. If some outsider (can't be too unknown) can convince a burned-out progressive base that he or she is the real deal and not an imposter, that person could give Obama a run for his money.

[zipplewrath]

123. Except they are very skeptical right now

Someone could, if they had the reputation already. I suspect someone just coming out that way may be received with a healthy bit of skepticism. And various factions of progressives would be very sensitive to any statements on their issue that weren't "pure" enough.

But yeah, I think Obama's clearest weakness is someone coming from the position he formerly filled. His positions on War and Gitmo alone leave a huge area on his left to be filled.

[Smarmie Doofus]

102. LBJ pulled out 'cause his own polls showed he'd be "shellacked"...

>>>but Obama is not LBJ and it is not clear that LBJ could not have re-energized and fought back rather than opting out to try to end the war. (Remember LBJ won NH - and this is said by someone then in high school and 100% behind McCarthy.) That is the ONLY example in either party where a President entered the primaries and was not picked by his party.>>>>


to use an Obama-ism ... in the Wisc primary, which was imminent. You'll have to remind me what concrete steps he (LBJ) took to try to "end the war" in the period right after the withdrawal.

That's#1.

No. 2: Ford ( 1976) could have just as easily lost the nomination to Reagan as won it.

He was very , very, lucky. And he won at the convention by the narrowest of margins. A shift of 60 votes or so would have delivered it to Reagan.

[bluethruandthru]

16. Someone needs to challenge Kaine!

A total bust as party chairman. We need someone with the skills to effectively get the party message out.

[mmonk]

17. They are keeping score with Republicans on who can throw the

most insults at progressives and liberals. I could spend all my time throwing insults at them as well but it doesn't fix anything (and I like posting here).

[ecstatic]

18. Was he wrong?

Seriously... what non-fringe politician is going to run in 2012? :eyes:

[mmonk]

20. Define fringe. What does it mean?

[ecstatic]

21. Nader, Larouche, etc. nt

[zipplewrath]

23. Any ex-democratic govenor

There are just enough ex-democratic govenors that any one of them could get a wild hair and decide the run was worth it, if only to improve their national exposure and set themselves up for future VP considerations. Then of course there is the odd billionaire that wants an ego boost.

[mmonk]

24. I doubt those are who Kaine is worried about.

[SidDithers]

28. Neither Kaine nor Obama are worried about a primary challenge...nt

Sid

[mmonk]

33. Then why mention it?

[tammywammy]

47. Because he was asked about it.

:shrug:

[mmonk]

67. True.

But what does he know about the character or substance of one that doesn't exist?

[SidDithers]

48. Kaine didn't mention anything about being worried...

that was you.

Sid

[mmonk]

61. Well

They don't say they are worried because that would make them look bad and because it would make it obvious.

[SidDithers]

63. Gotcha...

the complete lack of evidence that they're worried is evidence that they're worried.

Sid

[mmonk]

65. There is no challenger.

To paint any future one as fringe is to jump to a conclusion.

[rhett o rick]

74. Kaine isnt worried. That's the problem. The asshat knows that he will make out one way or other. nm

[onenote]

52. Fringe means exactly what Kaine said it meant: someone who does not present a serious challenge

And he's right.

[rhett o rick]

75. Fringe means the grass roots and he can go to hell. nm

[geek tragedy]

85. The grass roots don't support a primary challenge.

Only, well, a 'fringe' do.

[Capitalocracy]

87. I want a president who actually represents the people who vote for him.

I want a president who doesn't govern for the banks. I want a president who doesn't fight illegal wars of aggression, extrajudicially execute people, support regimes which commit torture and hand over prisoners to them, support our own torturers, and illegally and indefinitely detain prisoners.

I guess I'm "fringe".

[geek tragedy]

89. If you think a primary challenge is going to produce

a better result, yes you are.

[Capitalocracy]

91. What will?

What will produce a better result?

And assuming, of course, that a primary challenge would fail, what else will pressure Obama to go "left"?

[rhett o rick]

93. I get it, just drink the koolaide and let the Republicans and their allies the Blue Damn Dogs have

their way with you. Not me.

[SidDithers]

112. So, vote for someone else...

If you don't feel Obama is representing you, vote for candidate who will.

Just don't expect the candidate you vote for to actually win, because, with certain very few exceptions, the winner will either be an R or a D.

Sid

[rhett o rick]

114. And the sad thing is that you are ok with that. You are ok with the Patriot Act and no public option

You are ok that domestic spying continues as the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Some how these things are ok if done by a Democratic president.

I am guessing you are ok with Bradley Manning being tortured. Shame on you.

[SidDithers]

116. You're guessing and assuming a lot about many posters in this thread...

Based on no evidence or statements from those posters.

Your name suits you to a T.

Sid

[rhett o rick]

118. Low blow but not unexpected. Why wont any of you discuss issues like torture, illegal wiretapping,

etc.? I have asked over and over with never a response other than name calling.

[rhett o rick]

92. So you are saying just lay back and let the Republicans and their DLC allies

run all over us? Is it fringy to want Medicare for all? or the Patriot Act repealed? Is that too fringy for you.
I want to save this country. Is that fringy?

you would call our founding fathers fringy.

I suppose you are happy that Obama is torturing Bradley Manning.

[geek tragedy]

117. Obama is as good as it gets for you until 2017.

That's reality, whether you accept it or not.

P.S, Obama is not a Republican.

[SidDithers]

107. Abso-freaking'-lutely...nt

Sid

[Capitalocracy]

86. ...

:toast:

[Ichingcarpenter]

19. Ichingcarprnter: Any challenger to Kaine would be an' improvement"

over his sorry ass

[hobbit709]

29. "Fringe" defined as anyone not a DLC corporate stooge.

[snooper2]

31. "Fringe" defined as a truther...

that would make for some great debates :rofl:

[rhett o rick]

104. It was the fringe that screamed "hell no" when Bushy wanted to invade Iraq. It was the DLC that kiss

kissed his behind and let him kill a million Iraqi's.

[MadHound]

30. So I guess Kennedy was "fringe" back in '80

This is simply more bashing of the left by the corporately controlled assholes at the DLC and DNC.

[mmonk]

36. That is the scenario they fear reoccurring.

They just don't have the guts to say it or change and are throwing out a preemptive political attack on any who may be considering one.

[onenote]

54. Not even close to an apt analogy

Kennedy was a serious candidate with substantial support both in terms of members of the party and in terms of financial support.

All Kaine was saying, and he's right, is that no one fitting that bill -- i.e., no one who is capapble of mounting a serious challenge to the President -- is likely to run.

From the transcript of the interview:

KAINE: Ed, I think it's very unlikely that the president is going to face any kind of a serious primary challenge within the Democratic Party. You and I know that you can always get a fringe candidate or somebody to run.

So, you know, could somebody throw in their name? And, yes, it's possible. But I think the likelihood of any serious challenge to the president is virtually nil. And I think the president's strong performance and especially the three major accomplishments at the end of the year make it even smaller.

[mmonk]

64. If there is one, that person is currently unknown.

Therefore, being unknown, its hard to make any judgement.

[xchrom]

34. dear tim kaine: quit now -- you incompetent boob. nt

[walldude]

35. Tim Kaine.. yeah he's done such a bang up job so far

that we ought to be lining up just to listen to him.

[cascadiance]

37. Who are the "people" he's referring to that elected him? The corporate people?...

That seems to be the "people" he's serving now, NOT us Democrats!

Kaine, why don't YOU do the job you've been appointed to, and help get the base built to elect more Democrats the way Dean did instead of losing by ignoring them and just paying attention to who buys you off! Loser!

[Canuckistanian]

38. He can talk?

Amazing.

[mmonk]

40. As long as it is preapproved by the DLC.

;-)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

41. That's what they said about Gene McCarthy in '68.

That was a helluva second term LBJ had.

[NCarolinawoman]

109. Yes, Gene McCarthy would have been of the "professional left", aka "fringe". n/t

[SidDithers]

113. And how'd that work out?...nt

Sid

[Art_from_Ark]

122. How'd that work out?

The Democratic Party brass gave the nomination to Hubert Humphrey, who didn't even run in the primaries. One reason why a lot of Democrats were turned off by his candidacy.

[NCarolinawoman]

115. Let me add that Kaine would most likely have also considered Bobby Kennedy as "fringe".

After all, the scarey:sarcasm: hippies adored both these men.

[robcon]

42. I agree with Kaine.

Harmless fringe, IMO. The party is strongly behind Obama.

[Selatius]

43. So, if Bill Nelson decided to challenge Obama, he'd be cast out as "fringe" like the "left" is?

Good to know.

[robcon]

44. That's exactly what I'm talking about.

Bill Nelson has no chance, and wouldn't challenge Obama. Only fringe Dems would challenge him, since the president has the support of the vast majority of the party against any other kind of challenger.

[geek tragedy]

80. Absolutely. nt

[JTFrog]

45. Indeed.

[Gold Metal Flake]

46. Thank God for Kaine and his magic key fobs!

[whatchamacallit]

51. We've had enough anointed "mainstream" crap for candidates

They only serve the status quo. I say bring on the "fringe"!

[Renew Deal]

53. Kaine is correct

No mainstream Dem would primary Obama. You might get some nut. :shrug:

[madfloridian]

56. I have already been called fringe....during the Dean campaign.

That is nothing new to me.

And centrist Dean was called fringe by that wing of the party and worse.

[niceypoo]

57. 'Centrist' Dean?

Which right wing policies does he espouse?

[superduperfarleft]

58. Haven't read much on his tenure as governor, have you?

http://www.isreview.org/issues/32/dean.shtml

It's okay, people projected the same amount of delusion on Obama.

[niceypoo]

59. Yes I have

From non biased sources, no less.

[superduperfarleft]

60. Wait, you're painting Dean as some sort of leftist AND simultaneously complaining that ISR

is "biased?"

Whatever, I tried.

[niceypoo]

111. List these right wing beliefs that Dean holds so dear

[superduperfarleft]

119. Read the article. Or don't. I don't care.

It's not my problem if you prefer a cult of personality as opposed to supporting someone based on their actual record.

[madfloridian]

62. Mostly fiscal stuff.

He's a hawk about that.

[superduperfarleft]

66. So much so that he made Clinton's welfare-to-work crap look downright compassionate.

Look, I like Dean as a politician (in that he speaks well and is great at getting people excited, and I even worked for him in 2004), but just like with Obama and Hillary in 08, we've got two groups of people fighting each other over politicians that have very little differences when it comes to policy. Dean honestly reminds me of Mark Warner from Virginia, and yet no one is holding up Warner as some paragon of leftist virtue.

I still say that if it wasn't that for the stars aligning so that Dean could come out against the Iraq War (when it was politically safe to do so, and when everyone even moderately to the left of the Republicans opposed it), he wouldn't be hailed as the progressive hero that he is today.

[madfloridian]

68. I disagree with you.

But that is a post for another time. I don't feel like arguing today. There is much more to the man than what you said.

[superduperfarleft]

69. No worries, I think you and me would agree on more things than not anyway.

I've always liked your posts here.

[fascisthunter]

76. Hmmm... pretty desperate attempt there... me smell fear

[Raine]

108. Yeah the stink of it is unmistakable and

they should be afraid, be very afraid. :evilgrin:

[geek tragedy]

78. Well, he's right. No figure with anything to lose is going to run.

So far, the "Anyone But Obama" folks have Gravel and LaRouche.

We're not scared of you people.

[quiller4]

81. Dean said much the same thing yesterday. n/t

[onenote]

82. +1 with quote from Dean

"I don’t think he’s going to face an opponent in the democratic primary. I think that would be bad thing for the country and I think it would be a bad thing for the Democratic Party. The history of people running against Presidents in their own party as the challenger, you loses and then the President is weakened and loses. Now the President has done some things that I think are terrific. This is not one of them. But I– I think he will not get an opponent."


Geez, Kaine says he thinks its unlikely that Obama will get a serious primary challenge and he's roundly condemned by many here. Dean says he thinks its unlikely that Obama will get a primary challege at all and not a word of criticism.

Falls into the category of disliking the messenger more than the message I guess.

[madfloridian]

83. One used the word "fringe"...one did not.

There's a difference.

[onenote]

84. Not much of a difference

Dean doesn't think anyone, fringe or otherwise will run.

Kaine doesn't think anyone serious will run.


Bottom line: they both are predicting that there won't be a serious challenge.

[BzaDem]

88. Well, he's right that he probably won't get a viable challenger. People like Sanders, Grayson, Dean

will enthusiastically support Obama, since they knew there is a small segment of the Democratic party that has to be saved from itself.

[geek tragedy]

90. Dean and Sanders will, Grayson is too unpredictable. nt

[rhett o rick]

98. I am proud to be "fringe" instead of a Republican or Blue Damn Dog. nm

[Major Hogwash]

96. Splunge for me, too, sir.

Oh no, not me sir, I'm not a "yes" man.
No, sir, I'm not saying no.
I'm not saying yes either, sir.
Just "splunge".

Good enough, there for a minute I thought you were a "yes" man.
Are you "fringe"?

Uhhh, well, uuuhhh, I think I uhhhh, splunge?

[rhett o rick]

97. Remember when Little Georgie Bush wanted to go to war? And the fringe said no? Who kissed his ass

and kissed his feet and voted to kill innocent Iraq children? IT WASNT THE FRINGE. It was the DLC and their Blue Dog lackys.

[Smarmie Doofus]

100. We'll see. They seem to be harping on this quite a bit lately.

Maybe this means they're really , really, confident.

Yeah. That's definitely it.

*Really* confident.


No. Really.

[Raine]

103. The sure do obsess about the "fringe"

apparently they are more scared than they want to admit, good ... they should be. :evilgrin:

[hulka38]

120. Can we acknowledge that the DLC is at war with the left?

[rhett o rick]

121. Duh?