I kinda hate to ask, but what did they do, just toss his ass out of a helicopter?

[ThomWV]

I'm not getting this burial at sea thing. How far did they have to transport the body to do that? Why? And how did they do it, was there a ship waiting? Did they just toss his dead ass out of a helicopter and let the fish take care of the rest? Kind of a crude question to be sure, but the disposal just sounds odd to me. Surely Arabs do not have a tradition of being buried at sea.

[WilliamPitt]

1. Well

It was a SEAL operation, and that means the Navy, and that means mission staging from a ship at sea. They went in via helicopter, did it, brought him back to the ship (my guess is somewhere in the Indian Ocean).

Then, yeah, over the side.

[geardaddy]

2. Good questions

[Dennis Donovan]

3. I'm sure they wrapped him in clean linen (per Islamic burial custom) and then wrapped it in chains

Whether from helicopter or ship's fantail, I don't know.

[tekisui]

4. My understanding is a burial at sea is appropriate if a Muslim is killed at sea.

On land, they are supposed to get a land burial. I think they tossed him on a technicality. I am not sure how it will be received to those who adhere to sharia law.

[JDPriestly]

25. Someone posted something here last night that indicated that

it was OK for Muslims to bury the dead at sea if there was a danger of marauders tampering with the grave. Something like that.

But I sure hope they got better, more acceptable proof than DNA testing before they buried him.

Also, it is possible that he died at sea. If they put him in a helicopter and he was not yet dead, he could have died of his wounds in the helicopter. The story is incomplete.

[tekisui]

29. Yeah, I just posted the rules I found:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1011947

[dgibby]

40. According to MSNBC this am,

prelim. DNA, facial recognition photo, and one of his wives id'd him. As for the burial in accordance with Islamic tradition, burial should take place within 24 hours of death. I don't think it has anything to do with being buried at sea-that was to prevent having a place to memorialize him.

[JDPriestly]

51. Thanks for the explanation.

Seems so odd, but after I thought about it, I realized no country would want to have that grave in it. It would just be too dangerous.

[Hannah Bell]

53. only if they can't get to land before the body rots.

[sufrommich]

5. I hope he was just dumped from the helicopter on the

way back to the ship.

[svsuman23]

16. haha

;)

[CBGLuthier]

6. Ever hear of Sinbad?

What, you think they kept all them sailors in the hold till they got home?

[HereSince1628]

10. Ok, you beat me in...

[Bucky]

14. No!

Tell me it isn't true! He's the greatest!!

[MilesColtrane]

27. He may not be funny, but that shirt sure is.

[TwilightGardener]

Srsly, I love Sinbad--guy still can crack me up.

[Bucky]

7. They reported they did it in accordance with Islamic law. But without leaving a shrine.

I'd be very surprised if they did it from the helicopter. More likely, they choppered his remains out to a war ship in the Indian Ocean and from there performed the ritual ablutions & whatever else goes into a shariya burial at sea.

[Auggie]

12. However they did it it was wise to do it quickly and at sea

[HereSince1628]

8. You never heard of Sinbad?

I think that they had a tradition of ocean trading, which would probably require creating a ritual for burial at sea simply as a matter of shipboard hygiene.

[Poll_Blind]

9. And the WH just said the DNA test came back positive. Where was it tested?

I mean, don't you have to have DNA physically present to perform a DNA test? Was it performed on ship?

Why recognize Islamic burial practices for the one man who arguably tried to hijack and destroy Islam? What Muslims were going to be pissed at us for not giving him a proper Islamic burial? Wouldn't those be Muslims who supported bin Laden anyway?

PB

[Barack_America]

17. They've been planning this for a very long time.

Easy enough to set up a small lab on ship. They already had his DNA, which I'm sure they'd studied as to what unique markers to look for.

[Poll_Blind]

19. I heard that OBL's sister had died in New York some time ago and that her DNA was...

...used to set up a DNA database so the US could have set up a DNA lab on the ship. In fact, if it was a medical ship or if there was a medical ship nearby, it may have a DNA testing lab as part of its default kit. I'm just wondering if that was the case.

PB

[Barack_America]

34. It would only take a space about the size of a bathroom.

They probably set up a lab on the ship the SEALS were based off of.

I'm a molecular biologist and familiar with the equipment that would be required to do this. This is also what my husband does for a living.

[kestrel91316]

20. Mistreatment of his remains would have been insulting to even moderate Muslims, I suspect.

Wise to do as they did.

[MilesColtrane]

26. "Was it performed on ship?"

Likely.

I would think that most military ships have the capability to test DNA to identify casualties. Once they've done the test it's just a matter of sending the results to Washington for comparison.

"Why recognize Islamic burial practices for the one man who arguably tried to hijack and destroy Islam?"

Adding fuel to the fire for cheap political gain at home is the purview of Bush, not Obama.

[golddigger]

28. A lot shit happened to fast for me on this. Something is not right.

Just my gut feeling.

[Poll_Blind]

32. Eh, I definitely see where you're coming from but I'm neutral so far.

But some things like "it was a kill-only" mission make me go "Really?"

I mean if you're going to waterboard somebody, why not fucking OBL?

Again, there are reports coming out that it was a kill mission from the start. If OBL fought back, obviously special forces can use deadly force in response. But if he was cowering in a corner somewhere, killing him is fine with me but wouldn't it be better to get him shackled and brought back where he can be interrogated and Al Qaeda could hopefully be attacked more fully?

I dunno.

PB

[TwilightGardener]

37. I am baffled by anyone who thinks we could have gotten some valuable intel

or national security benefit by capturing him (or waterboarding--really?).

[Poll_Blind]

45. So the one person who would know "everything" holds the least intel?

Really? I don't get your line of reasoning on that, I think I'm misunderstanding you somewhere.

PB

[TwilightGardener]

46. Why would a guy who spent the last 15-20 years plotting against our country, declaring war

against our country, and forming an organization devoted to the destruction of our country, suddenly start squealing with valuable info to the US as a captive? It boggles the mind.

[Poll_Blind]

49. Because he, at heart, is a coward and criminal?

:shrug:

PB

[TwilightGardener]

50. Religious nut who felt it was his mission to destroy us and our culture.

And had the money and means to make a pretty good run at it. He wasn't some punk ass AQ "trainee".

[benddem]

31. they've had his DNA on file

for some time. I don't know how they got it. They could have his sons which would give a positive match.

[Poll_Blind]

33. I heard it was his deceased sister who died in New York some time ago, NOT OBL's.

If you can find a link stating otherwise, I'd love to read that information.

PB

[Barack_America]

36. If OBL and this sister had the same mother, they would have shared mitochondrial DNA.

They could have used this to identify him.

[Barack_America]

11. I'm a cynic.

I don't think he's been buried anywhere.

[valerief]

13. Maybe he died years ago and the US is now letting go of the OBL mission.

Who knows? OBL is now officially dead. What does that mean to us?

[Solomon]

30. It means the powers that be have decided that Obama gets a

second term. That's what it means.

[valerief]

42. That's how I read it, too. But what does it mean to unemployed Americans?

More tax revenue going to more war or less?

[Hannah Bell]

54. +100.

[OHdem10]

15. Could it be that to avoid over-reaction by remaining AlQeda in

any one country he be buried where there would not
be an accumulation of Terrorists who naturally seek
revenge. They would do anything to make him a martyr.

[Poll_Blind]

22. The argument "We didn't want to upset AQ." is plausible but not likely.

Just sayin'.

Although, Wikileaks did break that Gitmo interrogations had "revealed" that AQ had smuggled a nuclear device into Europe and was planning on detonating it if OBL was killed or captured.

From the LA Times: WikiLeaks releasing documents on Guantanamo (search for "nuclear hellstorm")

PB

[Hubert Flottz]

18. I'm guessing they flushed him.

[JDPriestly]

21. If they had time to bury him at sea, then there should be items of clothing

or pictures or other additional proof that he is dead and died in this raid.

Surely they have thought about all the questions that will be raised. The diehards who actually liked this creep will not be persuaded by a report on DNA evidence. All sorts of alternative theories and stories and myths will arise if they don't have better proof than we have seen.

[JDPriestly]

23. If they had time to bury him at sea, then there should be items of clothing

or pictures or other additional proof that he is dead and died in this raid.

Surely they have thought about all the questions that will be raised. The diehards who actually liked this creep will not be persuaded by a report on DNA evidence. All sorts of alternative theories and stories and myths will arise if they don't have better proof than we have seen.

[Poll_Blind]

24. If not helmetcam video of the whole operation. That would not be unusual.

PB

[Chris_Texas]

35. Works for me

[Marr]

38. Well, it does seem like a practical solution.

If he were buried in an accessible location with an actual marker, he'd be either a pilgrimage site for supporters, or a pissing spot for detractors. This goes some way to reducing his martyr status.

[pintobean]

39. Toss his ass out of a helicopter? He wasn't taken alive.

[EFerrari]

41. There are these things called the Geneva Conventions

that spell out how enemy war dead are to be handled. We're not supposed to make it up as we go along or, we weren't supposed to, anyway.

I tried to look it up this morning because I don't know from this topic.

It's the First Convention, Chapter 2, Article 17.

But, again, I don't know if there is something more recent that supersedes that.

That particular Article makes a big deal about being able to locate the dead after the end of hostilities.

http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/FULL/365?OpenDocument

[valerief]

43. I don't think we're supposed to torture either, but there's no punishment for that. nt

[EFerrari]

47. That's right. For some reason, it comforts me to at least know

what the law says. That's probably irrational.

lol

:)

[librechik]

44. According to the AP the body was washed and wrapped in accordance with Muslim tradition

a funeral service was read then translated into Arabic by a translator, and as usual with burials at sea, the body was strapped to a board, the straps were released, the board was tipped up and the body, in a weighted sack, slipped into the sea.

[JVS]

48. That reminds me. Scarface is on tonight.

[Suich]

52. Carl Vinson was the ship and it was in the Arabian Sea. n/t