Five Media Myths That Perpetuate Car Culture

[marmar]

from the DC Streets blog:




Five Media Myths That Perpetuate Car Culture
by Anne Lutz Fernandez and Catherine Lutz on May 23, 2011


Another day, another news story, another media outlet wielding an old saw like this one: high gas prices are a political problem for the president because Americans “love their cars.” American car culture, fed by everything from our sprawled out landscape to a daily bombardment of car ads, is kept alive by journalists’ use of a set of hackneyed narratives. Beyond clichés, these story lines represent a collection of myths that shore up an unhealthy, unequal, and ultimately unsustainable car system.

Americans love their cars. A Google search for this statement returns 2.8 times as many hits as “Americans love their pets” and 6.3 times as many as “Americans love their guns”. Yes, there will always be automotive enthusiasts and drivers fond of their cars. But our car culture is both shifting and conflicted: The last time they were surveyed by Pew, Americans saying they saw their cars as “something special”, more than just a means of transportation, had dropped from 43 to 23 percent. Americans may need their cars in our transit-starved and poorly planned landscape, but with mind-numbing traffic and volatile gas prices, the luster is off the chrome.

Teens can’t wait to grab the car keys. The press persists in romanticizing a teen’s first trip to the DMV as the ultimate coming of age ritual. But it’s their middle-aged parents who are more likely to be champing at the bit, fed up with schlepping their kids and steeped in nostalgia about the freedom they felt when they first drove. But this generation is different. Already connected by smartphones and computers, and graduating into a terrible job market, young people are less car-happy than their parents were at the same age. Today’s teens are delaying getting their licenses and purchasing vehicles, and college students are more interested in living in urban centers where they can be less car-dependent. .............(more)

The complete piece is at: http://dc.streetsblog.org/2011/05/23/five-media-myths-that-perpetuate-car-culture/

[Lydia Leftcoast]

1. The entries on the Facebook page for Public Transit are telling

Person after person says, "I wish I could take public transit to work, but there isn't any" or "It's so inadequate that I have to drive."

[Donnachaidh]

2. we *loved* our cars when we could work on them

My stepdad taught me enough to find my way around an engine. But now with all the electronic nonsense? And the cost of the parts? Forget it.

[Fumesucker]

4. Get a $50 OBD code reader and the electronics actually makes a lot of jobs easier on cars..

I'm by no means a pro mechanic but I found a really rough idle problem on an Expedition not too long ago by reading the codes with a reader and then looking up that code online.. Teh Goog told me three or four possibilities and I narrowed it down to one with a couple of easy tests.

A vacuum leak in a nearly inaccessible place was the problem, cheap and simple to fix but a pain to get to.

[Donnachaidh]

14. I'll look into that.

We have a mitsubishi now, and I love this car. But the electronics are driving me nuts. Perhaps the reader will help sort out the nonsense. thanks!

[Drew Richards]

33. OBD 1 is worthless if car newer than 92

spend 100 bucks and buy an obd 2 reader and like fumesucker said things get a lot clearer.

[Fumesucker]

40. I didn't specify one or two because I didn't know the year of the car..

And OBD II isn't fully implemented in all cars until '96.

[madokie]

52. Sure 'nuf

I just replaced one of the ignition coils on my f150 and found which one it was that was intermittently firing by using the obd reader. I think todays vehicles are easier to trouble shoot and fix due to the electronics. In fact I think they require less repairs due to those electronics

[Tesha]

69. Anyone who remembers filing the points every 3,000 miles or so...

*KNOWS* that modern cars require far less maintenance
than cars from "the good old days".

Tesha

[madokie]

71. I just laugh when I hear someone say they don't build cars like they used too

because they're saying right the opposite as to what they think they're saying.
Change oil ever 2 thousand miles grease jobs every 1 thousand miles all while getting maybe 12 to 15 miles per gallon of gas. Have to buy tires every 10 thousand miles asthey didn't last long, windshield wipers with the seasons for the same reason.

[digonswine]

8. Just drive a 1993 van, like I do-

you'll get tons of those old time fix-it-yourself feelings back in no time.

[Donnachaidh]

13. we did for the longest time

A g20. Hated to give it up, but moved *up* due to kid. :shrug:

[booley]

3. I need a car

But I cant' always say I love my car.

High gas prices, mechanical flaws, pushy debt collectors that call me five times a day if I am little late and it's been hit 5 times (3 times while parked!!!)

I have it because Saint Louis public transportation sucks, stuck between a city that can't pay it's bill or manage it's infrastructure and a county that wants the benefits but doesn't want to have actually pay for any of them.

When i lived in San diego I got along just fine without a car. IF I could live there still, I would have a car but keep it in the garage until I needed it long trips.

[Shagbark Hickory]

7. Well in san diego, you could probably get by with a moped or motorbike.

[booley]

10. In San Diego, I could get by with 2 feet

and a some spare change.

Here if you don't want to spend all day getting from one side of town to another, you need a car.

and even if you have all day, some places are out of reach.

[Shagbark Hickory]

5. People love the freedom that owning a car provides. For once, I don't think it's a media conspiracy.

[pstokely]

18. Do they like the gas prices and insurance rates?

nt

[PVnRT]

25. Generally, no

That has nothing to do with his statement, however.

[Shagbark Hickory]

29. People buy cars with the understanding they will have to

a.) Buy gas
b.) Buy insurance

I watched my grandfather essentially give up living because other family members decided he shouldn't drive anymore. People have these deep connections to their cars, even if they hardly ever use them.

[reggie the dog]

34. when i lived in cities i didnt need a car

i had a pickup truck when i lived in the suburbs, when i moved to chicago it was a pain to park so i would usually take public transit, when i moved to paris i didnt have a car for a year and didnt miss driving at all, now i live in the countryside so i have a car to get from town to town or out to places i need to go in the woods or in the orchards

[Shagbark Hickory]

36. Well it sounds like you and my dogs have something in common. They're not all that fond of cars eith

er

[reggie the dog]

43. like i said i have one because i need it

when it is not raining and not over 90 degrees i ride my bicycle from town to town to visit friends and do small errands, but to go grocery shopping or to go to work i use a car because the public transit in the countryside is not that good, there are busses but only a few a day. the train is great to go east or west down to the coast and i use it then. today i will do a 2 and a half hour bike ride and go through 3 small towns but my friends moved farther up the hills so i wont ride to visit them today, but when i do visit them i get even more of a workout.

[Shagbark Hickory]

55. So you need it for the convenience it sounds like

:shrug:

[reggie the dog]

57. exactly, i need it to take my kid to school in the morning

a 10 mile drive, the 2 days of the week i take her to school (she walks from her moms house), i also need a car to carry loads of groceries once a week or so or to get to places to hike, picnic and the like out in the wilderness, but today i drove to town in the morning, did all my errands as i passed by the places, and now am going riding on my bike for a couple of hours before sunset, for me biking is fun so i do some of my commutes on bike, biking to the train to go the coast is great due to parking problems. in the usa i use a car to do suburb to suburb commutes with my daughter and alone but do shorter commutes 10 to 15 miles one way on a bike when i am without my child. i rather like riding across suburban wasteland sububrbs subdivisions even at night on my bike coming home from friends houses all stoned. this summer i will do a couple of 40 mile one way rides across the burbs to visit friends and then ride back the next day. If i move back to an urban center like lyon, paris or amsterdam i will likely keep my car just to be able to access the countryside once in a while but would not buy a new car if i didnt have one. if i stay in the countryside i will keep my car until i cannot afford to put diesel in it anymore.

[Shagbark Hickory]

58. What were we talking about again?

[reggie the dog]

66. whether cars are a necessity or something we love

i love bicycling but have a car because i need to. what about you? do you love your car or truck or is it just something you need to get to work or to get to picnic places?

[Shagbark Hickory]

72. I need it to be "free".

So I can be free to go to picnic places.
I also need it for work. So I guess the answer is both.
If I didn't need it for work, I'd still want one for the freedom of getting out of town on a whim.
I'm 90 minutes from the World's busiest airport (with no jams). That's an expensive fare.
I'd still need a car to get to the nearest bus stop even though I'm in a county with like a million people. And I'm fearful that if I tried to ride a bike, someone in a minivan would run over me.

I can't get a ride from someone else .
So about all I can do is get one of the rental agencies to pick me up and I can rent a car when I need to. OF course, if I did that every time I needed a car, I'd be paying more to do that than the upkeep on my vehicles which I own outright.

If I lived in a city with super transit, I'd most likely have a car anyway or a motorbike.

[taterguy]

42. It's not a conspiracy but ad revenue from car companies influences how these issues are reported

If people really knew how much the government subsidizes automobile usage then spending priorities might be different.

Or they might be the same.

I could be wrong.

:shrug:

[Gormy Cuss]

51. Exactly. Consumer "love" or need of cars is driven by car company marketing

either in the form of ads or as lobbying on Capitol Hill. Cars are great appliances but our car-centric transportation and planning policy didn't come about organically.

[Coyote_Bandit]

6. Public transportation?

I used to live in one of our nations largest metropolitan areas. The public transportation system there could take you anywhere, any day, anytime. I loved it - and relied on it.

Then I moved.

I now live in one of my state's two largest metropolitan areas. What passes for public transportation here is a frickin joke. Routes are extremely limited - and poorly planned. There is no evening, night or weekend service. Some areas of the city are not served at all. None of the suburban areas are served. I'll drive my car, or walk, or call a taxi.

I grew up in a rural area. There is nothing there that even pretends to be public transportation.



I'd happily use public transportation. But it isn't frickin available.

[dmallind]

9. It's also rarely viable.

I grew up in England, where the populations of California and Illinois combined live in an area 10%+ smaller than just the latter state. Even there buses and trains need heavy subsidies and are shedding lightly-used off-peak routes, and that's a country with far more mixed use zoning than the US, where shops homes and businesses are in the same streets even in the suburbs. Even with subsidies and a population density like that AND $8/gallon gass, car ownership is increasing rapidly, and inconveniently - some streets have cars parked on both sides so it is impossible for traffic to flow in both directions. On my last trip I averaged 9mph due to congestion - in a town with less thsn 100k.

So with greater density, shorter distances, mixed use planning, twice the gas cost and subsidized public transit, ridership is still falling badly. Why would the US be different? Public transirt - which incidentally I love as an idea, is only going to succeed where it offers a demonstrable advantage over cars. Places like Manhattan, where thereare simply too many people to take cars, or DC, where it is impossible to park one, do well but note that their buses are less successful - public transit can't just share the roads with cars ot any possible advantage disappears. Only in mixed use high density areas with non-road based transit will it be viable, probably for generations.

[backscatter712]

12. It needs more political will for it. Even if it "loses money", public transit is a net benefit.

For one thing, the canard "Public transit isn't making money" is based on the assumption that public transit needs to make money. It doesn't. It's a government service, subsidized by tax dollars, and partially paid for with fares, but the point isn't to make money, but to provide viable transportation options that aren't as polluting as cars, take some of the congestion off the roads, and are affordable to the poor and working-classes.

Here in Colorado, my own town of Fort Collins, used to have trolley service, and it lasted until the 1950's. Back then, it was a small town. But somehow, they found the means to put tracks in the streets, put up power wires, and send trolleys around town for public transit. Today, the trolleys are museum pieces. There is one running trolley that's a tourist attraction in the summer months, and public transit is provided by buses. The train tracks that run through the middle of town, that now only carry freight trains, used to carry passenger trains with regular service to Denver, Laramie, Cheyenne, etc. etc. Now, if you want to get to those towns, you've pretty much got to find a car and take the highways.

But the real question is how to create the political will to pay for public transit. Economically, it makes sense. Even when the transit system is "losing money", it's providing rides to countless thousands of people, which reduces pollution, reduces wear & tear on the roads, uses less energy, gets people who otherwise can't make the trip to productive jobs, and provides a net public benefit. But the vested interests from the oil companies to the auto manufacturers don't want that - keeping people in cars is more profitable for them, so they're constantly going to lobby in a way that sabotages public transit.

[gratuitous]

22. That's a big part of it

Decent public transportation doesn't just happen; it requires folks with commitment and persistence to keep the idea of access, routes, and most of all development in the front of the minds of the powers that be. You'll know you're making good progress when the City officials are asking developers of new areas "What are your plans for bus routes?" before construction begins. You're making great progress when developers come in with plans that already accommodate public transit.

The bad news is that yes, you're fighting against big oil and auto dealers. The good news is that there are a lot of examples of success that have gone before. Don't be afraid to round up the local folks who depend on public transit to attend hearings. The more people in wheelchairs or with service (seeing eye) dogs testifying about how vital it is they have dependable public transit, the better. And no sane elected official is going to dare tell a blind person to shut up.

[dmallind]

24. My main concern is not financial viability but demand viability

Running empty buses does no-one any good, and is a waste of money. But the empty is the crux here. In the UK for example It's not a question of people clamoring for something the state will not provide - it's fewer and fewer people wanting to travel that way. And these are folks with all the challenges to car traffic I listed above AND mostly people who grew up with public transit as a norm (I'm not young but at 43 not ancient either and I never owned a car when I lived there - and traveled the same trains as the Managing Director - CEO - of the company I worked for) or whose parents definitely did. Outside major cities, the US has none of those advantages to attract transit riders, and yet my generation and younger are abandoning European mass transit in droves, sometimes for flexibility (Europeans are starting to realize you are not limited to restaurants or stores within a 5-10 mile radius that I simply took for granted - no Americans will), sometimes for image, sometimes for a longer commute (looal-only job searches were the norm for my age group too), sometimes for personal safety. What percentage of Americans are likely to go the opposite route with longer commutes, cheaper gas, more spacious roads, and a multi-generation history of car usage? Hardcore environmentalists, planned urbanization fans, non-drivers..... but who else.

A reminder - I WOULD take transit were it flexible enough in time and destination choices and even vaguely comparable in cost and time to cars, but then I am not a fan at all of urban driving - I would enjoy being a non-driver in other words. I just don't think there are enough, and precedent of Europe tells me the number will fall not rise.

[reggie the dog]

47. the uk and france are 2 different examples

why pay more for slow trains in the uk when our tgv high speed rail is cheaper per mile here in france? trains are less cost competitive in england than they are in france due to privitization. in the uk, private train lines try to make profit whereas in france they are a public service. many young people in urban areas of france see no reason to get a car but in rural areas cars are still popular.


in the uk it is often cheaper for 2 or 3 people to rent a car and pay for petrol than it is for them to take a train to their destination. in france, due to high tolls on the expressways and lower train prices this is not the case.

[MicaelS]

60. Some communities do not have and do not want mass transit

I'm not kidding. Case in point Arlington, Texas, halfway between Dallas and Fort Worth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arlington,_Texas

Arlington is the largest city in the United States not served by a comprehensive public transportation system. Voters have rejected a fixed-route bus transit system three times. However, Arlington has four transit systems targeting individual demographic groups. Handitran serves senior citizens and the disabled. Arlington hotels pay for a tourist-oriented shuttle bus system for their guests. The University of Texas at Arlington runs a shuttle service for college students. Lastly, Mission Arlington, an Arlington-run charity, has a bus system that circulates people needing various social services, as well as transportation to employment.

People in Arlington don't want mass transit because it "would allow undesirables into the community". I shit you not, that is what one Arlington politician said. And the voters there agree with that.

I live in Ft Worth, and we have the T and the service is great. I rode it for years. I moved and started working nights, and finally had to buy a car. Dallas has great mass transit, bus and light rail. We have intercity train service between Dallas and Ft Worth. But Arlington... the people there I'm ashamed of, and disgusted by.

[cemaphonic]

16. And even DC has the problem that a lot of mass transit systems have:

No suburb->suburb transit in an economy where that is increasingly the norm. The DC Metro is a thing of beauty if you live in Fairfax and work downtown. But if you live in Reston, and and work in College Park? You're riding the Beltway.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

35. Isn't there a Green Line station at College Park/U of MD?

Reston to College Park could be done with buses (Metro and/or Fairfax Connector?), and one transfer between Orange and Green Lines, but the time involved would be insane. Not that sitting on the Beltway in rush hour traffic is sane.

[cemaphonic]

41. Yeah, it's certainly possible,

just horribly time-consuming, especially considering that the actual distance traveled isn't really all that far.

[reggie the dog]

46. the trains being privitized may have to do with that

when the uk privitized prices for the train went up, in france the trains are still public and the price is more reasonable.

[dmallind]

54. True but more of an intercity issue than intracity commuting.

If you live in Central Leeds and work in Central Sheffield (35 miles or so), the admittedly poor UK trains are at least a choice (I'll take your word for pricing - no recent experience). But the typical commuter is more likely to go from outlying suburb to center, or other suburbs. Train commuting there is likely to need bus trips to and from both stations (that flexibility issue again) or very heavy walking. I did it as a young fit man with no family or evening commitments but 2.5 miles to the train station followed by 1.5 miles to work from the arrival station (reversed in the evening) fits few peoples' schedules or desires (unlike US train stations. suburban stations in the UK offer very little parking, so the park and ride option depends on finding rare on street parking nearby. Admittedly recent visits have shown some efforts to improve this around very large or very congested cities. York - not a huge place but one where medieval or earlier road layout makes it a very car-unfriendly place - is a good exemplar.

[reggie the dog]

56. look at the netherlands

they have very high car ownership rates but low use rates due to the popularity of park and ride outside of cities, good trains between cities, excllent bicycle infrastructure, trams, busses and light rail. i had a friend who lived in amsterdam and took the train to den bosch every day over an hour in train away, so that he could live in amsterdam. he had no car, but was young and fit with no children. now he lives in switzerland, does less of a commute in kilometers but has a car due to the lack of public transit compared to the netherlands

[WatsonT]

62. I've said much the same thing before

it's not a popular thing here. The answer is always "more public transit". That will somehow solve all our problems and anyone who disagrees has been bought out by big oil or big automotive or whatever.

Population density is the key to making public transit work well. And the US is the least densely populated first world nation in existence.

[pstokely]

19. In some places, people view public transportation as only for the poor "urban" population

I'm sure you know what that means. Suburban malls fight to keep public transportation away.

[Kievan Rus]

39. Pittsburgh Mills outside Pittsburgh does this, and is close to 25% empty

[reggie the dog]

44. woodfield mall and the towns of elk grove village and schaumburg

both majority white and middle to upper middle class fought the extention of the blue line from o'hare to woodfield and prefer that everyone take the busses to the blue line. with the bus and the el i can make it downtown in 1h 15 or 1h30 from my parents house but if it were the blue line it would only take an hour or so. one of the arguments was that too many urban people would come out which is strange for a mall not wanting clients to come out. with the cta pass it is only 25 cents of a transfer to take the bus anyways so people still come to the mall to work from the west side. during rush hour you spend an hour and a half to get downtown in your car so in time the train bus combo is still competetive and you are so much more relaxed when you arrive downtown in the el, i cant wait until my 3 and a half year old walks up the stairs at the jackson ave stop and pops out into the canyons of the skyscrapers this summer, she has grown up in france and we have no skyscraper district like chicago does so i cant wait to see her face, and yes, we will be taking the el....

[idiotgardener]

11. I'm wondering how a gas tax exemption for poor people would be implemented

[PVnRT]

17. I'm sure the author would support a "tax credit"

Which, of course, works so well for people who don't make enough to really pay taxes in the first place.

Point five in the OP's article is bullshit. "Oh, we can raise gas taxes, but we'll wave our magic wands so that the poor don't have to pay them! Abracadabra!"

[idiotgardener]

20. Yikes, a tax credit...

That could mean the people affected would have to keep track of how much gas they bought all year...

Our tax code is already out-of-control complicated.

[geardaddy]

15. American men love their right hands.

If they're right-handed.

It's true!

[reggie the dog]

48. i am a righty but "love" my left hand thank you very much....

;)

[DainBramaged]

21. (sigh)

I wonder if the two 'writers' have ever been to a car show....

[Warpy]

23. One thing that kept me in Boston for 20 years

was the ease of getting around on the subway system. I didn't own a car until the last 5 years and used that car only to get out of the city.

Getting around on the subway also kept me in great shape, running up and down stairs, running for trains, walking when I got to my stop.

There's a bus system here and since I'm in the inner city, I could probably use it to get around pretty easily, but this town was designed around the car, meaning walking distances are prolonged by vast expanses of parking lots everywhere. It's not terribly friendly to walkers and only my part of town is friendly to bicyclists.

The one thing that will drive me out of this part of the country is needing a car. I really don't enjoy driving. I hate maintaining it. And now it's expensive to feed.

[ileus]

26. I love my Jeep, and teens will always love freedom the car brings...

the others....eh maybe.

[reggie the dog]

50. if you live in a city cars bring little freedom at a high cost

yes you can use the car to leave the city, go out to the countryside or the burbs and all but at what price? how much for insurance? how much for gas? how much for parking? with what job seeing as adults are taking lots of the shit jobs teens used to take? how will the kid buy the car? for them freedom comes with an iphone, being connected to friends like that and taking the bus or subway to visit people, go to school or go to work.

[Yavin4]

27. Bottom Line Is This: Cars Will Become Increasingly Too Expensive To Operate

As long as autos rely on fossil fuels, they will be too expensive to operate which will make massive publc transportation systems a necessity. I long believe that our infrastructure needs more public mass transit which would also create jobs here in the U.S.

[hunter]

28. I hate my &^%$#$*&^ cars...

... and I resent every second I spend driving them, fixing them, thinking about them, and every dollar I spend on them.

Bloody hell if I ever have to buy another one.

Good car:



Bad car:

Anything you can't fix with a screwdriver, a socket set, a hammer, and a can of spray paint.

[NuttyFluffers]

59. same here. hate cars.

anyone who says it's the feeling of freedom never lived in a country where not-for-profit mass transit simulates this need fully. it can be done, just not in backwards Amerika.

[ramona come closer]

30. I never wanted a car. Ever.

Most teens in my day did and I think it's still the case, if not more so. But I had to take driver's ed, got a D, and never have gotten a license in all these years. Don't want one either.

[ZombieHorde]

31. Fun read for some reason. Recommended. nt

[bvar22]

32. In 1967, Hi-Test (104 Octane) was 27 cents/ gallon,

and American Iron Ruled.

[cigsandcoffee]

37. Cars can be an incredible expression of art...

...or even just a mild expression of identity. I'm in the business - I see the love for them pretty much everyday. I have to agree - America is a car culture. But that doesn't mean people wouldn't gravitate toward other forms of transportation that may antiquate the car someday. For the moment, though, public transportation just isn't it.

[Kievan Rus]

38. Car culture is simply not sustainable

America will one day develop a more European or New York-style mode of transportation, even if it has be dragged kicking and screaming into such progress.

The car culture simply can't be sustained as it is. Car-dependent exurbs are the slums of tomorrow.

[reggie the dog]

45. exurbs are the slums in france today

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

74. I have been in many French suburbs

and most of them look like any other suburb anywhere on earth, the slums are US style housing projects that just happened to be built in the suburbs.

[dmallind]

65. Both (urban) Europe and NYC are jammed to the brim with cars

The only reason NYC ($40/day parking spots are full) and European cities like Milan (double parking is a luxury - triple is common) or London (you have to pay a non-trivial daily amount to drive within it) have excellent transit systems is because too many people want cars to be able to operate them at the same time in the same place. And again, population density drives all that:

Manhattan (jammed with cars but great transit) 71000/sq mile
Houston (jammed with cars and lousy transit) 3350/sq mile.

All we need is 40 million people in Houston and you can bet your bippy they'd have a great subway too!

For completeness - London is about 12.5k and Milan about 18k per sq mile.

With a trivial number of exceptions, US cities cannot be compared to European ones in this manner.

[reggie the dog]

67. compare cities as follows

- Density 20,807 /km2 (53,890 /sq mi Paris

- Density 4,447.4/km2(11,864.4/sq mi Chicago

- Density (10,630/km2 27,532/sq mi new york city

Density (4,807/km2 12,450/sq mi London

all 4 of these cities have good public transit networks but i have to say that paris's is the easiest to get everywhere in town on but it is not surprising with its 53 890 people per square mile.

[dmallind]

68. that's the point

and remember NYC has pretty lousy transit in some of the less dense boroughs (the 71k/sq mile Manhattanites get the gold standard) - the subway doesn't go everywhere. Even Chicago has good core transit and feeding city from closer suburbs but if you want to go from Winnetka to Tinley Park, it's not convenient to do anything but drive. Never been to Paris so no clue but undoubtedly better. Wonder how the outer burbs work even there though. From this limited sample from both of us it seems <10k/sq mile is unlikely to have successful mass transit.

One caveat for anyone here, me included for sure, is to be careful about demographic specificity. Chicago has 11k/sq mile but transit must serve the burbs to be successful and useful too. Chicagoland I doubt is that dense (I THINK the London number I gave is metro. City of London may be very different)

[reggie the dog]

70. paris is awesome

you can do lots of commutes from basically any suburb to the city with the rer trains, suburban rail trains and the like, suburb to suburb is taken care of by a ring tram in the close in suburbs and a ring bus on the outskirts of paris, but yes, suburb to suburb is often a car trip but more suburbs can easily access the trains and more suburb to suburb is possilbe than in chicago, going elk grove to plainfield means needing a car, going up to woodstock, richmond and you need a car, now sometimes we do go arlington heights to crystal lake in the train but your friends have to come pick you up in their car.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

75. Yes, lets use one of the most unaffordable cities on earth as a model

Kicking and screaming? try an insurgency.

[blueamy66]

49. Public transportation in AZ sux

I must have a car.

If I don't drive to work, I add 3 hours to my work day and I'm not willing to give up those hours.

On the other hand, I refuse to buy a new car and have a car payment and a high insurance premium. I just don't "get" the need for either.

[JonLP24]

64. It sucks on the weekend

because I live in Mesa. They come every hour rather than every half hour on Saturday and don't come at all on Sunday. Love the free neighborhood circulator though, they got several in Tempe. Light rail is great, gets me to downtown Phoenix in 20 minutes. We could definitely use more light rail routes & trains. Link bus service is also great but it doesn't take me places I usually go.

It certainly keeps improving IMO, Repubs in Mesa are big obstructionists to making public transportation more available in Mesa.

[blueamy66]

76. I've got to try the light rail.

The bus service in Chandler is just horrible.

Like I said, if I wanted to give up 3 hours of my day, I could make it work....but just not willing right now.

[Mimosa]

53. I love our car!

I love our Subaru Legacy! LOVE IT!!!

[WatsonT]

61. The third one

the myth that our economy is dependent on the car industry isn't helped by washington saying the exact same thing every time the big three get in trouble.

[Union Scribe]

63. Oh, a Google results comparison. That settles that, then.

We all know what a solid surveying technique that is.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

73. I would rather be dead than on the bus, no media manipulation required

I can get from my home to my office, when it is 110 degrees outside in air conditioned comfort in 15 minutes flat. And I would sacrifice almost anything else before giving that up. And I will never have to deal with Epic Beard Man, Bloody Loco or this individual presumably announcing his candidacy for the 2012 Republican nomination.
http://gawker.com/5800433/berserk-naked-racist-wig+out-marks-another-day-on-the-nyc-subways