IMO, ...What happened with bin Laden is the way we should have been reacting to 9-11 all along

[Armstead]

It's 20-20 hindsight, but I do recall back in the years immediately after 9-11 that there were people who argued that instead of large-scale, full fledged wars, we should have been conducting a more focused police-style campaign against the actual perpetrators and supporters of Al Quadah.

In other words, get rid of the termites without burning down the house.

Much of what is involved in police-style actions is distasteful, to say the least. In the case of bin Laden, the concept of troops busting into a house and assassinating someone seems particularly distasteful. And it leads to other implications, like the US conducting and condoning torture, taking spying to extremes etc....It would also have taken a lot of vigilance to make sure it doesn't become an excuse for unconstitutional widespread police-state abuses below the radar.

However, IMO, it is a matter of lessers of evils. And actions like the raid this week are much preferable to the other "bull in china shop" response that we have seen over the last 10 years-- one needless war in Iraq, one nebulous war of indeterminate length in Afghasnistan. And we STILL have to contend with the distasteful aspects of police-style campaigns anyway, albeit on a larger scale. (Remember Abu Garahbe?)

So, as much as what happened in Pakistan on Sunday makes my stomach turn, focused actions like that are far preferable to the larger problems that have resulted from the other approach of "conventional large-scale warfare" i.e. the War on Terror.

[sinkingfeeling]

1. I think John Kerry brought that up in the 2004 debates and was very ridiculed by the GOP.

[Armstead]

2. You're correct...It was a right-wing meme

[malaise]

5. Not just ridiculed

They made his comments part of their ads to show Democratic weakness re national security.

[Armstead]

12. In the race between brains and unthinking emotion.....

emotion often wins, unfortunately.

[truedelphi]

32. Or as Jon Stewart once remarked to Kerry

Right before they had an interview, "Senator, tell the truth now. Where you EVEN IN Vietnam?"

Kerry responded with a big grin, and the audience went nuts laughing.

[blm]

34. MSM headline: Kerry Never Served in Vietnam!

Some say Kerry never even served in Vietnam.

[seabeyond]

3. many argued that. but bush did have support with war because of trauma

but, many people thought the better choice, more cost effective was police type investigation. was an argument between dems and repugs, and repugs won on it. kerry in 2004 reiterated and was not supported. a man who knows what the fuck he is talking about.

we were all into the knuckle dragging macho man at that time.

that policy fails

[Armstead]

8. We let our collective lizard id overwhelm common sense after 9-11

[seabeyond]

11. i didnt define it in that manner. but that is exactly what happened.

we had the opportunity to take a huge stepped forward as a people. we chose to take quite a few steps back.

[truedelphi]

36. And those of us who didn't lose our lizard id over it

Are considered unpatriotic!

[blm]

4. That was Kerry's position...back then all wellknown Dems (Clinton, Biden) on TV sided with Bush

on his decisions.

Actually, Kerry held that position prior to 9-11. He always thought that carpet-bombing a country created more enemies and more backlash in the long run. He thought that missions should be handled with specially trained forces meeting the enemy on the ground to increase the opportunity to eliminate the more committed combatants and lessen the chances of killing innocents and civilians.

Biden did finally come around more to Kerry's position by the end of 2006.

I did appreciate Lawrence O'Donnell's recognition last night that Kerry's direction (despite the constant hits he took for it from the hawks in both parties and the ignoranti in the media) was the correct one.

[Armstead]

6. That was an example of a thoughtful response being drowned out by emotional jingoism

[RC]

7. See how terrorism is a crime and it was not a nation that attacked us on 9/11

It should have been treated as such. Investigations, capture, open trials and imprisonment. Bill Clinton did it correctly.
bu$h the lesser showed us how not to do things. By invading a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 and killing a million innocent people and destroying a reasonably civilized country. Exposing CIA spy and crippling our eyes and ears in the middle East. Whose side was/are bush/cheney really on?

If we had to invade a country to avenge 9/11, Saudi Arabia is still a more appropriate country to invade.

[blm]

13. Bill did it correctly in 93 but then publicly sided with Bush's military tactics from 2001-2007.

He only dampened his defense of Bush's military leadership after the Nov2006 election when the 2008 primary forced him to backpedal.

[woo me with science]

9. Kerry was right.

And it is heresy to say it, but I think we overplayed it completely in the media.

We should have quietly and quickly rebuilt the towers.

Instead, we allowed them to change our entire way of life and run us into bankruptcy.

[sufrommich]

10. I'll echo what some have said above. As John Kerry tried to

tell everyone,this should have been treated as a police action instead of a war. We had the same capabilities we have today.

[rucky]

14. Rec'd!

This is the discussion we should be having. Once we get past "is he really dead?" and "does Obama deserve credit?" maybe we could actually address the underlying issue of how to break-up terrorist cells in, say, under 10 years.

[patrice]

15. Hey! We're Exceptional! We can squander it **ALL** and God will save us.

[Armstead]

16. I think we're learning the fallacy of that pretty quickly

...or maybe not learning it -- but experiencing the results of it.

[patrice]

19. I used to come across people when I canvassed for Nuclear Freeze, back when, at their

front doors, who would tell me that we could go all of the way and "push the buttons" for nuclear war and nothing would happen, because Jesus is proof that God loves us too much to allow a nuclear war to happen.

I kid you not!

. . . and I'm NOT exaggerating either; stuff like that happened to me 2-3 times.

[Armstead]

20. Ah yes, that Divine Cone of Invisible Protection

[librechik]

17. Yeah, instead we warm up the noisy war machine, rattle swords for a year

stomp uselessly all over the middle east and break a bunch of stuff. Gotta use all that expensive war materiel! And kill a buncha folks! now what is it we were doing? Oh, yeah building a Ayn Randian business utopia out of a country that's been socialistic for generations. Who cares if no one has a job
now. BP will make billions!

Wait, where is that guy now? In hiding? Who ever could have predicted that!

[Armstead]

18. remember the Pottery Barn Rule?

We broke it and so we bought it....But the price is turning out to be more than we can pay.

[patrice]

21. As much as I am against war, I'm more against pretending that we didn't DO that shit.

I wish I could think otherwise, but I can't.

[patrice]

23. Well dammit, what do you expect, you can't have/feel that "Divine Cone of Invisible Protection" unle

ss you're killing something.

:sarcasm:

[Blue_In_AK]

22. I agree.

It should always have been a police action, not a war. John Kerry was right.

[blm]

24. again

.

[Blue_In_AK]

29. Almost always.

We missed a wonderful opportunity when Bush stole Ohio.

[blm]

31. Oh, the humanity. Oh, the progress.

.

[blondeatlast]

25. Indeed. Much fewer lives lost and a much better use of my tax dollars.

Please, DU, I am NOT equating the value of the two!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

26. But..but..chasing mosquitoes with sledgehammers is so much more...manly.

[Armstead]

27. LOL -- Sums it up perfectly

[Blue Owl]

28. But then Bu$hCo couldn't give his MIC buddies billions in no bid contracts

Isn't that what it's all about?

[blm]

30. I absolutely agree that war profiteering IS as huge a part of this as oil grabbing.

.

[Armstead]

33. Well, there's an element of truth in that...

I'd prefer to think otherwise but....

[blm]

35. c'mon Armstead...there's a whole LOT of truth to that...war's big bizness and war profiteers know it

.

[louslobbs]

37. One Big Giant K&R

Lou