Liberty Univ students: 'We were trained to disobey the law'

[Donnachaidh]

http://www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/2011/05/liberty-univ-students-we-were-trained-to-disobey-the-law.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+GoodAsYou+%28Good+As+You%29&utm_content=FaceBook

Sarah Posner does it again. An intensely interesting investigative report into Liberty University, their "God's law" teachings, and how much Mat Staver and company knew about Lisa Miller's flouting of the law.

No ore words more from us. Here's a snip and link to full piece (READ IT!):

Students at Liberty Law School tell that in the required Foundations of Law class in the fall of 2008, taught by Miller’s attorneys Mat Staver and Rena Lindevaldsen, they were Logo V2-1repeatedly instructed that when faced with a conflict between “God’s law” and “man’s law,” they should resolve that conflict through “civil disobedience.” One student said, “the idea was when you are confronted with a particular situation, for instance, if you have a court order against you that is in violation of what you see as God’s law, essentially... civil disobedience was the answer.”

This student and two others, who all requested anonymity for fear of reprisal by Staver (who is also the law school’s dean), recounted the classroom discussion of civil disobedience, as well as efforts to draw comparisons between choosing “God’s law” over “man’s law” to the American revolution and Martin Luther King Jr.’s Letter from a Birmingham Jail. According to one student, in the Foundations course both Staver and Lindevaldsen “espoused the opinion that in situations where God’s law is in direct contradiction to man’s law, we have an obligation to disobey it.”

More at the link --

[joeybee12]

1. When God directly gives each and every one of them a copy of his laws, instead

of them relying on a 2,000 year old piece of fiction that was written by semi-literate sheep herders, then they might have a point.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

5. What a concise and accurate description.

One thing that sets my teeth on full grind mode is when people say they will pray for me.

Last week, I ran into some of the 21ers, those predicting rapture this saturday. They asked for a donation (? HUH? ? ?) AND they promised to pray for my soul and salvation.
There were several of them, and lots of pedestrians outside the courthouse. I stopped, listened to them for a bit, and in my full voice I said, "I'm agnostic, I don't believe in your fairy tale god, and find the whole idea of prayer to be wasteful, offensive, and ridiculous."

By the time I was done, several spectators were reacting with smiles, one thumb up, and one person applauding. I may have also called them irrational or something along those lines.

[GodlessBiker]

2. Civil disobedience has a rich history, just own up to being disbarred. Even though ...

... the secular heathens took away your license to practice law, you still have god's law on your side. Take solace in that and good luck.

[ret5hd]

3. just from what's in the snip above, i have no problems.

no problems at all with civil disobedience. But the thing about civil disobedience (as i understand it) is that it requires you to stand up and say "yeah, i'm breaking the law, i know i'm breaking the law, and i am willing to suffer the consequences to give this issue a public airing so i can get the law changed.

what i see these people doing though is breaking the law and truying to hide it just as any common criminal would try to hide it.

[Matariki]

4. I agree with you. I don't see any outrage in civil disobedience

against laws a person fells are wrong.

I don't have to agree with the person's position to respect their right to do that.

[Bluenorthwest]

9. Do you consider the other side's attorney having differnent

standards than your own to be civil disobedience? So if they lie about evidence because of God's law, or frame a gay person, is that 'civil disobedience'? Secret, illegal actions done to give yourself the advantage are 'civil disobedience'?

[Matariki]

19. I don't consider lying in court or framing people to be an act of Civil Disobedience.

If that's what they are talking about, then I don't agree with it. Is that what they are saying?

[MedicalAdmin]

21. No - it's perjury.

And should have a nice long jail sentance attached to it.

[gratuitous]

11. Also, as officers of the court

They have a duty to see to the proper and efficient administration of the law, not just the ones they like. Today.

[LiberalEsto]

6. I better not catch them eating shrimp or weaing

clothing made with a cotton-polyester fabric, in that case.

[patrice]

7. I'm confused. If God is all powerful how could anything not be his law?

So the real question is what is one's impetus is for disobeying whatever. How do you know the valence, positive or negative, of that motive force?

[brooklynite]

8. So, when Civil law says to respect Gay's civil rights, and God's law says to stone them, you.....

[no_hypocrisy]

10. However, if you read a link to another story at the bottom of the link,

you'll see that law students failed an exam when they interpreted the law as it currently exists, not how they would like it to be. To be an effective and precise advocate, you have to first acknowledge either a statute or interpretation of that statute or case law, and then prepare a way to challenge it. You can't unilaterally invalidate existing law as only a court of law can do that.

http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/politics/4585/exclusive%3A_liberty_law_exam_question_on_notorious_kidnapping_case_pressured_students_to_choose_%E2%80%9Cgod%E2%80%99s_law%E2%80%9D_over_%E2%80%9Cman%E2%80%99s%E2%80%9D/

[Lars39]

12. The Law School taught this?

They need their accreditation yanked.

[ret5hd]

13. i don't think they are.

[Lars39]

15. After googling a bit, it appears that they accredited.

Astounding.

[dmr]

20. The article says they were accredited last year. It ought to be yanked. n/t

[Octafish]

14. Jerry Falwell had 3.5 million reasons to ''Thank Moon!''

Falwell's Deal with the Devil -- Rev MOON

[The Backlash Cometh]

16. I knew it. You knew it. We all knew they had their own agenda.

It was probably just the beginning.

[DavidDvorkin]

17. Back when MLK Jr. said that it was moral to disobey an immoral law

the right wing went crazy attacking him.

Now he's an examplar for them?

[Initech]

18. I've always wondered if the fundies really do live on another plane of existence.