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What does it do to one human being to celebrate the killing of another human being?

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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 12:55 PM
Original message
What does it do to one human being to celebrate the killing of another human being?
Bin Laden was buried at sea, presumably so that there will be no burial site, no country that owns him, no place on Earth could be associated with him ever after. The sea gets him, being the only place capacious enough to take on the burden. There is dignity in having done it this way. Not dignity for him, but dignity for us. It is understandable that people want to celebrate the death of a man who scared us, who was the author of a traumatizing act of violence, who plotted the deaths of thousands and dreamed of the deaths of thousands upon thousands more. But I am not sure that celebrating death ever does anything very good for the one who celebrates.

I shuddered for the souls of the men at Saddam Hussein's execution. The footage is, now, widely available on the Internet. It was captured surreptitiously on a cell phone video camera. Saddam is brought into a dingy room in what looks like a basement. He is bustled toward a noose and begins praying. Some of the people standing below begin to shout. They are calling out, "Muqtada," in reference to Muqtada al-Sadr, the Shia religious and political leader. Saddam says the name Muqtada back to them and then asks, "Do you call this courage?" Another person yells at Saddam to go to hell. He replies, "the hell that is Iraq?" Then he goes back to praying. All of a sudden, the trap door beneath Saddam opens and he plummets. He is gone. It is impossible to watch that footage without feeling that Saddam stole his dignity back in those final moments. The people in the room gave Saddam the opportunity to do it. They gave him a moment to be the honorable one in death. It lessened those men, those witnesses. They became small in the face of the ultimate thing, the death of a human being.

The last few days have seen a lot of talk about whether or not it is appropriate to celebrate the killing of Osama bin Laden. I would phrase the question in a different way. What does it do to one human being to celebrate the killing of another human being, whatever the circumstances? What happens inside you, how does it make you feel? Is that something you want to feel? Is it a way you want to be? I think of the witnesses at Saddam Hussein's funeral, the ones who cried out. I imagine them walking out into the sunlight of the bright day outside and feeling exposed, thinned out, cheated of the euphoria they had hoped to feel. Maybe they wished, in retrospect, that they would have had the strength to stay silent and serious for the final act of a long tragedy in which no one emerged unscathed.

The gently smiling face of Osama bin Laden will be an image that stays with us for a long time, anyway. It was proper to let go of it, down into the ocean's depths. It will be an accomplishment just to let it go. • 4 May 2011

the rest:
http://www.thesmartset.com/article/article05041101.aspx
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. Introspection-provoking, and well-written.
Here is a quote I got today. I think it fits.

Working for Peace Close to Home

If we are to work for unity and peace in the world, we must begin at home. How can we help to make peace in distant countries if we are waging wars at home, with our family or neighbors, at work, at school or in our own particular human community? Working for peace in distant places can be a way of running away from ourselves and refusing to look at what is broken within us and around us. Working for peace means welcoming the people close to us, those who annoy us or disagree with us and seem to put us down, people who provoke anguish in us. It means neither judging nor condemning these people because, like us, they are human beings who want life and peace but also have their brokenness. They are not first and foremost enemies, but brothers and sisters in humanity, wounded like ourselves.
- Jean Vanier, Our Journey Home, p. 205
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thank you -
Well said. In my opinion, those of us who celebrate the death of any human - as evil as that human may be, are diminished. While I will admit to feeling a satisfaction that this particular human will no longer be able to take his own satisfaction in the killing of one more person, and will not shed a tear over his death - I cannot, and will not "celebrate". The fist pumping jubilation of the last week was, to me, distressing.
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
3. "The gently smiling face of Osama bin Laden", who ordered the cold blooded killing of
3,000 men, women, children. Mothers, Fathers, Brothers, Sisters, Sons, Daughters.

Yeah, fuck him.

Gently smiling face my fucking ass.
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FLPanhandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
4. Physiologically, celebrating releases endorphins in your body
Which lead to a feeling of well being and a host of other beneficial side effects in humans.

As for "souls", since they are make believe, the impact of celebrating the end of OBL would have no effect on it at all.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
5. Some will completely miss the point.
I will rec this back UP to +4.

"As crowds cheering bin Laden's demise last night illustrated, revenge is a natural reaction. But a natural impulse isn’t necessarily a good one. Our key religious scriptures and greatest political leaders warn us against this dark desire. Indeed, we are at our most human when resisting it."

<snip>

"There is something deeply wrong with this picture. By celebrating death, even of someone as evil as bin Laden, we let our worst impulses trump what Abraham Lincoln called “the better angels of our nature.” We look petty, juvenile, and small. And we should all be worried about that."


http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opinion/2011/0502/Celebrating-Osama-bin-Laden-s-death-is-anti-American-and-not-very-biblical


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LatteLibertine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
6. I understand the points being made
Edited on Sun May-08-11 03:08 PM by LatteLibertine
On a side note, it often troubles me at how easily we embrace the killing of others as long as it's approved of or ordered by the ruling class.

Murderers are often called monsters, and if we kill hundreds of men at the behest of our government in another nation we're labelled heroes.

I recognize some wars need to be fought, and that people who decide to murder us when left to their own devices need to be dealt with.

Still it troubles me at how easily we often surrender our moral ground when a person with authority directs us to do so.

Anyone remember that shock test they did on people? Many would deliver what they believed was a potentially deadly shock to another when receiving approval and direction from an authority figure. Some stood up to the authority figure and they were a distinct minority. The actor who was playing the person receiving the fake shocks would howl and beg them not to proceed. It made little difference.


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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. "how easily we often surrender our moral ground when a person with authority directs us to do so."
Amen.

Its very Middle School.
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
7. K&R. This is well put.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
8. I am not celebrating his killing. I am glad he is dead though. There is a difference between the 2
Celebrating his killing vs being glad he is dead.
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alphafemale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
9. "gently smiling face" Are You Fucking Kidding Me?!!!?? He wasn't a fucking CAREBEAR!
:grr:

There was not one fucking gentle thing about murderous cretin.

Guess what?

He's got a big, fucking smile in his rotting fucking fish food forehead now.

GOOD!

......:woohoo:......
Osama's Watery Grave
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
10. well worth reading
thanks
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Terra Alta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
12. I'm not celebrating his death
but I'm not mourning him, either. He was an evil man who needed to be dealt with. While I would have preferred we'd taken him alive, a dead bin Laden is better than no bin Laden.
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
13. K&R
but sadly it did not move the count up. Thank you.
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S_E_Fudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
14. There has got to be more to being a human being...
Than simply breathing...there must be some moral center. Some sense of compassion for others.

If you ask me Osama bin laden does (sorry...did) not qualify....
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
15. Bin Laden being killed by a US soldier makes me feel happy.
Edited on Sun May-08-11 03:36 PM by bluestate10
That event does not remove it, but does erase the deep sadness and anger that I felt watching people of the World Trade Centers on 9/11 make a decision on whether they would be consumed by flames or become nothing more than crushed bones and flesh by jumping to their death. bin Laden's death erases the pain of my thinking of how those people in the WTC came to their decisions on 9/11, desperately looking for a way down to safety until they realized there was no way down. Fuck bin Laden, fuck bin Laden's smile, may sea creatures enjoy the flesh of the bastard. I am looking forward to when we hear of the death of his number 2.
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alphafemale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I'm very glad the SEAL Team did their job as they were trained.
I'm glad Obama did not have to make a horrendous phone call to some mother or wife.

If something had gone wrong those jihad fucks would have joyfully hacked those young mens' heads off with a saw blade and filmed it. They would have beamed it straight to the soldiers' childrens' email if they could. Anyone who doubts this is a fool.

Hesitating while considering mercy for those who don't deserve is apt to get you and those around you killed.

May Jesus have mercy on him. Or maybe Jesus would also join in the fun.

"Hey, Jesus? Would you raise this shithole from the dead so we can kill him a few thousand more times? Thanks, you're awesome!"

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