Osama bin Laden Hideout 'Worth Far Less Than US Claimed'

[tekisui]

Source: Guardian

Osama bin Laden's house, described by the US government as a $1m (£605,000) mansion, is in fact worth no than $250,000 say property professionals in Abbottabad, the town where he was killed.

The revelation is the latest of several erroneous descriptions about the nature of Bin Laden's hideout – and the manner of his death – which have dogged the White House in recent days.

On Tuesday US officials retracted claims that Bin Laden was armed when killed, and that he had used one of his wives as a human shield.

Descriptions of Bin Laden's hideout have also been prone to exaggeration. After Sunday night's dramatic raid by US Navy Seals, a senior Obama administration official told reporters that the property, an "extraordinarily unique compound" in an "affluent suburb", was valued at around $1m.

more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/04/osama-bin-laden-hideout-worth

[Solly Mack]

1. LMAO. My laughter isn't intended to offend anyone.

The WH had to know that every little word, phrase and fact would be raked over and checked for nuance. Whether they knew it or not, it is and has been since OBL's death made the news. I am amused by the damnedest things. lololol

[woo me with science]

2. Well here it is.

Does anyone really care?

[LiberalFighter]

10. Didn't they also say that it was built sometime in this century?

Maybe remodel or retrofitted for his purposes. But the house itself doesn't look recently built.

Also, didn't they say that there weren't any windows on the road side? This looks like it might be the road side and what do we see?

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

3. Well, yeah, there's a lot of damage from fire and bullets

The place is a fixer-upper now.

[seabeyond]

4. WHO was the first person to give to reporters it was a million? nt

[tekisui]

8. Likely someone speaking in official capacity for the WH.

[seabeyond]

11. i read from one of the people giving misinformation first night. official FAMILIAR with

situation wanting anonymity.

and media running with it.

but what the fuck.... we will call obama (maybe not you) a liar from that.

unless you know the source, the blame goes to a media that rushes a story

and a public that cannot discern an evolving story

[Solomon]

17. The media is just damned irresponsible.

It's a circus.

[Luminous Animal]

28. Well, you are wrong. See my post below. Senior Administration Officials put out this misinformation

It is right there on the Whitehouse.gov website.

[seabeyond]

31. ya, and see my response. nt

[emulatorloo]

13. Are you sure?

[Luminous Animal]

29. I am. See my links from the White House press briefings in this post...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1032753&mesg_id=1033537

[Luminous Animal]

26. John Brennan.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/05/02/press-briefing-senior-administration-officials-killing-osama-bin-laden

" Thinking about that from a visual perspective, here is bin Laden, who has been calling for these attacks, living in this million dollar-plus compound, living in an area that is far removed from the front, hiding behind women who were put in front of him as a shield. I think it really just speaks to just how false his narrative has been over the years. And so, again, looking at what bin Laden was doing hiding there while he’s putting other people out there to carry out attacks again just speaks to I think the nature of the individual he was."

And a Senior Administration Official:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/05/02/press-briefing-senior-administration-officials-killing-osama-bin-laden

"It’s also noteworthy that the property is valued at approximately $1 million but has no telephone or Internet service connected to it. The brothers had no explainable source of wealth."

It's all there on the Whitehouse.gov site.

[seabeyond]

30. so, the reason they looked at that house more closely is they thought it was worth APPR that amount

and made no sense that they would have no phone and computer.

damn glad they didnt see its worth at 250k

[Luminous Animal]

33. There is no cock up you won't excuse, is there.

So it isn't the evil media's fault now?

[seabeyond]

36. the stupid in reading what was being said, being OUTRAGED the man got the cost of the house wrong.

it wasnt about lying about the cost. the man was giving a damn report WHY they took a second look at the house. it was not about LYING to people that the house was worth more than what was stated.

for people to even be outraged about this is the silliest, stupidest bullshit

[Bragi]

44. It's a wrong statement in a string of wrong statements

Why are you so defensive when the evidence is clear that the Obama communications shop fucked up here?

I think Obama deserves better communications support than he's getting, and I don't think it is disloyal or treasonous to make this point.

[seabeyond]

55. they were doing an investigation looking for obl saw a house they thought too expensive to not have

phone and internet so they looked at it closer.

wow

the asses

when they had come to these conclusions they were far from thinking about the presser after they got obl.

[Bragi]

58. You're becoming incoherent

That can happen when you try to defend stuff that isn't true or try to excuse errors that ought to be acknowledged.

[seabeyond]

60. makes sense to me. maybe you ought to become informed where that $ of house

came into play. then it might make better sense. but if you are not actually trying to become informed, with your lack of knowledge, just accuse the administration, i can understand your confusion

fromt he beginning it was said, during the investigation to obl and the currier, they came upon this house. the house caught their attention cause it was a million dollar property with NO phone or internet service. that did not make sense to the investigators so they took a closer look at this million dollar home without internet or phone service. one of the reasons they decided osama was probably in there and was able to go after him

the million dollar home was an investigation tool. it was not used to dupe you and all the rest. they looked at the property adn decided it was a million dollar home. they probably did not call a realtor thinking they would have to have the exact cost, for you. there info worked for them.

[Bragi]

63. Exactly

I can accept your explanation without any problem, and conclude that the officials had no reason to use the $1 million figure with the media since they apparently did not actually know the value of the house.

They could have said "expensive" and that would have made the piont and been fine. Instead, they pulled the $1 million number out of their asses and claimed that to be the value of the house.

This is often how communications fuck-ups happen. People assume information they don't know for sure to be true, they go public with the information, and then find out they're wrong. If they do this with too many facts, then their credibility takes a dive.

This is the kind of fuck-up that the Obama White House needs to avoid on a major event like the killing of OBL. It illustrates my point that Obama is being poorly served by his comms operation.

[seabeyond]

64. i couldnt not even get thru the first fuckin sentence before chanting are you fuckin serious

really fuckin serious

whatever

who the fuck cares... oh wait, you do. jeez us.

obviously you just want to try to find soemthing, anything.

i am going to read a book

get informed or stay nasty

[Bragi]

65. Really, the first sentence?

Have you a reading problem?

[frylock]

66. you're the only person in this thread that is outraged

[Luminous Animal]

73. Who is outraged? I merely pointed out to you that you were mistaken in your assessment

of the misinformation.

You claimed it came from an unnamed source and the media blindly reported it. Your conclusion was false. Consequently, you moved the goal posts. When one excuse doesn't fly, you use another.

[seabeyond]

74. it was still an unnamed source... but further, taken out of contrast and show the ridiculous

that people called it out.

[Luminous Animal]

75. It was an officially arranged phone call with SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/05/02/press-briefing-senior-administration-officials-killing-osama-bin-laden

Are you claiming that reporters should not take these kind of briefings seriously until the Administration coughs up some names?

John Brennan, clearly not unnamed, catapulted the propaganda with this (that is, John Bennan used the million dollar figure for propaganda purposes):

" Thinking about that from a visual perspective, here is bin Laden, who has been calling for these attacks, living in this million dollar-plus compound, living in an area that is far removed from the front, hiding behind women who were put in front of him as a shield. I think it really just speaks to just how false his narrative has been over the years. And so, again, looking at what bin Laden was doing hiding there while he’s putting other people out there to carry out attacks again just speaks to I think the nature of the individual he was."

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/05/02/press-briefing-press-secretary-jay-carney-and-assistant-president-homela

[seabeyond]

76. yes, who got the information from investigators a year prior, who didnt think at all to call agent

for the true cost of the house

fry 'em

[Luminous Animal]

77. Reading minds now, eh?

[Bragi]

43. And here's the money shot:

I think it really just speaks to just how false his narrative has been over the years

This condemnation of "false narratives" comes from a sloppy White House communications operation whose official storyline on the killing continues to require daily reversals due to contradictions that keep cropping up.

Obama deserves better communications support than this.

[Skink]

5. I'd like to know if this is where he always stayed?

[Ganja Ninja]

6. OK so it's a fixer upper. n/t

[Old and In the Way]

7. Anyone with Google Earth knew-

The property wasn't 8X bigger than the surrounding buildings in the neighborhood. And if OBL paid $1.1MM, he got ripped off. But I understand that the distortions were probably directed more towards the audiences in the ME. All of the bogus details were meant to deflate the OBL mythology at the moment when his death was announced. If that helped to defuse a martyr movement, I'm fine with that.

Of course, given the historical nature of the event...it may well become a million dollar property, just as a tourist attraction.

[lonestarnot]

9. So do we have a crooked appraiser and sleezy mortgage co. boosting the price now. Pakistanis

learning American lessons about how it is done? Who's going to run with the money? Who gives a fuck how much it was/is worth?

[spanone]

12. does anyone really care?

[Bragi]

45. Yes, becasue the official storyline keeps changing /nt

[alcibiades_mystery]

54. Those looking for something to criticize care

The vast majority of people are happy with the decision and the result, and don't get to worried about silly small details. People looking to get outraged over something, on the other hand, have found their piddling target. Luckily, few people give a good goddamn, so they're only likely to alienate themselves more.

[Redd817]

14. the "million dollar" thing

I think the “million dollar” description was an exaggeration to drive home the point of how ridiculous it was that he was living in this big ass house in "suburban" Pakistan and supposedly no-one in Pakistan knew he was there. I think it got taken a little too far to say million dollar mansion, but the general idea is that he wasn't in a cave in the boonies but instead in a relatively large comfortable house or whatever.

[riderinthestorm]

23. Or it was created to emphasize how OBL lived in luxury while urging austerity on his followers

I think I read that the last 6 AQ "top leaders" who have been captured, have been found living in middle class - upper middle class homes, in good suburbs. Certainly not roughing it like the "myths" they propagate. Just another bit of chipping away at the AQ organization's credibility with the people perhaps.

Welcome to DU!

[OxQQme]

15. Pics from populist-talk@yahoogroups

http://cryptome.org/eyeball/obl-kill/obl-kill.htm

[Broderick]

25. no phone or internet was reported

but it looks to have a satellite dish.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tekisui]

19. Over valued by 4 times. No it doesn't change anything substantive.

And I don't understand you reading 'extreme outrage' into posting an article form a reputable and respected paper. I just like to take note of any chips in the official story.

[Sheepshank]

32. There's been an official release outside of Obama's original statment?

[seabeyond]

40. yes... it does change things. cause they thought the house was so much, they took a closer look

because it had no internet or phone service and mde no sense to them.

so YEA.... they got the cost of the house wrong

[seabeyond]

39. and damn good thing they did cause it is what made them take a CLOSER look at a house at a million

without phone or internet

i cannot believe people can find a reason to be outraged about this

[Sheepshank]

56. and just who came up with the $1M valuation?

imho, it wasn't the valuation that brought closer scrutiny on the property. It was the location, size, security measures, accessibility, garbage burning, structure of privacy walls, lack of data uses etc lead to the scrutiny. Not because someone placed and valuation on the property.

The valuation was simply a propaganda tool after the fact.

[seabeyond]

57. it is in many of the reports that told us how they focused on the house. post 26 gave me a site.

When the compound was built in 2005, it was on the outskirts of the town center, at the end of a narrow dirt road. In the last six years, some residential homes have been built nearby. The physical security measures of the compound are extraordinary. It has 12- to 18-foot walls topped with barbed wire. Internal wall sections -- internal walls sectioned off different portions of the compound to provide extra privacy. Access to the compound is restricted by two security gates, and the residents of the compound burn their trash, unlike their neighbors, who put the trash out for collection.

The main structure, a three-story building, has few windows facing the outside of the compound. A terrace on the third floor has a seven-foot wall privacy -- has a seven-foot privacy wall.

It’s also noteworthy that the property is valued at approximately $1 million but has no telephone or Internet service connected to it. The brothers had no explainable source of wealth.

Intelligence analysts concluded that this compound was custom built to hide someone of significance. We soon learned that more people were living at the compound than the two brothers and their families. A third family lived there -- one whose size and whose makeup matched the bin Laden family members that we believed most likely to be with Osama bin Laden. Our best assessment, based on a large body of reporting from multiple sources, was that bin Laden was living there with several family members, including his youngest wife.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/05/02/press-briefing-senior-administration-officials-killing-osama-bin-laden

[Sheepshank]

59. still no reference of who came up with the valuation...

...and still no vindication that it was the valuation that was in any way responsible for the scruitiny. Without any reference to teh valuation, a big house, with extra tall walls, not pc or phone, no garbage being oput out etc,,,those would have been the triggers for scruity. Again, I firmly believe that the valuation was given after the fact, and as a propganda tool, not as a tool/reason to invade the compound by SEALs.

[seabeyond]

62. they are doing a fuckin investigation. i am sure the investigators did not consider they had to get

exact cost of the home. in investigting they said.... wait, a million dollar home? no phone? no internet?

they did not say, you know, gotta get the exact damn cost of home so we wont be called liars if in a year or two we kill obama in this home and media pick up fuckin MILLION fickin DOLLAR home

for real?

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bragi]

47. What do you mean?

Surely you agree that it is disloyal to Obama to question the brilliance of his communications operations, especially during a time when the official storyline on a sensitive major event keeps unraveling.

[TransitJohn]

69. No surprise it was deleted.

As usual, one sided moderation on DLC Underground.

[Distant Observer]

20. Sadly, NOT MUCH of the OFFICIAL STORY created to maximize propagada effect, WAS TRUE

[Bragi]

48. Ah, yeah, but, ah, well... U.S.A! U.S.A! /nt

[girl gone mad]

72. And I got called a conspiracy nut..

for saying a lot of it sounded bogus.

[guitar man]

21. Eh

maybe when they first saw it it had more curb appeal, but when they finally got inside the joint they found out it was a real dump. :D

[treestar]

22. IMO doesn't matter how much that place was worth

Osama was there. Obama got him. Mansion or hovel, Obama got Osama.

[TheCowsCameHome]

24. Looks like a lot of the Super 8's

[Cali_Democrat]

Anyone who saw the pictures could see

That was definitely no $1 million mansion.

[leftynyc]

27. So what?

I love how all the little gnats think this kind of stuff is important. Osama is dead and Americans SEASs killed him. Everything else are just unimportant details.

[Peacetrain]

34. Who cares? Seriously who really cares about this..

I mean so they got it the cost of the place off..

[Marrah_G]

35. I don't care what it was worth

I honestly don't care if he was unarmed and shot in front of his family.

I'm glad he won't be able to harm anyone else.

[renegade000]

37. Huh, interesting.

The secret training replica in Afghanistan might have actually been $1 million to construct using US contractors rather than local builders. Perhaps that's where they got the figure

:shrug:

[Javaman]

38. Boy, I bet his neighbor will be pissed! nt

[Quezacoatl]

41. There is just no excuse for that!

The President should have withheld the announcement of Bin Laden's death until after they had a professional real estate appraisal of the property done.

I hope they have learned their lesson.

[Bragi]

49. Or maybe...

Or maybe the White House could have stopped making statements on details of the operation until they knew them to be true.

The point being, there was no compelling reason to go with this announcement late Sunday nights.

They thought they were doing a PR coup, but in fact, they were making statements that had no foundation and carried a high-risk of being debunked.

Obama deserves better communications support.

[alcibiades_mystery]

52. ROFL

That's about the speed of many of these posts.

:rofl:

[emulatorloo]

71. LOL- if I could req your post I would n/t

[Arkansas Granny]

42. What difference does it make what the compound cost? The important thing

to be is where he was living, not the actual building he was living in.

[Bragi]

51. It's another part of the story that is unraveling

That's why it matters. If this was the only inaccuracy, it would easily be explained. The problem is that the official storyline was filled with inaccuracies. This is just one more to add to the list.

[alcibiades_mystery]

53. It matters to people who care about the "story" because they're looking for something to crtiticize

They can't criticize the decision or the result, so they've glommed on to the "story."

It's not useful to pay to much attention to such stupidity, but it is fun to laugh at it.

[DefenseLawyer]

46. Location! Location! Location! n/t

[alcibiades_mystery]

50. And yet, Osama bin Laden is still dead

I'll leave it to the haters to get outraged over developing-story details.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

61. Those motherfuckers.

They were trying to flip it. :evilgrin:

[HappyMe]

68. !!!

:rofl:

[HappyMe]

67. I really don't give a crap that they got the

dollar amount wrong. In the big picture, it doesn't matter.

I suppose people will want Navy Seals trained in international real estate values now. :crazy:

[LostInAnomie]

70. Oh Gawd, No!! The whole thing is unraveling!! I bet Osama isn't even dead!!

God damn, people clutching onto any petty bullshit is fucking childish. Who gives a fuck that the real estate value was off!?