for those who attend town or city council meetings (or equivilant)

[Kali]

I don't live in a town and the nearest small community has made it abundantly clear they don't give a shit about non-residents of their legal boundaries, no matter what kinds of effects their decisions may have on neighbors.

However, last night I was obligated to go give a statement at a public hearing on a zoning issue.

I was a little discomforted when they asked everybody to stand and say the Pledge of Allegiance and REALLY uncomfortable with the xtian invocation or prayer or whatever they did after the pledge.

Is this common at PUBLIC civic meetings???

[Curmudgeoness]

1. I get so sick and tired of prayers at anything public or

government. I just do not understand where the hell their heads are. It is so god damned simple---prayer in church or beside your bed at night. No prayer at anything related to government (town meetings, schools, city hall, courtrooms, etc.) It isn't as if people are being told we will kill them if they ever pray again.

Stop subjecting me to your blabber!!! How do I say that nicely???

[brendan120678]

2. We usually have a pledge, followed by...

a "moment of silence."

[Curmudgeoness]

5. A rose by any other name.....

still makes my allergies flair up.

[Kali]

8. at least that is inclusive

still wtf does that have to do with town business?

[smallspuds]

3. I totally agree...this Judeo-Christian stuff has to stop

I'm also tired of having the pablum stuffed down my throat. I don't believe in their god and the fact that we are to have "no state religion" makes me angrier every time I have to sit through one of their plaintive orisons. I think the pledge is a good idea, because we need to remind people that we have a common bond...but they need to recite it the way it was originally written: without "under god"! That way we can remain "one nation, indivisible".

[Curmudgeoness]

4. Personally, I dislike saying the pledge as well as praying, but

I am not sure if it is because of the "under god" (that I refrain from saying), or if it is because I am not always ready to pledge blind allegience. But the prayers are not even a place where I will compromise anymore.

[Kali]

7. I am SO there

I avoid too much community stuff because of it. I hate it but I also am a wimp about confronting people about it - I actually don't want to offend THEM. Wish they could just entertain the same thought occasionally!

bleh

[HopeHoops]

6. My wife was elected to a 3 year term on a NH school board and they NEVER did either!

The school board met privately, but there were town meetings where people voted on the budget and a few policy issues. No pledge. No prayer. LOTS of bitching, moaning, complaining, whining, taxes this, taxes that, etc.

[Curmudgeoness]

9. Wow, really? The people were able to vote on some issues?

I love that! God, is PA regressive! At our public meetings, we are lucky they don't tell us to sit down and shut up. You speak, they are whispering to each other the whole time, and then they vote without any acknowledgement of what you or others have said. I do know that the meeting would be easier without the citizen's attendance and complaints, but you never know when you will get a good idea from someone.

They actually did do something that I suggested (it took them over a year, but...) when we had sewer bills every two months, and they were increasing the rate from $24 to $44 per month. They had a huge problem before the increase with people not paying timely, if at all. I told them that they had to start billing monthly, first because of the amounts and second because people get more used to a monthly bill. They raised the rate, ignored me, and the non-payment rate skyrocketed. It took a while, but the billing is now monthly and payment rates are better. You never know when someone else will have a decent complaint or comment.

[HopeHoops]

10. It wasn't all that great. Read on.

Example 1:

Something like football uniforms came up and, pretty much without any debate, the attendees approved a rather large amount to replace them.

The elementary principal's request for ONE classroom's replacement desks (30 year old desks) came up next and it was voted down. He got up later and reamed out the town, using the uniforms as an example. He asks for the desks in ONE room to be replaced every year and it takes 30 years for that cycle to repeat.

Example 2:

The elementary "school" consisted of 3 buildings. At the time, the eldest of them was 112 years old and had over 120 safety code violations. The upstairs (of 3) levels was always sweltering while the lowest was freezing. There were wasps everywhere. A stairway collapsed and a second story window fell out right where the students stand to wait for the bus. Fortunately nobody was hurt in either incident.

The next newest was built in the 30's, also 3 stories. It had two moderately useful bathrooms on the 1st level, none on the second, and a converted broom closet on the third that you had to scoot into with your knees under the sink to use the toilet.

The newest was built in 1963 and was in serious need of repair.

The issue of building a new elementary school came up every year. The first year we were involved in the process, the estimate was on the order of $8 million. Every year it was the same deal. The Republicans would bus in seniors from the nursing home (who wouldn't pay anything toward it ANYWAY since it was based entirely on property tax) and spend GOD knows how much money on ads claiming property taxes would go up by a factor of 10 and other such stupidities. It failed every year. My wife was on the school board so she knew the details of the existing buildings. She has a BS in El. Ed/Early Childhood and an MS in El. Ed, so she home-schooled our kids while we lived there. When we moved out, the estimate for the school had risen to over $15 million. A few years after we left, it finally passed at a cost of like $21 million. Yeah, that was certainly cost-effective.

Oh, and here's another fun bit. One of the years, when the vote was about to come up, our state representative (Republican of course) ran out and parked in front of one of the only two pay phones in the building (cell phones were rare at the time) and pumped quarters into it calling people to come vote against the school.

[Curmudgeoness]

11. You have convinced me, again, how stupid many people are.

When will I learn. But it SOUNDED like a good idea, especially when you look at the options we have here.

I guess there are no better/worse ways to do things, just different ways.

BTW, the sports uniform story could have come from W PA, where sports are the only reason we have schools.

[HopeHoops]

13. I know. My f-i-l quit coaching at a W PA school because of that.

He had an undefeated football team the entire time he coached - a few years and 100% wins.

They had an honors ceremony and the sports honors went first. They took up the entire allotted time. He went to the principal and asked when they planned to hold a second ceremony for the academic honors and was told that there wasn't going to be another ceremony. He quit his coaching position on the spot. The following year and for many years to come, the football team rarely won a game.

[Kali]

12. kick