Texas. And DU.

[kentauros]

Mention the word "Texas" around here and for many members it brings the not so pleasant visions of oil and Bushies dancing in their heads. That and the single-minded emotion of pure, unadulterated hate.

It matters not that Texas spawned the likes of Molly Ivins, Barbara Jordan, Lloyd Bentsen, Jim Hightower and Bill Hicks to mention only a few. No, we are to be forever reviled because of, first and foremost, George Walker Bush, and sometimes his resident family. Of course, the fellow-hated include such rightfully despised individuals as Tom Delay, John Cornyn, and the current Governor L'Idiot, Rick "Goodhair" Perry. Their actions alone, or even their mere existence in this world, are often enough to keep us on Du's Most Hated list.

The Texas SBOE (State Board of Education) is another in a seemingly "long" list of people and/or institutions to be hated, as their influence doesn't stop at the state borders. Thanks to a complicit publishing industry, our narrow-minded republicans dictate their revisionist concept of the world into school textbooks for many states outside of our own. They should be despised and countered at every opportunity.

Our politics anger many, not to mention those of us in this state that have to put up with the mindlessness. However, I don't really expect to see such mindlessness directed toward all of the people of Texas for the actions of a few. And yet . . . and yet, that's exactly what happens on DU at the drop of a ten-gallon hat, more or less.

This rant isn't for those of you that like, or even love, us. I thank you for keeping a lucid mind about you and not falling prey to the worst of our emotions, the no-mind that is hate. Anger is expected and warranted. But I see no reason to hate anyone, other than the politicians due that sentiment directly. Try to remember that they were not elected in a landslide; that plenty voted against them. That is, all of us Texas Liberals.

While I do expect the haters to show up in droves, I am actually welcoming them to this thread. I want to know all of your reasons for the constant broad brushes. Why are all Texans (or perhaps, the entire State of Texas) to blame for the likes of Bush? Of Tom Delay? Of Rick Perry? What is it about us, our land, our beautiful state, that is so heinous to you and so very unworthy of your good thoughts, much less your love?

And perhaps someone out there can answer this: Why is it when Texas is being put under the thumb of legislation almost exactly the same as that going on in Wisconsin, that we don't seem to warrant the recognition that we also need help in fighting the republicans? Where are all the crowds of teachers and union-organizers from out of state ready to fight to the end for the people of Texas? Is it just a northern thing? Because if the latter, then that's hardly in line with the sentiment and definition of "solidarity".

I do ask that my fellow Texas-DU members help back me up on some of this as I'm not a lawyer, I don't have a degree in poli-sci, I've never held office, and I don't read every single bit of news that's out there. But I do observe what I find is an attitude not worthy of my fellow Liberals, and more appropriate to the pages of FR and other such bastions of republicanism. We're supposed to be working together for the good of all, and not falling victim to "divide and conquer". Is that really so difficult to accomplish around here?

We're not your enemy. Please stop treating us like the only good Texan is a figment of the Liberal Mind.

[HopeHoops]

1. Why would a liberal live in Texas?

:shrug:

Nobody there even knows how to dance! To be fair, I never found a place that played any music worth dancing to anyway. The silly two-step thing on a roller rink floor just made me laugh.

[hobbit709]

6. Then you were in the wrong place.

As far as great music, you obviously haven't paid attention.

[Curmudgeoness]

12. Ever heard of Austin? nt

[tammywammy]

18. I grew up here

My entire family, including my 90 year old grandfather lives here.

I like it here.

[Texasgal]

37. Why wouldn't I?

Austin is a GREAT place! I'm a native and would never think of moving.

We have a ton of green spaces, beautiful lakes and an economy that's kicking ass. Weather is pretty darn near perfect!

Can you tell me again why I should move?

[Texasgal]

40. Must also mention that Austin

Is the MUSIC CAPITAL of the world and holds the largest music convention in the US.

But hey, you've never heard good music. You've never been to Austin.

[cherokeeprogressive]

62. Guess you've never been to Sixth Street. n/t

[Maru Kitteh]

72. Jeezuz. I didn't know we were required to live in approved liberal zones.

And I'm not even from Texas. What a rude and irregular thing to say.

[Baby Bear]

78. Born There, but it was solid democrat back then.

And there are the graves of the ancestors, too. Mustn't forget about them.

[Ilsa]

80. I wish I could leave, but I can't. I help take care of my 84 yo WWII father

and hubby's mom is getting up in age also. It's hard to leave people you love who don't want to go.

[WolverineDG]

92. Silly two step thing

:eyes:

Even metal & hip hop fans where I grew up knew how to two step. Gave you an excuse to hold your girl/boyfriend real close without the adults gettin' all riled up. ;) Not to mention that the Cotton Eyed Joe gave you an excuse to yell "BULL SHIT" in the gym.

Sorry that you weren't creative enough to figure that out.

dg

[MicaelS]

103. If you were born here and grew up here, that's why. AND

Lots of people move here because housing prices are low, compared to the rest of the country.

[Catherine Vincent]

112. Some of us are born and raised here doofus. nt

[Jakes Progress]

128. Why would you log onto DU?

You obviously lack taste, a sense of reality, and manners. Your prejudice makes your politics suspect also.

[kalli007]

141. This liberal lives in Texas because

the rest of my family does! I've always had pipe dreams of moving somewhere like Seattle, Portland, or the East Coast.....but I can't imagine not being able to jump in the car to see my fam!

[thanks_imjustlurking]

143. Maybe some of us are here

for reasons that seemed good at the time, or were beyond our control, and cannot afford to move.

But even if we chose to be here and could afford to move, there is no reason for the broad-brush attacks.

Many thanks to the OP.

[keroro gunsou]

157. one word:

BBQ. That is all.

(ok i know there is more, but that would be a big draw for at any rate.... plus i've got family in dallas/colleyville area)

[kentauros]

172. Robb Walsh wrote a book for you

Formerly the food critic of The Houston Press, he wrote a book about BBQ that you might want to check out:

Legends of Texas Barbecue Cookbook: Recipes and Recollections from the Pit Bosses

:hi:

[Liberal In Texas]

167. Well, the weather here is probably better than wherever you are.

Currently its mostly sunny and 81°. I got sick of snow-shoveling and summers that lasted about 3 days.

Our county is turning bluer and bluer, as are most of the large population areas. Like the rest of the country we have the rubes in the burbs and the rural areas who are Fox-brainwashed that make it hard to get progressives elected. And like the rest of the country we have to fight the deep pockets of the wealthy that pour money into elections here.

It's a diverse state with lots of different things to do and the number of liberals would probably surprise you.

[TxVietVet]

237. Yep. I love that Texas weather after 22 years in the upper Midwest.

I've still got a bunch of winter clothes that's going to Goodwill soon.

I'll cool off in that 100 degree heat a lot easier than I warmed up in that 10 degree weather.

[jpak]

180. Austin is way cool and the two-step is a very erotic dance

If you ever tried it with a fine Texas gal

yup

[Gman]

181. Well, we were born here and would appreciate it if people from up north

would quit coming here. Thank you very much. My family on all sides has been here over 150 years. We all hope you don't come.

[kentauros]

185. !!!

:rofl:

Great post! :D :thumbsup:

[Bucky]

213. I was born in New Orleans but my family moved to Texas when I was 5

Like most Texans, I welcome new immigrants to Texas. It's a beautiful state with a lot of fucked up politicians.

[reggie the dog]

191. because austin has an excellent music scene

because they are born there, have family and friends there, and have work so have no incentive to leave.

they like the weather

they hope to smoke a joint with willie nelson

[reggie the dog]

192. because pantera kicks ass and you hope to run into

phil anselmo at the bar?

because you really always wanted to live in the city the movie dazed and confused was set in.

[SammyWinstonJack]

207. -1

:silly:

[Bucky]

212. I grew up here. It's my home. Why must you be so shallow?

[Jakes Progress]

227. Because then we don't have to live near you.

[Curmudgeoness]

2. And don't forget Ann Richards, governor for a lot of the time

I lived there. I keep thinking of going back there to live, there are great people in Texas (as well as great barbecue). One day I may still get back. And I will not be ashamed to live there.

[Bunny]

3. I could probably live in TX, too.

It doesn't hurt that the greatest guy ever also lives there. :loveya:

[Curmudgeoness]

11. If the greatest guy ever lives there, you had better get your butt to TX.

Not many greatest guys ever out there. Actually damned few.

Really, Texas can be a great place to live, depending on where you are.

[Mariana]

117. Yeah, that's how I landed here.

The greatest guy ever lived here and I decided I had to go where he was. For part of the time since then we lived in Austin, and that was pretty cool. Now we live in Tarrant County and I can't wait to get out. The greatest guy ever agrees and we're planning our escape for this summer. It was worth it, but Texas was different then in a lot of ways - I came before Bush was governor. Things have changed for the worse here, certainly.

[gateley]

14. Anne Richards came to my mind, too. Maybe the OP is too young. :-)

[kentauros]

26. Actually, I'm fifty

;)

When I wrote that post (a few days ago because I wanted to have some time to mull and edit) I named the ones I thought of first, without getting into a long list of Famous Texans. I should have added Willie Nelson, too, but didn't think of him until later. I loved Ann Richards, as well as Jim Hightower as Ag Commissioner. When Perry took over his position, all the good stuff got either put on hold or removed. Perry was put in place by the agriculture industry.

Well, my dinner just arrived, so I'll leave this thread to y'all. Keep it hummin'! :D

[PassingFair]

20. There ARE great people in Texas. But do you deny that they are vastly outnumbered?

We have our share of jerks in Michigan, too.

George Wallace won a primary here.

But most of them are cautious about spewing
their opinions in public.

Which is nice!

[WatsonT]

22. Interesting

would you say the same about say, Iran?

"Sure there are some good muslims in Iran, but do you deny that they are vastly outnumbered?"

How long you suppose that quote would last?

[Kurovski]

166. False equivalence, on your part. it seems to be mostly the way you argue.

Iran can talk about Iran anyway Iran wants. We're Americans speaking about Americans.

You are speaking strictly of religion.

You yourself do the broad-brush that the op decries. Not every argument applies to every single thing in the world. Why not stick to the point and topic at hand? (Again, false equivalency)

And lastly, if you pick on a good friend of mine as Passing Fair is, I'm not going to sit back and let you get away with it, even if she is going to ignore your foolish comment which skirts the edges of flamebait.

I have to run...

[WatsonT]

205. Ah so that's the only difference

it's ok to stereotype, so long as you do it about your neighbors.

You weren't talking about Americans, you were talking about a specific subset of Americans.

Enjoy your bigotry, be sure to never engage anyone from Texas as I hear they spit acid or something.

[PassingFair]

208. My Hero!

I don't really have a problem with any of the
"southern" states, except that they reliably
vote Republican and their politics are infused
with religion.

Even then, I wouldn't care, but when they DO
vote for a "democrat" they send conservative dems to screw up
our chances for progressive legislation.
I've got my problems with vichy New-Dems, too.

Of course, I'm a union loving rust-belter, so I
have my own P.O.V....

My best friend moved to Texas a few years ago, and
she lives in a better integrated community than I do,
and she STILL hears stuff from her neighbors that
offends her sensibilities. A LOT of OVERT racism.

One of my favorite posters on DU, MadFloridian, lives
in a state that (rightfully) gets a lot of flack for
its politics. She actively works toward change in
her state, and never takes offense when Florida is
criticized.

[Kurovski]

209. MadFloridian is one of my favorite posters on DU

I seem to recall that she's also a Howard Dean supporter. :hi:

She's a very hard worker, and you don't see her all over the boards here trashing other Dems and Libs and progs like it was an *AHEM* sport. ;)

[Curmudgeoness]

24. It really does depend on where you are in Texas.

Austin is liberal, Houston is liberal. Those are the two places I know. I lived in Houston and it was a very progressive city. There is a large gay population, neighborhoods are mostly integrated, people from all over the world are welcomed.

I will admit that I have seen some rural areas that were frightening. But not even all of rural Texas is bad.

I think the biggest problem Texas has is the independence that the people who live there exhibit. And that is also not a bad thing all the time.

[w8liftinglady]

46. Getting out the vote in Texas is a challenge.

I am really encouraging my Bilingual friends to get busy,porque es muy importante que los hispanicos voten por los Democraticos.
Just sayin'.

[Texasgal]

54. I find the issue to be the large

open spaces in which people are uneducated about voting.

Texas has a shit load of rural areas. They are hard to get to.

[w8liftinglady]

56. exactly...and no public transportation.

I tried my best to educate Ellis County...I'm moving on to educate Henderson County... not quite as rabidly right-wing religious zealots

[Texasgal]

59. During our Governor race

I headed out to far reaching places. It was apparent that many didn't even KNOW that we were having a governess race! Quite eye opening to say the least!

[Le Taz Hot]

142. If I may,

trying to "educate them" may have been the problem. Although I live in a large city we are surrounded by rural farm land with residents who tend to be more conservative. Every now and again groups from the Bay Area (we refer to them as Bay Areans) come and try to "educate us" too. Needless to say they're met with the same derision they've accorded us. If outsiders would come here first and let US educate THEM as to the local customs and traditions and if they'd take half a second in actually getting to know us, I think they'd meet with more success.

[Synicus Maximus]

75. you do realize George Wallace ran 40 years ago?

[PassingFair]

159. You do realize that those types of voters are still around.

They're the ones who spawned children that called
our female governor "that heifer, Granholm" when
I canvassed.

[UTUSN]

73. & don't forget Ralph YARBOROUGH and LBJ. And all y'all who hate LBJ, nevermind n/t

[WolverineDG]

94. After all, it was LBJ who cost the Democrats the South

what with signing that silly Civil Rights Act & everything.

Damn Texans. :grr:


( :sarcasm: added for the :sarcasm: impaired)

dg

[NCarolinawoman]

245. Yes, and durn that LBJ for giving all those folks medicare...

:sarcasm: of course. ;)

[n2doc]

4. Good post. I suspect many consider Texas a lost cause

Wisconsin, at least, has a Dem Senator and had a Dem Gov. not too long ago. Texas has been solid red since the mid 90's. I would guess that many feel that Texas, like the rest of the southern states, is just too firmly in the grasp of the repubs to be worth fighting for. That doesn't mean that those of you living there are to be forgotten, or belittled. I personally loved visiting Austin, and liked San Antonio, and Galveston. I live in Georgia, which is in just as bad of a shape.

But do realize that the majority of your fellow Texans do vote for complete idiots and scumbags, like Perry, and have done so repeatedly. They are the (political) enemy, as far as I'm concerned.

[1620rock]

13. A lot of bad vibes come out of Texas...

I will admit that I am guilty of "Texas hate". When half the state was in flames I remarked to Miz 1620 that I hoped the whole Goddamned state burned down.

I stand corrected, and I apologize for such a foolish statement. I intend to keep an open mind concerning Texas and Texans in the future.

[callous taoboy]

131. This progressive Texan thanks you for your change of "tude."

[sonias]

173. Thank you, 1620rock!

We can be forgiving. Just don't write Texas off.

:hug:

[Curmudgeoness]

19. Perry won the last election with 55% of the votes.

That means that 45% of the people who voted in Texas did not vote for him. With a population of over 25 million, this means a large number of people did NOT vote for him.

[somone]

74. Kinky Friedman was an idiot

Democrats had a good chance to evict Perry in 2006, and he screwed that up.

[thanks_imjustlurking]

146. Yes, and I'm still mad at Hightower for supporting Kinky for Ag Commissioner.

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=141487801576&topic=13535

That after Kinky saddled us with four more years of Perry.
http://www.perryvsworld.com/item/489

[WolverineDG]

95. And guess when the National Party walked away from Texas

& started using it as its personal ATM? ding ding ding!

dg

[uppityperson]

5. k&r and up to zero.

[gateley]

7. You're right. We jump on those stereotypes and they never are a

true representation of anyone other than those the stereotypes are highlighting. I'm sorry.

[MineralMan]

8. My own personal experience in Texas keep me out of that state.

However, I know there are many good people there. I just don't go there any more, except when absolutely necessary. I did drive through Texas on my move to Minnesota.

[Kip Humphrey]

48. As a born and bred Minnesotan who finds himself in Houston Texas

I can only say I miss the Minnesota of the sixties but hardly recognize its mood these days. As for Texas, and Houston in particular, the only positive I can say is its a good place to work (excepting Austin which truly ROCKS!!!).

[kentauros]

64. You will have a chance to change your mind about Houston

in a couple of weeks, when the Art Car Parade happens (on May 22nd, along Alan Parkway.)

I might also add that if you want to see more of Houston, the good parts, read The Houston Press. They're a liberal paper for the most part, though their physical copy is only published weekly. Go to the link for their online content, especially the blog Hair Balls :D

[thanks_imjustlurking]

148. What on earth is so cool about Austin? I'm in TX and I'm serious.

It beats Houston (except for worse traffic - Houston is actually pretty good in that respect), but that's about all I can say for it from my personal experience. It's just OK, seriously. I'd be happy to be corrected, but I've given it several tries on a day trip basis, and am unimpressed.

[somone]

151. Austin is a nice town that wishes it was Portland

or Charlottesville or Palo Alto

The tap water in Austin is excellent.

[thanks_imjustlurking]

152. That's about what I thought, but I'd still be happy to be corrected, with specifics.

And not festivals, but things you can do on a day-in, day-out basis, especially in the way of crafts (*not* the unfinished-wood-tchotkes kind), music (that starts earlier than 9 or 10 PM and takes place in non-dives), and theatre. And decent restaurants with actual views, of which Houston is woefully short. How Houston got a reputation as a food town I will never understand.

I'm recently discovering that Houston actually has excellent theatre - I just had to get past the Alley, which has not impressed me a great deal so far.

Actually, given the way the world is going, I should be grateful just to have food and a roof over my head. And I am.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

160. Hey thanks Imjustlurking:

You want quality in the performing arts, check out the symphony and the opera. Both first rate!
At the opera they put the words up over the stage in english, so you can read them while they are singing and know what's going on. That opened up a whole new world for me.

Check out TBH, Talento Bilingue de Houston. They do plays in Spanish/English combined. I appeared in a couple of productions there a few years ago.


Also, check out Avant Garden, on Montrose near Taft. Formerly known as Helios and run by Mariana. I appeared in a play in their backyard as well. Mariana's husband, Nestor Topchy, is a very talented artist. he has his own webpage www.nestortopchy.com

[w8liftinglady]

161. Thanks for sharing that... Topchy is VERY talented!

[thanks_imjustlurking]

217. I know they are good, but that's not the kind of music I like.

I'll check out the other suggestions - thank you very much.

Which leads me to wonder how far they are from anything else... One of the things I dislike about Houston is how things are spread out. Even in the "theatre district," there's very little to do besides go to said theatre. And Stages! Great theatre, nowhere to eat within walking distance.

[kentauros]

175. Since when is "a decent view" a criteria for great food?

I hear New York City has some top restaurants, good enough to be seen on national TV. But I never hear them speak of the view. Yet, they're still lauded as being great places to eat.

San Diego probably does has some great views, but I don't think I've ever heard that as a criteria for the quality of food presented. Nor is it considered a criteria here.

Next time you're in Houston (unless you're already here; I can't quite tell from your post) look up the restaurant section of The Houston Press. You may be surprised to learn just why we are considered a food town by those that know food ;)

[thanks_imjustlurking]

216. No, the view does not affect the food,

but Houston has virtually no restaurants with decent food and service that also have a view. Actually, it has almost no decent restaurants, period. I have been to restaurants that got good reviews on a national level and have been unimpressed. There is almost no such thing as good service in Houston. The best you can get is what I refer to as "well meaning and semi-professional."

Oh, I do have "San Diego" in my profile, don't I? Wishful thinking, although I've given up thoughts of going back for retirement after Fukushima - too close to San Onofre. Unless they shut it down and make it safe, which is doubtful.

And the other thing about Houston is that it's so spread out. After a number of trips to ballyhooed restaurants that turned out to be a) disappointing and b) the only thing to do within walking distance, I've pretty much given up. It doesn't help that we prefer lunch on Saturdays and Sundays and a lot of places here aren't open for that. Maybe there are a few good ones that we've never been to because we don't do Friday and Saturday nights.

[octothorpe]

176. lol @ wishes it was Portland.

[Paladin]

219. I Grew Up In Austin---And I'm Similarly Unimpressed.

Austin isn't nearly as nice a town now as it was in the past---now that everybody who wanted a piece of "The Austin Experience" seems to have moved there. The town is bursting at the seams, traffic is an abomination (I never in a million years would have thought that Houston traffic would be better than Austin's, but it is), the city's infrastructure is decades behind its population's demands, and real estate prices are inflated to the point of insanity. Cap it all off with the city's HUGE superiority complex---a snotty attitude caused in no small part because of people believing the bullshit notion that Austin is the only decent place to live in Texas---and you can see why I'm never going to live there again.....

[thanks_imjustlurking]

248. That is just about what I thought.

Well, at least it makes me feel better about Houston. Houston does have some good things, but they are *so* spread out. Drive half an hour to do something that takes an hour, then drive half an hour back because there's nothing else in walking distance to do. They keep saying they're going to make downtown a "destination," but it hasn't happened yet. At least downtown doesn't stink so much anymore.

[WatsonT]

9. Stereotyping is acceptable here

you just have to be careful about the group you pick to denigrate.

[thanks_imjustlurking]

149. Yep. nt

[Kurovski]

165. Sometimes trolls do a pretty good job of avoiding acting like typical DU trolls

They've had ten years to perfect their hobby/avocation.

I don't like broad-brush self immolation. I think it's counter-productive.

The OP is not broad brush, yet still manages some legit criticism.

[MuseRider]

10. Same reason they hate the South or

Kansas where I am or other states...Utah, Arizona to name a few. We are among those who are different than we are and continually told we should just leave. To where we are all alike or of like mind? Not me.

Don't worry, you are not alone. Many of us hear it. It is one of the many things that surprise me about Democrats, oddly many think they are better than those of us who choose to live in red states. I prefer living where I do. I don't want to live where everyone agrees with me or is like me. My family helped make this a free state and I am staying put but the silliness does goes on and it surely gets tiresome.

I have known many good people from Texas, I had family there for most of my life. Brush it off and continue. Stupidity is not only the realm of the right. It can be found everywhere.

[Canuckistanian]

15. I don't view Texas as the worst, far from it

There's still Austin. And the musicians from Texas are first-rate.

It's a bastion of libertarianism, but that's not all bad.

What frightens me are the states of Arizona, Oklahoma and Florida. That's where the hard-core crazies are.

Right now, everyone is focusing on the northern states - MI and WI. But ignoring the absolute destruction that's already occurred in the South.

Texas will survive. There's an indescribable decency there that the other "crazy" states don't have.

[reggie the dog]

198. even those states have plenty of libearals

[TNLib]

16. Don't forget Bill Moyer

Some of the best Liberals are from Texas!

[kentauros]

66. I didn't!

I just couldn't list them all, or it would have read like Wikipedia :P

And I agree on how we've provided some of the best liberals. Remember his famous quote in the VP debates with Dan Quayle in '88? I had to look this up to get it verbatim, but it's still unforgettable!

Bentsen was responsible for one of the most memorable moments of the campaign during his televised debate with Republican vice presidential nominee Dan Quayle. Quayle stated that he had as much political experience as John F. Kennedy had when he ran for the presidency. Bentsen retorted, "Senator, I served with Jack Kennedy. I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy." Quayle responded by saying, "That was really uncalled for, Senator." Bentsen responded, "You're the one that was making the comparison, Senator."

:rofl:

[Enthusiast]

135. Thanks for reminding us.

I watched that little incident live. The look on Quayle's face was priceless.

[1monster]

17. I hear you. But Florida always comes in for the same garbage. "Floriduh."

Those who say and believe things like that simply don't know that Florida was a pioneer of "government in the sunshine" and has those sunshine provisions in the state constitution. You can be sure if they were not in the Constitution, we would not have the Sunshine Provisions today.

But be honest. Texas has been the butt of jokes since long before GWB. I have an ancient book of American poems that I bought in my (very) early teens. And that poem was old then.

HELL IN TEXAS (I'm sure it is all in fun! :evilgrin:)

The devil, we're told, in hell was chained,
And a thousand years he there remained,
And he never complained, nor did he groan,
But determined to start a hell of his own
Where he could torment the souls of men
Without being chained to a prison pen.

So he asked the Lord if He had on hand
Anything left when He made the land.
The Lord said, "Yes, I had plenty on hand,
But I left it down on the Rio Grande.
The fact is old boy, the stuff is so poor,
I don't think you could use it in hell any more."

But the devil went down to look at the truck,
And said if it came as a gift, he was stuck;
For after examining it careful and well
He concluded the place was too dry for hell.
So in order to get it off His hands
God promised the devil to water the lands.

For he had some water, or rather some dregs,
A regular cathartic that smelt like bad eggs.
Hence the deal was closed and the deed was given,
And the Lord went back to His place in Heaven.
and the devil said, "I have all that is needed
To make a good hell," and thus he succeeded.

He began to put thorns on all the trees,
And he mixed the sand with millions of fleas,
He scattered tarantulas along all the roads,
Put thorns on the cacti and horns on the toads;
He lengthened the horns of the Texas steers
And put an addition on jack rabbits' ears.

He put little devils in the broncho steed
And poisoned the feet of the centipede.
The rattlesnake bites you, the scorpion stings,
The mosquito delights you by buzzing his wings.
The sand burrs prevail, so do the ants,
And those that sit down need half soles on their pants.

The devil then said that throughout the land
He'd manage to keep up the devil's own brand,
And all would be mavericks unless they bore
The marks of scratches and bites by the score.
The heat in the summer is a hundred and ten,
Too hot for the devil and too hot for men.

The wild boar roams through the black chaparral,
It's a hell of a place he has for a hell;
The red pepper grows by the bank of the brook,
The Mexicans use it in all that they cook.
Just dine with a Mexican and then you will shout,
"I've a hell on the inside as well as without."

[kentauros]

60. Honestly, I quite enjoyed that poem

even literally laughing out loud a few times! :D Thank you for that :)

I also stuck up for Florida in a way on that "Texas Cheerleader" thread in LBN earlier this week. Y'all get a helluva a lot like us around here, and it's not right, for you, for us, or for any of the others that have spoken up so far (I still have a lot of reading to do on this thread ;))

Here's my post on that other thread, in case you missed it:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4838513&mesg_id=4838677

[Warren DeMontague]

21. I like the Butthole Surfers.

Steve Earle.

isn't James McMurtry down there, too?

[Curmudgeoness]

25. I saw them in concert in Houston in the 80's.

I had never been a fan of whatever the genre was that they fit into, but they were awesome.

[Warren DeMontague]

29. Yeah, I wouldn't know how to categorize them, either.

psychedelic punk rockabilly played by a demented leprechaun with a nitrous oxide tank strapped to his back, maybe. :shrug:

[octothorpe]

178. How about The Toadies?

[w8liftinglady]

182. whoa! I Love "Possum Kingdom"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkwD5rQ-_d4&feature=related

[octothorpe]

224. That song is hot... So hot that.. err forget it.

I was going to try make some connection between that and the fires raging near that lake.

[JanMichael]

23. North Carolina gets it too but not on the same scale.

Being around tenth in the country in population game isn't as influential as number two.

That said having Strom and that little fella jackass for 40 years hurts the fact that NC is actually pretty progressive in many ways.

[Bucky]

214. I thought Strom was from South Carolina.

[aj_cd]

27. Oh, No.

I just joined, I live in TN, but was born and grew up in MS. Yes, I was there during all that.
I get enough crap already. I hope DU is better than that. Will I need body armour?

[Curmudgeoness]

31. No body armor needed, but a thick skin never hurts.

Welcome to DU.

And if you find a post too offensive, just move on, there are plenty of good posts and good people here.

[w8liftinglady]

50. A Texan welcomes you! Stay and welcome! You'll like it here..

[Curmudgeoness]

55. When I moved there, I was told

that a Yankee was someone from the north, and a damned Yankee was someone from the north who stayed. And I would be a damned Yankee no matter how long I lived there. I was there for 14 years before circumstances caused me to have to move back home.

I may become a damned Yankee again one day. For now, I have a decent job here, and a home that is impossible to sell in this market. Anything changes, and I'm there.

[w8liftinglady]

57. Hey... I'm a Ct Yankee... maybe that's what's wrong

hehe...I've lived here 30 years. no excuses.

[aj_cd]

81. Thank you all for the welcomes

I like this place. I am learning so much. I love stuff that makes me think. I lurked for few days before I joined. Not sure about thick skin, I am more like turtle really hard shell, but mush inside. Good thing is I get over it quick and usually go back for more.

[kentauros]

69. Don't worry, it's not as dire as it may sound

My rant is mostly about the more vocal among us that dogpile on any thread where the subject is Texas, or sounds like it should have come from here. The longer you remain, you'll start seeing those posts and that meme. A simple reply that will tip you off are the ones that state simply: "Texas... it figures." I think that sentiment is pretty self-explanatory ;)

And a hearty welcome to DU to you, too! I think you'll find you love it here, especially if you find yourself in The Lounge, where all the real fun takes place :P

[keroro gunsou]

158. /ties up aj...

and chains him to a post. you're staying! /cackles insanely

:evilgrin:

[northoftheborder]

28. I can empathize with your viewpoints as a fellow liberal Texan.

The villains produced and nourished in this state are so colorful they suck all the air out of the play, the drama that is Texas culture and politics. And, most of those that you mentioned in your opening are gone (except for Jim Hightower), no longer lending their voices to give another tone and attitude to the story. How I miss Molly Ivins & Ann Richards, both national figures often heard on the national media.

You ask "Where are the crowds of teachers and union-organizers from out of state?" I ask, "where are the crowds of protesters from IN the state???" There were some gatherings at the Capitol during the recent legislative session, but nothing like the passion and total dedication day after day after day in Wisconsin. If Texans got that organized, I can see others coming in to help us. (Remember, our Democratic legislators were the original strikers, going out of state twice, to try to avoid a destructive vote.) I think we Texas Democrats are largely cowed, out-voted, year after year, just demoralized. We just do not seem to develop the leaders with enough charisma and dominance to grab people's imagination and will to change things. So, people outside the state, don't hear anything about Texas liberals. Also, so many of the state Democrats are conservative, or are afraid to speak about progressive issues.

As far as DU is concerned, those who do not live in Texas, usually do not read the Austin American Statesman, do not read the Austin Chronicle, or the Texas Observer which explain a lot of the goings on and the view point of those in Texas who do not agree with Perry, with Cornyn, with Tom Delay, with the Bushes. Maybe we should start quoting from and linking to some of those publications and editorials on DU.

Martin Frost, from Dallas, was a great Congressman but was redistricted out; they are trying mightily to get rid of Lloyd Doggett, a good liberal. I don't know what the answer is to spotlight Democrats in Texas; there are lots of them, but totally outnumbered at this point. Most of them live in the cities; the vast rural areas have always been conservative, even as Democrats. I can remember when there were scarcely any Republicans in Texas. There were the liberal Democrats, and the conservative Democrats. The big battles were fought at the primaries; Republicans didn't even have primaries until fairly recently. After Reagan came in, with his "southern strategy", the conservative Democrats deserted the party in droves; what was left was a minority, and is still today a minority.

I would welcome the Texas liberal Democrats to identify themselves more, in dialog on DU, and try to strategize collectively more. There is a Texas group, which maybe we should use more to dialog with fellow Texans, and make ourselves more visible.

[Curmudgeoness]

34. You have a really good idea---linking to the liberal news

and editorials. Molly Ivins started at the Texas Observer if I remember that far back. And she is not the only good editorialist to come out of Texas.

[w8liftinglady]

41. I get updates from the Texas Tribune every day... very liberal

http://www.texastribune.org/

[GrannyK]

226. Texas as a politically Democratic state.

I'm reminded of an encounter with a fellow Dem at a local Carson City, NV Democratic meeting, where we lived just before the 2000 election. In fact I had to vote in the early polls because we were on the road back to Texas during the election.

The gentleman was from somewhere in West Texas.

He told the story from his childhood? about all the talk about a new bank that was coming to the nearby town, and of course, the banker (or should I say bankster) was a Republican.

Well the folks from all the outlying country dwellers loaded up all the kids and descended upon the town. Some of the grownups had seen a few Republicans in their life, but none of the kids had, so they decided they must educate the kids and show them what a Republican looked like.

Now my memory is not clear whether he was explaining his history or a story in one of Molly's books. Because our conversation centered around her.

Anyway, the little story illustrates the Democratic Party's defection to the Republican Party.

One other thing. I'm not sure if it's still in publication but every so often there was a little publication called "Texas Brags" that poked a little fun at our fair state. Although now I cringe at a new description of "fair and balanced state."

[kentauros]

76. You "sucked me in" with your second sentence,

giving me a good laugh! :D And reminding me of Molly Ivin's remark about our government being a great laboratory for state politics ;)

I agree with the points you have made. You're also more informed overall about Texas politics than I. Maybe I just get too depressed or angry reading too much of it. Although, when I did subscribe to The Texas Observer, I always got a good laugh out of something they published, so I might go back to them soon. There's a lot to cover in this state and they do a great job of it.

Interestingly, my Republican father does sometimes vote Democratic, and they live pretty much in the country (Dripping Springs, out west of Austin.) Remember that literal fight (fistfight) that occurred between the republican and the Dem? I don't remember their names now, other than the fact that the 'pub hit the Dem in the face in a parking lot scuffle. When I mentioned that story to my father, he called the 'pub "a jerk!" though I'm sure he might have had harsher words in mind ;) He and my mother (who's liberal, or likely a conservative Dem) both voted for the Dem, as they liked him :) Granted, Dripping isn't quite rural, but it's still far enough away from Austin that liberalness is pretty weak there.

One fairly liberal rag I do read almost regularly is The Houston Press, and I have posted some of their stories to the Texas forum. They produce some phenomenal investigative reporting stories that are worth getting out there to the rest of DU. I'll pay attention to it more and see what I can do that way.

Thanks for the suggestion and the great post :hi:

[sasha031]

30. thank you for your excellent post

I have stereotyped in the past and I'm sorry for that. You are correct in that Texas brings back memories of Bush, Delay, Perry.
I have often wondered what has happened, a state that has produced remarkable people in public life.
You have been victimized by redistricting, it must have been a painful experience.

[northoftheborder]

35. Redistricting is rotten. Austin is currently in 3 pieces, and the new plan is for four.

[gateley]

32. Charlie Wilson.

[tabbycat31]

33. every state has its fair share of whackjobs

My "blue" state gave us some great politicians but the most recent man to win statewide was Chris Christie. I apologize for him on behalf of all of NJ.

I just came back from Wisconsin--- before I went there I wondered how the same state that gave us a gem like Feingold gave us a tool like Paul Ryan, and after being there I completely see. Neighboring Minnesota gave us Al Franken and Michele Bachmann.

I haven't been to Texas in years and won't go back in the near future unless a campaign sends me there. I have nothing against it and enjoyed my time there but I just could not take the hot weather there (I went in August the last time I was there). This northeastern girl could not live there full time (but I would say that for most states---I am very happy living where I am).

[kentauros]

79. No, no, no! NEVER come to Texas in August!

As you obviously found out! :hi:

Plus, that's the peak of our hurricane season, lasting through September, too. Ike hit us in August, almost three years ago now.

I accept your apology for Christie. I may be here all night if I have to ask for an apology for all the "jerks" we've produced ;) Still, you do seem to have a good balance on yin and yang (Franken and Bachman, Feingold and Ryan) while we have an excess of yin. We need some yang, y'all!

We should all feel very happy wherever we are. I know I do as do you :D

[MagickMuffin]

127. I think you might need a slight correction ;=P

"while we have an excess of yin. We need some yang, y'all!"

I believe it should be rephrased in that we have to much yang, therefore we need some more Yin!

Of course using the Yin Yang as a symbol for politics, is a touchy analogy. Since a little bit of yin exist in the yang and a little bit of yang exist in yin. But then again perhaps it is an excellent analogy. However, I would state that let's say the Democratic Party was the Yin, they see the need for the little bit of Yang to get things done. But the republicons being the Yang, cannot for the life of them see any benefit of using the Yin that is necessary to get things done. So the symbol would change to look off balance.





:hi:

[kentauros]

202. I confess!

I had to look it up on wikipedia :P

Nice clarification, and how it would work politically. Of course, republicans would only see their part, and it would translate as one big red dot! Bullseye! lol

[former9thward]

36. Posters who attack Texas because of Bush never seem to attack California

which gave us Reagan and Nixon among others. I sure they have a reason.

[w8liftinglady]

38. Texas leads the nation in uninsured. That's why I'm staying here to open a free clinic.

Trust me, I'd love to be in Vermont. Texas needs those of us like my partner and his co-workers who care for the vast amount of poor kids in Texas public schools... and me,hoping to open my free chronic care clinic to keep diabetics,hypertensives and COPD patients out of the hospital. We,the horrible liberals that we are, are better than the ignorant hate-mongerers.
I've found a place for my first clinic. Someone has to look after the masses who can't move.

That would be Texas Democrats.
Solidarity!

[CTyankee]

137. What a wonderful mission to have in life!

You inspire me...:loveya:

[blondeatlast]

39. I sympathize--I'm from Arizona. nt

[boppers]

42. "Is it just a northern thing?" There's one answer.

That kind of stand-offish, civil war, mentality is still considered acceptable in Texas.

[Curmudgeoness]

51. Again, like all stereotypes, this is not a majority opinion.

Yes, there are those people, and yes, they do get all the attention.

[kentauros]

82. First off, to be clear,

I don't think with that Civil War mentality, and I don't know any that do, despite living here all of my fifty years.

My question was an observation of attitude I see coming from the north, directed at the south. It's almost like there's an attitude in the northern states that the Civil War ended too soon, that they should have "finished us off". Yeah, it's a harsh statement, but the sentiment is easy to 'hear' in some posts.

Unless, in fact, you're agreeing with my observation as stated above?

[boppers]

85. I was pointing out some content in the OP which indicated a form of self-segregation.

It's a form of regional pride, akin to nationalism.

...and like nationalism, it can be ugly, and create divisiveness.

[kentauros]

91. Well, I guess I'm unclear as to where in my OP

that you're getting that idea. This is about a form of regional-hate as observed over my years at DU. I can't help that I'm a Texan, but I embrace that label, as should anyone for the state they love. That has nothing to do with self-segregation. You can have state-pride without some wild idea that it's akin to nationalism. I think that's taking the definition of pride way too far. I really don't see how you're getting that from my OP, so you might try doing a point-by-point analysis, if it's that important to you.

[boppers]

100. Two points:

One, about regionalism and nationalism: Does this slogan sound familiar? "It's Like a Whole Other Country". Texas goes out of it's way to claim exceptionalism, even in it's own advertising.

Two, how do these phrases seem to you: "Is it just a jewish thing?" "Is it just a black thing?" Can you see how these are both inherently discriminatory statements?

[kentauros]

102. On your first point,

it's a reference to the fact that Texas once was a country, as any grade-school child should know (unless they got Texas-SBOE-influenced history books ;))

On your second point, you seem to be purposely avoiding my statement that this was all based on observation of my fellow DU-ers from the north in their attitude and posts towards the south. It's not discrimination. It is a legitimate question about northern attitudes directed toward their southern neighbors. Or are you denying that people have such attitudes in the north? If so, then wait a while, and I'll compile a list of posts as I find them for every time a DU-er in a northern state makes some dismissing and/or offending statement toward those of us in the southern states.

[boppers]

108. Your observations are broad brush and discriminatory, then.

You are stating that there is a "north" and a "south", as two separate groups. I am making the point that doing so is an act of discrimination. Are there people all over the country who are discriminatory? Certainly. Are there people still obsessed with dividing the country based on events that happened long ago, making statements that are, at the least, geographically incorrect? Of course.

So, if somebody from L.A. makes discriminatory remarks about Texas, are they being "northern"? How about somebody from Arizona? Is that "northern"?

Oh, and Hawaii was its own country once, too, so what? Do they try to use it as a constant branding of self-superiority, and uniqueness among states? I guess the word I'm dancing around is "smug".

[kentauros]

113. No, I'm not stating them as "groups".

I'm stating them as geographical areas. This is a legitimate term used in our country without any connotations of grouping or discrimination. Or do you deny that Maine is north of Florida? Or that New England is to the north of the Gulf States? I could say "New England" as that's the general area I am inferring when I say "northern". It's such an accepted term that I really don't have to define it. I can only surmise that you are trying to be obstinate on these semantic terms to argue for the sake of argument.

Now, I do have one fact in all of this known only by one other DU-er here. That is, because I was a little bit concerned that I would garner the attention of a Northerner (you know, someone that lives in New England?) for my question "Is this a northern thing?", that I needed the opinion of someone that was unquestionably a true Northerner in all the definitions given to this point. She had no problem with it. So why is someone in Oregon having such a major problem with an accepted term when none of the DU-ers in the north, as defined, have any such problem with it at all? Why are you so offended by a term that I have yet to see on DU be offensive to those in question? I am perplexed by your over-reaction and really don't know how to answer you further. Perhaps you should start a thread and ask the DU-ers of New England if they are or ever have been offended or felt discriminated against by those that use the terms "north" or "northerner" as a label for their geographical area.

As for your reaction that Texas's advertising campaign comes across as "smug" well, to each his own. I think this is one of those instances where you'd just have to live here to understand the whole message behind it. It would take too long to explain what is an obvious and un-offending slogan to the rest of us.

[Egnever]

118. I think you grab the essense of the smugness he was refering to

in your last paragraph

"As for your reaction that Texas's advertising campaign comes across as "smug" well, to each his own. I think this is one of those instances where you'd just have to live here to understand the whole message behind it. It would take too long to explain what is an obvious and un-offending slogan to the rest of us."

If we were just from Texas we would understand...

Dont mess with Texas!

[kentauros]

120. How about this:

Can I really know what it's like to live in Las Vegas, without ever having visited the state of Nevada? ;)

[Egnever]

126. Dunno

Been to Texas many times myself. Some parts are great others not so much but the government in general there is chock full of fuckwits and until the majority of that state wakes up and stops electing and re electing clowns that think ceding from the unions is cute I think a little Texas bashing is warranted.

I have family there all democrats it doesn't stop them from mocking Texas/Texans themselves.

Who knows maybe if you weren't from Texas you would get it?

Just saying.

[WolverineDG]

138. That's the slogan for a highly-successful anti-littering campaign

Or did you think we Texans just threw our trash out the car windows, like I've seen folks do in the North?

dg

[boppers]

119. I am originally from Tucson, and have lived in Atlanta, and now live in Portland.

I also spent 18 months of my life, driving the country (I spent two weeks in Texas, FWIW). Part of my journeys was learning about the varied social perceptions people had, and how they related to the world.... (and linguistics are often a part of that).

The meanings of "northern" seem to change based on local geography, specifically, in "the south" (note, not southern, but "the south", which would be civil war confederate states). People in New England do not complain about the "northern" folks ripping up their state in 1812, for example.

I will concur "northerner" is a legitimate term in some areas, but the point I'm trying to make may a bit more subtle... New Englanders do not complain about "northern" people, even though there are, indeed, people to their north, who did, indeed, invade. They have not become stuck in a moment of time. They do not wear, and carry, a mantle of self-separation over latitude(!) from a long ago war. They have moved on.

That's why I asked about somebody from L.A., or Arizona, as both are "southern" places, but neither were really part of "the south" (The battle of Picacho Peak doesn't really count). They do not build identity, their sense of self, upon a long ago civil war (which, BTW, "the south" calls by different names, as well... "war of northern aggression" was popular in Atlanta).

"So why is someone in Oregon having such a major problem"... ah, herin lies the issue. You think of "northerner" in civil war terms, not modern terms. As does (from my experience) much of "the south". When the war was over, "the south" tried to culturally separate itself from "northerners", and continues to do so to this day (as varying linguistic terms still demonstrate). Oregon is very much north, but was not part of the war... and yet, "the south" is stuck on self-segregating from a north that has completely changed.

Minor aside: I thought that Atlanta was the most racist place in the country that I had been to, until going to Texas. I thought I was in a Disneyland of racism, with every stereotype being played out, but nothing in-between. It was all caricatures.

"It would take too long to explain what is an obvious and un-offending slogan to the rest of us."

I would say it has taken a very long time to explain why "ni**er" is an offensive word to those of us not from "the south".

Sure, something may not be offensive to you, but it may offend others. The slogan or word itself is not the important thing, but the lack of cultural cross-communication is. After the war, there was no concerted effort to preserve the "northern" way of life, no demands for special rights for "northern" lifestyles, it was all simply "American" (in the USA sense). The rest of the country kept evolving, but cultural pockets that wanted to "preserve" their "way of life" objected. Today, they wonder why they are looked upon with disdain.

[octothorpe]

179. Is that much different than someone saying "Is it just a west/east coast thing?"

I find that to be just as common.

[DemoTex]

43. With me, you are preachin' to the choir.

I've been DemoTex for 10 years this month (I lived in Dallas then).

[CrownPrinceBandar]

44. I know where you're coming from.........

Bring up West Virginia and you get the same shit but with incest jokes thrown in for good measure.

Anyway, I lived in Austin for three years and I miss it desperately. I hanker for a Jovita's margarita, some grub from The Green Mesquite and a dip in Barton Springs.

Rec'd.

[sonias]

171. You can always come back to visit

Austin welcomes anyone with heart!

:loveya:

[stevedeshazer]

45. Got your back, Texas DUer. DU loves my state (Oregon) but we have our share of crazies.

By the way, Oregon would be as big as Texas if you stomped it out flat. But I think you guys get a bad rap.

:)

[krabigirl]

47. I have no hate at all for Texas or Texans. Not all Texans are christofascists :)

[Melissa G]

49. I'm personally not convinced the majority of votes get counted here.

Texas is a Purple state, but those who count the votes and redistrict are Red. IMHO, we would be blue if we could do what my sig line says. And Yes, I live in Travis County and work in Austin and am happy to be here. Liberal and Proud.

[Texasgal]

52. Exactly!

Some people have no clue!

Love you fellow LIBERAL austinite! :)

[Melissa G]

121. ...

:toast: :hug:

[w8liftinglady]

53. well said. There is a LOT of corruption (I refer you to Henderson County)

Money talks,Baby. I live in Joe Barton's district. Need I say more?

[Melissa G]

122. Sorry 'bout you having to put up with Barfy Barton

Up until now, I have mostly had Lloyd Doggett. The pie slices of redistricting will probably take him away again. We battle on! :toast::hi:

[thanks_imjustlurking]

153. Ditto, especially since they foisted the paperless wonders (eSlate) on us. nt

[txwhitedove]

58. Thank you for expressing what so many of us feel. The Bush's aren't Texans, they

are damn Yankee opportunists, so we shouldn't be hated just for their evil ways.

[cherokeeprogressive]

61. I fucking LOVE Texas and fuck anyone who paints with that broad brush...

The same one they use to paint the whole of the south with.

My favorite memories about Austin: Antones... Sixth Street... The Back Door... and a hundred other clubs I can't remember the names of... Lake Travis... Lago Vista...

I've eaten at the Big Texan in Amarillo, and no I didn't try to eat the big steak but someday I will!

Fuck a buncha Texas haters.

[Saphire]

65. Here ya go.....

SCREW YOU, WE'RE FROM TEXAS

Ray Wylie Hubbard


I got on my cowboy boots, jeans
And Hawaiian shirt, mirrored sunglasses
And a mobile phone
I guess I look like some Port Aransas
Dope dealer that's out on bail
Just trying to get home
Well I ain't in jail and I got me a guitar
Got a little band that's hotter than a rocket
Sometimes we're sloppy
We're always loud, tonight we're just ornery
And locked in the pocket

So screw you, we're from Texas
Screw you, we're from Texas
Screw you, we're from Texas
We're from Texas baby, so screw you

Now I love the USA
And the other states
Ahh, they're OK
Texas is the place I wanna be
And I don't care if I ever go to Delaware anyway
Cause we got Stubbs, and Gruene Hall and Antone's, and John T's
Country Store
We've got Willie and Jacky Jack, Robert Earl, Pat, Cory, Charlie and me
And so many more.

So screw you, we're from Texas
Screw you, we're from Texas
Screw you, we're from Texas
We're from Texas, screw you

Sing it with me--
Screw you, we're from Texas
Screw you, we're from Texas
Screw you, we're from Texas
We're from Texas, screw you!

Now Texas has gotten a bad reputation,
Because of what happened in Dallas and Waco
And our corporations well they are corrupt
And the politicians are swindlers and loco
But when it comes to music my friend
I believe these words are as true as St. John the Revelator's
Our Mr. Vaughan was the best that there ever was
And no band was cooler than the 13th Floor Elevators.

So screw you, we're from Texas
Screw you, we're from Texas
Screw you, we're from Texas
We're from Texas, screw you!

Screw you, we're from Texas
Screw you, we're from Texas
Screw you, we're from Texas
We're from Texas Screw you

Screw you, we're from Texas
Screw you, we're from Texas
Screw you, we're from Texas
We're from Texas Screw you

We're from Texas Screw you...

[cherokeeprogressive]

84. I've Got Texas...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWsIXsMjfu0&NR=1

[Saphire]

63. I'm 5th generation Texan, and I love it here.

[ErikJ]

67. Perry has DOUBLED Texas state debt like Bush DOUBLED natl debt!

Just think if TX had no oil. He would have quadrupled their debt. Texas refuses to raise taxes on the rich and corporations so we should deny them federal aid to bail them out.

[kentauros]

89. You need to think through that "what if" a little further.

If Texas had never had oil, Dumbya might never have become president. His family was here for the oil in the mid-20th century. GW had his own (failed) oil company, too. No oil, no oil company, no GWB for governor and certainly not for president ;)

Back to reality, now. When Bush became governor after Ann Richards, Texas had a one billion dollar surplus. When he left to take over the White House (without finishing his governorship, I might add) we were 7 billion in the hole! I can only surmise that the gradual defunding and outright war on public education has so dumbed down our populace that they simply cannot understand that being in debt is a bad thing. It's too bad, too, that the way republicans finance governments isn't explained in simple to understand terms for the masses. That is, something akin to how you can't live your life on credit cards and never pay off the balances. It collapses quickly without a source of income (taxes.) I may have that wrong, too, but it's how I see it, at its most basic level.

As for the bit about denying us federal aid in any future bailout, I disagree. If our government collapses, it will hurt the rest of country, too. Even the financial collapse one of the smaller states has major repercussions for the nation as a whole, and bailouts should never be denied for political reasons. The republicans are hypocrites, that's well known. But repairing their damage to our states and our country should never be denied just because they're idiots when it comes to money. Something like that can be administered by the feds, too, taking the locals out of the picture until things stabilize.

[ErikJ]

96. Deny them Fed Highway Funds then.

That usually gets states to behave pretty quickly.

Sen. Bernie Sanders says this is how we should get states to also not participate in bribing companies to come to their state by using tax cut incentives.

[kentauros]

101. And you're right.

That tactic works. I don't know if it works all the time, as I don't see all instances of its use. Perry would very likely choke were federal highway funds blocked as that's one of the biggest funds to come into the state. The drivers here might very well throw him out of office just over that.

So, if you have Sanders' ear, tell him to go ahead and make it so. I want to see Perry squirm and be all hypocritical again. It's fodder for the next election cycle :)

[ErikJ]

107. Blue states subsidize "Fiscal conservative" Red states

That's one rationale to dislike them among others-theyre frauds. I'm with Norman Goldman. He says he HATES Republicans and so he slams the Red states as well for all their evils. You cant just say theyre fine and let them get away with it because they also have a few Liberals.

[kentauros]

111. First off,

"Blue states subsidize" should be excised from our rhetoric. We are all part of the same country, and all pay into the same pot for our taxes. We, as both contributors and benefactors of our federal government need to remember that if we start thinking in terms of "us vs them" that it's back to my OP point of "divide and conquer". That is never a good thing, no matter how you phrase it.

As a self-described Liberal, I am happy to both pay my taxes and see them go to all citizens of this country, whether they appreciate it or not. I do not have "conditional compassion" for my fellow man and woman.

Now where in anything I've said have I even hinted that "they're all fine" with regards to the republicans? (with the exception of my father, seeing as how he will vote for Democratic candidates if the thinks they'd do a better job than the opposition.) You appear to be either misreading my posts, or think that it's really A-Ok to punish a whole state just to get at a few bad ones. Yes, the politicians are the ones in power and supposedly at the brunt of the punishment, but you have to know that it's really the people that suffer, right? Are you really saying that you're all for throwing out any chance of us liberals taking back our state just to get back at the republicans here?

[texanwitch]

68. I don't under stand the hate for everything Texas either.

Sure we have assholes here but every state does.

I was in Austin yesterday, it was great.

Austin is not just a state of mind.

Houston is great to.

[UTUSN]

70. I hate Texas and love DU. What's the point?!1 n/t

[kentauros]

90. The point is that I'm asking

for why you hate Texas. It's not enough to me to know that you do. You have to define it, or you can't truly 'own' it ;)

[pipi_k]

71. Well there's plenty of hate in Texas, too

A young family friend brought back a bride from Texas last September. He's in the USAF, and had been gone 12 years but got stationed back here in Mass. He brought her here and then left her while he had to go back south for a couple of months of training.

Well.

She hasn't had one good thing to say about this state...this whole area...since she's been here. Texas is better. Their State Fairs are better. Lubbock is better. Their food is better. The people are better. New England SUCKS. She absolutely hates it here. Hates the people...everything.

She posts this on Facebook all the time, and I see her dippy friends down in Texas agreeing with her, and egging on her disdain for Mass...my home for 58 years.

So anyway, there's lots of people in Texas who could use an attitude adjustment also...

[kentauros]

93. I don't deny that there are idiots here, too.

They are in, and from, everywhere in the world. It's all about how well they were educated by their parents. While my father is a hardcore republican, he still grilled it into us to be friendly to all we meet and just treat people as they would expect to be treated in return. You know, golden rule stuff :)

There are still stuck-up people, no matter where you go. Even forty years ago I knew them, and many lived in the "better" parts of town than even where we lived (and it wasn't 'shabby' either.) You can bet (and you'd win that bet) that were she acting that way with those of us that know how to treat potential friends, that we'd take her to task over her attitude, that she's not representing the Texas we know and love, and should consider living someplace separate from the rest of the state.

[hobbit709]

147. Anybody that says Lubbock is better has a problem.

At one time it seemed like half the musicians in Austin were FROM Lubbock.
The phrase was "Lubbock or leave it"

[sybylla]

77. First, there weren't "crowds of teachers and union supporters from out of state."

I'm not exactly sure you meant it that way, but when you ask, "Where are all the crowds of teachers and union-organizers from out of state ready to fight to the end for the people of Texas?" You're speaking to a Republican claim put out to discredit Wisconsin rallies.

Sure, there were a few who made the trip from outside the state - generally just across the border from Northern Illinois or Eastern Iowa and Minnesota to stand at the capitol in Madison.

But in Wisconsin, we fought this battle ourselves. The rallies around our capitol building were spontaneous and random. We came together - unions and non-union organizations, public, private and non-union workers. There was no plan. There were no outside organizations like AFP to provide buses and some kind of plan for putting on rallies.

We just showed up. We just organized buses from cities around the state.

I know of no one who even expected to get national coverage. This isn't the first time we've held rallies outside our capitol. Why should anyone outside the state care?


So I guess we're all just expecting Texas to do the same thing we did. (Or at least I am now, having just learned from your post that Texas, like so many other states since Wisconsin, is facing the same union-busting bullshit.)

[kentauros]

97. I'm not going to argue semantics over choices of individual words.

"Crowds" is appropriate, as it can be any number for a group, and much more than "a few" which really does imply a literal handful.

Now, with that out of the way, my statement had nothing at all to do with republican claims to discredit you. It was my very general impression garnered from real liberal news sources, like DemocracyNow and some of the publications that were posted in those threads. I'm afraid I don't have a memory like a steel trap as with quite a few DU-ers, so I have to rely on my swiss-cheese memory. I apologize if you took offense as none was implied.

Now, another Texas DU-er pointed out that not only did we not have anyone coming in from out of state to help with our protests, but we hardly attracted many natives, either. That's probably a good indication of the differences in public attitudes between our states, and I dare say, Texas may take a while to catch up to you ;)

[rainbow4321]

83. Something I never understand..and yes, it is disappointing

Repuke related things happen in every other state...yet comments are then focused on the specific repuke or repuke-backed group and not the state. Not the case with Texas :(

I partially blame national level Dem pols. We have become the fly over state for them. Know what it is like to live here and want to go to a election year rally knowing your only chance is to go over to New Mexico--which might as well be the other side of the world if you live in North East Texas like I do. Not exactly a day trip.
Any cameo appearance by national level pols is in the rich enclaves of Dallas where they drop in for an hour or two and then you get to see them go straight back to airport with a few million extra in their election account. Then they fly off to Austin and Houston and repeat the process.

And then there is the biggest problem, carpet bagger chimpass and his cronies will always be associated with this state. Yet there is no anger for Ohio which gives us Boehner..no generalized comments about Minnesota which gives us Bachmann. And...no anger towards Wisconsin when it came to the repukes there.

Just somethings to think about before one hits the post message button. Is there a repuke or repuke group in YOUR state that you would resent being associated with just because of where you happen to live?

If you lived in the USA during chimpass' regime, would you be upset if someone said "well you lived there, you must have supported him, you deserve what you got...etc.."

[Manifestor_of_Light]

86. Thanks, kentauros.

You are very eloquent.

I was born and raised in Texas. Lived here all my life. I went to college in San Antonio, and drove to Austin on weekends to see the big name acts at the Armadillo World Headquarters.

The classical music was in San Antonio. The San Antonio Symphony played their subscription concerts at Trinity University.

I live in rural east Texas now and I have no white friends. They all hate Obama and can't stand him.

There are a few Democrats but not very many.

I have to go to Houston occasionally to shop and get some culture.

I have never owned a cowboy hat, cowboy boots, or a pickup. I used to go to the symphony and the opera in Houston all the time. I had season tickets for several years.

I'e read the New Yorker for about four decades. My dad turned me on to it. He was a damnyankee from Ohio.

Both my parents went to college and their highest value they instilled in me was education. I earned three college degrees, including a doctorate.

I went to college in Texas, and got some excellent education from some excellent teachers.

I live in Joe Barton's district and he is a disgrace. The pervasive Bible thumping here in Jeebusland makes me gag.

So don't use your broad brush. All liberals do NOT live in Austin or Houston. Some of us are scattered throughout the Piney Woods.

[w8liftinglady]

87. Yes, M.O.L. and I share the same Hell... and we exist here.

And my partner lives near Cedar Creek lake in even more Hell...a die-hard liberal 3-war veteran union Democrat.
We DO exist in the catacombs known as Red Texas...and we DO vote.

[MorningGlow]

88. No argument here

The only time I was in Texas was when I was 11, driving through the panhandle on the way to California, so I have not formed an opinion of the state born of personal experience. But what I have learned over the years is that no place, in or out of the United States, is ALL one thing or another. Not all New Yorkers are fast-talking and rude. Not all Californians are ditzy New Age woos. Not all British people have bad teeth and boil their food to death. And not all Texans are small-minded, Bible-thumping, ten-gallon-hat-wearing uber-conservatives on the take.

And yet you'll see all of these stereotypes--and more--all over DU, all the time. It's just lazy thinking--and we'd expect better of our fellow DUers, but we don't always get it. So every once in a while we need a rant such as yours to remind people what it means to be an open-minded, informed liberal.

Thanks for standing up for Texas. You haz a righteous rant. :applause:

[kentauros]

105. If you noticed Texas at all when your family was driving through,

you would have noticed the so very absolute flatness that is the Texas Panhandle. I hear people in Houston complain about how flat it is here, and I have to say to them, "Then you've never driven through the Panhandle!" :P

My oldest brother and his family live in Colorado, so the couple of times we've driven up there also took us through Plano. As I recall, the road was the highest point for miles all around! :rofl:

Thanks for pointing out the problems with stereotypes, and why they don't really work (except in fiction.) I hope to live long enough to see a majority of people really get away from that kind of thinking. It does no one any good at all.

[thanks_imjustlurking]

154. I grew up in the Piney Woods, and I was going to go to college in, IIRC, Kansas.

Operative word, *was*. When I hit the really flat part, driving up, I got the screaming meemies and drove right back. Seriously!

[kentauros]

177. I can believe it!

It's like suddenly you're in Flatland and expecting to see geometric figures moving about on the surface :rofl:

[lonestarnot]

98. Just consider yourself luck not to be from AZ.

:hi:

[Scottybeamer70]

99. From Texas....

just not there at the present. Notice my avatar!!
If you want to know all about Texas politics, plus a lot more,
read, Juanita Jeans....Worlds's Most Dangerous Beauty Salon.
That little site will perk you up!

[thanks_imjustlurking]

156. Amen!

:patriot:

[lonestarlib]

104. My ancestors came to Texas before it was a state.

I can't imagine ever leaving; but it's tough, and even sometimes a little scary, being surrounded by idiots.

[kentauros]

106. That's cool!

I wonder if they ever met Stephen F. Austin. He was a surveyor and landman back then. Many plats in Texas are still in use that bear his name.

Education is really the key to all of this. If we could bring our country back from the educational brink upon which we seem to be teetering, we could see much of that idiocy evaporate. Texas could very well turn bright blue when that happens :D

[justabob]

144. me too

The only time I can ever imagine leaving is in August, every August. As I get older I hate the hot, humid stretch between the Fourth of July and Labor Day even more. :D There's a lot of stuff I wish was different, but Texas is home.

[sonias]

109. Texas loud and Texas proud

Representing and reporting!

You can hate Rick Perry and all the other haters in Texas, but you don't have to hate the state or the good people in it.

We are no different than any other state.

:kick:

[Kurovski]

110. Any place Peggy Hill lives is alright in my book, I tell you what.

[kentauros]

114. *snerk*

:D :hi:

I haven't seen all of the "King of the Hill" episodes, but I remember the one where Boomhauer fell asleep in his inner-tube and woke up in the Houston Ship Channel, sunburned and covered in leaves! :rofl:

[Kurovski]

211. I think I've seen all of the episodes.

They occasionally do a good job of calling-out any over-played left wing dismissiveness of their neighbors.

I remember when Hank debated over whether or not to vote for George W. Bush because his handshake was "lacking". :D

:hi:

[callous taoboy]

130. Boomhauer is my next door neighbor, I kid you not.

[Kurovski]

162. Hottest guy on the block, to cite one poll.

[kwiland]

115. Pinko Commie Liberal In San Antonio

We're in San Antonio. My job relocated my family here almost two years ago. I was, honestly, afraid to relocate here, being the pinko commie libral that I am. I love it here. I grew up in DC, so I am used to, enjoy, and prefer diverse multiculturalism. I love the TX 'can do' attitude. I also love the way we live and let live. My daughter's school is much better than her school in VA. Housing is cheap, and the food is excellent. What's not to love?

If I was living in a very rural area, I might have a different opinion. But, today, I'm very happy that I live in San Antonio.

And in my town, we're very 'blue'. I think TX will be a blue state in just a few years, if we get out the vote.

[kentauros]

116. Welcome to DU, kwiland!

:hi:

I haven't lived in San Antonio since 1980 (uh, I moved there to go to UTSA, and, well, flunked out. I had fun though!) I've since looked at aerial images of the area, and boy has it changed, at least for sprawl. Probably not as bad as Houston, though ;)

Glad to hear you like it there. I know there are a few other DU-ers here in SA, so go over to the Texas forum where we often gather. The Texas DU-ers in Central Texas sometimes have meet-ups, as it's pretty easy to meet in Austin or Wimberly or SA :)

[onestepforward]

124. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[Saphire]

136. welcome to San Antonio. I moved here 14 years ago, and plan to never leave

[onestepforward]

123. Texas leftist here living in the very red fringes of a blue city

and DU is my refuge from rightwing madness.

It can be very discouraging living in a red state like Texas. Thank you to those who have written supporting commments. They are deeply treasured.

[woo me with science]

125. Great post. nt

[B Calm]

129. I understand how awful it is living in a red state. I live behind the Hoosier Iron Curtain.

[callous taoboy]

132. Fellow Texan concurs, sir.

Texas is.... complicated. I've basically lived here all my life, and while we do have to put up with our share of some of the stuff that makes the entire south the object of ridicule, I agree that we get shot down on DU at the plop of a cow pie. I have lived in two other states which I won't mention, but they were both far away from here and living in those places made me appreciate the "southern hospitality" that is so true. People in Texas, by and large, are very friendly, laid-back folks. This is an amazingly gorgeous state as well. I have been in some spots in this state that literally just blew my mind at how beautiful they were. Ever been to "Enchanted Rock?" It's like another planet all together, and it is my favorite spot in the world. Ever been red fishing in the Port Aransas channels? It is surreal and magnificent. Ever been arrowhead hunting along the banks of Lake Belton? Magical. Ever driven motorcycle through Big Bend National Park? Gahhhh! My memories of that trip are what I think of any time I am down. I could go on.

Also, some favorite Texans are Janis Joplin, and The 13th Floor Elevators (the 60's band from Austin that coined the term "psychedelic rock" and whose drummer I've hung out with numerous times in Luckenbach).

[kentauros]

184. "Complicated". That's an excellent description of us :)

And why it's so difficult to explain to people why we are the way we are. Your post did a great job at explaining it, though, and it would likely take the contents of several books on Texas to get it across in detail. Care to write one? :P

I can't speak to the hunting and fishing part as I'm an enigma in Texas: a vegetarian. I've had my share of mind-blown rednecks asking me how that's possible in Texas, as if I was born a vegetarian. Right. In 1960s Texas, vegetarians were a normal occurrence. Sure. I'll buy that for a dollar! ;)

Now, the one psychedelic musician/band I do enjoy is the Rev. Horton Heat and his City Slickers! :D

[sendero]

133. Stereotypical judgments..

... are human nature. It is much easier to place someone in a category than it is to look at who they actually are.

The TX haters don't bother me, they are just stupid people. And stupid people in power bother me but not stupid people on message boards. :)

[kentauros]

188. I agree with that :)

However, when the broad brushes come out, I can't reply with "Stop being a stupid person" because it's against DU rules ;)

This morning I was thinking of a retort to the ones that like to post "Texas... it figures" to those threads where something worthy of criticism has occurred here. Something like this:

"DU-er that is too afraid to post residential information in their profile... it figures" }(

[Enthusiast]

134. I apologize if I have contributed to the insensitivity.

And I understand what you are saying. But Texas has an image problem that didn't start with DU, Dubya or Tom Delay. There is that Judge Roy Bean "Law West of the Pecos" thing. It is a kind of cowboy justice historical legacy. And that justice never included people of color. I agree that a more enlightened understanding of the real Texas would serve everyone. I was a huge fan of Molly Ivins.

[PotatoChip]

139. This thread and some of the comments in it

make me sad. I had no idea what you folks from Texas were up against. But now I see what you mean. FWIW, I've never been there, but I find it hard to believe that Texas is all that much different then any other state. There are many red states thru-out this country, but that does not mean we should broadly brush everyone in them as being 'that way'. In fact, if anything we here on DU should be supportive of the folks from these states (not just Texas) who dare to be liberal instead of conforming to the conservatism of their geographic area.

Sorry to see you guys going through this. And thank you to the OP for opening my eyes to the problem.

[sonias]

174. Thank you, PotatoChip!

You are welcome in Texas anytime! :hug:

We could use more people with good hearts moving and even just visiting Texas.

Those of in Texas keep hope alive.

[kentauros]

189. Thank you, PotatoChip!

:hug:

It's something I've observed on DU for a long time, and I finally cracked :crazy: ;)

Thank you, too, for the message within your post. It's one I'd like to see broadcast from the top down, with real sincerity :)

[Le Taz Hot]

140. It's not just Texas.

It's also the South in general. For California it's the San Joaquin Valley (I believe one DUer referred to it as a cesspool -- here's hoping he/she wasn't typing that with a mouthful of salad). There's a significant number of DUers who are quick to pigeonhole people based on where they live while completely ignoring the reality of their life and actions on behalf of the Good Fight. Thanks for bringing an awareness. Maybe some will catch a clue.

[mountainlion55]

145. I must apologize

I also bash Texas alot. Its unfair to the progressives that live there and I'm sorry. Having said that I feel that the divide here is more about culture. I feel that we have two cultures in this country that will NEVER agree. The differences between Conservative and progressive beliefs are just to deep. I will never believe in conservative ideologies and vice a versa. This divide has existed almost since day one of our republic. Texas just seems to be the poster child for Conservatives. :smoke: :smoke:

[ScreamingMeemie]

150. As the bumper sticker says...I wasn't born here,

but I got here as fast as I could.

That said, I was born in WI, spent some years in the Carolinas and New York before ending up in MI. I have to say that the Houston area that I live in is far more blue than any of the areas I have lived in before. My neighborhood is diverse and everyone gets along (except for the HOA board members).

As someone upthread said, I think it's only a matter of time before Texas is back to blue. It's a big state...more room for idiots I guess.

[steve2470]

155. A Floridian rec's your thread, in solidarity

Not all of us in Flori-duh are ignorant and stupid voters. We have the same dilemma and similar liberal pockets that Texas does (see: Gainesville, Miami Beach, city of Orlando, etc )

[kentauros]

170. Thank you :)

Also, any state that has to put up with hurricanes from both coasts has my support and sympathies ;)

I used to collect b&w and non-superhero comics way back when, and used to read the news in The Comics Journal of crackdowns on adult comics in Florida. I don't know if it's still just as bad now as it was then (arresting adult comic shop owners and buyers for "porn") but for a similar measure in Texas, it's illegal to own more than five dildoes. Any more, and it's "intent to distribute" :eyes:

Things do improve for the better, we're just in a 'trough' at the moment and will climb out again. Even conservatives are now balking at the actions of those extreme ones of their own, and that's always a good sign the times are a changin' :D

[TransitJohn]

163. There are many prejudices and priveledges on DU.

From urban elitism to southern bashing, it runs the gamut.

[cordelia]

196. Yep.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

164. Wanna see my land grant from The Republic of Texas?

I have proof.

Dated 1845, signed by Anson Jones, last President of the Republic of Texas.

Found it in the attic. The house I live in was built in 1883.

[kentauros]

193. If you have your annual Memorial Day celebration again this year,

then I'll take a look at it when I get there. I'll bring a jeweler's loupe and camera :)

I also promise not to be sick when I show up :P

One thing I forgot to ask was if y'all have measured any exposed beams or rafters. They should be true-dimension. They might also be put together with square nails. A friend of mine built his house down on Clear Lake with a lot of found materials, including some true-dimension beams. It survived Alicia with no damage, but I haven't talked to him in years, and don't know how they did through Ike...

[Manifestor_of_Light]

200. We definitely have square nails.

And the beams are true sized.

I was told that they platted the town from this house. It may well be true. The oldest deed I have is from 1882 and contains 500 acres. That would be about as big as the town is now.

Let's see if we can get some more DUers here for Memorial Day weekend as well!!

[bvar22]

168. Bill Moyers is also from Texas.

My Populist/Liberal roots are in Texas.


This guy is a proud Texan:


Texas is beautiful,
and belongs to us ALL.
Because Liberals are outnumbered in Texas is NOT a reason to abandon Texas.
It is a reason to move there and reclaim it.

In 2006, my wife & I moved from a Dark Blue Northern city (Minneapolis),
to a Very Red part of the Deep South.
Our Liberal vote weighs MORE here.


bvar22 & Starkraven
helping turn the South Blue

[kentauros]

194. What a great sign!

:rofl:
Is it you? ;)

And, Bill Moyers is another living legend we're all proud to call "Texan". We need more just like him :D

Is that your very nice green and blue porch there?
Thank you, too, for telling it like it is. I agree on all counts :hi:

[bvar22]

228. The "Tom Delay's Bitch" photo is one I stole from the InterNet Tubes.

The porch photo is our Home in The Woods (since 2006) in West Central Arkansas (Ouachita Mountains).

My mother was a farm girl, born & raised in NE Texas close to Athens.
Her father was an outspoken Populist/Liberal like Jim Hightower,
and her brother was a real life Atticus Finch.

My father's family was Union Railroad in Denton/Greenville until WW2.
A large photo of FDR dominated our kitchen/family room.
A large photo of JFK was placed under FDR after his assassination in 1963.


Both are gone now,
but would have been disgusted by what the Democratic Party has morphed into since LBJ.


"The only thing in the Middle of the Road
are Yellow Stripes and Dead Armadillos."--Jim Hightower

[elehhhhna]

169. Dont' forget Dan Rather.

[kentauros]

197. I didn't,

but, as I said upthread, my post would have read more like wikipedia if I had included all of the great Texans we've produced for the world :)

[calimary]

183. I just had this argument with my best friend, who moved to Texas because it was cheaper

among MANY other more personal reasons. I keep joking with her that I'm working really hard to rescue my friend from her hostage hold and bring her back to Blue State Safety.

I understand your concern about the people of Texas and all, but it's the people in Texas who voted for vermin like rick perry and tom delay and willie gohmert. I realize for every gohmert and delay and perry there's a Molly Ivins and Lloyd Bentsen and the magnificent Barbara Jordan. I realize there's NASA and an oasis in there called Austin where it's NOT all about "kickin' shit inta corners" and yeehawing while speeding around with open containers. But it just seems as though the Neanderthals drown out what's good about it. And then there's george w. bush. Need I say more? If it weren't for gullible voters in Texas who vote against their own best interests, we wouldn't have dubya to blight our national landscape or a war criminal among our presidents. I realize California also shoved nixon and reagan and howard jarvis up the nation's ass, too, so I'm not one to talk.

My friend defends rick perry, too. She evidently has met him on the celebrity charity circuit because she works with several charities. She says he's really nice and he's been a good governor and she absolutely insists he was only joking about that whole secession thing. It was pretty funny actually. Both my husband AND I jumped on that and we kinda argued about it. Because WE don't find it funny, and we said so. And she said he was trying for awhile to get a disaster declaration from the feds because of the fires, and we reminded her - uh, he wants money from Washington? He wants the federal government's help? Then he needs to STFU and apologize about making that secession wisecrack (if that's only what it was). She also insists that while there were efforts to rewrite the textbooks in a more Neanderthal way to cleanse the historical record about slavery etc., she said those efforts didn't get very far. I don't know enough about that issue to get into it more, but I hadn't heard anything about the "those efforts didn't get very far" part.

I don't hate Texas. I can't because my best friend lives there so there must be some redeeming qualities. But a whole lot of Texas doesn't make any sense to me. And I find some of the statements and actions coming out of Texas (and some Texans) to be downright hateful. And remember that vile woman with the purple heart bandaid on her chin during the 2004 campaign? It was a put-down of John Kerry's HARD-EARNED Purple Heart medals from Vietnam and all these assholes could do is demean and insult and degrade him - AND the Purple Heart medal itself (and thereby also kicking in the teeth every wounded American combat veteran who was ever deemed worthy of such a prestigious and highly-venerated honor). She was from Texas. And that vile woman (who's probably a teaRACIST by now) was also proud of having happily made sandwiches for all the Texas republi-CONS who were trying to chase down a group of Democrats who'd left the state in circumstances similar to those facing the Wisconsin 14.

[w8liftinglady]

186. I share your sentiment. However...

What is the more ethical approach...ignore and retreat or stay and attempt to change?
I have seen too many suffer here because of the Right Wing Mafia to retreat.
I'm staying. In a couple of years,when you are driving through Red Hell... drop by my free clinics...the ones started by the caring Democrats in Texas.
My friend will be doing OB/Gyn...I'll do the adult chronic illness folks. The need is in the millions here. I see the victims every day.

Texas Democrats need to work HARD to GOTV...drive voters ,sign up voters, work polls.Remind the guys at the bar and restaurants how the Republicans want to destroy America with their fascist lies. It is up to us. Are WE up to it?

[calimary]

201. Yeah, and you're one of those DUers, like my friend, who make me feel guilty about

my feelings about Texas. I shouldn't use such a broad brush. And you're certainly correct about Texas Dems. They DO need to work harder, because that's an awfully big state to have to rehabilitate.

[hangman86]

187. All I have to say is...

that any state that produces Bill Hicks deserves the same amount of love and respect as the bluest of blue states. Thanks for mentioning him along with all the other great Texans. :thumbsup: :smoke:

[sonias]

210. Bill Hicks was a fucking comedic genius

Absolutely loved him and still do. He's as relevant today as he was 20 years ago. Unfortunately that just means that things haven't changed that much in the country. :(

It was the best and worst of the state that gave him some of the material for his comedy. Although he picked on his family and the south in general too.

The newest documentary on Bill Hicks that debuted at SxSW last year is finally in release. Most of these dates have passed but you may keep an eye out on it on Netflix. It was a nice, intimate portrait of his life through accounts of his friends. Directed and produced by a couple of guys from UK. Bill was really, really big in Europe. They wanted to know why he wasn't absolutely revered here in the U.S. like in the UK.

American: The Bill Hicks Story
http://www.americanthemovie.com/

Cheers to Bill!
:toast:

[reggie the dog]

190. I think of willie nelson when i think of texas

hell when i was 16 i went to fort worth and met a girl named sarah, got laid for the first time in my life. i love texas...

[Redford]

195. I have lived all over the world and the US

Texas is by far the best place. I love it here.

[Call Me Wesley]

199. Great post, recced.

I have a lot of friends in Texas, Houston and Austin, and you, too. All proud and outspoken liberals.

But hey, I live in the South, too! ;)

[kentauros]

204. Thanks, CMW!

Are there "rednecks" in the south of Switzerland? ;)

There very well may be, if only called something else. I remember a German friend of mine basically taking a similar condescending attitude toward those parts of Germany to the south of her, and I kept my mouth shut, because they sounded like my kind of folk! ;)

[pintobean]

203. I like Texas. k/r

[kentauros]

206. I know this is kicking it to the top from the second page,

but I just wanted to thank everyone that posted! I knew I'd get some attention on it, just not like this! lol

I've enjoyed most everyone's thoughts on this topic, and I dare say, Texas has made a few more friends in the right places. Thank you all! :hi: :hug:

[BlueCollar]

215. I live in Texas and agree with all of your points

but, I will be leaving as soon as the opportunity presents itself.

[FormerDittoHead]

218. Animosity against Texas is their unabashed exceptionalism adding to their conservative majority.

Frankly, I'm annoyed at any state which goes on and on about itself so much it becomes part of their culture.

I just can't think of any other state that does that.

But as Texas brags about itself, it only invites one to tally the ways it is NOT the best state in the history of the world or any possible future.

PLEASE don't suggest that the people of Texas are humble.

They DO have a lot to be proud of, if you're into high school football and giant bonfires, but when you guys boast about Texas, I can't tell where the "we're great" begins and the "so much better than everyone else" ends.

[Paladin]

220. Stereotype Much? (n/t)

[FormerDittoHead]

221. Sorry.

When I said, "the people of Texas" I didn't mean every last one of them, but enough of them to justify Home Depot to sell cowboy hat shaped hard-hats in their stores.

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-17665666401044_2154_122473590

[Paladin]

223. Aw, How Sweet Of You.

So in other words, you're not talking about the 3.5 million Texans who cast votes for Obama in 2008? (Compared to 2.2 million in New Jersey)? That makes it all better.....

[FormerDittoHead]

225. You're right. I'm not talking about the minority of Texas, but the majority who control Texas.

I'm talking about the people who make all the decisions about your gov't, businesses and schools. The people who make the decisions which affect everyone in Texas.

The question isn't how one state does versus another one. Texas is a great state in many ways.

The point is how the vast majority of Texans brag so much about being THE BEST in comparison to other states, so much so it's a permanent part of Texas culture.

BTW TO ANSWER YOUR POST, How many electoral votes (the thing that counts) has each state given the Democratic party in Presidential races since 1988? (repeat, I was not the one to make comparisons - it's the exceptionalism of the majority that's the point I'm making)

Answers:

NJ: 90.

Texas: ZERO.

But AGAIN, Texas IS a great state in so many ways, but the EXCEPTIONALISM "of the vast majority" (whew! - I should hot key that!) is what invites one to make these observations.

PS: I find the exceptionalism from Great Britain to be just as annoying.

[hack89]

222. New England gave us the Bush family

Massachusetts, Connecticut for father and son. New York for the mother.

[ErikJ]

229. I hope they secede

I have 4 relatives who live in Texas and I think the political climate has infected their brains. One sends all the other 40 relatives those lying RW chain emails for which I have to regularly educate them with the facts. But they seem unphased and probably dont send me most anymore. Even though I'm sure most Texans are very, very nice people with their Southern hospitality and all, I say let them go it alone along with the whole south. Their overall political ignorance and pride are helping to turn the US into a 3rd world country of 2 classes, a few very rich and the rest poor.

[kentauros]

230. And we're back to the broad brush.

I guess my points to you in the subthread above either didn't sink in or went over your head. Perhaps you need a refresher?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1054746#1056795

[ErikJ]

232. I STILL hope they secede along with the South

They are BAD for me and the USA.

[kentauros]

234. Then you really have no clue about the big picture,

and there's no point discussing this with you.

[ErikJ]

235. As Thom Hartmann says, "Tag, Youre it!"

Now get involved, get out there and get organized to take back Texas from the RepubliCON corportatists. Hell, if I lived in that state I would be marching everyday and calling and writing my RepubliCON puke representatives everyday. They would never hear the end of it from me. Same with the letters to the editors etc. Go to the T-Parties and hand out fliers and signs showing which party REALLY gave us the $14 Trillion debt.

[cordelia]

238. Then you are bigot.

And stupid.

[ErikJ]

240. I know lots

of liberals who want them to secede. Maybe you should look up the definition of bigot. Something Southerners are famous for.

[L0oniX]

231. I'm not interested in digging for gold in a garbage can either.

[kentauros]

233. Care to elaborate?

That is part of my OP, to get the "haters" to open up and explain just why they hate Texas or would be happy if we went ahead and "seceded".

[TxVietVet]

236. I'm back home in Texas. I'm union born and bred.

I was born and raised in Texas. In a refinery town. Stinks to high heaven. But, I grew left a couple of times and finally after living and working all over the country, I retired back to a small town in Texas. A place I wasn't really familiar with. A lot has changed in the 22 years since I left. Now, there is a small town atmosphere in the air. People still flock to the Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo. AS a matter of fact, even the small rodeos draw a big crowd.
After living and working in the Midwest and working in New England, I'm glad to be back. When you go somewhere, strangers will great you with a hello. They don't insult you because you speak with a Texas or Southern accent. They don't assume your mother and father are closely related other than marriage and don't make comments about it either. They don't make fun of you if you ask a question. They don't assume you are here to steal their money, women or jobs. They aren't nearly as greedy as some folks I've met AWAY from here. Most of them aren't in a big f*cking rush to run over you to get to where ever the f*ck they are going. I've never been insulted for my service to my country or my service in Vietnam by people here in Texas.


I came back here to retire and enjoy life. Now, I moved 1200 miles and didn't know a soul in this small community. I volunteered my services as skilled labor for Habitat for Humanity. I also volunteer my skilled labor for other community service. I am here to help those that I can. It didn't take long and I've met quiet a few folks here that will help at the drop of the hat. I can't say that about other places I've lived and worked.


We have a community radio station that plays good Texas country music. Some traditional and some a little newer stuff. Not that crap they play on the big stations that call themselves country. On Friday nights, the local station has bash with regional talent in the parking lot of a restaurant. I never saw that anywhere else I've live and worked.

This is a place where people are still neighbors and look out for one another. Of course, lots of them believe the conservanazi bu$hit. Lots of them. I ask them if they've ever heard of Jim Hightower (of whom I've had the pleasure to meet in Milwaukee)and Molly Ivins. I try to educate them to counter their false beliefs in unions and just about every other notion they got from the conservanazis' propaganda.

I still love Texas. I enjoy the countryside. I ride my motorcycle through a lot of really rural places.
I wanted to be on the water and I am.
I love Texas. What else can I say. There's lots of other folks here that do too.

[w8liftinglady]

239. If you ever ride through Ellis County,give me a buzz

Waxahachie is a nationally known "Biker Friendly" town...there are some absolutely beautiful rides in Ellis and Henderson Counties.
We'll pop in the College Street Pub in Waxahachie,one of the few liberal - friendly hangouts here...

[TxVietVet]

241. Thanks for the invite. I love to ride.

I'd love to make it up that way. I ride quiet bit by myself. I want to take a distance trip. I'll see where Waxahachie is and maybe fit it in one day. I live at Lake Livingston. I made a trip today up to Crocket, then to Madisonville, down to Huntsville and back home. About 120miles. It was hot. I enjoyed every minute of it. I lived in Wisconsin and getting to ride was something of a job in itself. A warm or dry day.
I will be able to ride all 12 months here. The only time I didn't get to ride this past year was in December. In Wisconsin, my bike was in storage from late October to at least the middle of April.

If you come down to the Lake Livingston area, there are lots of roads in the Piney Woods of East Texas. Lots of wooded country.

[w8liftinglady]

242. Waxahachie is straight up 287 or I-35,depending on the route.

Good roads and lots of stuff to see along the way (We are also the hurricane evac route,btw)

[TxVietVet]

243. I rode about 30 miles on 287 today up to Crocket.

Thanks.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

246. Waxahachie.

Former home of my alma mater, Trinity University.
They moved to San Antonio to an abandoned limestone quarry in 1950.

[coalition_unwilling]

244. My favorite Texas joke:Q: what do you call a rat who swims toward

a sinking ship? A: John Connolly :)

I know, I know, the joke seriously dates me.

[Rex]

247. Just like every other state, Texas has a few people that hate the

state for spawning such God awful politicians and slimy business people...then there are the more abundant that lived here, hated it and moved. It is easy to find liberals in Texas, you just have to TRY. That is the failing of most people that don't live here and love to stereotype a states population.

[LanternWaste]

249. we should remember that it is a recourse due only to lack of substantive thought....

When Xenophobic Regionalism becomes one's recourse, we should remember that it is a recourse due only to lack of substantive thought.

Peruse this particular thread. Particularly note those who (with some seriousness) believe the regionalism to be valid. Then bear this in mind as you read other posts by them. You will most likely note a dramatic lack of substance, and a dramatic amount of simple denigration.

[Taverner]

250. I don't hate Texas. There are some Texans I hate...

But hell, there are some Californians, Bostonians and Berkeley-ites I hate...

My only problem with Texas is that the ganja is that brown crap :P