She * totally* gets it. If only Americans would wake up.

[NeoConsSuck]

Regarding Obama's Middle East speech:

Gigi Ibrahim, a 24-year-old Egyptian activist and blogger, predicted Obama's words will have little impact in her country.

"At this point, whatever President Obama will address will really be irrelevant to what the situation is now because we're really building democracy from the bottom up," Ibrahim told CNN, adding that "America is not the model of democracy that we are striving for."

She called U.S. policy on the Middle East "hypocritical" because, she said, the United States "will support a dictatorship if it's aligned with its interests."

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/05/19/obama.mideast/index.html?hpt=T1

[hfojvt]

1. right, the USA is evil for not supporting Iranian type democracy?

I gotta agree with Obama there. A dictator who likes us is better than a Democratically elected President who hates us.

Not sure what your point is. Just to mention that you have another reason for hating Obama and America?

[Fumesucker]

4. Better for who?

The people of the country in question?

[hfojvt]

10. probably them too

although it would not be irrational to expect a person I vote for to put myself, my friends, family and neighbors ahead of them, if those were the only choices.

[Fumesucker]

20. Yes, dictators are so benevolent when they're *our* dictators..

[Rex]

16. It is sad, but predictable that people would take a dictator over a democracy.

Pathetic that it happens here on DU. As long as the country 'likes us'...of course the next day when they betray us we can kill them all. Makes one wonder how we ever got out of the Stone Age. I guess population growth outpaced all the people killing each other 'because that guy didn't like me.' :eyes:

Looks like her words of truth stung just the right people.

[Hannah Bell]

35. in new york they voted to give bloomberg dictatorial powers.

we love dictators.

[texshelters]

8. Thanks for the overreaction

but no one said that they "hated" Obama or America.

Why all the defensiveness? Or are you just like the Republicans that think any sort of criticism of our beloved nation is the same as hatred of it?

Peace,
Tex Shelters

[hfojvt]

11. any sort of criticism

maybe I react like many Americans when an Egyptian says that "America does not have a model we want to emulate" and then attacks us for being hypocrites.

Yeah, if only the rest of the country would wake up and have contempt for the American government just like Egyptian bloggers/activists.

No, they didn't say that they hated, I inferred it and then asked if that was their point, because otherwise I didn't get their point.

You didn't explain their point either, just attacked me and then closed with "peace".

[Lionessa]

14. "attacks us," wtf? Speaking their mind, being proud of their own democratic

efforts which they see as different and are hopefully better is attacking?

Additionally, WE ARE HYPOCRITES, so she should lie and say that all democracies should emulate ours when we are the cause of much of the problems in the world and certainly the #1 killer of persons be they enemies or "just collateral damage"? We are the #1 or #2 imprisoners in the world, should they want that too in their democracy, or the racism and classism that is associated with our prison systm, or violence rather than rehabilitation therein?

Patriotism as you see it, I cannot agree with.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lionessa]

22. True enough, but from whenceever they come, they

should be called on the carpet and reminded of reality.

[hfojvt]

31. Well, thank goodness, you don't like hate the USA or something

"the cause of much of the problems in the world"

My own patriotism doesn't seem to be as strong as your contempt.

[defendandprotect]

75. +1000% -- agree ... and these comments should wake us all up -- !!

[texshelters]

18. Yes, they didn't say they hated us

but they honestly pointed out our hypocrisy as a nation.

I sign out "Peace" to everyone, even nationalists like you who are hurt by criticism of the poor and weak US.

Peace,
Tex Shelters

[hfojvt]

30. sign out however you want

I just pointed out the hypocrisy of attacking somebody and then signing out peace.

I am hardly hurt, but I am not gonna cheer about what I see as hatred of the US.

[cui bono]

76. Hatred? What did she say that was hateful?

Your overreaction makes me picture you sitting at your computer wearing an Uncle Sam outfit, blasting the national anthem, with a big foam #1 on your hand waving it in the air shouting "USA! USA! USA! USA!"

All she did was offer an accurate and appropriate reason for why she doesn't want to follow the US' model of democracy. I whole heartedly agree with her. Our democracy is broken and our foreign policy is extremely hypocritical and selfish.

[hfojvt]

85. you're a hypocrite, and selfish too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak8suW-JBzE

Are you sure that's not hateful?

Does it become less hateful because it's accurate? Then it must be okay for me to ridicule fat people for being fat. That's not hateful. Just "accurate and appropriate".

Oh yeah, I do love this song (and this performance in spite of her politics) (and could also do without the bomber).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJNqep77vBw

"Breathes there a man with soul so dead that he never to himself has said 'this is my own, my native land'?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB3kQZJ2aLw

[cui bono]

96. another baseless accusation.

Prove what you just said about me.

[hfojvt]

101. you proved it for me

My claim was that those words were hateful. You claimed that they were not.

Yet when directed at you, you took offense.

Thereby proving my point.

Which was why I said what I did. Not because I believed it was true, but because I believed it would show that those words are hateful. When they were directed at MY country, I took offense.

[dflprincess]

32. "America does not have a model we want to emulate"

maybe they're hoping for a democracy where election results can be trusted and a corporate owned media doesn't pick which corporate owned candidates the voters get to choose from.

:shrug:

[hfojvt]

39. I guess it would be awful if they ended up with people like Franken, Dayton and Klobuchar

not to mention Ventura highway.

I think we get it right sometimes. But if they think they can reinvent the wheel, then go for it, and by all means, give me a call when you've put a man on the moon, defeated Hitler, invented the lightbulb, the airplane and the internet, and helped to rebuild Europe.

[dflprincess]

40. Klobuchar is useless

and was shoved down our throats by the DLC wing of the DNC and leadership of the DFL. If we had a democracy where the incumbant didn't have the advantage of large "conrtibutions" being made to their reelection, we would hopefully have someone challenge her for the endorsement next year.

Ventura won with about 35% of the vote - a majority of Minnesotans did not vote for him. Not really a good example of democracy in action.

Do you believe that the 2000 election wasn't stolen? Do you support the Citizens United decision?

The Soviets had a lot to do with defeating Hitler and gave us a run for our money in the "space race". And really, what did the U.S. brand of democracy have to do with inventing the light bulb or the airplane?

[mistertrickster]

67. Actually, the Soviet Union defeated Hitler, but I see your point. nt

[liberation]

87. I find it ironic that those individuals who are the most intellectually lazy...

are the ones who feel they own the intellectual achievements of our nation?

When you say publicly you'd rather have a friendly dictator than a dissenting democracy, it is clear you don't have the slightest understanding of how the democratic process works or what it implies. Our country did some of those things you mentioned (although technically, the Russians got Hitler but I guess that is too much detail/nuance for you to grasp) not because of people like you, but in spite of people like you. So congratulations, shine with pride!

[hfojvt]

100. I find it ironic

that somebody who makes an argument that is 90% personal attacks thinks OTHER people are intellectually lazy.

[Enthusiast]

42. No, you betrayed your thoughts.

Your words could be right out of the RW playbook. You don't think we have been hypocrites?

[sabrina 1]

45. We ARE hyocrites. We spout democracy and then go around the

world killing and torturing people and not holding anyone accountable for those crimes.

We support some of the most brutal dictators, in her country our support for Mubarak helped cause unbelievable brutality towards her people. We USED his police state torture program to send our detainees to and then, told the world when the Egyptian people finally had enough and rose against that regime, that 'Mubarak is a good friend and ally' and Biden claimed he 'is not a dictator'. While our diplomats wined and dined in Mubarak's lavish palaces, political prisoners were being tortured simply for speaking out about policies, one famous Egyptian disseneter hearing that Hillary Clinton would be visiting, wrote her a moving letter from one of Mubarak's dungeons, hoping for some help for their country. But he was ignored.

At the moment we are financing one of the world's worst dictators in Uzbekistan, a man who is known to do such delightful things as boil people in oil and then deliver their bodies to their families as a warning in case they might get some ideas about 'democracy and freedom'. Karamov, we send him money which keeps him in power while his people, if they even peacefully demonstrate, are mowed down in the streets. According to the Wikileaks cables we KNOW how bad he is, but as one cable said 'he lets us build bases there'.

How good is it for those people to have a dictator rather than a democracy?

Our policies have been brutal for millions of people around the world. We got away with it for a long time, but now, as was inevitable, people in all of our allied dictatorships have had enough! And if we don't like it, that's too bad.

Our illegal invasions, drone killings, torture programs, and theft of resources have given Democracy a bad name.

We could change those policies and start supporting real democracies. But like spoiled brats, rather than buy what we need from other nations, we got so used to taking and controlling other people's resources we can't give up the profits and the power.

But it looks like the world is moving on and leaving us behind with our remaining dictator friends. South America, N. Africa, the ME. Let's see if we can join the democratic movements spreading all over the world and give up our Imperial/Colonial ways. We could use some democracy right here. But I doubt it. Like all empires before us someone else will probably have to make us do it.

[SharksBreath]

50. Why would they want to emularte a fascist corporate "democracy."

[AlbertCat]

63. "America does not have a model we want to emulate" and then attacks us for being hypocrites.

What's untrue about this statement?

Why "should" Egyptians think differently?

[hfojvt]

71. just because I walk like an Egyptian

does not mean I think like one.

[mistertrickster]

66. She's right. 80 percent of Americans want higher taxes on the rich.

Did we get them?

In 2000, Gore won by over half a million votes. Who was President?

A solid majority wanted a public option for health care reform.

Yeah, how'd that work out?

We have the illusion of democracy here.

[hfojvt]

83. Did WE vote for them?

If Republicans had not won the elections of 2010, we might have gotten higher taxes on the rich. If the people really wanted a public option, then they shouldn't have elected all those Republicans in 2010. Because none of those Congressional Republicans want a public option, much less single payer.

We get the government that people vote for. Just because you and some others don't like the one we get does not mean we have an illusion.

As for Gore. I am pretty sure that if Gore had won the electoral college, say, by winning New Hampshire after Nader dropped out, but had lost by 500,000 votes in the popular total, that we would not be gnashing our teeth about the illusion of democracy. We didn't complain too much in 1992 when a vast majority of the voters voted for "not Clinton". At least I didn't complain too much, even though I was one of them.

We are a long, long way from a perfect system with perfect results, but I think it stands up pretty well to anything else that is out there, many of which were perhaps inspired by our own system. Foreigners who want to dis us are not getting any respect or applause from me.

[mistertrickster]

89. "I think it stands up pretty well to anything else that is out there"

That's where we differ.

Europe's democracies work better imho.

The UK's and Japan, not so much.

[RaleighNCDUer]

84. You do understand, don't you, that America is not the only democracy in the world.

In fact, so long as we pursue empire, I'm not sure we can truly be called a democracy.

There are many other, and better, models for the Egyptians to emulate than Imperial America.

[defendandprotect]

74. Excuse me? I just ALERTED on a thread which below which says just that -- !!

[Lionessa]

12. What does loving a superpower bully like USa have to do with democracy.

Are we, is USa, too much of a bully and a baby at the same time? We need everyone to love us as we steal their resources, become party to their citizens slavish employment, mis-translate their messages for political and media hype, and destroy their environments? Gosh, what's not to love?

[MedicalAdmin]

58. Welcome to DU. Thanks for your contributions.

[defendandprotect]

77. +1000% -- Keep on telling' it -- !!!

:)

[truedelphi]

88. But at least over the last twenty years or so, our political class has

Become more consistent.

They steal from our middle class and poorer people just as much as they steal from the middle class in other nations.

[Angry Dragon]

19. That is kinda funny

Iran had a democracy in 1953 until we overthrew it and put in a dictator called the Shah of Iran

And what difference does it make if a democratic country hates us??

[BOG PERSON]

28. on the one hand

i agree with you that it's not in the US's character to promote democracy in other countries because it's not in the US's interests

on the other hand, i think it's a little weird for private citizens to think about their government's foreign policy in terms of realpolitik or whatever when the State Dept is already doing that for them much (prob. more skillfully too) 24/7.

[Taft_Bathtub]

33. America overthrew Iranian democracy in the 1950s

along with the British at the behest of British Petroleum.

Iranians had the silly notion that they should get money from oil in their own country, silly I know!

Here you go:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat

[defendandprotect]

78. America worked to keep liberal governments out of power all over Europe and Japan post WWII...

and they even resurrected the Italian Mafia to help them do it --

and I think 15,000 or 18,000 troops working on it --

false flag stuff, etal --


See: Operation Gladio

[GOTV]

44. Why did you say "evil"? She didn't. Strawman much?

[eridani]

46. Yes--the elite policymakers are evil for overthrowing a secular democracy in Iran in 1953

Any other questions?

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ChadwickHenryWard]

54. That attitude is why people hate America.

Put yourself in the place of, say, an Egyptian under Mubarak. How would you feel if you heard somebody from America say that you weren't allowed to have democracy in your country because somebody less friendly toward the US than Mubarak might win? Or if that's too remote, what if Egypt told you you couldn't vote for Barack Obama because he wasn't friendly enough to Egypt? How would you feel about that nation, and more particularly how would you view that nation's commitment to democracy? Wouldn't you have anger or cynicism towards that nation's pronouncements about freedom?

Beyond that, it's really not constructive in a debate to accuse somebody of "hating America."

[hfojvt]

69. that attitude though is why so many Americans hate liberals

When an Egyptian says "America sucks" the liberal puts themselves in the place of the Egyptian and says "yeah, they are right, America does suck".

When that happens consistently, people start to think that you "hate America". Most Americans put themselves in the place of, say, an American in Kansas. How do they feel when Egyptians say "America sucks" and liberals applaud? They give a big fuck you to the Egyptian and then one for the liberal too.

Of course, we know that is just because the idiots have not read Chomsky or Perkins and so they are just not edjumacated enough to hate America like all the smart people do.

And then we wonder why we cannot win elections.

Then even when we win, we get mad and spew hatred at the Democrat President because he doesn't seem to hate America enough.

But I am supposed to be a liberal, because I support these issues, in this approximate order.

1. progressive taxes
2. good schools
3. effective social programs
4. peace
5. the environment
6. infrastructure and services

Other than "peace" meaning "staying out of wars, and not invading other countries" (which probably should be 2nd, ahead of good schools and social programs) foreign policy does not even make the list. I see a huge difference between a Mubarek supporting President who supports progressive taxes and a Mubarek supporting President who supports the Ryan budget. Because for the most part I could really give a rat's patootie if Mubarek is head of Egypt or if Kerabum (an imaginary person, the opposite of Mubarek) is.

But, yes I would rather have a Mubarek who is an ally of the U.S. than a Kerabum, even a democratically elected Kerabum, who is an enemy of the U.S.

[MedicalAdmin]

So... better the evil we know than someone we don't control?

Wow. I don't suppose you support slavery too, do you? After all if the ends justify the means...

[Marr]

61. "...hating Obama and America".

I'm finding it difficult to distinguish the words of hardcore Obama fans from those of the Bushbots from a few years ago. Funny how the same sentiments seemed so moronic when they were coming out from the other team.

[hfojvt]

68. now I am a hardcore fan

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/138

No, he cross a line there to put him on my excrement list, but that doesn't mean he deserves to get attacked for everything.

[cui bono]

79. I think that every time I read those type of posts here.

Blind loyalty isn't good for either side. This is not a team sport.

[defendandprotect]

80. +1 --

[Enrique]

94. Iranian style democracy?

who's talking about that, and who calls Iran a democracy? :crazy:

[onethatcares]

2. "support a dictatorship", hell, we'll install one if we need it.

this is the reason the internets are so needed. There isn't a country today that isn't fumbling around trying to shut the door on citizens speaking out, speaking together and pushing for basic rights. The powers are scared and they'll fabricate any reason to stop the communication.

Gigi Ibrahim really gets it. More power to her.

[NeoConsSuck]

9. with a big red beacon, and a flag and a man on the rail..

Love your sigline!! My favorite NY song. :)

[dionysus]

48. i think you better call john, cause it don't look like they're here to deliver, the mail...

[defendandprotect]

81. Reid just made a deal to Extend PATRIOT ACT another 4 years -- !!

[Lionessa]

3. Nail meet hammer.

We're not only hypocrites, we're bully hypocrites. We lose face and credibility with each passing day.

[texshelters]

5. I have yet to read the speech

but if it's like most, it will be full of more of the same nationalism and pandering as other president's speeches on foreign policy.

Peace,
Tex Shelters

[socialist_n_TN]

6. That my dear, is called imperialism........

It's the final stage of the capitalist system. When you run out of enough resources (including human ones) in your own sphere of influence to exploit, you have to go global to find those resources. This leads to the founding of a "de facto" Empire. Imperialism.

[seabeyond]

7. obama from day one was saying egypts to do, and all for it. it was members of du

and others that were insisting the u.s. interfer once again adn du for egypt

[girl gone mad]

13. k & r

[Raffi Ella]

15. wow, ok.

http://twitter.com/#!/gsquare86

She is a LOT more complex and controversial than your OP makes her out to be. You really should do some research before praising such a person.

[Fumesucker]

21. Her quoted words have a ring of truth to them.

Of course such speech would be controversial.

The words we read are what we are commenting on.


"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act..." -Orwell

[NeoConsSuck]

23. I took that quote

from that bleeding heart, left wing, commie pinko website, CNN.COM

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/05/19/obama.mideast/index.html?hpt=T1

[Lionessa]

24. Okay, I scanned her twitter, what about them bothers you?

I don't see anything particularly untoward, unless you mean she's pro-Palestinian.

[Taft_Bathtub]

34. What's wrong with her twitter?

I don't read Arabic but her English posts are all fine.

[bvar22]

25. THAT gives me "HOPE" for the World,

along with the Populist Reforms sweeping across in Latin America (and unreported or demonized by the MSM and the leaders of BOTH Political parties).

"The worst enemy of humanity is U.S. capitalism. That is what provokes uprisings like our own, a rebellion against a system, against a neoliberal model, which is the representation of a savage capitalism. If the entire world doesn't acknowledge this reality, that nation states are not providing even minimally for health, education and nourishment, then each day the most fundamental human rights are being violated."
----Bolivian Reform President Evo Morales

FDR said much the same thing in 1944 with his Economic Bill of Rights.
Bolivian President Evo Morales sounds more like FDR than anyone in the Democratic Party Leadership.

[MedicalAdmin]

59. In the late 1990's, Chomskey predicted that...

... the USA would become the biggest threat worldwide to democracy unless we changed our ways.

Was he right? Are we?

[Kablooie]

26. We also support fascism if it aligns with the monied interests.

[jp11]

27. She's right but in time the government they build would do the exact same thing.

Until the day comes that nations around the world don't do that because they unite to protect people from each other regardless of the local government OR there simply is no need to do that.

[Kind of Blue]

29. Isn't that just a given though?

I don't see how anyone could expect otherwise. Russia's democracy is different from Singapore's democracy that's different from ours. And the president said as much in the speech today. "Not every country will follow our particular form of representative democracy..."

[MannyGoldstein]

36. Ibrahim is unrealistic and increasingly irrelevant

I *think* that's what the kids are calling it these days.

[AtheistCrusader]

37. The Egyptians aren't blind or stupid. We had our chance. We blew it.

[Muskypundit]

38. I find the Egyptians hypocritical

They go out in masses, hundreds of thousands of them to protest to oust Mubarak. A U.S propped up asshole. They let the military get in charge, and the same shit they protested about Mubarak happened on a daily basis. Only, this time it was the military doing it. And their outrage... fairly muted about all the instances of military abuse of power. I guess the Egyptians are fine with evil, as long as its their evil. Im sick of it all. I wish them good luck, but I think they are just going to hand over their government to an Iranian puppet. And thats ok. Because at least they are not Americans.

[SharksBreath]

52. I find your comment totally ignorant.

I bet your a sock puppet for Obama while he's doing pretty much the same shit Bush did.

Some even worse.

[stevenleser]

55. Interesting observation. n/t

[bvar22]

56. Beam...eye....remove....

*

[cui bono]

82. So you're disappointed they didn't reconstruct their whole govt.

in 30 days or less?

Did you read anything about how they regard the military and how it functioned throughout the protests?

:eyes:

[liberation]

86. Your fundamentally flawed argument sort of proves her point

Iran and Egypt are two very different countries/societies. To begin with, Iran is Shia and Persian and Egypt is Sunni and Arab. The people in this thread claiming how the Egyptians are "clamoring" for an Iranian puppet regime are displaying such level of ignorance, that frankly they are sort validating the lady's words.

[Muskypundit]

95. The U.S is white and christian

and Egypt is arab and sunni. Yet they were our puppet state up until half a year ago. They are not clamoring for it, its just a possibility they will end up with if they dont demand accountability from their government now. Which by and large, they arnt. And yes I am well aware of the role the military played during the protests. The people cheered them, and the military refused to fire on protesters and in some cases protested with the people. WHICH IS WHY THEY ARE HYPOCRITICAL. Do you know what their military government is doing now? They just passed a law banning protests, and have thrown in prison and tortured protesters. Where is the outrage on that front?

[cui bono]

97. The US is white and christian???

:wtf:

[Muskypundit]

98. hold the outrage

We are as white and Christian as Egypt is Sunni and Arab. It's just demographics. Especially for the people in power. Try running a non Christian and see what happens 99.9 percent of the time.

[Enthusiast]

41. She really does totally get it..............nt

[BlueMTexpat]

43. Actually, since the 1980s, the US has generally been slipping as

"the model of democracy" that most societies are striving for.

Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_European_Dream and the book itself at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/European-Dream-Jeremy-Rifkin/dp/1585423459

[TxVietVet]

47. She's right. That's the history of the US.

[PATRICK]

51. Do many Americans outside Foggy Bottom

believe or support the interventionist foreign policy of the US with its attendant mythology? Granted many Americans would just as soon be isolationist(while being blinded to continued corporate interest protection in exploited countries abroad) with a touch of unjustified superiority about the state of our own democracy.

The whole thing is very very tired even if there is a vestige of genuine value, even naive hypocrisy in our policy. We have never been presented with a gram of truth about this and not much in internal matters like the economy, fair elections, media, education, social programs, human rights but the drumbeat of myths taps on undimmed up there- somewhere- as if the truth does not exist even as a concept.

Some prosperity and libertarian living void of a fair and sane national forum keeps us from the pain that is all too exposed and real to the bombed and exploited objects of our protection overseas. Our "building" or rebuilding reputation has all but vanished, but the beat "drones" on.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

53. Meh, good for her

Maybe if she's lucky, she'll actually get to vote too.

[felix_numinous]

57. The 'America' Ms. Ibrahim was referring to

is the MIC/Corporatocracy--whose aggressive and violent policies have destroyed many countries, and are in the process of destroying what was once ours. They dominate foreign policy, and are the 'face' of America right now.

Who is America? Who are 'we'? If 'we' identify with and support the MIC and the aggressive foreign policies being perpetrated in our names, then yes, I guess that explains taking her statement personal.

This is a big country, and many of us who love their country dearly do not wish to be represented by this violent segment of our population. We can separate from these policies and still be patriotic dammit!

[jwirr]

60. Yes, yes, yes. We have destroyed more countries in this world by

forcing them to do things our way than any of our so called enemies. One size does not fit all.

[Exilednight]

62. We only pay lip service to democracy. Just ask Venezuela. n/t

[Taverner]

64. I'm hoping Turkey will serve as a model

Turkey has a great parliamentary system, and has probably the closest thing a mainly Muslim country has in terms of separation of church and state

[Exilednight]

93. Turkey is not the ideal model. The only thing that keeps the seperation of church and state is

the military. Just like we in America keep battling the neocons and inching closer and closer to a theological driven country, Turkey has been moving to the right in leaps and bounds.

Geography, also, plays a huge role in Turkey's political system. During the cold war, most of the Balkan states were under Russian communist rule, and thus atheist. Now that the Balkans is no longer under Russian Communism, many Balkan states have turned to extremist religious states or at the very least suffer from religious ethnic cleansing.

In turn, Turkey has been steadily electing more and more candidates that are further and further to the right.

Let us also not forget that Turkey has seen several military coups over the years.

[mistertrickster]

65. Whoa, that cut right to the chase. nt

[joeybee12]

70. Pretty much tells you how we're regarded in other countries...nt

[Witt78]

72. Amazing!

Amazing how some of us still think that America is a Democracy...

It's not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXDKNH9PctU

Deimos Cratea... It's Greek. Deimos means, "The People" and Cratea means, "Rule".

Rule by the people... Deimos Cratea... We are not a Democracy in the USA. Period.

[defendandprotect]

73. America is NOT the model of democracy any American should be striving for, either!!

[lovuian]

90. We have no credibility in the world

the rhetoric is useless

[Bluesbreaker]

91. We just helped overthrow democracy in Honduras

The U.S. (Obama administration) is doing everything in its power to support the leadership installed by a coup that displaced the democratically elected leader of the country. This is nothing new. We did the same thing when Salvador Allende was president of Chile. Mubarack was our man in Egypt for years, and the U.S. supported his military and police with weapons and training, which were used against Egyptian citizens. Small wonder they don't want a U.S. model for their new government.

[DeSwiss]

92. K&R

"If we conclude for example, that the street is going to win, there's no point in butting our heads against the wall in order to save a government that's doomed. On the other hand if we're convinced that the street is going to fail, there's no point massively antagonizing the government with which we have to deal after whatever happens is over." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80GJ30yvLzI&feature=player_detailpage#t=93s">~Zbigniew Brzezinski

(Translation: America will back any asshole dictator that serves our interest no matter how many of their people they torture, maim or kill. And no matter how much our support widens the disparity between the haves and the have-nots -- we don't give a fuck -- it's all about us, capice? And we will drop their asses like a hot potato the minute they become a liability and/or make the wrong people's stock prices fall. This is what it means to be "useful" to America and the West. Otherwise go fuck yourself.)

[treestar]

99. Then what are they striving for, according to her?

And why doesn't she get on with it? Why is she bothering the US about it?