U.S. Postal Service reports $2.2 billion loss

[The Northerner]

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- The U.S. Postal Service continues to hemorrhage money, with a loss of $2.2 billion in the most recent quarter.

The national mail service said on Tuesday that it expects to have a cash shortfall and reach its statutory borrowing limit by the time its fiscal year ends in September. That means the agency could be forced to default on some of its payments to the federal government.

Patrick Donahoe, the Postmaster General, said the service is still seeking changes to federal laws that would allow it to change its business model and potentially save enough money to avoid a default.

"The Postal Service may return to financial stability only through significant changes to the laws that limit flexibility and impose undue financial burdens," Donahoe said in a statement.

Read more: http://money.cnn.com/2011/05/10/news/companies/usps_earnings/?section=money_latest

[Countdown_3_2_1]

1. The internet and technology are killing the post office.

Perhaps the time has come to let it go. Or at least downsize the anachronism.

[Occulus]

3. The USPS is required by law to pre-fund retiree health benefits

That requirement is putting the USPS firmly in the red, and no other Federal agency has that particular burden.

Roll that back and I'm told USPS would be firmly in the black.

[tammywammy]

7. I've seen that posted a few times.

When did this happen? A few years ago when the USPS suddenly was in the red all the time? What was the justification for making the USPS do that? Is there any attempt to roll that provision back?

You seem pretty knowledgeable about the USPS, that's why I'm asking. :)

Thanks in advance.

[Occulus]

16. It was, IIRC, part of the major postal legislation passed some years back.

I personally think it was an attempt to artificially drive USPS into the red for the purpose of ultimate privatization. But for that requirement, the USPS would, by all accounts, be in fine financial shape, still "losing" money but still in the black.

The financial health of the USPS should be of no concern, IMO. The USPS is supposed to be a service, not a business. Note that it is BUSINESSMEN that have driven it into the ground, and that's only happened since the USPS was ordered to run itself like a BUSINESS.

The entire legislation ought to be revisited, if you ask me. It's been a bad deal for everyone involved (which was probably the point).

[tammywammy]

18. Yes, it does sound like it definitely should be reversed.

I don't use the post office much, but there's nothing like mailing and/or receiving a hand written card. Email can't replace everything. Yesterday my lovely mail man delivered a text book I had ordered used via Amazon. I can't get a text book via email. :)

[Freddie Stubbs]

91. As they should. Their days are numbered due to technology, and taxpayers shouldn't be

left holding the bag when the end comes.

[AsahinaKimi]

5. The only time I use the mail

Is to send in my rent check. My landlady doesn't have paypal..every other bill I pay though the Internet. She refuses to get a pay pal account. So, it costs me a few cents to have a check drawn up by the bank, and to buy postage each month.

Still..it would be hard to send a package via the INTERNET, and I think USPS are still cheaper then UPS or Federal Express.

[CreekDog]

21. their business model seems to be based on email anyway

i mean, almost all the snail mail i get is spam.

[Hannah Bell]

56. it isn't "their" business model. it's the model that was forced on them by congress

in the interest of private corps.

[Scruffy1]

23. That is just ill-informed

The US Postal Service handles over 40% of the whole worlds mail. Personal mail has always been a small part of total revenue and has stayed about flat since 2006.

UPS and FedEX could not survive without the postal service since the USPS delivers their parcels in areas that are not viable for them or in the case of FedEX gives them "last mile" service.

The 5.5 billion prefunding requirement was just a way of ripping off the public by making the USPS look bad. No mention is made of the 50+ billion overpayment to CSRS, which the USPS is not getting back, or the years that the surplus funds went to the general fund.

It seems that there are plenty on DU who buy anything the Reich wingers hand out and repeat ad nauseum.

The biggest problem that I see in the USPS is too many EAS personnel(supervisors) who are largely unqualified yes people. Eliminating 10,000 of these would save at least a billion a year with zero effect on service.

[Occulus]

30. +1000

I can tell you WHY the USPS has too many EAS employees, though. They don't want to promote people who actually work and actually move the mail and actually do a good job doing that because they need those people out on the floor, doing the work, moving the mail, and doing a good job doing so!

USPS will never promote experienced, hard working clerk employees because those are the exact people they need. Lazy workers, complete idiots, and born bootlickers will always get promoted because the USPS doesn't want those people handling mail, where they could make a serious mistake that does actual harm to the customer.

We have an entire shift run by managers who shouldn't be in charge of the cleanup of a puddle of catsick. One of them failed her EAS interview five times, one of them has only ever worked in a different craft and has no automation experience at all, and the head honcho doesn't know what the words "shall provide" mean in relation to a binding arbitration agreement.

Get rid of the bad managers, put competent people in thir place, and USPS would be much better off.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

45. And I raise your +1000, another 1000*

Well said.

[Hannah Bell]

57. +100. it was a fucking crime.

[Hannah Bell]

54. no, what is killing the post office was put in motion long ago, when congress "reformed"

the post office to give business to ups/fed ex and make usps a junk mail service.

[Shagbark Hickory]

90. The internet and technology aren't killing USPS, it's competitors re-writing the regulations are

killing it.

When you think about it, fedex and ups are doing fine. Internet and technology is great for parcel delivery which is something the USPS could excel at if they didn't have fedex drop boxes right out side the front door of the post office and make it illegal to put anything in a mailbox that weighs more than 13 oz.

[Philippine expat]

95. My first post

but wouldn't getting rid of the PO require a constitutional amendment?
The PO is one of the things mandated by the constitution

[pwb]

2. Post office is top heavy with managers that do nothing.

Computers have been doing postmaster and supervisor work for over 15 years. The only thing they do to save their jobs is harass the people that really do move the mail.

[moondust]

4. Do you know that from experience?

Or is it just a "feeling" you have?

[mailman82]

8. He is right!

I retired in Dec. the pre funding dates back to Raygun. In 1984 he wanted all PO employs on SS. Our retirement was paid for by the new people coming in. That would stop, hence the deal was made so we Civil Servants would not loose what we had already paid in, and that we would have a pension when we retired.
The management has always been top heavy,we could never understand why an office of 120 employees needed 5 supervisors. The harassment was heavy every day. That is one of the reasons I got out. I am not rich but I am getting along well. One reason is I worked mucho overtime so I could pay my house off early.

[moondust]

9. Thank you.

And congratulations on retirement!

Just curious...do you think very much of the hiring, firing, and promotions in the PO is/was related to political affiliation?

[mailman82]

12. No

But we do have political from the NALC called Colcep, we donate money to help Dems who are kind to the workers. Like Kucinich and Brown from Ohio!

[CreekDog]

22. how do i stop the boatload of flyers and papers USPS puts through my mailbox

unaddressed, unwanted, wasteful and seemingly --unstoppable.

the mail has become a burden to me.

i wish you no harm, but the mail is spam for the most part, anymore. junk mail so predominates my daily delivery that occasionally i lose bills and other materials because they are mixed in with tons of stuff i don't want and don't need. to add insult to injury, much of what i don't want needs to be shredded.

:shrug:

[Occulus]

25. Shred it anyway and send it to recycling

All that junk mail helps keep your stamp prices under fifty cents.

Here's a hint: virtually everything that says "Presort Standard: USPS Permit PAID" or similar (it's the "Presort Standard" part that's important) where the stamp usually goes is safe to throw out. Standard mail is the stuff sent out in bulk.

You only have to handle one piece of that junk mail. I had the privilege of sorting the other 9999 pieces! :D

[CreekDog]

28. That's not an answer

give me a REAL answer, don't just tell me to do what i'm doing.

:wtf:

and half the stuff are flyers without any delivery information on them --like those newspaper type flyers advertising fruit on sale at the grocery store and KFC coupons.

i don't want any of this stuff.

[Occulus]

31. Well, we can't not deliver.

We're bound to deliver any and all mail that's accepted for delivery, and your carrier can't filter it out, even if you tell him to do so. Your only recourse is to contact the sender and reqest to be removed from their mailing list, which is entirely up to them.

If you look closely at those flyers, they probably in fact do have delivery information on them somewhere. However, that may not be the case every time. Some mailings are addressed to "Dear Occupant", without any actual address but "current resident". Some of them may not have any delivery information on the at all. In the case of the former, we've probably been contracted to deliver to a certain block of addresses by a merchant (bulk rates are really the only way that can happen); in other cases, the merchant may have contracted the delivery directly with the merchant, in which case the mailing is printed, shipped to their own drivers, and delivered without any USPS involvement.

Your only recourse is to contact the sender. You may mark the mailpiece "REFUSED: Return to Sender", but that might not get you off their list. If you feel you're being harassed with deliveries you have specifically requested not be sent to you, contact your local postmaster; there may be something they can do for you.

[CreekDog]

34. i know the mail carrier has a job to do --but if the USPS can't stop all the crap

then i need them to deliver it less often.

the USPS business model relies on making money of spamming me with deliveries i don't want, don't need and would stop if there were a practical way to do so.

that business model is not working for me. 3 days a week would reduce my junkmail load (or at least the number of times i need to recycle it --and what an incredible waste of paper for stuff i shred --i had to buy a more expensive shredder to deal with USPS junk mail that i DON'T want).

it's gotta stop. i've lost my patience with it. tell your bosses that.

[Occulus]

35. Like I said, mark it refused and send it back or complain to the mailer.

We simply do not have the capability to stop sending it to you. Once we accept a mailpiece for processing, we are legally bound to deliver that piece, whether it is wanted or not.

If you refuse the mailpiece (make sure to CLEARLY mark it as "refused")and the mailer has not requested return service or address service, it will most likely end up in the "official trash" (undeliverable/dead letter/nixie bin). Perhaps that's your best option.

[CreekDog]

42. it's over --this is all going to come to an end

more and more people will realize that almost all the mail they get --they don't want.

it's a spigot of advertising. the longer the USPS enables this (by charging cheap rates to inundate people) the worse the backlash will be. sometimes my bank statements are left hanging out of my mailbox while the junk is safely inside.

it's become a nuisance.

i hope the USPS management can do something smart to protect your jobs because at the rate they're going, their making the mail a nuisance is going to crash headlong into financial issues and put the whole system at risk of reductions.

:shrug:

[kick-ass-bob]

55. The only way it ends is if...

you want to spend $7 on a first class stamp. Or, the banks pay it. But you know who ends up paying it when a bank gets charged.

The business model you are talking about is UPS/Fed Ex - which will charge more for the service.

[MessiahRp]

63. I just chuck the stuff I don't want.

It's not like email where you have to worry about viruses or your mail program opening it inadvertently. You just toss it out. It's not that big of a hassle unless you're super lazy.

Rp

[CreekDog]

65. why do you people keep using the term "lazy" --I'm handling the mail now aren't I?

:wtf:

it's just a waste of resources, fuel and money to deliver stuff that almost nobody wants.

nevermind the harm to the environment so much material with almost no redeeming or useful value causes.

[MessiahRp]

66. Maybe but the USPS needs that stuff to be mailed out.

If you want to pay reasonable rates for your regular mail you best come to terms with the fact that the more junk mail the better for the USPS and your mail service. Without it, there would be an even greater running deficit, likely large enough to spur on a more vigorous attack from Republicans who are already frothing at the mouth to defund USPS in favor of gifts in favor of their favorite privatized delivery option lobbyists. UPS and FedEx will be happy to accept your $6 mailing fee because you're unwilling to just toss junk mail out.

Rp

[CreekDog]

67. NO. We don't need to waste money mailing people stuff they don't want at the expense of the earth

Anyone who says that or thinks that is wrong.

I'd be happy to pay more for a stamp to reduce the junkload of junk mail which is a nuisance, causes litter, uses lots of fuel to print, move around and then recycle...the list goes on.

It's one thing to use these resources for things people want --it's wrong to use them for things people don't.

[MessiahRp]

70. That's subjective though. Just because you don't want the ads doesn't mean someone else doesn't.

If you know how marketing works, you're absolutely incapable of grabbing the right customer every time. You can do all the analytics you want and still only come up with a 5-10% success rate. Your best hope is to cast a wide net and invite everyone to participate. Sure, there are some times where that means reaching the uninterested as you yourself apparently are with any unsolicited ads that come your way. But for others you'll get hits from people of similar interests and buying patterns and often times draw in customers that were unaware of your product or store. Just because you don't like the ads or consider them junk doesn't mean your neighbors want those same ads discontinued. Sure there are ones that are less popular as a whole than others but deciding what equals "junk mail" is subjective and doesn't apply universally.

Rp

[CreekDog]

72. you want it --ASK FOR IT

they don't need to mail a thousand people so that you, Mr. "I love sales pitches", can get junk mail.

[MessiahRp]

77. LOL.

How small minded your world would be when most people would be left unaware of so many new ideas and concepts because you're so anti-marketing that you basically want to ban it altogether. I'm not a huge fan of the environmental factors involved in creating excess mail but at least it's mostly biodegradable and going back into the Earth naturally at some point. Regardless, I imagine you wouldn't even be sitting here using a computer to whine and bitch about getting junk mail had not some ambitious advertisers sent out a ton of mailers and paper advertising to convince people of the values that a home PC might have. Ultimately everything you own has been marketed at some point and I'd gather a huge percentage of it, wasn't directly to you because you requested it first. If so, you'd have to request ads and info on every single new item that came out which in the circle of product life would mean, almost nobody would ever own anything and there would be very little in terms of product creation out there.

Going back to the beginning of time there was always marketing. Someone had to market to the rest of the group the merits of the wheel being round.

So get off your high horse... of which the saddle was probably mass marketed.

Rp

[CreekDog]

78. biodegradable?

so you think it's fine if we truck it to your house, then truck it a 50 miles to the landfill?

:wtf:

[MessiahRp]

80. Since you can't argue against the rest of what I said...

Some pollution and environmental harm is inevitable for humans to exist. Unless you plan to play Little House on the Prairie and go back to cabins... oh shit... they cut down trees and burned wood then too. I guess you just can't win.

Rp

[CreekDog]

81. Actually I was astounded that you think paper junk mail is meant to be landfilled

rather than recycled. And also astounded that you think the energy to cart it around (things people don't want as opposed to things they do), is negligible.

what have you received in junk mail that you have bought and is useful to you that you did not already know about through other sources?

[MessiahRp]

82. I've received countless food coupons this way...

for places I have never eaten at and never thought to try but because someone mass marketed and I got a coupon in the mail, I had a reason to try it out.

Also, the delivery of the mail and delivery of mail to recyclable places or landfills depending on the ability your township has to recycle (I didn't specifically state I'd prefer it in a landfill but there are places in this country where recycling isn't exactly an option. There are still many rural places where people burn their garbage) I consider them somewhat negligible just because they create jobs and with those jobs creates tax dollars in which we can use government in many positive ways to push things further in a positive direction. Like: funding the EPA to make sure people are recycling correctly and safely. Like: using tax dollars to offer grants and loans for green energy solutions that hopefully push us off of fuel and create initiatives to make paper and plastic materials more environ-friendly. If people aren't working and the economy is depressed because of the lack of jobs creating a lack of tax dollars, government will use those tax dollars for non-green uses and claim that the money needs to be spent to create jobs, etc anyway, so ultimately it's a giant cycle and I see it as a necessity, even if it is less than ideal.

Rp

[CreekDog]

83. Did you know that recycling is secondary to reducing consumption?

and not using resources you don't need --that's far more efficient than recycling something you don't want in the first place.

[CreekDog]

96. thank you...that's just such novel advice and extremely helpful

obviously the advice of "chucking" is the sort that i rely on experts for. :sarcasm:

[MessiahRp]

97. I love that you came back to the original reply this much later to keep the argument going.. Bravo!!

Though I figured we'd hashed out most of our beliefs on this and had come to some sort of "my mind isn't changing, why continue" stalemate.

I guess you really were peeved enough to keep going though. Interesting.

If you feel the need to keep venting about your irrational hatred for what you deem to be junk mail, have at it.

Rp

[moondust]

36. Can't you

or somebody you know sit down for an hour or two and call up those spammers and raise hell? Tell them to get your name off their mailing list right now! File complaints with corporate HQ or something if necessary.

[CreekDog]

37. i'm at work during business hours

how am i going to have time to call everyone who bulk mails me (and there are lots)?

i can't even get the stupid Examiner to stop delivering to me. i'm looking into seeing if i can get the HOA to have people opt-in to delivery rather than opt-out (which doesn't work).

[BuelahWitch]

43. You're just making excuses because you want someone to do it for you

If you want it done, you will find a way to do it. You were given two options, unfortunately the world does not revolve around YOU. So suck it up and do it yourself, quit being a damn crybaby!

[CreekDog]

46. I've requested various things stop already and they continue

i've requested the free paper stop getting delivered and it continues.

i've requested credit card offers stop, and they slowed briefly, but then continued at full steam.

i've gone to anonymous giving because i'm blanketed by mailings from charitable organizations --those that don't allow anonymous giving, i've mostly eliminated and given more to organizations that do. ironically, the Sierra Club and other environmental organizations send me the most paper fundraising pitches --i've wanted to join Sierra for a long time, but their spamming my real mailbox put a stop to that.

the International Rescue Committee whom I'd heard good things about so that I donated to them after the Haiti earthquake --they send me thick mailings probably once a month. i'm not donating to them again until that stuff stops.



you don't believe i've made an effort to stop the junk mail --well i have. it's not worked. you don't like my answer, that's fine,
you don't have to. i don't like everything i read on DU either --as everyone knows.

what i'm trying to get folks to understand is that because all the normal routes to stopping this madness, because those aren't working or are too onerous, then i'm going to start fighting the postal service and advocating for it to be reduced or get a new mission. the current one is wasteful, intrusive and environmentally destructive.

how much fossil fuel is spent delivering paper junk mail that almost nobody wants? too much.

:hi:

[BuelahWitch]

47. Sorry about my tone, I didn't detect that in the other messages

I'm an old customer service rep who has heard this sort of thing till I'm ready to punch someone in the face. I guess I took my 20 years of listening to whining customers out on you. Sorry. :hi:

[CreekDog]

50. it's okay. :o)

In high school, I worked at a gas station and have had pretty much all the customer service experiences --except these were all up close and in person.

My coworker and friend was working there the night of the 1989 earthquake and some people were giving him a hard time as they asked for directions. So he gave them directions that went over the Bay Bridge.

:rofl:

[arikara]

51. I don't know about US post regs

but if you just mark "return to sender" on junk aka ad mail delivered by Canada Post and dump it in the mail slot, it just gets thrown into the recycle bin and the sender never gets it back. The only way to be sure the spammer gets it is to open it up and use the postage paid envelope provided by them. I have a 3 strike system. First time I just write "please take me off your mailing list". The second time I stuff the envelope full of assorted papers to make it heavy so they have to pay more and write "2nd warning. Take me off your list. Next time this will be taped to a brick."

I haven't had to use the brick yet though.

[CreekDog]

53. That's the problem --I'm trying to bug the sender, not drive the mail carrier crazy

:shrug:

[Hannah Bell]

58. congress. not the post office's model. on the interest & fir the benefit of privatizers.

[Scruffy1]

27. And in some places the ratio is one in five.

I've never seen seen a red badge with any qualifications but the ability to kiss ass.

[Zax2me]

24. BINGO

Have done contract work there recently and in past.
You can cut the office tension with a dull knife.
I've never had so many managers in any office ask me what I'm doing there - who? what manager told you to do this? what? who are you with again? oh - okay....
Rinse and repeat for a few more managers as they walk by looking for something to do.

[Thrill]

6. I have no solutions for how to help the post office

especially without hurting the workers

[Initech]

10. Tax billionaires. Bring in revenue instead of cutting anything.

[customerserviceguy]

14. How about doubling the cost of sending junk mail?

It would reduce the amount of expensively-carted litter, and the remaining idiots who think that mailing me a catalog once a quarter for five years since I bought ONE THING from them would subsidize the USPS.

Fund it from business stupidity.

[JNelson6563]

11. Time to privatize and charge us 2.49 per letter

Ugh

[mailman82]

13. The post office is

the only company to deliver to just about every house and apt. every day. Even UPS does not do that!

[JNelson6563]

52. I was being sarcastic

:toast:

[customerserviceguy]

15. That would continue the death spiral

Besides, with the new "forever" stamps, you'd really not have to pay that $2.49 per letter.

There's enough junk mail out there to support the USPS, just charge enough for it. For the most part, the USPS is 70% a carrier of junk mail, anyway. If creditors started charging their customers for paper bills, you'd see that percentage rise to 90-95%.

[OwnedByFerrets]

40. And offer services to ONLY those places that are profitable.

:sarcasm: People who bitch about the USPS are idiots.

[sketchy]

68. +1

There is also a strain of elitism involved in bitching about the post office, I believe.

[OwnedByFerrets]

69. I dont doubt that one bit. It seems to me

to be the same ones who bitch about unions and middle americans just trying to make ends meet. All the USPS employees that I know are wonderful people who are just trying to make a living. But if many had their way, USPS would be privatized and the workers fired, to be replaced by lower wage NON UNION workers. Thats the NEW american way, right?

[jillan]

17. Why don't they just start delivering 5 days a week instead of 6?

[tammywammy]

19. I thought that was in the discussion already n/t

[Occulus]

20. Because we are not a warehouse.

We simply do not have the space to shelve an extra day's worth of mail (you wouldn't believe how much that is). We also do not have the time to process three days' worth of mail.

Why am I saying "three days' worth"? The mail a carrier receives (at least in my facility, a processing and distribution center) gets picked up on, say, Monday. That mail gets trucked to the nearest P&DC, which is where I work. We process the mail overnight, and in theory that mail goes to the carrier the next day.

The exception is Saturday nights. We do not (and can not) process Monday's mail on Saturday night because, even though the carriers neither pick up nor deliver mail on Sunday, we are still getting mail into the building all day long. We process that into the mail for Monday delivery.

If we were to stop delivering on Saturday, we would end up processing Friday and Saturday and the mail still coming in on Sunday for Monday delivery. Now, because of the automated nature of mail processing, each run on each machine can only handle so much mail before it has to be pulled down and put into the second pass sort mode; once the second pass starts, all non-sequenced mail must not be included in the run. This is a direct result of the method being used; we call that method "delivery point sequence". Basically, the machines, in two passes, sort the mail into the carrier's walk sequence.

Unfortunately, we only have so much time to process the unsequenced mail before we must begin the second pass; this is a set time on the clock and is set to ensure we have enough time to get the sequenced mail on the trucks. This has to do with our own scheduling, the flight schedules of the airlines we use to freight the mail across the country, the rail schedules (some mail does go over rail too), and other factors. We also have internal metrics that would no longer be a valid measure of our efficiency were we to suddenly have to deal with an extra day's mail one day a week.

Moreover, any tardiness of mail processing (due to any number of factors, from available employees to equipment malfunction) has a ripple effect; mail not processed in time for next-day delivery has to be processed the following day. Because of the way we process mail for the carriers, the DPS operation can only be performed one single time per day. Any leftover mail will be delayed until the following day.

"But, Occulus," you say, "you can just leave the sequenced mail on the machines and add to that as you go, right?" Well, no. Once the first pass has been run and the machine taken out of program, you can't add to it. Doing so will only result in those mailpieces being out of sequence during the second pass. We can't leave the machines up, either, because the shift that performs the DPS operation uses literally all of the machines we have in the building. Leaving the stackers full of first pass mail would forbid the use of that machine for any other purpose (including SCF, FIM, PARS, and maintenance operations).

You can see, now, how five-day-delivery would cause timely delivery to badly suffer. You really have to be an employee to appreciate it, though. The entire system, even down to the technical "how" of all of the timing of processing and collections, is geared to allow us one day a week where we can get caught up and get mail ready for processing Sunday night for Monday delivery. "Giving" us an "extra" day would be doing us no favors at any point in the process, because we would still have to warehouse all that mail somewhere, transport it, allow for added time at all P&DC locations for mail processing in the DPS operation (necessarily taking time from the SCF three-digit operation, which itself preps for the DPS operation!), and on and on.

It would be a nightmare, and there would be no real benefit.

[Scruffy1]

29. Nice description of the Automated flat sequencing.

[Occulus]

32. Thanks. It's hard to describe the process without actually seeing it

You really have to have an understanding of how USPS does what it does to even start to appreciate what we do.

Maybe it's time to take a DBCS machine onto Oprah and show her, in the studio, how it gets done.

[KoKo]

26. Hit hard by internet......Hard to know what would work with this...but

it would be amazing to see folks not trusting privacy on internet ..suddenly going back to the "old ways" wouldn't it.

[Occulus]

33. The PR campaign writes itself. Tout the "Privacy" and "security" angles and you're golden.

I'm astonished that this has not been done yet.

[Hannah Bell]

59. nothing comes to you through the internet. it's delivered in gas-using vehicles by

delivery men.

something the usps did before congress "reformed" things to give that business to private companies.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OwnedByFerrets]

39. SO? If Brown and FedEx offered the same service as USPS it would

loose over 2 billion a year too. Cut out ONE day of war and you can make up that fucking deficit.

[rhett o rick]

41. Why do FedEx and UPS get to compete in the most lucrative areas? Leaving the USPS

holding the mail bag.

[Hannah Bell]

60. do you have to ask? same old scam. when usps folds, watch rates go up.

[Mimosa]

71. Hannah, you always nail it.

I've tracked packages which originate with UPS then switch to USPS. I don't know what that's all about but it happened a month ago.

UPS and Fedex do skim the cream of package delivery. USPS never got a chance t compete, sad to say.

[rhett o rick]

85. Hannah, you know me. It was Rhett orial.

ps: I look forward to your posts.

[rhett o rick]

92. Good grief, I meant Rhett orical. I dont need spell-checker, but a brain-checker would help.nmheck

[BuelahWitch]

44. It is SO MUCH more convenient for me to get a package from USPS

Than either Fed Ex or UPS. I know that if I am not home to receive the package it isn't as much as a hassle to get it as it is with the other carriers. I worked something out with the local UPS store to have packages delivered there (for which I pay them $5 a package-hey, it's either that or lose it!), however with the post office I know I can always pick it up on my day off. I am sorry that they're having financial problems. I hope that they can find a work around.

[Canuckistanian]

48. Mail service has NEVER been profitable. It was never intended to be

It was always a vital service provided by the state. Are we supposed to be expecting profits from the military, food inspection services and FAA now?

[harun]

74. +1, it isn't profitable nor should it be.

[Zanzoobar]

49. For half a buck I can send a letter almost anywhere.

It is one of the best deals in the known universe.

[Better Believe It]

61. The postal service was not set-up to be a profit making government enterprise.

It was organized as a vital public service financed by the government via postal charges and general tax revenues.

Now the politicians want to starve the USPS and destroy it so that private carriers can make fortunes by providing ALL letter and package services.

[TransitJohn]

62. I still think that the USPS should take over all email.

But I'm a whackjob in certain respects.

[RegieRocker]

76. I see them beating the socks off of fedex and ups when it comes to

shipping (it doesn't have to be there the next day). More and more businesses are using flat rate. Give it time, everything will be ok. Providing secure e-mail could prove very profitable.

[Xithras]

86. USPS is still way too expensive for some packages.

Just yesterday I shipped a 9lb, 13" tall box from California to Indiana. The recipient demanded a tracking number, as most people do nowadays. The cheapest tracked rate I could get from the Post Office was $39. I sent it via FedEx for $16.20.

That said, I used to use UPS for everything, and the Priority Flat Rate boxes brought me back to the USPS for more than half the stuff I ship. Not worrying about weight is great.

[Abin Sur]

87. I assume you sent it by Priority Mail

Had you sent it by Parcel Post with delivery confirmation instead, the rate for a package with a weight of 9 lbs and a maximum dimension of 13" from CA to IN would have been $15.27.

[Xithras]

88. Parcel Post? No thanks.

The USPS merely claims that Parcel Post "should" arrive in 2-9 days, but offer no guarantees. Do a bit of Googling, and you'll find that items routinely take two weeks, and that the USPS won't even look into missing Parcel Post packages until 14 days after their ship date.

On top of that, USPS doesn't offer real tracking on Parcel Post items. Tracking numbers have been a standard requirement for online transactions for the past decade. Try to tell someone that you shipped them a non-tracked package via Parcel Post, and that it will be there in "five to nine days, but maybe 14", and you'll see your money yanked in no time. Then they'll have your package AND your money. Have you ever tried to use EBay's dispute resolution process without a tracking number or for parcel post shipments? They won't even talk to you. The buyer merely has to say "I never got it", and they close your case.

The USPS still likes to insist that package tracking is some kind of advanced feature that should only be available on its more expensive options. That's why their cheapest fully tracked option is more than DOUBLE the cost of the cheapest tracked UPS or FedEx options. For some strange reason, they refuse to join the rest of the world and simply offer tracking on everything. The only thing they offer on Parcel Post packages is a delivery status "In Transit/Delivered", and even that is only available if you spend extra money for confirmation.

FedEx offers tracked four business-day parcel shipping for the same price as USPS parcel post, and it includes tracking at no extra cost. I KNOW it will be there by the end of the fourth business day, and I can check its status and progress at any point in the delivery process. In fact, every option that UPS and FedEx offers includes package tracking at no extra charge, along with guaranteed delivery times.

[Abin Sur]

89. There are other options

I'm not sure why you think parcel post can't have a tracking number...you can add Delivery Confirmation (which has a 20 digit tracking number) for $0.80.

I'm also not sure exactly what you mean by "real tracking"; you can add Signature Confirmation or a Return Receipt for Merchandise to Parcel Post, just as you can to Priority Mail.

As for the speed of Parcel Post, I've mailed thousands of items by Parcel Post or Media Mail (I've been on Ebay for over 10 years), and a delivery time of about 6 to 7 days is typical when going more than a couple states away.

[Xithras]

93. What I meant....

With USPS Parcel Post tracking, you basically have delivery confirmation. It won't tell you where your package is in the transit process or when it's going to show up. You just get that annoying "In Transit" message, while your package vanishes into the USPS ether. This is a HUGE problem, since they also can't tell you HOW LONG it will take to deliver. If the recipient has no way to know when it's going to show up, they can't arrange to have someone sign for it. That means they'll probably get a yellow sticker on their door and be force to travel to the post office to pick it up. That also means that there's no way to determine whether a package is making progress, or has been lost until TWO WEEKS after the ship date. Few buyers will wait that long.

With Fedex, I can tell you that my package rolled out of Sacramento at 8:05PM last night, and is currently in the back of a truck heading to the midwest. My buyer knows exactly when it will show up on his doorstep, so he'll have someone there to sign for it. And if FedEx can't get it delivered in four days? I get a refund on my shipping costs. It gets there in four days, or it costs me nothing.

Like you, though, I've mailed numerous things via Parcel Post over the years. They usually get there in 5-7 days, but there's no way to know which package will be the exception. You're simply hoping that it will be fast. I stopped using them many, many years ago when a package was put on the wrong truck. It wouldn't have been a problem if they'd corrected it quickly, but the package ended up taking ~20 days to arrive. At that point I had an furious customer, Paypal yanking funds from my account, and public posts smearing my business reputation (FWIW, I collect and trade antique computer parts on the side...need an Apple IIe floppy drive, or an MFM hard drive?).

Their package model may have worked 40 years ago, but expectations are higher now. We want to know what's happening with our packages, exactly when they will arrive, and we want them delivered with reasonable rates. I've never heard a single valid reason offered as to why the USPS couldn't offer the same service quality as the private carriers. It's not that hard to barcode a box and track it in a computer. If the USPS won't do it, they can't really complain when people take their business to their competition who DOES.

[Abin Sur]

94. I think your info about USPS is a bit out of date.

As you said, you haven't used them for many, many years. Packages (parcel post included) are now scanned at a number of points along the way, and you can follow your package all the way to its destination. I'm looking at the tracking info on the last package I sold on Ebay right now; it has a total of 7 scans, including such information as when and where it was sorted at various facilities, when it arrived at the delivery station, when it left on the truck, and when it was delivered. It took 4 days to go from the Mountain West to the East Coast. This was Media Mail, which if anything is usually a bit slower than Parcel Post. It's also a bargain compared to UPS...a 10 pound package with confirmation for only $6.23.

That having been said, UPS has its advantages. I believe they have guaranteed delivery times for all their packages (although the cost of providing that service is certainly built into their price structure).

[BobbyBoring]

64. This could be part of their problem

http://www.uspsoig.gov/foia_files/FF-AR-09-211.pdf

I read somewhere the the USPS was buying all these houses for employees that were moving. I wish I could find the article.

[hunter]

73. Fuel Costs? Anyone?

Same as everything else, but no, we gotta blame our workers, politicians, managers, unions, damned near anyone else, rather than face the fact that we've burned up all the cheap oil in a frivolous century long joyride of illusory economic "growth."

Certainly, the oil companies are adding to the hurt with their windfall profits, but even if we legislate those profits away it's simply becoming more difficult and expensive to suck oil out of the ground.

[WatsonT]

75. Ouch

[upi402]

79. I love the USPS and use them all I can. n/t

[DCBob]

84. Of course.. it is costly shipping and handling billions of pieces of junk mail every day...

of which 99% is thrown away without even being looked at. What a colossal waste of time, money and effort.