Poop to power in five minutes.

[The Backlash Cometh]

Orlando breakthrough destroys sewage, produces power

Orlando officials think they've perfected a technology that has flummoxed scientists for decades — one they hope will be used worldwide to turn sewage into electricity and earn the city tens of millions of dollars in royalties.

If city officials and their private-industry partners are right, it could be the biggest thing in sewage treatment since the flush toilet.

"We call it poop to power in five minutes," said project consultant Roy Pelletier.

While the five-year, $8.5 million project has drawn little attention locally, a small, experimental test plant off busy Alafaya Trail near the University of Central Florida has drawn visitors from Mexico, Rio de Janeiro, Abu Dhabi, Canada, Europe and elsewhere in recent weeks.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-sludge-project-orlando-20110506,0,4238078.story

[panader0]

1. Power to the poople!

[The Backlash Cometh]

2. Central Florida is so full of shit, we'll have an unlimited resource!

[raccoon]

33. Thanks for a good laugh! nt

[Blue-Jay]

38. Orlando is Speaking Poop To Power!!!

[KittyWampus]

3. Waste to energy is logical and works.

[Ian David]

4. Here's the guy who invented it...

[Ian David]

5. Too bad Florida is trying to pass a law making it legal to spray it on food crops. n/t

[The Backlash Cometh]

6. You're kidding, right?

[Ian David]

10. Florida House Approves Use of Human Waste To Treat Crops For Human Consumption

Florida House Approves Use of Human Waste To Treat Crops For Human Consumption

Some Chinese may be steaming eggs in urine but Florida is about to grow its crops in such waste. After a heavy lobbying effort by industry, Florida is about to rescind a ban on the use of human waste to treat crops. Soon more than 90 companies will be pumping waste from about 100,000 septic tanks on to their fields — an estimated 40 million gallons treated with lime.

Only last year, the last year, the legislature banned the use of such waste under the strong advice of public health experts. When “land application” was used, it was destroying not only Florida’s waterways but harming eco-tourism.

Now, companies have succeeded in reviving “land application” starting in 2016 in the House. HB 1479, which lifts the ban, passed by a one-sided vote of 89-25.

More:
http://jonathanturley.org/2011/05/06/florida-house-approves-use-of-human-waste-to-treat-crops-for-human-consumption/

[blaze]

11. Is there a missing link?

Is this happening in conjunction with the new treatment system?

[The Backlash Cometh]

12. Is this available from a non liberal source?

[Ian David]

13. Yes, it is. And it turns out that the non-liberal source agrees, because facts have a Liberal bias.

Bill would reverse ban on spraying sewage on farmland
By Craig Pittman, Times Staff Writer
In Print: Friday, May 6, 2011

Every year, more than 90 companies across Florida pump the waste from about 100,000 septic tanks. Where does it all end up? State officials estimate 40 million gallons of it is treated with lime and then sprayed on farmers' fields as fertilizer.

But the septic tank waste is a potential wellspring of disease and can lead to water pollution and toxic algae blooms. So last year, the Legislature voted to ban the practice known as "land application" starting in 2016, and in the meantime ordered state health officials to look for alternatives.

This year, though, water pollution and the spread of disease are far less of a political concern, and the probusiness Legislature is poised to repeal the ban before it even takes effect.

The House passed HB 1479, which lifts the ban, by a vote of 89-25 on Monday despite strong opposition from environmental groups such as Audubon of Florida.

More:
http://www.tampabay.com/news/environment/water/bill-would-reverse-ban-on-spraying-sewage-on-farmland/1168004



HB 1479: Land Application of Septage
Track This Bill
GENERAL BILL by Coley; (CO-INTRODUCER) Williams, T.
Land Application of Septage; Terminates future imposition of prohibition of land application of septage from onsite sewage treatment & disposal systems.
EFFECTIVE DATE: July 1, 2011
http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2011/1479


Bill would reverse ban on spraying sewage on farmland
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4841823

[demwing]

29. Right, because we know how unreliable "liberal" sources are

I mean, what were you thinking?

[Dappleganger]

42. Can't speak for that person,

but sometimes I prefer to use a more neutral resource to share with right-wing family members.

[RKP5637]

15. After all, look who helped bring us Bush! n/t

[jmowreader]

18. Someone needs to send these fuckers to Korea for a few days

In Korea they fertilize crops with human shit, and as a result you have to wash your fruit in diluted Clorox before you eat it, make "barley tea" (boil water, add a little barley to it to kill the acrid boiled-water taste) to protect against dysentery, ask the waiters at restaurants where the water used to make ice came from...and this is in Seoul, for God's sake!

Why is the Republican Party attempting to turn the United States into a third-world country?

[jtuck004]

31. Why is the Republican Party attempting to turn the United States into a third-world country?

That's a great question.

These are supposed to be the business people, and if there was demand for their products they would make money hand over fist. Yet they seem to be doing everything they can to undercut any progress, while some publicly state that they would rather have it all fall apart than continue as we are.

What kind of weird, self-destructive behavior is that? I can understand the mind of a terrorist, giving their life for their 'cause, even the great carnage that comes with it. Don't like it, don't think it is sustainable, but I can understand a holy warrior, the true believer, whether the person is a follower of Christianity or Islam.

How anyone can think it is a good strategy to undermine the country they depend on for their survival...spooky, mystical stuff along the lines of the Phoenix rising from the ashes? The U.S. will crumple like wet newspaper, and they think their little life will continue unabated, rise again? I literally cannot comprehend the mind that thinks we will be better off if we don't invest in people and our country, much less work toward its destruction.

[geardaddy]

40. China and Taiwa , too.

You can't eat grapes skins. You have to wash them in salt water and then squeeze out the flesh from the skin.

[geardaddy]

47. Taiwa?

Taiwan, even.

[blaze]

7. Hmmm.... is it really bad?

From the article:

"Within the reactor, supercritical water destroys more than 99 percent of organic matter, including sludge. The process leaves behind inorganic salts, clean water and liquid carbon dioxide."

Just throwing it out there... I don't know nothin' 'bout this stuff.

[KittyWampus]

8. Did you read the article?

[The Backlash Cometh]

14. They didn't say anything about spraying it on crops.

In fact, the opposite really. If it pollute rivers and landfills, doesn't that mean you wouldn't want it sprayed on your food?

What if you could take sewage and get rid of it cleanly and quickly, without dumping it in rivers or landfills — and generate pollution-free electricity at the same time?

[sarcasmo]

9. That is the Shit.

[struggle4progress]

16. People dump lots of stuff down drains, so there's a potential pollution issue with

the residue

Chemical spill in the factory? Rinse it down the floor drain! Don't know what to do with the leftover rat poison? Flush it down the john! All kinds of stuff ends up in the sewers

[The Backlash Cometh]

17. So we need a safe way to collect the poop?

Maybe a brown bin for recyclables?

[struggle4progress]

24. It's just a bit of a double-bind. Organic pesticides and herbicides, and a lot of

pharmaceuticals, will oxidize. But various radio-pharmaceuticals may produce radioisotope concentrations in the sludge-ash, as will various inorganics from sources like paint pigments. Also people dump stuff down the drain they're not supposed to: for example, I found a case once where a chemlab was dumping elemental mercury down the sink

Oxidizing sewage sludge makes a lot of sense from a public health point of view: you'll certainly get rid of all manner of pathogens that way. But it doesn't solve all problems, and one needs to be aware of the new problems it may create

[kristopher]

25. Not really,

I'm pretty sure this is the same process used to destroy nerve gas by the military. I don't imagine the output of a plant like Orlando's is going to just be dumped in the rivers, I'd think it would represent a resource able to be utilized.

[struggle4progress]

26. They say they're going to separate out post-oxidation inorganics for fertilizer. As a first guess,

one might expect the result is crudely comparable to sewage-sludge ash from burning. That material has been studied extensively, because lots of places allow all sorts of stuff into the sewers, as an preferred alternative to dumping into surface-waters. Where I live, plenty of industries have permits to discharge industrial wastes into the sewers. Ordinary homeowners dump plenty of stuff into the sewers too. Go ask your local sewer folk what they find on their screens: you might be surprised I once heard a state regulator describe a partially successful attempt to track, and unsuccessful attempt to retrieve, a sealed cobalt-60 source that entered a sewer line at an industrial site

[kristopher]

27. I don't dispute the contents of sewage at all.

I'm basing my response on a presentation I attended by chemists from DuPont that had been asked by the Army to destroy some VX nerve gas with their supercritical incinerator, after which they wanted to dump the residual into the Delaware River. The audience of about 40 academics specializing in marine sciences seemed to accept that the process was capable of doing what was claimed, however, there was a great deal of skepticism centered around potential for unexpected failure in either the process or during transportation. I suspect those concerns, which seemed to exist at all levels, were sufficient to make it an unacceptable project for DuPont to go forward with in spite of the confidence of their scientists. Even though it was 'statistically' safe, the consequences of failure were simply not acceptable to most.

As to the use for sewage, I'm surprised to see it being suggested frankly, since I didn't think it was close to being a cost effective alternative for waste disposal - even when selling the by-products. People have tried it with couple of inputs that I know of - things like recycling tires into electricity and carbon black. At the time the market for carbon black was what put it into the black (no pun intended), but I don't know what eventually became of it.

So while I don't dispute your assessment of the inputs, I do think that it has the potential for ultimately being a cleaner way of dealing with a lot of our waste problems than most of the solutions out there. The by-products may be toxic, but if they are this could leave us with the most manageable way of dealing with wastes that we can will find.

Do you know of any similar project to provide a template we can look at to inform us about what actually happens in the final mile of the materials such plants output? If not, how would you handle the problems you point out if you were tasked to solve them as best you could for a project that was going to go forward no matter what?

[struggle4progress]

44. Then I'm not sure why you were arguing in #25 about what I said in #16

[kristopher]

46. I think it exaggerates the significance of the "potential pollution issue"

Read by laypeople in the context of the thread, it is less cautionary and more discouraging. The process has a beneficial effect on the existing process of waste treatment, which also must deal with the unintended toxins. If future systems are prepared for concentrating and sequestering them as part of routine processing, then it is doing a heck of a lot more than we usually do now.

That's why I phrased my reply to you as I did. I'd be interested in talking about how that last stage might best be handled; I don't think it has been worked out yet and it would be the determining factor, wouldn't it?

[jmowreader]

19. I know the perfect test sites for it

Put one in the Florida governor's mansion and another in the Wisconsin governor's mansion. Rick Scott and Scott Walker are so full of shit we should be able to end the energy crisis with those two installations alone!

[The Backlash Cometh]

21. The Republicans will probably come up with a private business to

go door to door collecting the remains of the day.

[Hardrada]

22. This actually was an enterprise in 19th Century London.

[Tyrs WolfDaemon]

20. Does this mean that Rush and the likes actually have a use in the world?

We can just hook them up and let them spout off all day and perhaps that would solve our energy problems...

[blaze]

23. Backlash... did your thread get hijacked or

are these related issues?

Seems your good news got trashed... but I'm not sure they're connected.

[The Backlash Cometh]

32. If it's a good idea, we'll see it pop up again.

[demwing]

36. True

shit has a way of staying afloat

[StarsInHerHair]

28. AHA! THIS is what I've been talking about! Using our sewage to make electricity

I think it would work. Think about it, no more sewage spills into our rivers or lakes or streams or shellfish beds. Something that won't run out, hehe, people will always haave to poop. what is left after it's burned shouldn't be germy, if they're heating it up to high temps, it'd kill the germs, yes?

[demwing]

30. What happens when shit becomes a commodity?

instead of getting charged for sewage, you'll get paid for it. Eventually though, foods will be "composed" so as to produce the greatest amount of stool possible. Nutrition will become a cost that needs to be cut, and waste will become a manufactured, and profitable product.

[Zorra]

34. Shit has been a commodity for many years.

The economy of DC is totally dependent on it.

[demwing]

35. There will have to be a Shit Czar

And the primary qualification would be "Does this person know shit?" If they don't know shit, they don't get the job.

If you know shit, fine, but a lot of people know a lot of shit. Doubtless there will be a whole process where the shit will be pressurized, pumped from one point to another, and then incinerated.

So of course, other qualifications will include:

"Have you ever burned any shit like this?"

"Are you physically capable of pumping this shit?"

and obviously

"How well can you handle this shit under pressure?"

[Sentath]

45. Ohhhh (light dawning) This is cool

They're using supercritical water + Oxygen to 'burn' it in a liquid state.

Article says that it destroys more than 99% of all organic matter. I don't want to think about something that can live with only 1% of its molecules intact.

[felix_numinous]

37. Fire up the afterburners!

We should get uh, behind this technology. Way to go--for a green future!!

[Roland99]

39. I was just reading this. Too cool!

[Shagbark Hickory]

41. Only moments away from a nuke plant too.

[kentauros]

43. While I'm pretty sure they will sell the liquid CO2,

seems to me this is a perfect opportunity and technology to help sequester CO2. The story didn't give percentages, so I don't know how much is produced.