SEALs were sent to kill, not capture, bin-Laden

[cali]

Goal Was Never to Capture bin Laden
By Yochi Dreazen, Aamer Madhani & Marc Ambinder

May 4 2011, 9:26 AM ET Comment

The Navy SEALs knew their mission was to kill the al Qaeda leader, not take him alive

bin laden compound - AP Photo:Anjum Naveed - banner.jpg
Osama Bin Laden

In the weeks before President Obama ordered Navy SEALs into Pakistan in pursuit of Osama bin Laden, administration officials weighed using American warplanes to obliterate the terror mastermind's fortified compound from the sky or sending commandos on a high-risk mission to assault the structure from the ground.

But there's one option the administration appears to have never seriously considered: taking bin Laden alive.



In an important new detail about Sunday's raid, the White House disclosed on Tuesday that bin Laden was unarmed when the SEALs shot him in the head and chest, killing him instantly. The administration said that bin Laden resisted capture, but hasn't suggested in any of its public comments that the SEALs were in any immediate danger when they opened fire on him during their assault on his compound in an affluent Islamabad suburb of Abbottabad.

The SEALs' decision to fatally shoot bin Laden -- even though he didn't have a weapon - wasn't an accident. The administration had made clear to the military's clandestine Joint Special Operations Command that it wanted bin Laden dead, according to a senior U.S. official with knowledge of the discussions. A high-ranking military officer briefed on the assault said the SEALs knew their mission was not to take him alive.

<snip>

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/05/goal-was-never-to-capture-bin-laden/238330/

[dipsydoodle]

1. Colour me surprised

NOT.

[Dr Fate]

2. Good. n/t

n/t

[FarPoint]

19. Ditto

It was essential to kill him.

[Hoopla Phil]

3. Would this violate the law against assassination?

[aquart]

7. Go prosecute. Good luck.

[Hoopla Phil]

12. I'm not a prosecutor. I'm asking a question that I do not know the answer to. Do you?

[browntyphoon]

9. We don't assassinate political figures. Terrorists don;t count.

[Hoopla Phil]

13. Thanks for the info. Did not realize there was a distinction.

[Marr]

20. We assassinate political figures. Reagan's attempt to kill Khadaffi

with jets was no less an assassination attempt than some lone gunman attempting the same with a pistol.

Law rarely, if ever, trumps political expediency.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

34. What law...I believe it is an executive order

[blondeatlast]

43. I thought he said as much in the announcement.

:shrug:

[Marrah_G]

46. He is not the leader of a country or region

he is the leader of a criminal organization.

[leftynyc]

55. That law is for Heads of State

Don't think the mass murdering scum qualifies.

[aquart]

4. Yeah. That was the mission.

I would have spit on any other mission.

Glad to know Obama wasn't stupid about this.

[seabeyond]

5. which OBAMA said from minute one. kill mission. war. nt

[JuniperLea]

22. The only surprise to me is how so many here...

Who chastised Obama for going on a kill mission when he first said it, have now forgotten he said it at all. Fancy that.

[seabeyond]

23. yup. lol. geeez this is reminding me of .... ya. nt

[tallahasseedem]

6. Good.

I'm glad that he's dead. I personally hope he suffered.

[OhioChick]

8. Good n/t

[LostInAnomie]

10. If they say he resisted, I believe them.

I don't care if he just sneezed loudly, that's enough.

[JuniperLea]

36. Who knows if he had a gun stashed in his room?

Wouldn't you if you were wanted by half the Earth's population? I sure as hell would. Any movement other than hands up while saying "I surrender" can't be trusted.

[Marr]

11. Capturing him doesn't make sense.

Killing bin Laden was essentially a symbolic/political victory. It's not going to actually change much of anything.

Having him in custody would introduce all sorts of complications. There would be calls for a trial, and even if that all went well, the execution would be a spectacle-- whether it was visible or not. It would inflame much of the middle east.

Then you've got the burial to consider. If his grave is accessible, it's going to be a shrine for certain people and go a long way to elevating bin Ladin's martyr status.

I'm not surprised at all that the politicians would opt for a kill and a quick burial at sea, and I can't say that I'd choose differently, were I in their positions.

[mmonk]

14. Now who's the bigger man?

Obama or Bush?

[Sinistrous]

37. Please elaborate.

In this context, your question makes little, if any, sense.

[mmonk]

60. We seem to measure success in this way.

And everyone wants bragging rights. It's not that I'm against taking him out if you have the chance. It's just capture if you had the chance would seem like success in my eyes as well.

[coalition_unwilling]

15. Explain to me again how the U.S. is any different or morally

superior to al Quaida or OBL?

Try as I might, I no longer can see much distinction.

"We have met the enemy and it is us." ~Pogo

[FarPoint]

28. You just don't get it...

So no one came explain it to you. You have to feel the right decision in such situations. This soul was black...vacant and gone. He would of continued his terror even as a prisoner.

[Dr Fate]

31. We have freedom of religion, speech, association, elections- and we are not ruled by a crazy cult?

While you could argue that conservatives are trying to destroy these things, here are some distictions right off the bat.

[coalition_unwilling]

61. To your list, we can now add summary executions without trial. - n/t

[Dr Fate]

67. The difference is we killed one guy w/o a trial. He killed 3000 w/o trial.

We kill dudes who lead attacks and stuff on us. Been going on for some time now.

Sure, go ahead and and that to the list of disticintions. He kills 3000 American civillians w/o trials, then we kill the guy who bragged about killing 3,000 w/o a trial.

Fair enough. I'm able to see the disticintion if others still cannot.

That is, assuming the OP is even correct- for all I know, they shot the guy in reasonable anticiapation that he would attack, set off a booby trap, etc.

Sorry, I'm gonna trust Obama's judgment on this one.

[leftynyc]

56. Well, for starters

I can walk out of my house wearing anything I want, can date and marry anyone I want and don't have to worry about a male member of my family beating or killing me for it. Our guys could have just dropped a big bomb on that compound and killed everyone and went the far more dangerous route to limit the loss of life. Fucking al queda wouldn't do any of that. Is that enough proof for your incredibly sophmoric question?

[sharesunited]

16. Like in the movie "Munich."

[JuniperLea]

17. Obama used the word "kill" himself...

This is no surprise, and I'm betting that if people had been asked what to do with him once found, most would say kill him.

I'm a capture and study the freak person myself, but I am beginning to be okay with this outcome.

[backscatter712]

18. He was a military target, and we sent soldiers to do the job.

It's not law-enforcement, it's military operations, against an enemy that has in the past inflicted great harm on the people of the United States and repeated promised to do so again.

Our President and our soldiers committed an act of war. They don't have to be fair.

Let's just say that when the President of the United States sends an elite SEAL team to blow your brains out, you made some reeeeeally bad decisions.

[Luminous Animal]

21. Thoroughly depressing responses on this thread. WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE BETTER THAN THIS.

What the fuck! What happened to the rule of law! Assassinations are okay now? Who else should we assassinate?

[Poll_Blind]

24. It boils down to this: You are, they're not. It's awful to be in that position, sometimes, but...

...when you see a kind of groupthink swallow up everything you think represents a major selling point of your society, you have to realize that maybe the percentage of moral people is, sadly, a lot lower than one would hope.

Also, remember that people self-select to post (or not), so you're just seeing (in this and in many other threads) those who self-selected to post their opinion.

PB

[Dr Fate]

I agree- you 2 are better than the people who dont feel sorry, ashamed, outraged, etc.

The rest of us have obviously have some spiritual evolving to do.

[Solomon]

44. Yesh yesh, they are far far superior to the rest of us.

OH Holy Ones. We beseech the for forgiveness.

[leftynyc]

57. I'm evolved plenty

I don't have any desire to become a hand wringing, petpetually outraged wimp. Thanks anyway.

[seabeyond]

29. ya. i think you ought to challenge the dalai lama on his morality.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1034426

[Luminous Animal]

42. Despite the lying headlines, the Dalai Lama did not suggest that Osama be assassinated.

"As a human being, Bin Laden may have deserved compassion and even forgiveness, the Dalai Lama said in answer to a question about the assassination of the Al Qaeda leader. But, he said, "Forgiveness doesn't mean forget what happened. … If something is serious and it is necessary to take counter-measures, you have to take counter-measures."

What makes you think that counter-measures means assassination?

[Solomon]

45. He went on to add that mosquitos deserve compassion too

but if one's carrying malaria, he'd swat it dead.

Ya satisfied? Nice try.

[Luminous Animal]

63. He was not linking Osama and mosquitos. He was asked if he had ever committed an unethical act...

"To a question on whether His Holiness could think of any unethical acts that he had committed, His Holiness responded in the positive referring to “my relation with mosquitoes,” much to the amusement of the audience. His Holiness expanded saying if there was no risk of malaria then he would tolerate a mosquito or two sucking blood from his arm but when they come one after another, he would lose his patience."

http://www.dalailama.com/news/post/672-his-holiness-talks-about-secular-ethics-and-human-development-at-university-of-southern-california


Lies, lies and more lies.

[Dr Fate]

25. Who else should we assassinate?

Anyone else who kills 3000 Americans, then brags about it?

I'm not gonna lose a wink of sleep over this. Not one wink.

[JVS]

41. There's a lot of hypocrites.

[MS68]

59. Anybody who commands or inspires

Somebody to board a plane with children on it, look them in the eye and then fly them into a building.

[kestrel91316]

26. He started war against America. We fought back. He died. End of story.

[H2O Man]

27. Of course.

Thank you for posting this -- although I know you knew this, it is of value for those who did not understand this.

Recommended.

[oberliner]

30. What's your take on this?

Do you object to the mission if this is correct?

[PufPuf23]

32. kr

[HereSince1628]

33. Anyone know if there a name for this sort of decision?

If a court makes a decision without a trial it's called Summary Judgment. Was this Executive Judgement?

I'm not criticizing it, rather I'm looking for the right way to name it. Is this just an Executive Order? Or is it part of a Letter of Mark and Reprisal? Just wondering how it folds into our form of government.

[Wait Wut]

35. Not enough room on the helicopter

Killing him meant they could put him in baggage. If they kept him alive they'd have to treat him like he was human and give him an actual seat with a seatbelt.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

38. The author clearly misunderstands the difference between the military and the police

Clearly the administration could have and should have gotten its story correct from the start and it looks amateurish of them not to have done so. Regardless, the SEALs are not assassins. Whoever double tapped OBL, would have had cause. Pros do not slay prisoners and will not accept orders to do so.

[kentuck]

48. Why do you think we train snipers?

Just to shoot armed enemies?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

49. Shooting a legitimate military target at long range is not the same as shooting a prisioner

If OBL had clearly surrendered, he would not have been double tapped. Since he did not, I have no problem with him getting shot. There is no onus on the part of the military to accept an iota of increased risk to capture enemy combatants.

You can not shoot a prisoner but shooting a resisting enemy combatant is legitimate. Any order to shoot a prisoner would and should be refused.

[kentuck]

52. It doesn't matter ...

They questioned Harry Truman the same way when he decided to drop the A-bomb.

They decided, that in the national interest, it was best to get rid of him as soon as possible.

They did not want the spectacle of a trial, of Red Cross visits, of riots in other countries demanding that he be released or else, that he was not being tortured, that he was being given due time for his religious beliefs, that he was being fed the right kind of food, that he was being legitimately defended by an attorney, and so forth and so forth.

This is not the first time the military has done such deeds. Or the CIA, for that matter. Even in the movies, they send a Captain up the river to "get rid of" Colonel Kurtz. In an ideal world, you might be absolutely right.

[Spike89]

39. Always be "what ifs" and we can parse all night

What if Osama had thrown his hands up and surrendered immediately? Who knows if the Seals would've still taken him down? He was unarmed, but did he threaten? Was he protected by bodyguards? Military or police-style operation?

All I know is that I'm glad Osama isn't in custody, I think that would have been worse than having him remain free. Obviously he'd have been a lightning rod to rekindle AQ throughout his imprisonment and trial, then a martyr once jailed/executed. I also think we'd have had a hard time actually convicting him on the 9-11 charges--basically the evidence is pretty sketchy outside of his self-serving tapes.

It is cleaner this way, even if conspiracy talk is inevitable. I do believe the squad was sent in expecting to kill Osama. I guess I will myself to believe that they weren't sent in to assasinate him (i.e., they'd have captured him if he surrendered). We'll probably never know for sure and I'm good with that too.

[kenny blankenship]

40. Fine by me.

If you think it through carefully there is no way you could eliminate the possibility that OBL might escape. Under the circumstances- having to fly in a small force by helicopter at night through Pakistani airspace, just 40 miles from their capital, not being able to ask for cooperation or information from the Pakistanis- shooting OBL on sight is the only way to be sure he could not end up escaping somehow. There would always be a risk that he gets away even if everything went right with the raid but then the helicopter crashes in the mountains on the ride home. Also there is Pakistani military presence in Abbottabad, and you can't be sure that the ISI isn't actually babysitting bin Laden with a couple houses full of expert fighters stationed in his neighborhood. If there's trouble down at the Ol' Bin Laden Place, the quiet streets of Abbottabad might fill suddenly with AK47 & RPG toting ISI men who rush into the compound and engage your hovering helicopters, stranding your Seal team and letting bin Laden get away. They won't take your guys prisoner either. So, bin Laden is either dead but you don't have the confirmation, or he survives and becomes even harder to find. Ten years you've been searching for him. Ten years at the top of the world's most wanted terrorist list. After ten years you had him - but if he isn't killed on the spot or the mission somehow doesn't come back with him alive, he would have slipped through your fingers. Let's not forget that you are risking a lot more than just the lives of 30 or 40 special operations men. If your net doesn't come up with bin Laden, Pakistan will accuse you of "invasion!" and "acts of war!" In other words, you WON'T get another chance at this if it fails. So yeah, shoot him on sight.

[Raffi Ella]

47. Good Decision.

Thank You, Mr. President and a big ol' Job Well Done to the SEALS. :patriot:

[lpbk2713]

50. Boosh had his Mission Accomplished ... Obama had his.

It's over. Move on.

[meow mix]

51. Good, im glad the fuckers dead.

:toast:

[Permanut]

53. Anybody remember the suicide bombers?

Bin Laden had stated that he wouldn't be taken alive. How much time do you think the SEALS had to ponder whether he had a weapon with him, within reach, strapped to him? Anybody think they had time for a committee meeting with tea and cookies to discuss it?

[WinkyDink]

54. One cannot "resist capture," if "capture" is not offered.

[Common Sense Party]

58. Personally, I wish they could have forced him to jump from the top

of a burning skyscraper, but this'll do.

The world is better off with one less madman.

[WonderGrunion]

62. I don't care if Osama was in the process of providing life saving plasma

To cherub-looking young girls with leukemia, I would have supported them killing him while helpless on the gurney.

[MrSlayer]

64. As was right and proper.

They did a great job of it too.

[Ikonoklast]

65. Works for me!

I don't have any tears to spare for mass murderers meeting their timely demise.

He lived ten years longer than the people he slaughtered.

[johnaries]

66. Oh, goodie. Yet another anonymous source.

They've proven to be so accurate and reliable :sarcasm:

:eyes:

[Cerridwen]

68. An anonymous source tries to undermine the fact that

President Obama succeeded where bush failed.

Those bush land mines sure are all over the news.

edit to add link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1052015