So the maid was told to clean a room that was

[malaise]

supposedly unoccupied. Was this a set up?


Serious question - why is he in solitary confinement?

[QED]

1. He's probably in solitary so he won't have to interact with the

general jail population. Was Bernie Madoff in solitary? Don't want to mix the classes.

[sharp_stick]

24. No, you don't put

someone accused of rape into general population unless you want to find a corpse on the next walkthrough.

[Hannah Bell]

76. uh, wrong.

[sharp_stick]

77. Nuh uh, am not.... you are.

I could do this all day. It's a lot more fun than actually posting anything with content.

[Hannah Bell]

85. the story about inmates attacking others is about *child* rapists, not rapists.

[pnwmom]

2. How would they know he would come out of his room and attack her?

[Fumesucker]

4. I kind of gather he has a history of this sort of thing..

The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

[aquart]

20. But the VIP code protects perpetrators as long as they toe all the other lines.

If they don't, like Spitzer, the protection goes away and exposure "happens."

So we have the possibility that he is a rapist, just not this time. Or they knew he could not resist and set this up somehow, knowing his schedule and pressure points, or he did it, as usual, and the apparatus to protect him simply sat on its hands. Or...who knows.

Rape is common. Exposure of a man at his level? Damned strange.

The maid is, I heard, a single mother? She isn't just an easy target for rape. She could also be an easy target for bribery and conspiracy.

It could be as simple as it looks. Or not.

[pnwmom]

26. Why did DSK's people first try the alibi strategy then?

Why didn't they go straight to the "it was consensual" defense? At first they pretended it couldn't have happened at all -- then they appear to have acknowledged that something happened, but it was consensual. This doesn't make sense . . . if DSK was really innocent.

[Fumesucker]

32. He isn't innocent in this scenario either.

My guess is that he and his people were shocked that the assault/rape was even reported, much less that he was arrested.

[pnwmom]

34. He had probably gotten too complacent from decades of getting

away with this in France and elsewhere - you're right, that makes sense.

[blondeatlast]

50. That makes a lot of sense. nt

[PatSeg]

72. Being his alleged victim was an immigrant,

he probably assumed she wouldn't report the assault. It is very possible that is how he has chosen victims in the past, go for a frightened, lower class woman who won't file charges. Of course, that is assuming he thinks at all.

[aquart]

49. I ain't saying he was innocent.

He can be BOTH set up and guilty. It doesn't have to be either/or.

[Matariki]

56. In which case, who cares?

[Eddie Haskell]

73. It matters

because ... a women makes an accusation ... then goes into seclusion ... the man is held w/o bail in a foreign country ... he's held in solitary confinement ... his reputation is ruined by a lynch-mob press ... he’s asked to resign his position ... and regardless of what you think you know, none of the accusations have been proven.

I assume we agree on the presumption of innocence and the right to a fair trial regardless of the crime. These charges rest on the basis of a single victim, therefore it is incumbent upon the courts to treat this case with the utmost of care. This man is not a terrorist. He poses no threat to the general public. He may be a devil, but he is not The Devil. From a Man for all Seasons:

William Roper: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!
Sir Thomas More: Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?
William Roper: Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!
Sir Thomas More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!

It matters for our own safety's sake!

[Yo_Mama]

98. Forcible rape charges do constitute a threat to the general public

That portion of the general public that has vaginas, that is. I don't know how much more "general public" you can get than members of the housekeeping staff.

It's remarkable how lightly so many regard this. He is charged with rather serious, sustained and forcible sexual assault. DNA evidence is being processed - this is not just a "he said, she said" type of thing.

Yes, he deserves a fair trial, this is just an accusation, and that can't happen until the evidence is processed, for one thing.

I am sure he will eventually get bail. The guy was arrested on a plane that was due to fly out of the country. If he ever gets out of the country, he won't be extradited back.

[coalition_unwilling]

129. Now that OBL has been extra-judicially executed, I say we

dispense with such niceties as 'presumption of innocence,' and just sic SEAL Team 6 on his ass.

Some people just need killin'

:sarcasm:

[pnwmom]

150. They got him off the plane, as he was about to depart to a country,

France, with whom we have no extradition treaty -- and who has been harboring a convicted child rapist, Roman Polanki, for decades.

Can you blame the judge and prosecutors for proceeding cautiously? Supposedly there are negotiations still underway to assure, if he's let out on bail, that he remains in the country.

[aquart]

165. They don't get the relation to our safety at all.

A man with ten thousand other ways to get his dick diddled destroyed himself and his life's work instead. Now, he wouldn't be the first. But the ones we know about, like Spitzer, Clinton,...well, aside from their sex being consentual, we KNOW there was conspiracy involved.

Why would it matter who was out to get him if they got him? After all, he's a rapist very like Roman Polanski considering the anal accusation.

If he did it without any conspiracy to ruin him whatsoever, I'm still curious as to why, at that moment, he was utterly without self control. A blanket "hubris" MAY be the answer, but it's a kind of sloppy one size fits all and just too lazy a thought process for me.

If ANY conspiracy was involved, that's a frontal assault on all our freedoms. Bill Clinton was an elected president with a record so squeaky clean that ALL they could get him on was nine blow jobs from an intern. Spitzer...all they had was him using his own money to hire prostitutes. Spitzer was speaking out against the very wealthy Thieves of Wall Street.

So, it seems was this guy.

We already know how the Thieves of Wall Street work their magic. Why would a frame be beyond them? They know he's vulnerable on sex. But PAID consensual sex ain't rape. So why did he switch from one to the other?

A single mother working as a maid while living in HIV housing is a very vulnerable woman. Please tell me why she didn't scream "I'M HIV POSITIVE!" at him as soon as he touched her? (Whether it was true or not.)

[sabrina 1]

154. This is just speculation. His lawyers have not

said what the defense will be, only that it will not be consistent with what is charged. That seems logical.

[yardwork]

44. Your subject line says it all.

We don't know if he's guilty or not, but we do know that no apparatus to protect him was mobilized, and we know that said apparatus is usually working to protect powerful men. That alone is very interesting.

[pnwmom]

23. So they would know that no woman would be safe around him?

What would that tell us?

[Fumesucker]

29. Exactly..

[Yo_Mama]

161. Guilty as charged?

All conspiracy theories have to hang on the idea that the maid seduced him and then claimed rape - because she was paid to do so.

But if there is as much physical evidence as has been claimed, that doesn't seem even remotely likely. The "I thought my $3,000 room came with rough oral sex" defense won't fly if they are both marked up.

[cali]

3. he's in solitary because mixing with the gp on Rikers presents to great a danger to him.

And why do you think it's a set up?

[malaise]

6. I asked a question

Truthfully the IMF has been raping developing countries for so long that I'm enjoying watching one of the top dogs frighten the rest of the political elite and diplomats into controlling their depraved urges for a few weeks. More than a few rapists and pedophiles have been getting away with a lot of shit in developing countries.

[izquierdista]

21. What you fail to realize...

Is that the "perp" has been trying to shake the IMF out of its rape developing countries pattern. Now THERE is a motive for a possible setup. It appears to me as if it is the top dogs that are doing frightening, to show what happens to one who has sympathies with the proles.

It could be as simple as it looks. Or not.

[pnwmom]

33. And what about the other women who says he did the same to them?

One of whom being the daughter of a close ally of his? Are they all a part of this "set-up"?

[Eddie Haskell]

75. Circumstantial evidence

that the man is a flirt ... burn him.

[Goblinmonger]

105. "Flirt"? Interesting word choice.

And you can convict someone on circumstantial evidence. I love how people use that term to make it seem like it means "bad" evidence.

[blondeatlast]

116. "FLIRT"? Ah, no, he admits to being way more than a flirt.

Even your namesake wouldn't have tried that shit for a defense of the dirty old fart.

[pnwmom]

151. You're not serious, are you? Banon alleges an actual rape attempt.

She says she had to fight him off. And at least two other women describe similar events.

[seabeyond]

168. ya, that, a giggle. what allows the man to assault women is this attitude it is mere flirting

and hey, lets call assault on women merely groping like with arnie.

[Bluzmann57]

5. "Was this a setup"?

I don't know and neither does anyone else in here. If he is guilty, he should go to prison like any other rapist. And he is in solitary so he doesn't get attacked by any other inmates.

[malaise]

7. I agree n/t

[Arkansas Granny]

13. I agree, also.

[AndiMer]

8. It was rape

Plain & simple. No excuses.

[Fumesucker]

9. I believe it was rape too, he has a history of similar incidents apparently.

But I'm not totally closed to speculation that he was set up in some way, the very fact he has a history makes that a vulnerability and he has made some very powerful enemies.

[AndiMer]

16. "Set up"?

So they forced him to force himself on the maid? Huh???

[Fumesucker]

17. Rather like a sting, you put someone in a situation where you know they may well act badly..

The idea of a sting is that you provide an opportunity to the suspect to engage in illegal behavior, it's not force but rather temptation.

I don't think it's particularly likely in this case but I wouldn't totally rule it out either.

[Matariki]

95. What - like every time he's alone with a woman?

Every time he goes to a hotel and a woman comes in to make up his room?

Some set up.

[leftynyc]

12. I remember people here

saying the same about the Duke boys. I'm content to wait and see what shakes out.

[Fumesucker]

18. I think he did it but I also remember the Duke case so I'm retaining a bit of skepticism..

[WinkyDink]

27. "The Duke case" was the exception.

I remember Kobe Bryant, Roman Polanski, and Mike Tyson.

[Fumesucker]

35. The DU "hang 'em high" brigade got smoked big time on the Duke case..

The fact is that some small percentage of rape accusations are indeed false, this guy has a history so I suspect he's guilty but I'm not absolutely convinced at this time, I'm going to wait and see how this shakes out before I call for his castration without anesthesia.

[WinkyDink]

37. Yes, your hyperbole is better than others'.

[coalition_unwilling]

131. Remember Al Sharpton and Tawana Brawley? - n/t

[Hannah Bell]

169. hardly.

[pnwmom]

28. One major difference between this case and the Duke students, of course,

is that none of those students had a history of attempted rape, while DSK has at least two or three other women saying he tried to force himself on them. One of those woman was the daughter of a close ally of his, who didn't press charges because her mother convinced her not to. She seems awfully credible to me.

[Fumesucker]

36. An entirely hypothetical question:

If this was really a setup/sting (I don't think it is) and the woman went in to his room as knowing bait, is it really rape in this particular incidence?

Not trying to trick you or anything, honestly interested in your opinion.

[pnwmom]

40. You mean, if she went into his room as "knowing bait"

and resisted his actions and told him no, was it still attempted rape and forcible assault, etc.?

Yes. She didn't cause him to attack her merely by her presence in the room -- no matter what he might think.

(Assuming, of course, that he did attack her.)

[blondeatlast]

51. If she knew, I suppose so. But I also could see this scenario

being a sting even WITHOUT her cooperation or knowledge simply because he is known to have done it before. And even if it was a sting--there's no excuse for his behavior, he took the bait hook, line, and sinker. Too bad, so sad.

Personally, I think the guy is just a dirty old man who got away with it before but I don't discount SOME degree of set-up entirely.

[pnwmom]

152. Right. Even if it was "entrapment" -- which I seriously doubt

at this point - if he pounced, he pounced.

[Maru Kitteh]

54. Still blaming the victim. If a gay Jewish black person walks into a KKK rally and is attacked

their attacker is still just as guilty of assault. While many would question the wisdom of such an act, nobody would doubt the guilt of the attackers and yet for women we make different rules. Somehow, it's STILL acceptable to blame women, blame conspiracies, blame ANYTHING but the men who rape.

[MicaelS]

96. Of course it's rape...

The man didn't HAVE to stick his penis, or try to stick his penis, into the woman's body.

How is this case any different from a police decoy acting drunk and flashing a bunch of cash or gold, and then someone tries to rob him / her? Does that somehow NOT make it robbery?

Just because something or someone is set up as bait, doesn't mean a person has to try and steal, or commit assault.

[leftynyc]

65. I have no idea who

is credible and who isn't in this - I don't know any of the players personally. It looks like he's a pig and a rapist but it looked like the Duke boys were also.

You know what I don't understand? I saw that France was quite vocally unhappy with the "perp walk" he was subject to but today they are plastering the woman's picture and name all over the papers. WTF is up with that?

[blondeatlast]

94. Standard Operating Hypocrisy. the French are no less guilty than are we. nt

[pnwmom]

146. "WTF is up with that?" Apparently that's almost standard operating procedure

in France. In situations like this, the sympathy tends to go toward the "virile" man.

But with regard to the Duke case, there was nothing in any of those boys' background to suggest that they would be rapists - but plenty in this man's. The reason I think Banon is credible is because her mother is a close political associate and was a friend of DSK's -- and talked her daughter out of pressing charges. Now she says she regrets that.

[leftynyc]

164. Looks bad, no doubt

He's a sleaze whether he did this or not (with a very tolerant wife, apparently). Like I said before, I'm going to wait and see what kind of evidence they have.

I think France has their sympathy completely backwards but whatever. I saw on the news that close to 60% of their population believes he was set up - that's a big number.

[Eddie Haskell]

78. Were the Duke's given bail?

Were they held in solitary? Until he's proven guilty, he deserves to recieve equal treatment under the law.

[leftynyc]

84. Don't remember and don't care

This guy had to be pulled off an airplane to make sure he didn't flee. Bail isn't punishment, it's to make sure the person shows up for trial. This person obviously has the means to disappear.

People accused of rape are often put in solitary (as are people on suicide watch). In Rikers, it's for their own protection. Believe me when I say he wouldn't be safe in the general population.

[jberryhill]

99. Flight risk, sorry

The law is being applied equally.

This is a person who was apprehended while leaving the country, is a resident of a country with whom we do not have an extradition agreement, and has no motivation to return to this country for trial.

None of those factors were present in the Duke case.

[pnwmom]

149. He's a flight risk, and we have no extradition treaty with France.

Which is why Roman Polanksi, who fed a 13 year old girl downers and raped her, was able to flee to France and never return. (He was convicted and sentenced in abstentia, and he's still regarded as a hero in France, where his crime was considered to be unimportant.)

OTOH, I've read speculation that some sort of bail arrangements will be worked out in this case.

[EFerrari]

15. Trying to understand what happened is not making excuses. n/t

[lunatica]

10. Very good question

Most people never see the maids.

[leftynyc]

11. He's on a suicide watch

I don't know for sure but I think solitary would be the safest place for someone who may try and kill him/herself. As for the timing of her cleaning the room - maybe he was past the check out time she went in? That part may be perfectly innocent.

[laundry_queen]

66. I used to work in housekeeping

we OFTEN went into rooms that weren't yet vacated. Mostly by accident. Sometimes we knew it wasn't check out time yet, and it wasn't marked as a check out on a sheet, but if it appeared to be an empty room, we'd knock. If there was no answer we'd go in (this usually only happened if we were finished cleaning all the confirmed check outs, otherwise we sat around twiddling thumbs until more check outs happened and then had to work late..). Sometimes there was still someone there. This used to happen at least once a shift. Very common.

[seabeyond]

14. like he wants to be amongst the population. and the population would probably

not embrace him. so i would say solitary is as much for him as suicide watch would be

[FSogol]

19. Unrec. Why do people want to defend this clown? n/t

[blindpig]

30. It is a false dichotomy

The French socialist party is associated with the left but in truth is not much more 'left' than the Democratic party these days. It collaborates with capitalists freely. How else could one of their hot shots be head of that most capitalist of institutions, the IMF?

[malaise]

38. You are 100% correct

:fistbump:

[Renew Deal]

43. The Democratic Party is a capitalist party.

Where did you get the idea it's not?

[Jackpine Radical]

53. Where did she say it's not?

She's just saying that the French "Socialists" are also on pretty cozy terms with the Capitalist Pigs.

Edited to correct gender reference

[blindpig]

58. Ya better edit that gender again.

:D

[Jackpine Radical]

67. I got confused & thought I was replying to Malaise.

D'Oh.

[Ohio Joe]

22. Set up? No

There is zero to indicate this is a set up and I am really disturbed by the number of people that are looking for any excuse for this POS.

[WinkyDink]

25. A set-up? You mean she spat out his semen because SHE SET THE POOR NAIF UP???

Once upon a time........

This guy needs the name of Kobe Bryant's jewelller.

[pnwmom]

31. Why? He was leaving the IMF, so it wouldn't be in connection with that.

And he wasn't yet a candidate for President -- he would have had to get through a primary election first. If it was Sarkozy's people, as some speculate, why wouldn't they have waited till DSK had actually won the primary?

It seems extremely far-fetched.

[yardwork]

45. Not according to many French people I know. He was a likely shoe-in as president.

This was the Socialist Party's best chance to regain the presidency. Now that opportunity is gone, and it's entirely possible that a Sarah Palin type will be elected.

[BobbyBoring]

69. You mean Marine Le Pen?

I see her finger prints all over this!

[yardwork]

110. Yep.

[ecstatic]

39. It doesn't work like that. The maid knocks and comes in

if you don't answer or don't have the Do not disturb sign on the door.

[pipi_k]

41. I understand what you're saying here, I think...

about it being a set-up.

Like someone else said, sort of like a sting operation where the cops leave a bicycle out on the sidewalk and wait for a thief to come by and steal it.

Temptation. It's likely not going to work on people who don't have a propensity for thievery.

So yeah, I can see where it might seem like sending a maid in to clean a room that's supposed to be empty might look like a "set up". But then I have to take that further and wonder...if it really was a set up, why wouldn't the people behind it have cameras or recording equipment set up to catch actual proof?

Like the Marion Barry sting.

Then there wouldn't be any of this speculation.

So I'm thinking that it probably was a mistake or misunderstanding that had the maid going into that room to clean it at that time.

[Renew Deal]

42. How do you know she was "told to clean that room?"

If there isn't a privacy thing on the door, then the maid will try to clean the room. Why wasn't the door locked? Did DSK setup the maid?

Either way, what do you do if a maid walks in your hotel room? Ask/Tell her to leave or rape her?

[malaise]

70. Heard it on M$NBComcast

this morning

[riverwalker]

46. problem with the "set up" scenario

the fact that he attempted anal penetration and failed, attempted oral and failed, attempted vaginal penetration and failed, means she fought like HELL.

[pipi_k]

47. I think that even a police sting

involving female undercover agents sent out as hookers to pick up "johns" would have the same end result, though...

They're sent out to set these guys up, but the backups always show up in time. If, for some reason, they didn't show up, I don't think the female cops would go through with the transaction or allow themselves to be raped. They would fight like hell.

So fighting like hell wouldn't necessarily mean that it couldn't have been a sting (or "setup"). I might be wrong, but it would seem to me that the whole problem with it being a setup scenario is that there were no witnesses. I mean if they really wanted this guy's ass. Get the proof and he'd be dead meat.

[Arctic Dave]

48. Could have been.

Let's see, we have aguy who wants to stop the way they IMF does business. He was also a front runner for the Presidential election in France. Their are two reasons for people not to like him.
How to bring him down? Well, we know he has a history of bad judgement so setting him up should be fairly easy. People will accused before fact are out and the press will go wild for a sex scandal.
The accuser seems to have an unfortunate motive to help out too. Single mother suffering from HIV.

OF course this is all just stuff I made up on the fly but it does sound like the premise for a detective novel. I'm sure this will be a mini episode on one of the "ripped from the headlines" TV shows.

[blondeatlast]

52. HIV? Do you have a source for that? nt

[Union Scribe]

55. Circumstantial, but here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4855079

[blondeatlast]

59. The NY Post? Even FAUX News has more cred in my POV. nt

[Union Scribe]

61. Keep in mind I'm just the messenger.

Saw it in LBN then happened upon this subthread. I don't necessarily buy anything.

[blondeatlast]

64. Understood. No harm, no foul. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

60. Ah let the smearing of the victim continue

[Eddie Haskell]

81. The victim's rights don't abridge those of the defendant.

This country's laws are there to protect us all ... guilty or not.

[blondeatlast]

87. Seems to me that publicizing this "fact", true or night,

violates both the accuser and the accused rights.

It sure as hell is smearing to the non-charged.

[nadinbrzezinski]

133. Yes but smearing the victim, especially in rape cases, is an

old well respected tradition. It has a legal name, you might want to look it up. She has rights too... not just the defendant.

[Arctic Dave]

121. I have been informed that the media once again is talking out their ass.

I guess the tabloid of this wasn't enough and they had to make shit up I guess.

[Mass]

71. The HIV thing was denied by her lawyer this morning.

Another sign that, on this story, the media are ready to report even when they dont know.

[blondeatlast]

88. Nothing surprising from the lazy, corrupt press. nt

[Goblinmonger]

106. Or he could just be a fucking rapist

who happens to want to stop the way IMF does business and be a front runner for President. People in powerful positions are shitbags, too, you know.

[Arctic Dave]

119. Could be, but neither you or I were there.

[Nye Bevan]

57. If you've never accidentally encountered a hotel maid

then you haven't stayed in many hotels.

The trick is, to

1. Say "sorry could you come back later", NOT

2. Chase her down the hallway, grab her, and forcibly insert your penis in her mouth.

Just one of those little etiquette tips.

[lapislzi]

74. +1

I've been a hotel chambermaid. You go where you're sent. Presumably, you've been told by your supervisor that the room is unoccupied. You knock lightly on the door. If no answer, and it's near or past the check-out time, you let yourself in. I've walked in on people who were in the shower or asleep (and one memorable occasion...oh, never mind. Don't know which of us was the more embarrassed). Then you apologize, quietly back out, and close the door.

I've also had over-eager (or more likely, overworked) maids knock on my door at 9:00 in the morning as I'm packing up my stuff for the 11:00 check out. I politely asked them to come back later.

There is nothing odd or unusual about this, except the part about the sexual assault. And even that, sadly, is not terribly uncommon. I've had my share of suggestive remarks and butt pinches by hotel guests, and I'm no raving beauty.

Servants are looked upon by the powerful as the lowest of the low, and always have been.

[Goblinmonger]

107. Let me write that down

apparently by the tone of a lot of posts on this issue, this is something easily forgotten and is excusable.

[malaise]

125. My first job in life was in the airline industry

and given my profession I stay in lots of hotels for conferences.
I have always used the Do Not Disturb option.
I suspect I have stayed in more hotel rooms than the average person.

[Nye Bevan]

143. Very easy to forget the "Do Not Disturb".

Most of my unexpected encounters with maids have come when I order room service and take down the "Do Not Disturb" so the room service person will knock on my door with the food. Sometimes I forget to put it back up after the food comes, and sometimes the maid comes while I am waiting for the food.

But on none of these occasions did I breach the unwritten rule about not sexually attacking the maid.

[steve2470]

134. ok, I shouldn't laugh but that was funny nt

[woo me with science]

62. self delete nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. Serious answer

solitary is kind of standard in these cases.

1.- You put a charged rapist in general population, they tend to have accidents. These niceties about being already convicted or not really don't matter. This goes doubly so for child molesters... so for their safety...

2.- When you have an ultra powerful person in jail, it is a shock to their system... so yes, at times they try things. Not often, mind you, but I'd hate to be the watch commander when VIP managed to kill themselves.

So between one and two...

Madoff was also in Solitary for a little while, and later on, when it was safe... he was allowed into the general population.

As to the set up... maids going into supposedly empty rooms to clean up that are not happens a lot more often. So let's stop this honey trap et al shit, shall we? Let the legal system do what it needs to do. Next step, GRAND JURY which has to turn the police complaint into a formal indictment. That is supposed to happen by friday iirc.

(For some reason I thought it was thursday)

[Nye Bevan]

68. The reason he's in jail at all, and not out on bail,

is that the French are so dickish about extraditing criminals back to the US.

[Eddie Haskell]

83. Then put a collar on him.

[blondeatlast]

89. Why treat him any different than any other accused rapist, especially one

who has ample opportunity to flee, much more so than your everyday rapist, murderer, or gangbanger?

why single him out for preferential treatment?

[mwooldri]

90. The judge said "flight risk".

As for the French being "dickish" about extraditing people back to the USA... it's to do with the laws in France. France, and a number of other countries, will not allow the extradition of their citizens to another country on the basis that they claim worldwide jurisdiction over their citizens. Another barrier is whether there is a death penalty at issue: EU countries can't extradite suspects to the USA unless they get assurances that the death penalty will not be applied.

I disagree with the judge for the reason but I believe he is in the right place as a result of the judges' reason. If us "commoners" were to be accused of what DSK did, then we'd most likely be thrown into jail too, with not much prospect of getting bail. If he posted a huge bail amount, agreed to "house arrest" or something like that, then I'm sure we'd hear howls of protest from some people stating that he is being given preferential treatment because he's rich, and a very prominent international figure.

[blondeatlast]

93. My take as well. The fact that such a seemingly powerful man is

being treated as a common criminal is both laudable (IMHO) and fascinating.

[Hannah Bell]

79. another question: i had the impression (& have personally seen) that hotel

cleaners often clean in pairs.

i've read that this is a precaution against theft, attack, etc.

[Nye Bevan]

103. I've stayed in many hotels, from Econo Lodge to Four Seasons

and I have *never* once seen "cleaners working in pairs".

[Hannah Bell]

113. well, i guess that settles it, then. nye has never seen hotel/motel housekeeping work in pairs

or teams.

therefore it doesn't exist.


lol.

also, i wondered about what kind of cleaning one does in pantyhouse.

not the most comfortable way to clean to my way of thinking.

[Nye Bevan]

118. Hannah. I know you've invested in a lot of posts defending the perverted old groper

but I think it's time to give it up. Seriously.

[leftstreet]

120. What a strange thing to say

This poster's known for extensive research here

Do you have some links to statements "defending" DSK?

[Nye Bevan]

139. Yes. Yes, I do.

There's the "alibi":

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1116248&mesg_id=1116248

There's the "he's so rich, he could hire a hooker, so why would he rape anyone" theory:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1116248&mesg_id=1116761

The "he *did* hire a hooker, was waiting for her, and mistook the maid for said hooker" theory:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1116248&mesg_id=1118009

The "varying time line casts doubt on the story" theory:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1116248&mesg_id=1116706

The "if he was guilty, he never would have called the hotel about his lost cellphone" gambit:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1116248&mesg_id=1116739

The "no way would he have had time to commit the crime" thesis:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1116248&mesg_id=1116376

The "Sarkozy's people tweeted it before the arrest happened" theory:

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1117347&mesg_id=1117347

"I wonder who he pissed off?":

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1117937&mesg_id=1117977

and finally: "Dirty tricks and political intrigues":

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1117688&mesg_id=1117862

OK, so not that many.

[leftstreet]

145. Those are questions and speculations, not a defense

You'll find many of the same reports and editorials currently in the world press

:shrug:

You must be a big fan of this poster, to keep track like that...

[Hannah Bell]

147. also part of the "war on libya" fan club.

[Nye Bevan]

163. It's actually a really great fan club.

You get a cool membership card and a really nice button. And there's even a secret handshake.

[blondeatlast]

136. Well, I kind of doubt CIA operatives wear pantyhose--and I wouldn't be

surprised that an a major luxury hotel in Manhattan would require pantyhose.

Why is Ben Stein defending M. DSK right along with you, Hannah?

[pipi_k]

123. Sometimes that's true...

sometimes not.

My daughter did that sort of thing years ago. She worked alone.

I wasn't happy about it.

Fortunately she didn't really like the job and went on to something else.

[pnwmom]

153. Some do, some don't. And I've stayed in plenty of hotels. n/t

[Lil Missy]

80. It was a setup - for the maid. He's in solitary for his own protection.

[mwooldri]

82. Apparently DSK is on suicide watch.

This is more about the maid stating that's she "is scared but will testify" more than about DSK but it's interesting to note he was mentioned as being on suicide watch.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13443085

[blondeatlast]

86. Supposedly unoccupied? My understanding is that there was a TWO night booking.

Unless he checked out the day he checked in, how can it be claimed the room wasn't occupied? :shrug:

[Mass]

91. I dont know how long the booking was and when he arrived,

but he was supposed to meet Angela Merkel on Sunday, so he was probably planning to leave on the flight he was arrested. He apparently checked in on Friday.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Timeline-of-events-in-Strauss-Kahn-case/Article1-698500.aspx

[blondeatlast]

92. Edited: On second thought, given the timeline, it could have been "unoccupied"

but still booked, of course; that's what the handy dandy deadbolt and doorhanger are for.

Which begs the question--why didn't he use the deadbolt?

[jberryhill]

101. People leave their rooms during the day, when cleaning is done

I spend at least a month out of the year in hotels.

Depending on my schedule, I'm usually not in the room during the day, but I have frequently been walked-in on by cleaning staff.

If you don't put the DND hanger on the door, they'll knock and walk in. They have a lot to do on their shift, and they don't spend it fretting about whether there is someone in the room.

[blondeatlast]

108. I corrected my post below; I just wasn't thinking. nt

[suffragette]

104. Looks like a one night booking to me

The NY Post article that people cited made that a bit confusing.

Posted here about that:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1119835&mesg_id=1126184

[Matariki]

97. Have you ever stayed at a hotel?

Housekeeping enter rooms every day to clean up and make beds. They don't only do it after people check out.

[malaise]

102. More times than you'd believe

They rarely stay if you're in the room.

[Matariki]

109. That's not always true.

I've been in hotel rooms while the beds were being made up. I've never stayed in a $3000 a night room - I imagine the staff would think they were safe.

Guess I'm just saying that all this conspiracy stuff seems like a stretch. Certainly there is no sort of evidence of conpiracy just because housekeeping staff was sent in to clean a room.

[blondeatlast]

115. I agree. I also realized my brain fart upthread about the "unoccupied" room. nt

[JVS]

158. That can vary with the size of the room/suite.

If the room is a small room like a motel and they don't think you'll be sticking around there long, they'll wait. If the room is a suite and you're in the living room section of the place doing something, they might come in and fix up the bedroom.

[blondeatlast]

114. I corrected before you posted--just had a brain fart. nt

[librechik]

100. I imagine he must be pretty depressed. Maybe they put him on the watch

becasue they were afraid for his safety? I imagine his entire worldview is crumbling all around him.

[Liberal_in_LA]

111. good questions. Why the unrecs?

[n2doc]

112. I've been in hotel rooms when the maid has barged in

Was in the shower, had tv on, couldn't hear them knock. They quickly left when they heard me, and I never felt the impulse to chase them around and attack them.

Unless somehow he can show that the maid pretended to be a call girl, he's toast. Even then he's toast.

[Travelman]

117. Multi-point answers

1.) There is a bit of an automatic presumption in hotels that hotel rooms are empty during the middle of the day. Most people who are staying in a hotel go out during the daytime.

2.) Most hotels have a chek-out time of about 11:00. My understanding is that the attack happened about 12:30. Assuming that there was reason to believe that he was checking out that day, it was a fair assumption on her part that he had probably alraedy left.

3.) Every news report that I've seen on this has said that she followed the correct procedure for entering a room: knock, announce "housekeeping," open the door partially, again announce "housekeeping," and if there is no response, then enter the room. Given that this was the presidential suite, it's entirely likely that she could enter the "living room" part of the suite and never hear the shower running in the "bedroom" area. Ergo, she slmost certainly had every reason to believe when she walked through that door that the room was unoccupied.

4.) As to "setup," that's such an incredible roll of the dice as to be insane. It would require some sort of foreknowledge that he would be in the room at that time, and that he would find her "attractive," and that he would actually act on that, and that she would report it, and that she wouldn't wind up bashing his skull in with a lamp or something, or he hers. All of that and there's no video? No audio? If you're going to set someone up, don't you want to get absolutely damning evidence? I sure would. Video, audio, a "convenient" witness to walk into the room, something totally irrefutable that would bag this guy without any possible presumption of innocence.


Now, as to solitary:

1.) At least according to the news reports, he said some things that caused the shrinks at Rikers to think that he might hurt himself. Obviously, we're not privy to that information, so we have to just take them at their word, or not.

2.) He also has sleep apnea and has been issued a CPAP. They are monitoring his breathing at night in case he stops breathing. I would have to think that monitoring that would be considerably easier in soliatary compared to general pop.

3.) A phenominally wealthy Frenchman is not going to make any friends any time soon at Riker's Island. He really does not want to be in general population with the rest of the unwashed masses, I'm quite certain.

4.) The last thing in the world that the City of New York wants is to have an extremely high-profile foreign national like this get shanked in their jail. The French are already spinning all sorts of conspiracy theories about this incident; if this guy got offed in jail, it would be an absolute mad scramble to see who can come up with the kookiest conspiracy theory to explain why the CIA had the guy whacked by the Moldavian mafia while supposedly in jail in at Riker's, when actually it was to cover up the illegal aliens from outer space who took him to Venus and used all sorts of nasal and anal probing on the guy, and all because they wanted to get rid of the head of the IMF and potential next president of France. As such, they're not going to take any chances on this guy wandering around general population with a target on his back.

[blondeatlast]

122. Really good analysis, IMHO. I have to mention the irony of M. DSK's sleep vs.

those of the maid and her friends, family, and neighbors.

I somehow think M. DSK got much more rest, even at RI.

[Travelman]

124. Probably so. Rather sad, that.

[malaise]

126. Thank you Travelman - nice post

:hi:

[Travelman]

128. Anytime.

Thanks for the compliment. :)

[pnwmom]

157. Logic, I love it! Best post here. Thanks! n/t

[LanternWaste]

127. Until convinced otherwise, I'll take the simplest explanation...

Until convinced otherwise, I'll take the simplest explanation; i.e., a man with a a history of inappropriate actions towards women sexually assaulted a female hotel employee.

That simplest of scenarios doesn't require a set up or a conspiracy or aliens beaming thought transmissions into our brains... it simply requires a vulgar man. :shrug:

Unfortunately, this very scenario happens hundreds of times daily.

[malaise]

130. You may well be correct

and yes it does happen hundreds of times a day.
What I know is that all those diplomats and international employees of all these multilateral and bilateral agencies won't be raping little girls and boys for a while or hitting on female and male employees.
I say bravo to the New York cops because the international political elite need a little reminder that this shit is illegal.

Was he set up - who knows but I don't care since they are all running scared this week and that is great news.

[CreekDog]

137. For someone apparently concerned he's been wrongly accused, you're sure quick to accuse her

of being part of a setup.

just saying. :eyes:

[malaise]

138. I haven't accused her of anything

I asked a question

[CreekDog]

140. so you think the conspiracy is as likely as his guilt?

which would be interesting considering there's evidence of one and not the other.

i understand he's not been convicted, but neither has she even been accused.

[blondeatlast]

141. FWIW, I think malaise's aim is true here. If you read through

the thread, she's asking some reasonable questions and making some good comments regarding the accuser and accused.

I would not say that about every respondent in the thread; the usual suspects are usually suspecting as usual.

[CreekDog]

142. you're right. i'm just pointing out that entertaining a conspiracy is pretty unfair to her

especially if the premise is that believing he's guilty is unfair to him.

[blondeatlast]

144. Adn on that, I most assuredly agree with you. nt

[Hannah Bell]

148. oh give it a rest. he didn't accuse her of anything.

btw, if you think for a few minutes you can probably come up with some set-ups that she wouldn't have to be involved in at all.

i can, so i guess you're as smart as me.

[CreekDog]

160. if those setups had a chance of working w/o her involvement --sort of implicates him

:shrug:

[LanternWaste]

166. I'll take the simplest scenario over...

More often than not, I'll take the simplest scenario over a post-hoc-ergo-prom-prompter-hoc prognostication.

[Eddie Haskell]

132. Simplest of scenarios for the simple minded

Your words: "That simplest of scenarios doesn't require a set up or a conspiracy or aliens beaming thought transmissions into our brains... it simply requires a vulgar man."

So now we accept the presumption of guilt by virtue of gender or we're conspiracy theorists? Wow!

[blondeatlast]

135. did the word "vulgar" pass you by? I didn't think so, since you quoted it.

But really good stab at making a gender mountain out of a social molehill.

[pnwmom]

159. No, the emphasis is on the "vulgar" not the gender.

Although I would have used a different word, suggesting his past aggressive and self-entitled use of force.

[LanternWaste]

167. Bless your little heart...

I'm not presuming guilt. The court does that. My opinions are irrelevant. I merely answered a question without prognosticating.

However, if your implication that I'm simple-minded assuages the fact that others may disagree with you, by all means- make the petulant presumptions :shrug:

[Eddie Haskell]

171. I apologize for the simple-minded header

Vulgar ... aren't we all?

Still, being male and vulgar is not a crime. My real problem with your post, however, is your assertion that those who are willing to withhold judgement and consider other possibilities are conspiracy nuts.

I choose to speak out against the rush to judgement because I believe in the presumption of innocence and the right to a fair trial ... not to protect DSK, but to protect us all.

As Isaiah Berlin astutely observed, “Ridicule kills more surely than savage indignation.” I'm guilty on both counts.

[steve2470]

155. Reuters: Hotel called police an hour after Strauss-Kahn left

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/18/strausskahn-timing-idUSN1828851220110518

May 18 (Reuters) - Dominique Strauss-Kahn left the Sofitel near Times Square in Manhattan around 12:30 pm (1630 GMT) on Saturday and roughly an hour later, hotel security called police to report an alleged sexual assault, a law enforcement source told Reuters.

[steve2470]

156. Reuters: Hotel maid to testify (on Wednesday)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/18/us-strausskahn-arrest-idUSTRE74D29F20110518

(Reuters) - A hotel maid who says IMF chief Dominique Strauss-Kahn tried to rape her was due to testify to a New York grand jury on Wednesday, as the French presidential hopeful faced growing pressure to resign.

A lawyer for the woman, a 32-year-old widow from West Africa, dismissed a suggestion by Strauss-Kahn's attorney that the incident at the luxury Sofitel hotel in Times Square last Saturday might not have been a sexual assault.

"There's nothing consensual about what took place in that hotel room," lawyer Jeffrey Shapiro told NBC's "Today" show.

Shapiro told Reuters his client would testify before the grand jury later on Wednesday. In the U.S. legal system, a grand jury convenes in secret to hear evidence and decide whether to indict a defendant.

[Bucky]

162. A set up in which he practically *tricked* into raping that woman. Right.

[Zax2me]

170. I want to know why a so-called socialist was in a 3k a night

room to begin with. Everything smells here.