Of panties, pearls and hand-wringing... Sexism and war-talk.

[Bonobo]

I have noticed a strong relationship between people's language and their stance on war issues.

For example, if one criticizes US foreign policy vis a vis the killing of OBL, there are often attacks on that person in the form of sexist language such as "You've got your panties in a bunch" or "You're a pearl clutcher" or a "hand-wringer".

It often accompanies male bravado talk such as "I would put a bullet in him myself" and similar things.

Is there a relationship? Do men need to prove how tough they are by differentiating themselves from women --the symbol of everything non-manly?

[Fumesucker]

1. Testosterone..

You're soaking in it..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bEkq7JCbik

[CTyankee]

2. "crying like a little girl" irks the hell out of me.

I raised a boy and two girls and they all cried.

[demmiblue]

3. Yes, some men do. Even here. n/t

[DireStrike]

4. Hand-wringing?

That one seems neutral to me. However, any sort of submissive or gentle action is usually associated with the feminine, so this would be a difficult accusation to beat.

[JoePhilly]

25. Have always thought of that one as totally gender neutral.

A "hand wringer" is an over the top pessimist who sees only the dark side of everything and who's only predictions for the future are of doom and gloom.

A great example of a "hand wringer" (one who had no hands ironically) would be Eeyore.

From wikipedia ...
Eeyore (Listeni /ˈiː.ɔr/ EE-or) is a character in the Winnie-the-Pooh books by A.A. Milne. He is generally characterized as a pessimistic, gloomy, depressed, anhedonic, old grey stuffed donkey who is a friend of the title character, Winnie-the-Pooh.

[Shandris]

5. I'm not so sure pearl-clutching applies, at least.

Believe it or not, I only heard that one used on a forum in the last...two, maybe three months? Suddenly I'm seeing it popping up in a couple different places. But I first got it from a good female friend of mine in the LGBT community, but she (and by extension I) tends to only use it in sex versus society-type conversations (the conservatives 'pearl-clutching' about someone, somewhere having sex being a prominent example). The 'panties in a bunch' one though...yeah, I think that is probably related insofar as someone likely to talk about putting bullets in people, etc would tend to use the other line also.

I do think, as a bit of a side-note, that there is a tendency to group ~too~ many people together though, despite the minutae of differences one can hold regarding the use of war or violence and the people that support them. There isn't just a monolithic group of 'war lovers' (oh, I'm sure there are ~some~, but you won't find them on DU) and then 'war-haters' or 'peace-lovers'. There is a lot of nuance involved. So I'm not too sure that the overall 'link' is worth considering for too long. In short...yeah, probably some definite bleedover (see what I did there? :P ) between the hardcore war supporters, probably not so much with nuanced war supporters or peace activists.

[seabeyond]

21. pearl clutching has become the fun accusation for a handful on du, even to extent of inappropriate

situations where it has nothign to do with pearl clutching. but pearl clutching is used as an absolute to shut a woman up if she ahs an opinion and speaks out about sexism or related topic.

who wants to be called a pearl clutcher.

and members of du know this and use it often and excessively, for EVERYTHING with differing opinion. so much so, it is a joke

[JoePhilly]

26. I use it for feigned displays of shock and indignation.

Regardless of the gender of the poster, which you can rarely tell given the variety of user names.

[pintobean]

6. I don't see sexism in any of your examples.

That you want to assign certain actions or words to a gender seems sexist to me.

[Bonobo]

8. LOL.

Yeah, "panties in a bunch" is totally neutral.

[Ineeda]

14. LOL

I'm gonna use BBP from now on: boxers/briefs/panties. Although that leaves out the thong- and commando-inclined, of both genders. However, I never used the objectionable phrase before, anyway.

[pipi_k]

17. I never liked that word

ever since the Jethro Tull song "Aqualung" came out.

Panties...yech


So I call 'em skivvies. Or underpants.


:7

[Odin2005]

7. I though "pearl-clutching" was a swipe at FUNDIES, not women in general.

:shrug:

[pintobean]

10. I hate that phrase

It makes me think of Mrs. Howell.

[Bonobo]

11. But you just said (unconvincingly) that it was gender neutral and I was sexist for suggesting

a correlation!

So which is it?

[pintobean]

15. That's not what I said.

[Shandris]

13. Yeah, exactly. This was how I took it to be also.

Probably to me the unconscious connection from my grandmother wearing the same pearl necklace to church for...well, every year I've been alive.

[MineralMan]

9. Well, now you've given me the vapors.

:rofl:

[msanthrope]

23. Wanna borrow my fainting couch? n/t

[mmonk]

12. The nature of primitive societies.

It's all primal.

[seabeyond]

22. you think it is primal for a man to be conditioned to be so fearful of a feminine accusation, lol?nt

[mmonk]

31. Male oriented behavioral dominance over others and the human species.

Few exceptions.

[Silent3]

16. Isn't it also sexist to say "I would put a bullet in him myself" is "male bravado"?

Aren't there many women who would literally, or at least metaphorically, want put a bullet in someone?

You seem to want it both ways: you don't want anti-war talk to be treated as unmanly, but you're happy yourself to stick with the status quo of considering violent rhetoric to be masculine.

[pipi_k]

19. I know...what about us wimmins?

There have been plenty of times when an occasion presented itself...escaped murderer, rapist, whatever...and I said, and meant, that if such a person showed up out here and tried to hurt anyone in my home I would put a bullet in him and throw his body out into the woods for the animals to eat.

[Bluenorthwest]

18. I see that language as heterosexualist bullshit

not 'male' or 'female' but 'Straight culture'. Except for pearl clutching, which describes that which is done by an uptight just so type when confronted with something shocking. Many Straight folk clutch their pearls about GLBT issues. Especially the men!

[JoePhilly]

20. And now ... "off to the fainting couch".

I see the reference to "clutching pearls" as a pretty good description of a situation (any situation) in which one (anyone) makes an overly dramatic display of shock or indignation. Its a false display.

And I notice you say "male bravado" ... do you think only males demonstrate "bravado" (and I think you really mean "false bravado" in your example) or that only women "clutch their pearls"?

I don't.

[Bunny]

27. Do you know any men who wear pearls?

I don't. So, regardless of the gender of whomever you're insulting at the moment, it all comes back to calling someone a woman, in an insulting way.

[pintobean]

29. .

[JoePhilly]

30. No, I'm accusing one of making a overly dramatic feigned display of

shock and indignation. Men AND women use the same phrase to describe the same behavior.

I see phrases like "tough guy", "macho", etc here all the time ... but I don't think those are being used to describe all men. They are being used to describe the actions or behavior of some one specific.

Let's take the OP. It refers to "male bravado". Should I be offended? I'm a male.

But I'm not offended because she (I think she) is more likely referring to "false bravado" ... a behavior in which some one acts tough when there is clearly no danger. A behavior commonly associated with men.

Do we assume that displays of "bravado" or "false bravado" are behaviors that only men perform?

I don't.

[msanthrope]

24. "Get Off My Lawn" is sexist, too, then?

'Cause I can't picture anyone but an older man....

[tularetom]

28. These are great terms to use in an argument with a wing nut

Nothing gets under their skin faster than to refer to them in terms that imply that they are, well, less than totally 100% macho.

You can always get a right wing asshole to start getting all red in the face and sputtering by telling him not to get his panties in a bunch.

And if you mock him in a sort of falsetto voice, he might even take a swing at you. (I've never had this happen but I keep hoping).