Should we just go ahead and do away with the idea of separation between church and state?

[Lyric]

And get rid of all the federal, state, and local laws that maintain and legally uphold that idea?

Since there are apparently quite a few people, even on the left, who think that we shouldn't actually ENFORCE them, what's the point in having them? What good is a law that is ignored for political and/or social expediency?

:shrug:

[Deep13]

1. I'm for the 1st Amendment, first, last and always. nt

[Arugula Latte]

2. Could we just get rid of religion instead?

:evilgrin:

[Lyric]

4. From your mouth to the Spaghetti Monster's noodly ear.

:rofl:

[SDuderstadt]

5. Not without trampling on the...

1st Amendment.

[dionysus]

18. why SDuderstadt. where you goin with that bag of severed heads and first ammendment?

[SDuderstadt]

20. Apparently, my hypocrisy knows...

no bounds.

[Union Scribe]

32. Yet the OP didn't have a problem with that violation of the Constitution

Things that make you go hmmm...

[SDuderstadt]

34. I am not a "believer", but...

I firmly support the rights of "believers" up to, but not including, imposing their beliefs upon the rest of us or harassing others based upon our non-belief.

[Lyric]

39. Say what?

I'd love to see religion go away, but only as a social artifact that decays from disuse. I don't believe the government should forbid it. Please tell me where I seriously advocated for a government ban on religion.

:shrug:

[RegieRocker]

3. Hell no!

[NoGOPZone]

6. Other, I regret that this poll is necessary. nt

[blondeatlast]

9. Is it necessary? nt

[NoGOPZone]

10. after seeing a couple of the replies on the other church and state thread

I unfortunately think it is necessary.

updated for link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1134522&mesg_id=1134522

[blondeatlast]

11. Edit: Egads, I went there.

I get damn tired of feeling the need to apologize for all my "persecuted" brethren.

Ick.

[Avant Guardian]

7. Unless we want to be like the Taliban or the Saudis

[blondeatlast]

8. Hell no. nt

[JitterbugPerfume]

12. no , because

religion corrupts government (Jefferson)
and

government corrupts religion (Madison)

or is it just the opposite? I am never sure

at any rate , both views are correct

[blondeatlast]

13. I believe you are correct, both in your attributions and your idea. nt

[hlthe2b]

14. You state that there are those on the left, "who think... we shouldn't...ENFORCE them"...

Can you please point me to those citations or posts? Where do you get this impression that there are large numbers of liberal/progressives that feel this way?

[blondeatlast]

16. Mild overreaction--it wouldn't be DU without it, would it?

:hi:

[hlthe2b]

24. chuckle...

No, indeed. ;)

[Fumesucker]

17. Read the thread about the atheist kid challenging graduation prayers in a public school..

There are at least three on there who think the kid was wrong to stand up for the rule of law.

[Cid_B]

21. Don't get confused...

He was well within his legal rights. I just think he is a weakling.

[NoGOPZone]

22. A true weakling wouldn't have stood up for his legal rights nt

[blondeatlast]

23. Why a "weakling"? nt

[Cid_B]

26. As a whole?

He feels that the words of others have some sort of effect on him.

As I said in the other thread, instead of dealing with his own insecurity he forces the way he thinks things should be on the larger group. Invest in a 50 cent set of ear plugs.

If they want to pray, sing, wear a duck on their head... who cares? He can do what he likes and so should they.

[blondeatlast]

28. This Christian calls "reverse."

The school realized their mistake--and the student is a weakling? I think it took great courage. When I grajjed, as a Christian, I attended a purely voluntary convocation that meant a lot to me. It would not have been so moving if people had to be feel uncomfortable because a gathering in spirit was forced upon them.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hubert Flottz]

15. Typo

that should read "separation between church and snake" shouldn't it?

[FiveGoodMen]

19. OH MOTHERFUCKING HELL NO!

That's how the Middle East became the way it is.

Not knocking you for asking the question, but I'd gladly declare war, pick up a gun, and start mowing down ANYONE who would answer yes.

America is NOTHING without that separation.

Nothing.

[AsahinaKimi]

27. There are many right wingers who are hoping for that to happen

And I am sure many of them would find a way to pass a State law that "so-in-so" State is now a Christian State, and no other Beliefs are welcome. That day has yet to arrive yet, and when it does, you will be hearing the screams of protest from there to every shore of this nation.

[defendandprotect]

29. And we need to get our taxpayer $ back from the "faith-based" religious organizations ...

which Bush began but Obama is continuing with -- and has increased funding for!

Most of these organizations are connected to the Roman Catholic Church --

which desperately needed money to pay off their pedophile lawsuits right about the

time that Bush did this favor for them -- eh, coincidentally.


In fact, Catholics were out in the streets, if anyone recalls that time -- protesting

because the church was selling off property -- schools and churches -- in order to

raise money.

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

30. If we got rid of C&S, then we could start taxing the churches.

[Union Scribe]

31. If "separation of church and state" means no prayer at graduations

or various public gatherings then I guess there never was any separation to begin with, so your question is moot. Do you really argue that since the time the First Amendment was drawn up that no prayers were uttered at state functions and that now there's some new and horrible crime against secularism happening? That idea, rather than the practice of prayer, is the new introduction, so let's stop pretending that "separation" has always meant the same thing.

[FiveGoodMen]

37. Separation has always meant the same thing

It was never fully practiced.

It should have been.

Right now, the fundies are trying to increase their grip on the government and ALL GOOD AMERICANS need to fight back.

Yes, that's what I said: If you don't believe in the Establishment Clause, you're betraying the country.

[cbdo2007]

33. This isn't a black and white issue. I believe that forcing no-religion is more harmful to society

than sometimes allowing some religion.

Saying a prayer at graduation doesn't force religion on anyone, all it does is acknowledges religion as a general concept practiced by most of the people graduating.

[Fumesucker]

35. What I find really amusing about this is that Jesus the Christ specifically forbade public prayer..

Matthew 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites : for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.



I suppose you haven't seen that study which found atheists had a better knowledge of religion than theists?

http://www.pewforum.org/Other-Beliefs-and-Practices/U-S-Religious-Knowledge-Survey.aspx

[damntexdem]

36. Silly question.

Hey, shall we just do away with the Constitution as a whole?

[FiveGoodMen]

38. We're almost there.