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Obama vs. Bush: Who’s the Bigger Tax Cutter?

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 01:47 PM
Original message
Obama vs. Bush: Who’s the Bigger Tax Cutter?

Obama vs. Bush: Who’s the Bigger Tax Cutter?

Different Cuts Reflect Different Philosophies

By Michael Linden, Michael Ettlinger

If you had to guess whether President George W. Bush or President Barack Obama cut taxes more in his first term, which one would you choose? Probably President Bush, right? After all, the “the Bush tax cuts” were massive. And President Obama is the one calling for the expiration of some of those tax cuts. He’s also pushing for more revenue as we try to address our long-term fiscal imbalance.

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President Obama’s tax cuts versus President Bush’s tax cuts

President Bush enacted his tax cuts in 2001 and 2003, and over their 10-year lifespan, they reduced tax revenues by around $2.4 trillion, with $474 billion of that coming in the first four years. The first-term impact of those tax cuts is equivalent to about $574 billion in today’s dollars, or about 1.1 percent of gross domestic product.

President Obama has also signed two major pieces of tax-cutting legislation into law. The first, the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, included a variety of tax cuts that benefited nearly every single American household. ARRA contained the Making Work Pay tax credit that directly reduced a family’s income tax bill by up to $800, which, overall, reduced tax revenue by about $116 billion. It included expansions of the child, earned income, American Opportunity, and first-time homebuyer tax credits. ARRA patched up the alternative minimum tax, providing $70 billion in tax cuts, and cut a wide array of business taxes, together totaling another $60 billion.

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First, President Obama’s tax cuts are much more targeted at the middle class. The Bush tax cuts were heavily skewed toward the wealthy with more than half of the entire benefit going only to the richest 20 percent. President Obama’s tax cuts, on the other hand, are distributed more evenly. Eighty-five percent of the benefits of the Making Work Pay tax credit, for example, went to the bottom 80 percent of households, and because the very wealthy don’t pay payroll taxes on all of their income, the payroll tax cut, too, benefits the middle class much more than the Bush tax cuts did.

more


New CBO Report Finds Up to 2.9 Million People Owe Their Jobs to the Recovery Act

Poverty and income trends continue to paint a bleak picture for working families

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A quick comment on the effect of ARRA

How did the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (ARRA) affect the 2010 poverty and income numbers? Because ARRA was passed in February and was in the process of ramping up through the end of 2009, its full impact was felt in 2010. ARRA primarily affected these numbers by creating and saving jobs, the earnings from which otherwise would not have been there supporting family incomes. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that the Recovery Act created or saved around one million full-time equivalent jobs in 2009, and 3.4 million jobs in 2010. Without these jobs, the decline in income and increase in poverty would have been much more dramatic. In other words, the new Census Bureau report is ugly, but without ARRA, it would have been much uglier. This underscores the growing impact of the end of ARRA—in the current quarter, ARRA is supporting only 2.3 million full-time equivalent jobs, and the number of jobs supported drops to half a million by the fourth quarter of 2012. This means that the loss of the boost from government action is—and without additional intervention will continue to be—a substantial drag on jobs and family income.

What about the direct income supports in ARRA? Of three major income supports in the stimulus—unemployment insurance, nutritional assistance (food stamps), and tax cuts—only unemployment insurance is counted in the income numbers just released; the income numbers include cash income received from programs such as unemployment insurance, but exclude noncash benefits like food stamps, and are measured before payments of taxes, so they do not reflect reductions in taxes. While unemployment insurance benefits replace a maximum of half of a worker’s prior earnings, these benefits went to workers who were laid off and who had low odds of quickly finding another job (in 2010, there were 5.3 unemployed workers per job opening on average). In other words, these unemployment benefits went to families that otherwise would likely have suffered even steeper income declines, and in some cases dropped below the poverty line. Census data show that 3.2 million people were kept out of poverty in 2010 by unemployment insurance benefits alone.

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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. WOW! Just think of all the JOBS this created!
Heh, not.

I'm not disagreeing with the tax cuts, but it's more evidence tax cuts DO NOT create jobs.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
2. This is one of the main problems with Obama. FUCK TAX CUTS!
Tax cuts have destroyed our economy over the past 40 years. We are well on track for living through a totally unprecedented 20 FUCKING YEARS!! with not a single net job added (given the growth in the number of job seekers). 2000 to 2010 should have been a clue that tax cutting destroys jobs. Why does Obama persist with this goddamed STUPID fucking Repuke messaging? When is he going to stand up for public goods and the taxes necessary to finance them?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Hmmmm?
"Tax cuts have destroyed our economy over the past 40 years."

Do you know the difference between supply-side and demand-side tax cuts?

The fact that the stimulus included tax cuts, food stamp benefits and unemployment benefits stemmed from the fact that people were losing their jobs and their homes at a rapid pace. Something had to be done to not only create jobs, but to protect as many Americans as possible from slipping into poverty. Without the ARRA aid, the 2010 Census data on poverty would have been a lot uglier.

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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. The tax cuts detracted in a major way from the food stamp and unemployment benefits
That is why, although the stimulus kept things from getting worse, there were STILL no net jobs added.

I know perfectly well that Obama can't possibly get something massive and Keynsian passed, but he should at least propose it so he can campaign against Republicans on it.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Wait
Edited on Thu Sep-15-11 05:58 PM by ProSense
"there were STILL no net jobs added."

...you were expecting net job creation after losing more than 8 million jobs? That would have required creating more than 11 million jobs in two years.

The fact is that the stimulus provided much needed aid to American in the face of a free-falling job market.





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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. These graphs display the ongoing disaster of the "new normal"
If the stimulus had had no tax cuts whatsoever, we would be closer to recovering the 8 million jobs that the Bush TAX CUTS cost us. So why are you cheering for Obama as a TAX CUTTER?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. You
"If the stimulus had had no tax cuts whatsoever, we would be closer to recovering the 8 million jobs that the Bush TAX CUTS cost us. So why are you cheering for Obama as a TAX CUTTER?"

...misunderstood. I cheering aid to Americans when they needed it most. Closer? Somehow I doubt being a little less in the hole would be appreciated by those who reject the progress made.





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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. So, your OP was about all the taxes Obama cut, not the aid dispensed
Denial--not just a river in Egypt.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Hmmmm?


Speaking of "denial," even the chart include the Recovery Act. The article also explains in detail the difference between the two approaches.

Try reading beyond the headline.

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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
3. So now we're going to run on tax cuts? Hmmmmm.
Edited on Thu Sep-15-11 04:54 PM by Jakes Progress
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Tennessee Gal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
4. This proves he isn't a tax and spend liberal!
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Whether this is sarcasm or not, the fact remains that
--taxing and spending is the government's goddam fucking JOB! Those who think that that is a bad thing are engaged in an all out war on the notion of public goods. Why in bloody hell is a "Democratic" president working with the enemy here?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. You know
"--taxing and spending is the government's goddam fucking JOB! Those who think that that is a bad thing are engaged in an all out war on the notion of public goods. Why in bloody hell is a "Democratic" president working with the enemy here?"

...what else is the government's job: providing aid.

As for the last point: Not a single Republican in House voted for the stimulus. You know why? Its benefits went mostly to low- and middle-income Americans.



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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Indeed, providing aid is one of many public goods funded by taxes
So why are you so hot on Obama being a tax-cutter, per your OP?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Maybe
"So why are you so hot on Obama being a tax-cutter, per your OP?"

...just reread this point. It apparently didn't sink in.




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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Your OP was all about the glories of Obama as a tax cutter
The aid was decimated compared to what it could have been without the tax cuts.
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vroomvroom Donating Member (496 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
6. And half of DU will still defend Obama despite all facts saying he is a Center-Right President.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Actually,
"And half of DU will still defend Obama despite all facts saying he is a Center-Right President."

...that's likely the half that knows the difference between progressive aid (Make Work Pay, EITC, food stamps and unemployment benefits) and tax cuts for the rich.

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Mr Deltoid Donating Member (694 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
16. Tax cutting as cure all = Reaganomics
Tax cuts for the rich as cure all = Supply Side
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Hmmmm?
"Tax cutting as cure all = Reaganomics

Tax cuts for the rich as cure all = Supply Side"

I don't think tax cuts for low- and middle-income Americans is trickle-down economics.

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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. When the government needs a massive hiring binge, it is
I'm perfectly willing to donate my $150 "middle class tax cut" to providing aid to the jobless.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. So
"When the government needs a massive hiring binge, it is I'm perfectly willing to donate my $150 "middle class tax cut" to providing aid to the jobless."

...your proposal for the millions who would still be unemployed, losing their homes or struggling to stay above the poverty level would be to get a job?





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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. My proposal would be for Obama to direct all stimulus funds for direct hiring
--by government. If he can't get it, campaign against the Republicans for blocking action.
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Mr Deltoid Donating Member (694 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Yes, hmmmmmmm
Tax cuts as cure-all is Reganomics, not trickle down. Supply side is trickle down.
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Axrendale Donating Member (159 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
24. This is an excellent thread, but it is a great pity that the central point of it is going
to simply fly over the heads of most of the so-called 'liberals' utterly unable to comprehend that in the realm of government fiscal policy, all tax cuts are not created equal (in any case, from a technical standpoint it would be far more accurate to refer to Obama's policies in this instance as "tax relief" than tax cutting - which implies the permanent reduction of taxes as opposed to temporarily relieving them).

If people knew their history a little better, then they would realise that by utilizing tax breaks targeted at the Middle and Working classes to spur demand in the economy and thus create/save jobs and growth (what's known as 'reactionary keynesianism') Obama is in fact acting in a long Democratic tradition that stretches back to the heyday of liberalism. It was John F. Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson who first sought to use Middle Class tax relief to spur economic activity in the 1960s - and their policies were responsible for the single biggest peacetime economic expansion in the second half of the 20th Century.

Tax relief may not be as efficient in producing large multipliers as direct government investment in key sections of the economy, but it tends to be more politically palatable, and as long as it represents additional dollars being available for the sections of American society that liberal policies are meant to support, is a perfectly acceptable policy position as far as I am concerned.

This notion is not one that only Blue Dogs and centrists support - there is a reason that outspoken liberals like Robert Reich and Paul Krugman endorse it as well.

Prosense, your articles are always informative and I greatly enjoy reading them - please keep up the good work! :)

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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Except that the tax cuts did almost nothing to spur demand
Most went directly to banks to pay down debt. And when the FUCK are we going to start creating another political reality by defending public goods instead of constantly agreeing with Repukes that paying for public goods is a "burden." Why is paying for a road or a school a "burden," but not paying for an iPod? Are you proposing that we never, ever develop our own messages, but continue playing on the field that Repukes dictate for us with their messaging?

Kennedy and Johnson realized that the high WW II tax rates were no longer necessary after the war debt was paid down. If you are advocating for the 70% top rate in effect then, I agree with you.

The direct subsidies to states accounted for most of the saved jobs. Make Work Pay was unfortunately cancelled when Obama caved to the Repukes over the Bush tax cuts.
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