The Divide

[AgainsttheCrown]

Last year’s Digg scandal should be an indicator that there are indeed “sock-puppets” influencing debate among us. Since none of us are part of the KKKonservative hydra attack machine, who here really knows exactly how they are trying to undermine us? My assumption is that they would attack us on multiple fronts and calcify any divisions already present. Unless there is a momentous shift of opinion in any one direction this divide could be disastrous for the country.

We should not pollute the waters with suspicion of each other. Eventually the infiltrators will reveal themselves or be rooted out. Our problem is the very real divisions between us. They should be addressed rather than any covert actions to widen them. I originally typed a long analysis about each side of the division, and if it will hurt or help a liberal electoral agenda. But we already know that there is a division between us. It has been perceived as a divide between staunch supporters of the President, and staunch defenders of liberal principles. So obviously what happened is that the President lost us (professional leftist, firebaggers, fauxgressives, f-ing r-tards, etc…) by straying from liberal principles and compromising on every issue that mattered to us. And we nobly placed principles before personality and lambasted the President accordingly. Or something like that.

It is partly why, but mostly how many have come to different sides of the debate, but I think I can speak for many (I know who the hell am I right?) frequent critics of Obama and say that we feel that the corporatists have led our country to the brink of collapse. And we find President Obama’s incremental (one could say progressive in the literal sense) policies are not enough to strengthen our foundation when it is collapsing so quickly. President Obama could be an outstanding leader if he were President in the 90’s. Instead he may end up being our Gorbachev (Thank you Dan Carlin)- implementing policies that would have averted this disaster 15 years ago.

After 8 years of disastrous Bush policies, many of us were empowered by his calls for fundamental change of our system. We placed great expectations upon him (and he upon himself) because of the looming disaster we faced. Then he won and the euphoria began to fade as he turned to governing. I’m not blind to political and legislative realities and I understand that compromise is necessary to achieve goals and that campaign promises are broken.

But he compromised to achieve moderate reforms to an irreparably broken system - by using the broken system. I believe that there are disastrous consequences ahead as a result of the promises he broke. Primarily because our country is facing a convergence of crises and the implementation of incremental policies to address this convergence. A good analogy is a ship sailing toward an iceberg- As the ship sails closer and closer to the iceberg, the adjustments to avoid it must become more and more bold- radical.

The reality of our situation is that we need bold and radical solutions to address problems that could lead to the collapse of this nation. We face historic inequality, environmental and ecological disaster, paralleled with a decline of our civil liberties and the rise of a proto-fascist movement.

This a perfect recipe for national collapse and the gridlock caused by a fundamentally corrupt media and political establishment), has prevented us from addressing those critical issues (Both parties, although the ReThugs are wholly incorporated in to the Corporate structure).

And our military industrial complex and global empire continue to spiral out of control – depriving us of much needed funds to remedy the issues. The situation is dire and only (what are now considered) radical policies can get us out of it. I don’t hate President Obama and I don’t hate his supporters. I just feel that his policies are inadequate to address the situation.

Which brings me to the toxicity of the online atmosphere. I consider myself fair-minded and thought that perhaps I was too harsh in my assessment of his administration and afraid that maybe I was in an echo chamber of unfair criticism. So I sought good communities with a predominance of viewpoints that were different different from my own. I found one I liked and respectfully engaged members and criticized the president. But the administrator determined that I was a lying firebagging troll and banned me after editing my comments and adding his commentary about how wrong and deluded I was!

I’ve been using the internet since I was 11 and using online forums since I was 13. I have never been banned and only warned once. After a few years of lurking I just started posting here and if anyone has noticed me I don’t think anyone would say that I’ve been rude or disrespectful- let alone a troll.

I’ll admit that I'm mad about the ban and down on the place, but I understand why that community and others like it have taken off. There is a very loud and active contingent at Kos and FDL that harshly criticizes the President and sometimes disgustingly and disrespectfully so. But the answer is not for us to Balkanize and retreat to online echo chambers. My fear is that it will happen here and it may have already started.

If the President is doing something positive I want to know about. If he’s doing something that undermines the left then I want to know about it. And I want to be able to discuss the issues vociferously but respectfully, with sane people (left leaning folk of varying degrees…I don’t argue with Konservatives online because it's futile). I will not spew venom towards militant Democrats (more are needed) or pragmatic progressives. I will save my disgust and derision for the Konservatives whose utopia will lead to a disastrous end for us all.

We’re on the same side and want the same goals, but this problem goes beyond seeking different or more pragmatic paths to achieve those goals. I believe that Liberals and Konservatives have a fundamentally different view of reality. As Steven Colbert says it has a liberal bias.
I don’t believe that our division is that massive, but there is a division between our assessments of the present reality. I think it boils down to the perceived severity of the crises we face. And until we find a consensus on how dire the situation is we will remain divided.

We need to begin to bridge the divide, so I have 3 questions to ask supporters of the President in order to begin a constructive dialog here: Are we on the precipice of collapse? If so can Obama’s progressive policies correct our course?

If not has President Obama’s agenda righted a ship that has blown slightly off course?

I just don’t believe that it is possible to be an enthusiastic supporter of the President and believe that we are about to collapse. But maybe I’m wrong…

[Zorra]

1. Very thoughtful post.

I posted a somewhat similar OP a while back, in an attempt to see if the gap between progressives and centrists could somehow be bridged. I was honestly trying to find out what centrists believed and if we could work together more effectively.

And just like your OP that I am right now responding to, I got very little response.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x957673

Peace

[AgainsttheCrown]

3. Thanks

For your depressing reply ;) At least I got to enjoy your post. I wish I could kick it because these are discussions that we need to have. Instead of hashing out crucial differences in what we believe we're wasting time debating what Cornel West said.

I guess we're in the same boat. We wanna know what they're thinking, but they won't tell us. That only leaves one to assume and that never ends well...

[FarLeftFist]

2. I believe we have been on a precipice of collapse since Reagan took office.

I believe Obama fully has this country's best interest at heart and tries governing from a Centrist point of view because he feels that he's not only president of the liberals, but conservatives and moderates as well. Because of this way of thinking he has made some very good decisions and some bad decisions. I think the fact that he got elected by overwhelmingly using liberal rhetoric shows this country's desire for more progressive policies. I believe that if he had fully embraced liberalism in his policy decisions we could avoid MANY crisis'.

Edit: There are plenty of great solutions out there for our problems. We should be consulting experts like i.e. Paul Krugman, Elizabeth Warren, Van Jones, and SO SO many others who are forward thinkers.

[AgainsttheCrown]

4. I see our economic structure as an upside down pyramid or top heavy building......

And I think that our great divergence of wealth really started under Reagan. It continued through Bush-Clinton-Bush and teetered at the end of Bush's second term. They took steps to support it, but not necessarily at the bottom.

The more top heavy it gets the harder the fall...

[mmonk]

5. I think we have been in a place where politics as usual wouldn't

work and two years were squandered. Now there is little if anything that can be done positively. Damage control is about the only thing left to be tried right now.

[slay]

6. What "progressive policies" by Obama?

the increased raids on medical marijuana facilities? his escalation of a war that is now longer than Vietnam? Obama is hardly a progressive in my book. I wish we had someone else in 2012 - we NEED someone else in 2012 - but it will be Obama - which while better than republicans, is not going to provide the REAL change we need. he's just not.

i see no way to bridge to bridge a divide where some think Obama is - good enough - and those like me who feel he has betrayed us in favor of the staus-quo and huge corporations.

enthusiastic supporters of Obama? really? i'd like to hear from them too. what am i missing that i'm supposed to feel "enthusiastic" about Obama and his 3 years of continuing many horrible Bush policies like warrentless wiretapping and the patriot act?

[AgainsttheCrown]

7. Progressive as in

Incremental?

Healthcare reform, the credit card bill of rights, student loan reform...

All those things we saw as flawed or not enough. In my opinion adequate 15-20 years ago.