60 Minutes just had laura logan on w/ an interview of her ordeal in Egypt.

[glowing]

and more people are posting about stupid trump... wish more had watched a real piece instead of a shit piece.

[seabeyond]

1. all for her talking about it if she feels like it. i have read a bet. but rape does not entertain

me

dont wanna watch

[Faygo Kid]

4. That's unfair. It was powerful and important, and definitely worth watching.

I wasn't going to watch, either. I'm glad I did.

[seabeyond]

7. not taking away from powerful or important. and i am sure for some, worth the watch. for others

not so much

[glowing]

5. Its not meant for entertainment.. and believe me; there was nothing about

her interview that was "entertainment".. I think more people should be aware of what rape is and looks like and what it does.. then maybe "boys being boys" b.s. will end one day.. sooner the better.

[Faygo Kid]

8. +1

[seabeyond]

10. maybe glowing, but i see too much where the story becomes the titilation for some

it is empowering for her.

that is what counts.

just sayin.... some people dont have to watch to understand. you called people out for not watching/discussing

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

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[Sherman A1]

33. Agreed

I don't think you need to watch a particular program to "get it." I also don't believe it is necessary for you to be called out for your opinion or stating it. You are entitled to your opinion, just as everyone else here is and we should respect that others may have views that vary from ours. There seems to be a lack of civility of late......

[seabeyond]

34. thank you. i appreciate that. thought i was pretty respectful in not wanting to watch the show. nt

[jbnow]

41. But you sounded disrespectful of those who did choose to watch

whether you intended to or not.
You say "but rape does not entertain me" which rather implies others will watch it for entertainment.
Or for titillation
or whatever
She gave some reasons she was speaking out
It is fine if you didn't want to watch
It isn't better or worse than those who did chose to watch
I watched and was neither entertained nor titillated

[seabeyond]

42. thinking about it. when it first happened to lara, male posters insisted, DEMANDED she tell each

and everything that happened to her so THEY could decide if she was raped. it was a handful of men on du, but went to sick.

probably influenced how i posted initially. but i do see people being entertained by rape stories. call me out for it or not. i see it.

[glowing]

48. Then more people should watch and/ or discuss in general.. Rape is not for titilation.

Its not for sensation. Its not for Laura's empowerment, rather a voice of empowerment for women.. especially women in a predominantly "male" field... the empowerment to give other's the voice and the strength to bring these issues to light.

[Liquorice]

14. +2 nt

[MichiganVote]

2. Harrowing account. Bet she'll think twice b/f she visits that country again.

[hlthe2b]

13. Like we don't have rapists and gang rapists HERE?

That is disgusting to judge an entire country by one very sick episode that can occur anywhere. I know of what I speak, having worked, lived in Egypt on a number of occasions. And, as a western female, I never had a problem. I was treated well, was not any more fearful of walking around Cairo by myself than I would be in any large city--simply taking the same common sense precautions. That said, yes, of course assault can occur there as well as in my or your home town. She was there during a time of strife when Mubarak back forces were committing all kinds of offenses in their desperation to hold power. In times of unrest, there is always a greater chance that the worst of society will step forward.

I have little doubt that Laura Logan will put her horrific experience in context and NOT jump to the kind of unfortunate stereotypical conclusion that you have just put forth.

[seabeyond]

16. i totally agree and totally disagree with you. yes, cant point the finger away cause 3 fingers point

back. BUT

i am so pissed at that culture. the women instigated, organized and was a part of the demonstrations to acquire freedom. from a culture where the men refuse to recognize their rights. when the women went out later to demonstrate for THEIR freedom, that men, the ordinary men jeered and insulted. women were arrest and given "virgin" checks. if not a virgin prosecuted for prostitution.

what about their rights they fought for with the men

like 90% of the women in that country are sexually harassed. it is part of their culture. and that

i wont condone or ignore or pretend it isn't there

[hlthe2b]

17. Those cretins were not representative of all Egyptian men...

I have lived and experienced the culture. Have you?

The cretins who committed atrocities on behalf of Mubarak were desperate and criminal in their actions. Why do you lump them with the Muslim AND Coptic Christian Egyptian men who stood side by side protesting with the women? That's about like me lumping the men in your family with those of the abusive polygamist Morman sects. Beyond both being American males, what exactly makes them the same?

[seabeyond]

18. google. there is plenty of info. i grabbed the first served up.

Cairo, Egypt (CNN) – Young, old, foreign, Egyptian, poor, middleclass, or wealthy, it doesn't matter. Dressed in hijab, niqab, or western wear, it doesn't matter.

If you are a woman living in Cairo, chances are you have been sexually harassed. It happens on the streets, on crowded buses, in the workplace, in schools, and even in a doctor's office.

According to a 2008 survey of 1,010 women conducted by the Egyptian Center for Women's rights, 98 percent of foreign women and 83 percent of Egyptian women have been sexually harassed.

I know, it has happened to me. Last week, I was walking home from dinner when a carload of young men raced by me and screamed out "Sharmouta" (whore in Arabic.)

http://insidethemiddleeast.blogs.cnn.com/2010/11/01/why-is-sexual-harassment-in-egypt-so-rampant/

[hlthe2b]

25. Try googling sexual assautl among women in the US military

Good Gawd, seabeyond... I know you are better than this. :shrug:

[seabeyond]

27. i am being honest.... straight. that is the thing with truth and fact. is it bad in military....

damn straight. not like walking on our streets. but i dont cut anyone slack for sexual harassment whether a handful or more men raping an 11 yr old, to different circumstances, two different states or a nation that has a proclivity toward sexual assault. there are countries that have their own taxi lines for females or trains for females because those environments are rampant with sexual harassment and assault.

now, tunisiea had their revolution and demanded to include women in the cabinets and a part of the efforts.

not happening in egypt. it is theirs to do and we get to call them on it. during the protest when women went out their to demand their freedom along with the mens they were jeered, stripped down and photographed, harassed adn check to see if they were virgins.

am i suppose to pretend i didnt hear that?

[hlthe2b]

31. I don't know how to argue with rapant bigotry...

I have come to really like you, seabeyond, but your stereotyping an entire population of people that you do not know and have never experienced based on the evil committed by a few and relying on google searches to defend your biases, just leaves me sad. I'll leave it there. Maybe with time you will see a more comprehensive depiction of the Eygptian people and know that they are quite different from that of Saudis, or Kuwaitis, or other Arabs and that even within the country they are an extremely diverse and generally a progressive people. Yes, they will have their share of problems going forward, but of all the predominantly Muslim countries in transition, I have more faith in Egypt and Egyptians arriving at a more democratic endpoint. And, yes, I have experienced pre-revolutionary Iran, S. Arabia, Jordan, and Egypt first hand-- both the good and the bad.

[seabeyond]

36. i am rooting for them hlthe2b. there is always the opportunity.

i saw the young gal that started the tweetering of it on stewart.... really like her. no intimidating her.

maybe they will adopt what tunisia did.

[hlthe2b]

37. Good to hear...

We can certainly agree on that. ;)

[glowing]

49. Unfortunately, that statistic could be in any country for any woman.

I doubt there are too many women on this message board or in any town in America that hasn't had some "sexualized" harassment... I have had cat calls walking down the street. I've been grabbed inappropriately at a club. I have been "bumped" into on purpose. I've beeen looked up and down. I would say most women have had similar experiences right here in America.

[WhiteTara]

43. Don't look now, seabeyond,

but Allen West just said smart women are the fault of the bad economy...they/we emasculated the men, so they couldn't make good money decisions...because Sally Kern said that we were too lazy to receive the same amount of money as men...and every 3 seconds another child is abused physically or sexually in this country... Super Bowl Sunday has the highest domestic violence incidence rate in the US...and just today, someone in the puke party called for the imprisonment of any woman who has an abortion. Just saying, you are in the belly of the beast.

[seabeyond]

46. Just saying, you are in the belly of the beast..... lmao

though, i do understand the super bowl thing is a myth..... yup, to what you say. allen west makes my head spin with his logic.

ya, i know.

BUT....

we regressed. we took a whole lotta steps forward. would say just took a step back, but further we go, seem like lotsa steps back

[WhiteTara]

51. Hey! Thanks for the SuperBowl Myth Debunk!

I just began working in CASA when that report about the study came out and never heard any follow up. I appreciate truth! ::fistbump:

[MichiganVote]

30. Hey let's try a little reality. I didn't offer one judgemental comment about Egyptians

My comment was about one woman attacked as she did her job. If it happens to her here, she prolly won't feel too much like living stateside either.

Nice to accuse me of having an agenda when YOU in fact, do yourself.

[hlthe2b]

32. Excuse me.. Your words...

Go re-read them. Why would you assume a woman who had experienced such a horrific event would blame an entire country, an entire people--even her own country-- never wishing to return? Have you known of American women who were raped that immediately expatriated? That makes no sense. Yet, to apply it to a foreign country assumes that all people within that country are equally culpable and equally likely to repeat the offense. :shrug:

[MichiganVote]

38. And you are reading far too much into them. Suit yourself. Onto the ignore list you go.

[hlthe2b]

39. Feel free.

I have no desire to interact with you if you hold such attitudes towards an entire people you know nothing about. I have to say that given you hail from Michigan, with their large population of Arabs, I would have thought you might have interacted with Middle Eastern immigrants a bit more and perhaps come to develop some appreciation for the spectrum of cultures (and attitudes). :shrug:

[virgogal]

3. I watched the Logan interview and as a woman I'm glad I'm not

an Egyptian. Those men were animals.

[hlthe2b]

15. Those men were NOT representative of Egyptian men...

See my post above. This broadstroke stereotyping is exceedingly unfortunate to see here.

[glowing]

35. Mob mentality and the "entitlement" to do so.. It is very normal for women to be harrassed ..

expected by men.. sexual assault of a professional woman is part of that frenzy make-up... But it happens in the US of ole' A too.. I'm thinking of one incident recently that involved a young woman on a bus who was attacked and raped by football stars all the while No one noticed or said anything to the bus driver... Boys being boys... Using sex as a means of power control.

Sexual harassment still occurs even in our "modernized" culture. Cases presented against rapists often focus on what a woman was wearing or doing to "invite" attack... rather than rape is wrong no matter what... Look at our prisons.. Its a "laughable" threat to prisoners going into the prison system about rape. Even our soldiers are set up to use sex as a torture tool and a means of power supression.... Women soldiers die in Iraq from dehydration because they don't want to risk sexual assault if they have to use the bathroom in the middle of the night.. so they don't drink enough water in a desert.. Most assaults and rapes in the military on our women soldiers are not reported.. sometimes they happen from those in a senior command post.

On a side note: I worked with a couple of Egyptians in America (they were brothers at the same company which should be a big no-no anyway).. I was in the Senior position. I was harrassed, sexually harrassed, physically threatened in my own office with one of the brother's sitting in my office chair (I nearly called the police, but he left when I picked up the phone), they caused a stab-behind the back campaign with other employees that I was lead for... In the end, the owner and I came to a mutual departure.... I told him that if he continued to employ the person he was, he would eventually be on the end of a huge lawsuit. I honestly thought he was a world class jerk, however, after listening to many of the employees speak about issues they had with the "brother's".. even the owner of the company acknowledged that he didn't like how he behaved (he was good a schmoozing sales, but would be bad as a general manager)... He said it was an Egyptian thing and that the men feel as they should be at the top; women have "nothing"/ "submissive".. (he apparently treated his wife very poorly). Anyway, I settled out of the situation because the entire operation sucked and wasn't worth my energy as a job package.. not just because of this asshole.... I can only hope karma hit him well.. He was in debt up to his freaking ears and trying to turn homes on the mortgage scheme as a side job... This was right around the crash time.... I'm sure he lost in the end. But I'm not going to put my experience and a generalization on all Egyptian men.. Not all are the same person...

Its past time for women around the world to hold one another up and demand equality and humanity for ourselves alongside men. It is women and children who normally fair horribly during times of war... In some cultures, women are not wanted... female babies killed at birth... women sold into sex slavery and workshop slavery... AND even in this country we still see women being attacked from reproductive rights to wages to images that we are supposed to "be" dictated by corporate standards who want to sell products.... Make-up, hair care, nail care, diet schemes, the "right way to catch a man", how to dress to climb the corporate ladder.... Its time we stop being catty in our own insecurities and join hands with one another, accept one another, and bring light to the inequalities of women around the globe (and I don't mean the Sarah Palin/ Michelle Bachman types of people who take the advancements of women's struggles throughout history and try to destroy from within).

[hlthe2b]

40. I'm glad, despite your experience that you maintain your perspective...

I could almost parallel your account, simply substituting Egyptian brothers for American men belonging to Promise Keepers, whose disdain for women is legendary. Ditto members of several fundamentalist churches--Morman, Protestant Christian, some Catholic offshoots, and synagogues. Abusive men who denigrate and even overtly sexually harass or abuse women come from many backgrounds.

Yes, I absolutely agree that women need to stand up for each other. So, too men from all cultures and backgrounds that have denounced such attitudes and beliefs. And, I do believe these latter, enlightened men exist in all cultures. One can only hope they are increasing in numbers within those countries where regressive attitudes prevail.

[Fuzz]

6. hard to watch

[MrModerate]

9. Here's how things are different: If she'd been male, all they would have done is beat her up.

Discuss.

[Liquorice]

12. They didn't beat up her camera man or any other man with her. nt

[MrModerate]

26. Apparently they cut them out of the pack and shoved them around . . .

Not comparable, of course -- but then they were focusing on the journalist.

[Liquorice]

29. She was attacked because she is a woman. Those men were not attacked. They

were just shoved out of the way to get to her.

[MrModerate]

52. Not disagreeing. They targeted her.

[alcibiades_mystery]

11. Her name is Lara

Just sayin'...

[glowing]

50. Sorry, I can't edit it now.. Its just that it was really powerful and at the same time

all I saw were posts about Trump on CNN.. He's a joke and irrelevant as far as I'm concerned... I guess a discussion on rape, women in predominant "male" job rolls, etc, etc would be at least one thread. I guess I started one.

To me Trump represents the regressed asshole "man" image.. Someone who thinks he owns everyone and someone who def. thinks women and anyone who isn't a rich, white man is relevant.. contrast that with lara.. and the story that had me to tears. anyway.. sorry to botch the spelling of her name... I can't fix the post now.

[WinkyDink]

20. The President spoke about Trump, though. But I praise LL for her fortitude.

In both her ordeal and in her telling.

[seabeyond]

24. he did mention her without using her name when honoring the media at the end. nt

[Raine]

21. Some of us haven't seen it yet, it's only 4:30 on the west coast

so don't get all self-righteous on us! x(

[Gormy Cuss]

22. Minor point, but many of us are in time zones where it hasn't aired yet. n/t

[devilgrrl]

28. 60 minutes blows... regardless of the occational "decent" segment

eom

[whogasa736]

44. Notice how Quick all the Anchors from the Networks

got the hell out of that country. Since none of them were Muslim ,they are lucky to get out alive. When I saw them reporting from the shadows in their rooms, I knew big trouble was very close.

[BOHICA12]

45. Can't call her lucky .... but she is fortunate.

A mob that large could have literally torn her into pieces. She's not very big and mob animals are capable of horrendous violence.

May she hung her kids and family and hire a bigger security team. I want to see her out there again. She's good at her job.

[Bigmack]

47. When she said it went on for over 25 minutes...

I couldn't believe she survived.

I knew she was tough... she traveled in some of the really bad spots... but she's a goddam hero!