The real fact is that those who want to kill this bill don't really give a shit about the bill.

[ncteechur]

They just didn't get exactly what they wanted so they are taking their marbles and going home. The disregard the truth about reconciliation and senate rules. They disregard the fact that the country isn't as far left as they think it is. They disregard the legislative reality of compromise--that unfortunately you almost never get everything you want. They think 50 votes = 60 votes. They forget that the House version barely passed as well and it was much more liberal than the senate version. They don't care about what the bill actually does, they are only concerned with what the bill doesn't do.

They don't really care about the bill. They just don't want there to be a victory without them being able to say that they were the ones who caused it.

[ananda]

1. Nobody who really needs healthcare got anything from this bill.

Think about it.

[sandnsea]

3. How do you get your health care? n/t

[treestar]

10. Too absurd

:beer:

[IndianaGreen]

2. The point is that the corporate Dems prefer their stocks over the people

and like Bush used fear to get people to buy off his shit, they are using fear to get us to buy off this health insurance bailout.

Obama's health czar is a corporate whore!

Nancy-Ann DeParle, President Barack Obama’s health policy czar, served as a director of corporations that faced scores of federal investigations, whistleblower lawsuits and other regulatory actions, according to government records reviewed by the Investigative Reporting Workshop at American University.

Several of the companies were investigated for alleged kickbacks or engaging in other illegal billing schemes, while others were accused of serious violations of federal quality standards, including one company that failed to warn patients of deadly problems with an implanted heart defibrillator. Several of the cases ended with substantial fines paid to the federal government, even though the companies admitted no wrongdoing.

Since leaving her government job running Medicare for the Clinton administration, DeParle built a lucrative private-sector career. Records show she earned more than $6.6 million since early 2001, according to a tally by the Investigative Reporting Workshop.

Much of that corporate career was built at companies that have frequently had to defend themselves against federal investigations. After leaving government, DeParle accepted director positions at half a dozen companies suspected of violating the very laws and regulations she had enforced for Medicare. Those companies got into further trouble on her watch as a director.

Now she’s back in government as a leading voice in deciding the shape of health care reform. Named by Obama in March as director of the White House Office of Health Reform, making $158,000 a year, DeParle is the point person in pushing for the administration's plans for changing health care and the ways Americans pay for it — changes in which her former companies have a great deal at stake.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31566399/ns/health-health_care/

[Lerkfish]

4. um wrong

but go ahead and live in your delusional "real fact" world

[lamp_shade]

5. :hands over ears: "I can't hear you" "nanananananana" "I can't hear you"

Your thoughtful words fall on deaf ears here. I'm giving you a big rec for your courage.

[donco6]

6. Are you really pulling out the Pony Defense?

We didn't get our pony, so we're pulling a Cartman and going home?

What a pathetic fail.

[ncteechur]

13. Since you are acting like a child, it seems very appropriate.

[donco6]

16. How so?

[angee_is_mad]

7. Thanks ncteechur

but you can't deal with logic on here. It has been taken over by the pumas and the anti-Obama trolls.

But remember, it isn't personal.

[JVS]

8. The real fact is that those who want to pass this bill don't really give a shit about health care

They just got exactly what they wanted, which is to pass some kind of bill and claim a political victory. They disregard the truth about what a mandate will do when not balanced with protections for the consumers. They disregard the fact that the country is much more in favor of a public option than the Senate.. They disregard the practical reality of compromise--that if you have committed yourself to passing legislation, you've killed the strong negotiating technique known as "walking away" and are forced to accept your opponents terms . They forget that the process by which we got to this point was one of capitulation from the very beginning without consideration of whether the bill harms or helps the people. They don't care about what the bill actually does, they are only concerned with the bill passing.

They don't really care about the public. They just want there to be a "victory" with them being able to say that they were the ones who caused it.

[Yavin4]

9. The Real Fact Is That This Bill Destroys The Democratic Party

Because it violates the trust that middle and working class Americans have invested in the party.

Maybe, in the end, that will be a good thing because the Democratic leadership does not give a shit about the people.

[jeanpalmer]

11. Why not kill it?

It's not HCR. It's a scam. It's like paying $6,000 for a used car worth $3,000. There's no cost reduction from the exorbitant costs we have in this country, where we pay twice as much for healthcare as people in UK, France, Canada etc. Real HCR would bring those costs down. These politicians, through hype, repetition and a false debate over insignificant little tinkerings, have hoodwinked the public into believing this is HCR. It's not even close. It's not even a start. And of course they've turned it into a partisan and ideological fight (over nothing) where people in the base can develop their villains and and vent their hostilities against Lieberman, Nelson, Landrieu, etc., not facing up to the fact they're being flimflammed. It's a sad spectacle.

We need to kill this stupid bill.

[treestar]

22. Oh the hyperbole

And the lack of understanding of the bill.

[Dinger]

12. Unrec (nt)

[mcablue]

14. Dean gave a shit until Medicare buy-in was stripped off

It's simple. Too many concession to the big health industry.

[Aramchek]

15. spot on

[Bullet1987]

17. You make a number of errors in your OP

1. We're not mad because we didn't get what we wanted (per se). If it was only about us...we would have been acting like this when Single-Payer was taken off the table because that's what we REALLY want. We're mad because this bill is an insurance industry giveaway and does nothing to control costs or create competition...the whole POINT OF HCR!!!

2. This has nothing to do with the Far-Left. This is a populist revolt against the bill you're seeing. A populist revolt where only 37% of people even want this shit. So claiming this is only the "far left" who are against it is to ignore every poll showing how little support the bill actually has amoung the American people.

3. "They don't care about what the bill actually does, they are only concerned with what the bill doesn't do." Uhhh...duh.

[LWolf]

18. Not exactly.

I wouldn't say that I "don't care" about the bill. I dislike the bill. I care enough to want to see it fail, because I want authentic health CARE reform.

I care about CARE. I care enough about it to want universal, not-for-profit, single-payer health CARE, and to recognize a step back when I see it.

[Bullet1987]

19. You make a number of errors in your OP

1. Liberals aren't upset simply because we're not getting what we want. If that were the case, we would have been pissed from the beginning when they didn't put Single-Payer on the table. This is about populism. This is about a HCR bill that is a giveaway to the insurance industry and Big Pharma and does more harm than good. If it's a bad bill...don't pass it. This 2+2=5 logic in defending an indefensible bill is simply stunning from some people. I expected more from Krugman, Klein, etc who are shilling for this thing.

2. It is a mistake to relegate this to the "far left." This is populist outrage that crosses party lines, cut out that MSM deception bullsh*t. This is populism vs. corporatism. Women groups are against it too...are they far left? This bill is bad on sooo many levels.

3. They don't care about what the bill actually does, they are only concerned with what the bill doesn't do. Uhh...duh.

[Raine]

20. Denial is a powerful thing

keep believing that if it makes you feel better but your wrong.

[niceypoo]

21. Ah, so people dont like whats left of the bill because they are self serving...

The whole process is just one big attention seeking gambit! The anger is fake! I see it now! Thank you for this brilliant insight!

[Skittles]

23. you're an idiot

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

24. The OP is rude enough to merit a "Fuck You" reply