The Targeted Assassination of Osama bin Laden: Obama cannot serve as judge, jury and executioner

[Karmadillo]

http://www.truth-out.org/targeted-assassination-osama-bin-laden/1305051197

The Targeted Assassination of Osama bin Laden
Tuesday 10 May 2011

When he announced that Osama bin Laden had been killed by a Navy Seal team in Pakistan, President Barack Obama said, “Justice has been done.” Mr. Obama misused the word, "justice" when he made that statement. He should have said, "Retaliation has been accomplished." A former professor of constitutional law should know the difference between those two concepts. The word "justice" implies an act of applying or upholding the law.

Targeted assassinations violate well-established principles of international law. Also called political assassinations, they are extrajudicial executions. These are unlawful and deliberate killings carried out by order of, or with the acquiescence of, a government, outside any judicial framework.

<edit>

After the Holocaust, Winston Churchill wanted to execute the Nazi leaders without trials. But the U.S. government opposed the extrajudicial executions of Nazi officials who had committed genocide against millions of people. U.S. Supreme Court Justice Robert H. Jackson, who served as chief prosecutor at the Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal, told President Harry Truman: “We could execute or otherwise punish without a hearing. But undiscriminating executions or punishments without definite findings of guilt, fairly arrived at, would … not set easily on the American conscience or be remembered by children with pride.”

Osama bin Laden and the “suspected militants” targeted in drone attacks should have been arrested and tried in U.S. courts or an international tribunal. Obama cannot serve as judge, jury and executioner. These assassinations are not only illegal; they create a dangerous precedent, which could be used to justify the targeted killings of U.S. leaders.

[opihimoimoi]

1. RW Trash Talk....

[ingac70]

2. +1

[howard112211]

3. To clarify: You are suggesting that the contents of the article are right wing?

[opihimoimoi]

14. sure looks it

[coalition_unwilling]

48. You're insane. There's nothing RW about it. - n/t

[EFerrari]

50. Cohn is a past president of the National Lawyers' Guild

a law professor and a human rights attorney. She is not a wing nut.

[G_j]

54. absolutely, a remarkable person

& the NLG is awesome!

[EFerrari]

57. This article is going viral right now.

:hi:

[G_j]

60. I'm glad

The browbeating of those who question the 'policy' is just more of the old "Just-Us" approach. War criminals should be brought to trial, and that includes a bunch of folks in the Bush administration, who are the worst offenders of all!

[sabrina 1]

65. So Bush was right after all?

And the 'left' who agreed with this OP when Bush proposed this unitary executive theory, were being unfair to Bush?

It's so hard to keep up with what position we are supposed to take on these Constitutional issues since Nov. 2008 :eyes:

[Bonobo]

4. Look, it's common sense.

If it was okay for everyone country's leaders to just unilaterally decide when and if someone was deserving of death, we would be in for even more of a world of shit.

Just think for a minute.

[coalition_unwilling]

49. Thinking is so 20th Century - n/t

[mmonk]

5. I commend your courage.

Postings against extrajudicial killings aren't popular.

[Kolesar]

6. The hit was not an "assassination"; OBL was our god damned military opponent

What President Obama and JSOC did was tasteful.

[Spider Jerusalem]

10. Well no, he wasn't

Al Qaeda is not a state actor and never has been; nor is it anything that could be called "military". Paramilitary or quasi-military; in international law "military" refers specifically to armed forces of recognised states. What he was was a criminal.

[Kolesar]

16. Uh, OBL declared war on America...eom

[Spider Jerusalem]

17. Only states may declare war.

An individual can't. A non-state organisation can't. Terrorist groups can't "declare war".

[DevonRex]

45. Yet they did and actually attacked.

[Spider Jerusalem]

53. Well no, they didn't. There's a difference between criminal actions and war.

Terrorist are criminals. Not soldiers. They do not act as agents of state policy. This is very simple.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kolesar]

46. It's "GOBAMA", not "GOSAMA"

!!

[Spider Jerusalem]

55. You seem to have a real problem with nuance.

I'm very sorry for you.

(And I haven't said anything that could reasonably be construed as supportive of Bin Laden. Or terrorists generally. Apart from pointing out that no, they aren't state actors, can't declare war, etc. Which are all basic facts that are well supported in law. Are you enjoying your ignorance?)

[SkyDaddy7]

11. I thought "assassination" only applied to heads of state...

Everyone keeps using that term but I think this is incorrect...They would be more in line to call it murder (Which it was not) than they are to call it an "assassination", correct??

Like you said this guy was legitimate military target! I would bet my life savings had we killed him in a cave or anywhere but in a city no one would be saying anything!

[coalition_unwilling]

51. 'Tasteful' - taking the corpse of your enemy killed on land and

dumping it in an unmarked grave at sea, that's tasteful all right.

As Oscar Wilde once said (paraphrasing), America is the first country to move from barbarism to decadence and skip the civilization.

[Trajan]

7. If Nazi leaders were holed up in some hidden fortress ...

Attempting to avoid arrest and deny justice .... You can be sure that ole Winston would have had no problem knowing that one of them might have been killed while resisting arrest ...

Yes ... There is a limited market for this theory of assassination, but it's really only a verbal dispute ...

There was ample cause to chase this rat bastard down, in another country, and deny him the freedom to escape .... ANY move that did not say 'arrest me now' would provide justification for lethal force.

These analogies that are provided are false analogies .... They do not depict in any way the events as they are understood .... a specious and dishonest argument ...

Assassination ? ... How about killed while attempting to avoid arrest .... That is what sometimes happens to criminals ...

[coalition_unwilling]

52. Your constant use of ellipses (. . . . ) are really annoying and actually

damange your point by showing literally the holes in your thinking.

Rahter than dispute your points, I'll just place you on Ignore.

[Trajan]

62. Thanks .............

............................................................

[Trajan]

64. (psssst ... There is a reason for ellipses beyond grammar)

(Parsing routines that process text in forums like this automatically cut spaces between sentences, forcing sentences to crowd into each other and reducing readability .... Using 'periods' as space holders allows sentences to ... B ... R ... E ... A ... T ... H ... E ..... and reduce strain on readers ... )

Butincaseanyoneelseisoffended,hereyago!

:hi:

[liberal N proud]

8. Yeah, we should have had a mock trial like the bu$h regime did for Saddam

Just in case:


:sarcasm:

[CatWoman]

27. not needed

and once I came upon your reponse, I stopped reading this thread.

this is ALL that needs to be said.

[CBGLuthier]

9. yawn

[blondeatlast]

33. Squared. nt

[SidDithers]

12. pfffftt...nt

Sid

[JoePhilly]

13. Is this attempt #25 or #26?

[Fla_Democrat]

15. He was only judge and jury

the seal team member was the executioner, gosh.







:smoke:

[era veteran]

18. Wrong, Wrong, so very, very wrong

Remember the couple holding hands and jumping away from the fire at The Towers on 9/11? For people who think we did wrong; He would kill everyone of you and your families if he could have. The self preservation gene is not broken in me. Good job POTUS and US Navy Seals. This is one man who is proud of you for eliminating this murdering son of a bitch. Goddamn OBL to hell.

[Snedder]

19. Oh yeah? He just did!

Deal with it.

[quaker bill]

20. Will it never cease

"Osama bin Laden and the “suspected militants” targeted in drone attacks should have been arrested" Yes, US boots on the ground in Western Pakistan arresting whomever they felt it proper to arrest. This surely would have gone over well. I actually think the Pak army tried this and were driven back...


We have been doing "targeted killings" over there for nearly a decade now. Why does this one have some folks panties in a wad? It is surely one of the most well justified of such operations.

Perhaps we should have just arrested and tried the entire middle east. Get real. It is actually a war whenever we are consistently, over the course of years, using military force to kill specific people, regardless of where it is going on. This was just another of many such operations. Unless you grant OBL some special status, he is no different than the 10's of thousands of others that have met an abrupt end.

I am not prepared to grant OBL any special consideration. This was just another of many operations to capture or kill terrorist leaders that resulted in the target being dead.

[Solomon]

21. I'll sum it up for you. How dare a black man exercise the

perogative of a white man. Does Obama think he's white? Oh wait. He is half-white.

There would be a ticker tape parade on Times Square had Bush done this.

[NotThisTime]

22. That sounds like an impeachable offense... that would be nifty.

[sufrommich]

23. You want Obama impeached? nt

[dionysus]

32. they can dream can't they? only on DU folks...

[sufrommich]

35. And Free Republic. nt

[NotThisTime]

34. No but apparently there are those here that think he should be and quite frankly I'm sick of it

[robcon]

24. Nonsense. Assassination of the head of state in a war is fine.

No one would have thought it was odd if bin Laden tried to kill the U.S. president, would they?

[Spider Jerusalem]

25. Head of what state?

Terrorist organisations are not states.

[oneshooter]

26. Nothing more than FDR did in 1943

President Franklin D. Roosevelt was personally notified of this intelligence and asked for permission to kill Yamamoto. Roosevelt gave his approval, and Admiral Nimitz authorized the mission on April 17th.

Operation Vengence

http://www.militaryhistory.org/2009/07/operation-vengeance/


Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Maine-ah]

28. then there's this....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/09/osama-bin-laden-us-pakistan-deal


The US and Pakistan struck a secret deal almost a decade ago permitting a US operation against Osama bin Laden on Pakistani soil similar to last week's raid that killed the al-Qaida leader, the Guardian has learned.

The deal was struck between the military leader General Pervez Musharraf and President George Bush after Bin Laden escaped US forces in the mountains of Tora Bora in late 2001, according to serving and retired Pakistani and US officials.

Under its terms, Pakistan would allow US forces to conduct a unilateral raid inside Pakistan in search of Bin Laden, his deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri, and the al-Qaida No3. Afterwards, both sides agreed, Pakistan would vociferously protest the incursion.

"There was an agreement between Bush and Musharraf that if we knew where Osama was, we were going to come and get him," said a former senior US official with knowledge of counterterrorism operations. "The Pakistanis would put up a hue and cry, but they wouldn't stop us."

[pipi_k]

29. There could never be "justice"

He was probably one of the most hated men in the world. Where would an impartial jury have been found?


If one can't have an impartial jury...and consequently, a fair trial...then where is "justice"?


A sham trial would have amounted to basically the same thing...found guilty and executed...revenge everyone knew would happen.

[wildbilln864]

30. apparently he can....

and did! :shrug:

[dionysus]

31. unrec for crying about dead terrorists.

:cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:

[Johonny]

36. bin Laden should have rode Yoshi to the Mushroom Kingdom

all other opinions on this matter are irrational

[Hell Hath No Fury]

37. Thank you for this attempt.

Some of us "get it". Sadly, many others here do not. :(

[Dreamer Tatum]

38. I will read this in 24 business hours. nt

[Edweird]

39. War with Pakistan would have been better? Remember why went into Afghanistan?

Quite frankly he should have been
killed after the Cole or embassy bombing.

[ProSense]

40. Another

"poor bin Laden" opinion laced with idiocy.

"Targeted assassinations violate well-established principles of international law. Also called political assassinations, they are extrajudicial executions."

Killing terrorists = "political assassinations"

Osama bin Laden was special

Has anyone suggested a bin Laden defense fund?

[Bonobo]

41. Vacuous. nt

[ProSense]

42. Trite! n/t

[DevonRex]

43. I'm glad bin laden is dead. Only wish it could have been as painful

as the deaths of those on 9/11.

[backscatter712]

58. If he made it through trial to execution.

He should have been made to choose between being burned to death and being pushed off a hundred story building.

[DevonRex]

61. Precisely. And nothing on earth can compensate for all those who

watched in horror as their loved ones suffered those fates on that day.

[backscatter712]

44. Nonsense! We're in a state of war with Al Qaeda.

And it's not the first time we've been at war with a non-state group - see the Barbary Pirates.

In war, you target your enemy's leaders and generals. Osama bin Laden was a legitimate target of war, even if we killed him execution-style with a bullet to the back of his head.

And I'm not liking the second-guessing of the SEALs. They were there, we weren't. They were in enemy territory, expecting resistance, and the way I see it, one of America's most notorious enemies failed to surrender fast enough, which is a fatal error after boasting that he wouldn't be taken alive. The SEALs were expecting to be shot at, were expecting the use of suicide vests, they think the entire compound may have been rigged with explosives, so they didn't take any chances.

[Hosnon]

47. Put me down on the "I don't give a fuck" list.

This was Osama bin Laden.

The faux concern for his rights is ridiculous.

[backscatter712]

56. If bin Laden had been captured, the same howler monkeys crying about his "murder"...

would be howling about how Obama didn't have the balls to pull the trigger on bin Laden.

They're a bunch of hypocrites.

[EFerrari]

59. The same people who protested this same practice under Bush are protesting now.

What has changed since we objected to Bush thumbing his nose at the law?

[Hosnon]

66. Bush found and killed Osama too?

Learn something knew every day.