WOW....Ed Shultz was just tearing into Barack Obama

[Cali_Democrat]

Apparently Obama said something today on his bus tour that really ticked off Ed Shultz.

A teacher asked Obama a question about public sector unions and Obama mentioned the need for shared sacrifice. Ed said that unions have already sacrificed enough! He essentially said that it's the corporations and the wealthy that need to start sacrificing.

I gotta agree with Ed here. Unions have already sacrificed enough.

[DJ13]

1. Obama also went on (again) about "compromise shouldnt be a dirty word"

Im seriously doubting he'll ever understand what that says about standing up for Democratic principles.

[young but wise]

2. He's right.

[DJ13]

6. He's right, but only if you get something in return

Otherwise its not compromise, its surrender.

[Moostache]

140. +1,000,000,000,000

I am sick to death of people constantly championing "compromise" yet settling for "capitulation" and calling it "compromise".

When two parties disagree on something and yet BOTH give up some of their deeply held beliefs and principles to make a deal that both sides can live with but not necessarily champion, then THAT is a compromise.

When one side has its leader crowing in the press about getting "98% of everything I wanted"...well, my friends that is a lot more like bending over and grabbing your ankles than it is a "compromise"! These are the same people who elevate the stakes every time they start grabbing hostages for our president to negotiate for...first it was unemployment benefits, then it was the global economy and the credit rating of the USA...the next encore for these Emmy-Award winners is going to involve a preemptive nuclear strike against Mexico (that asshole Perry already floated the idea of fucking Predator drones as border defense!).

[pennylane100]

5. Sometimes he just baffles me.

He is like the family member that you know and love but always have to say to people, "well he really means well" he is just not good with words.

[nahant]

136. Just look at his policies!! The working class is being bent over for Wall Street profits!

He has betrayed the working class time after time!! And just what has he done for the working class? Cuts in SS taxes, which of course just help to destroy the only thing left for retirees.. Just look at how much your 401K has lost!! I know mine is shrinking and I am losing principle!!

[bhikkhu]

17. I guess I don't get it either

...having learned in high school civics the value of compromise, and how it was and is the primary cement of the "union of states".

It always makes a great deal of sense to me when Obama speaks about the strength of a people united, and that as a fundamental goal, and the foundation of the country.

[sad sally]

32. Please Mr. President: tell poor, sick, homeless, unemployed Americans what they don't need.

Obama says even Democrats will "defend everything, even if it's not working." He says some cuts are needed on things "we don't need." (6:31 p.m.)

[barefootaccountant]

53. Obama is not a Democrat

Obama is not a Democrat. If he were, he would have proposed a single-payer healthcare system, brought the troops home from Iraq and Afghanistan, not have extended the Bush tax cuts and agreed to an obscene estate tax reduction, never have put social security and medicare and medicaid on the table for cuts, put on his walking shoes and marched in Wisconsin, proposed material tax increases on the wealthy, not have bailed out Wall Street, selected Robert Reich instead of Wall Streeters as his economic advisors, pursued criminal investigations of all those financial services CEOs causing the economic collapse in 2008, proposed a major infrastructure bill, renegotiated NAFTA and other trade agreements, etc.

http://www.cpa-connecticut.com/blog/

[Rageneau]

55. And kept his promises regarding the Drug War.

Nice list, by the way.

[Mimosa]

130. AMEN!

The prison/military industrial complex continues.

[Carolina]

92. K&R, totally agree

This president is abominable (obaminable). I have been a loyal Democrat since JFK but I can't stomach this man any more. He's a repuke at heart

[Historic NY]

133. Neither was Ed Schultz WHO is ripping him.........

he did't become a conservative democrat until 2000. ....

[Fruittree]

61. What it says is we all have to be willing to give

in order to survive as a society. He's never said the wealthy should not be contributing more but there really needs to be flexibility on everyone's part including unions. I'd rather see some reduction in benefits than more people losing their jobs..Compromise is the foundation of making a democracy work.

[Hoyt]

64. I agree.

[Enthusiast]

69. Unions have been hit hard enough.

And as union workplaces have declined in number so has the wages and living standards of working Americans. Fewer union workers has resulted in more outsourcing, not less. The unionized workforce is now down to 7%, you feel they need to sacrifice more?

[Fruittree]

82. Absolutely...

But what is the answer? How do we compete in a world economy and maintain a high standard of living for our citizens? I'd like to go back to where we make here what we use but how to make it happen is the puzzle..There are just too many people and everything needs to be re-evaluated. Do we really need all the stuff money buys or is it better to shrink back our individual needs to that others can have the basics?

[Hydra]

112. Wrong foundation for your argument

There's 46 TRILLION dollars sitting at the top, doing about nothing.

46 Trillion/300 Million = $153,333 for every man, woman and child in America.

The problem is the thieves at the top owning our Gov't. There's more than enough for everybody.

[Fruittree]

113. And what about the rest of the world?

Or do they not matter? It's more than about money. It's about sustainable lifestyle and about what matters...I agree that wealth is unfairly distributed but it goes beyond that - The ultimate question is can the typical/desirable American lifestyle be sustained indefinitely? And can it be adopted worldwide without destroying the earth? That doesn't mean we shouldn't be taxing the wealthy more but sometimes it seems all this debt and need is a lot of smoke and mirrors...Money can be a hindrance. Maybe what people are looking for isn't really more money but just security.

[Hydra]

114. If you really want to get into it

I start in my back yard, but we could have everyone fed, clean water, housed and do it cleanly and in an environmentally sound way.

We can even reduce the population significantly by giving people options and treating diseases.

The tools are all there, but the mindset is broken on both sides. One side is looking for profit, and the other side is looking to use the same system to fix things.

There ARE other options.

[Fruittree]

124. I think you've said using different words basically

what I'm trying to say...We need to think expansively and long term and it can't work if everyone is trying to maintain the status quo and hold onto their own little bit of whatever benefits them - Which comes back to - we have to look at everything openly and without fear of change.

[Auntie Bush]

131. It's hard not to fear change if you are

on a small barely livable fixed income. Any sacrifice (decrease in funds) at all can mean the difference between survival and hardship or welfare.

[Fruittree]

154. Absolutely

Which is why we have to protect people in that situation...My mom lives off social security and it's not easy by any means. After bills and food, she has I believe $60 left per month. The point is though that we might have to make some changes in order to keep SS and other programs running in such a way that they can be best targeted to those in the greatest need and, lest someone think so, I DO NOT mean privatization - That would be a disaster!

[on point]

138. Apply tariffs to equalize costs and stop the race to the bottom.

If some other country doesn't want environmental laws, climate change laws, health laws, safety laws, child labor, prison labor laws - OK that is their choice, we don't have a right to intervene in their country.

However, they should face tariffs to import any product or services into this country to equalize the costs PLUS a 10% penalty.

[Fruittree]

155. I've thought about that too but what

constitutes "some other country" when so many of "our" companies are spread out all over the world and bringing stuff to sell back here..They do business in countries that have all the negative qualities you mention. Didn't Pres. Obama try to eliminate tax benefits to companies that create jobs overseas and give breaks to companies that hire American? That, I thought was a great idea which of course died in the congress. All the globalization is like trying to put a genie back in the bottle...

[on point]

157. I don't think it matters who owns the company. Only where it is produced.

It might mean that some producers might find it cheaper all of sudden to produce in the US.
Think of it like a vat tax. Even a compound product sourced from many countries would have a 'value equalization tax' applied to each part, based on source country. Yes that would be more inefficient than having no tariffs, but then the answer is for those complaining to raise the standards in the other countries so they are not subject to the 'VET' and the inefficiency goes away.

There is still the possibility that there will be inherent, genuine competitive advantage in some places, but it won't be distorted by unfair competition and a race to the bottom.

[Fruittree]

158. Makes sense to me...

Particularly since so many American companies are now American in name only and do nothing to strengthen the United States.

[Ganja Ninja]

65. Someone should explain to him the difference between ...

compromise and total capitulation.

[indepat]

108. Capitulation ain't compromise and setting the framework to gut social Security (pre-paid benefits)

in the wake of extending junior's tax cuts ain't shared sacrifice. Enough with the disingenuous hyperbole, please. :patriot:

[Duke Newcombe]

3. Now, now, Ed...haven't you heard?

"He doesn't suck as much as the other guys!!!!111"

[elleng]

4. Yes, but too bad ed didn't let us hear everything POTUS said;

turned him off. A journalist he's not.

[Bluenorthwest]

10. Nope, he's a commentator. Doubt he ever claimed to be a

journalist. His show is not 'the news' it is opinion.

[CakeGrrl]

7. This just screams "NEEDS CONTEXT" for some odd reason.

Links to the town hall video can be found here:

http://www.whatisbarackdoing.com

FULL transcript and video of MN town hall

Where Schultz is concerned, it's best to hear the information firsthand.

[dennis4868]

9. DUers...

don't need that...they just take words from big ed like they are words from god whether it's true or not as long as it makes Obama look bad...this is DU for crying out loud...

[Fuddnik]

18. I saw the words from the questioner and Obama.

It was fucking true.

He said the public unions need to sacrifice more.

I say, President Obama, "Eat your fucking peas and go home"! I want a good primary opponent!

[jwirr]

33. So did I. It is true. He wants us to sacrifice some more and he thinks

he has accomplished something in his deals with the rethugs. I do not understand. Who is this man we have elected?

[Enthusiast]

71. "I want a good primary opponent!"

Me too. I don't vote for anti-labor 'Democrats'.

[uponit7771]

95. Hell, they don't need big ed either...just ANYTHING negative about Obama ANYTHING

[Control-Z]

48. Thank you.

Ed is the democrat's Rush, at times. And he doesn't like the president.

Edit: for punctuation.

[Puglover]

73. Bullshit.

He likes the President just fine. He simply calls the President on the stupid shit that rolls out of his mouth. Obviously you don't listen to Ed when he is giving Obama kudos.

[uponit7771]

96. ...or even calls him on shit that does NOT roll out of his mouth? really?

[Control-Z]

115. I would hate for someone

to like me "just fine" the way Ed likes the president.

[Puglover]

116. Like I said.

Listen to him. He isnt about 24 in 7 criticism towards Obama. He gives praise when praise is due. However, when horseshit like "shared sacrifice" flys out of Obamas mouth he calls him on it. Oh wait, I forgot. EVERYTHING that comes out of Obama's mouth is nothing short of praise worthy. You're right, Ed sucks. :eyes:

[Control-Z]

118. Of course, I said Ed sucks.

No. I said he acts like Rush at times. I really don't care for that kind of bulging artery anger by anyone. And I believe he doesn't like the president.

"EVERYTHING that comes out of Obama's mouth is nothing short of praise worthy." Really? You don't even know me. That is so far from the truth you sound foolish.

[Puglover]

127. I wasn't so much referring to you as the general tone around

here. You are right. I don't know you. And to be honest his icky "Rushbo" style can bug me at times. But this time he was spot on. Obama's seeming inability to address a specific problem without including all of us in his "shared sacrifice" meme is utterly nauseating to me.

And honestly a few days ago he was really defending the Prez. He generally does so when the right attacks him. And he should.

[BeyondGeography]

8. All unions have sacrificed enough?

Not where I'm from.

Ex: the average NYS Trooper earns a salary of $112K per year and contributes nothing to his pension (the state kicks in 20% of his salary). Granted, it can be dangerous work (not compared with city cops) but there are literally hundreds of qualified (i.e. passed the required test) applicants for every job and more people freaked by the private sector who want to join every year.

So why so generous? Wouldn't the state be justified to try and get a better deal, particularly when those who are on the waiting list would take less?

You can freak out every time Obama says something centrist about unions, but political suicide would be to say all unions everywhere have already sacrificed enough.

[Bluenorthwest]

11. How long does the average NY Trooper work?

And exactly how much above average is that compared to other public Union employees? Does the high pay seem to reflect the shorter career time? I bet it does.
And I bet you do not know the answers to these important questions, and that you made up your opinion from that one talking point you heard.

[BeyondGeography]

14. Oh, don't worry, the pension fairy takes care of them until they die

You sound as if they are treated like athletes or something.

Look, there are major pension abuses in NY; Cuomo dealt with some as AG:

http://www.instituteforlegalreform.com/component/ilr_news/30/article/I777871665.html

That's the LIRR; people going on disability post-retirement in huge numbers hoping no one would notice. Unfortunately for unions, these are the relatively low-level scams that people latch on to. If Democrats have been forced to take a tougher line with unions, some of the blame lies with excesses by unions.

[Armstead]

22. But where do you draw the line to avoid the slippery slope?

The problem as I see it is the the middle class keeps getting chipped at, which leads to death by a thousand cuts.

Lower salaries a little bit, then a little bit more and eventually perhaps state troopers are earning the equivalent of a Wal Mart greeter. ANd it hapoens everywhere, so the accumulated result is a nation of people holding good jobs, but not getting paid squat, no health or other benefits, etc.

That's how national living standards are being lowered, and the middle class is being increasingly pushed closer to the status of working poor.

Meanwhile the money that used to go to those workers gets sucked upwards to the tiny upper class, who keep making more and more.
(Or in the case of public workers, tax breaks to corporations and the wealthy.)

Where does it all end?

Thst is not to say the union members should not be willing to compromise, and accept they won't get all they want, especially in bad times.

But in overall terms, the unions should not be scapegoated for problems that are not their fault. And President Obama should not feeding the right wing anti-labor memes like that.

[jeff47]

26. Yes, because you really want to go low bid on police officers

That always works well.

[BeyondGeography]

27. They can't even contribute to their own pensions?

No give? They've already sacrificed enough, per Ed Schultz? Yeah, go out there in this economy and sell that to people.

[jeff47]

28. It's a benefit they negotiated. So what?

My employer throws money into my 401K. It's a benefit I negotiated with them.

Has the concept of negotiation become so foreign to us with all these decades of constant capitulation?

[BeyondGeography]

29. The thread is about the need for give in future negotitations

And Obama getting a heap of shit for saying the obvious. For example:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=post&forum=102&topic_id=4962370&mesg_id=4962370

[boppers]

46. My grandfather (on my mother's side) was a triple dipper.

Military pension.
USPS pension.
Civil servant pension.

In today's dollars, he was pulling in about $120K a year.

He was also a rapist and a child abuser, but people who argue that they should be financed by the pain of others tend to have an underlying commonality.... sociopaths tend to be that way.

[newthinking]

56. Nice little Republican distortion

Sure it happens, but it is no nearly prevelant with current retirees.

Just like all cities are full of $500k administrative staff like all the dittoheads were saying last year.

[boppers]

59. Nope, it's not prevalent.

Nor is it non-existent.

Ignoring such things, however, brings the whole system down.

[newthinking]

100. So don't place it in the political sphere

Most public retirement plans started changing well before all this hoopla. They have been doing so for the last decade.

Bringing unrepresentive and exaggerated arguments into the discussion only serves to distract from fixing the issue, and certainly does not belong on a progressive board. You seriously need to reconsider this argument.

[boppers]

145. It is, for better or worse, part of the problem.

Ignoring outliers does make them cease to exist.

[Union Scribe]

111. Yeah, it's sad to see GOP anti-worker talking points here. nt

[boppers]

146. Yeah, when facts are "anti-worker", blame the GOP.

The rich need their pensions! Anything less is anti-worker!

er.... no.

Once you are wealthy, you don't get to live in a mansion and proclaim that you are "pro-worker".

Either you give the money away to workers and the poor, or you don't.

[jeff47]

83. But that's not the basis of your objections.

Your objections is that state troopers don't pay into their pension fund.

Instead of tearing everyone down to the same level of misery, why don't we work on making it better for everyone?

[Enthusiast]

72. It would be political suicide

to say unions everywhere have already sacrificed enough?

Damn, you're an anti-labor Democrat. Unbelievable. Centrist? Look at this picture. Rachel is illustrating that the American people polled want to preserve union rights at 77%. That is way way above centrist. So the centrist position is stop attacking the unions. A lesson lost on you, apparently.

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Enthusiast]

81. Unions have been making concessions for decades.

What has it accomplished? It has accomplished more outsourcing and lower wages. Your race to the bottom philosophy won't fly with me. An anti-labor Democratic Party is a dead Democratic Party.

[Mimosa]

134. Industry and government beat unions by off-shoring

Unions are about dead. TPTB have pretty much turned every working person into a serf. :(

[n2doc]

90. divide and conquer. I see you have learned well

How about fighting to lift people up, not drag them down?

[BeyondGeography]

91. Yawn

How about aiming at the Republicans instead of Obama for every little thing?

There are legitimate reasons to criticize Obama. This isn't one of them.

[in_cog_ni_to]

119. My G-d...if that isn't a Rethug proposal, I don't know what is! Kick the cop to the curb because

he's making too much and there's a RAT foaming at the mouth to take his job for less pay. SO FUCKING REPUBLICAN! Funny...all these Unions, pensions, benefits, SS, and Medicare were just fucking fine until this shit started with the Ryan Plan...now, all of a sudden, teachers are paid too much, cops are paid too much, SS needs to be "fixed" and Medicare needs to be cut. What a bunch of fucking BULLSHIT. They have the money to bailout Wall Street and now they're broke when it comes to honoring promised pensions and benefits to Union workers. BULLSHIT.

[BeyondGeography]

121. So fucking true is more like it

Oh, reality, it bites so hard.

Yes, anyone who doesn't leverage their personal situation to the hilt in our system is making a mistake, because the rules can change any time. Personally, I think it's no way to live, especially as I get older, and I spend much of my free time searching for my Italian ancestors so I can ask them what the hell they ever saw in this place.

But, getting back to the idea of communicating in real terms to voters, have Obama go out there and peddle a no-compromise position on labor negotiations to taxpayers, most of whom are getting their ass kicked every day in the private sector. Those rethugs you associate me with would be high-fiving all the way back to the WH.

Cheers.

[Mimosa]

132. State troopers risk their lives.

Their jobs are very different.

[asjr]

12. Ed is protecting his job. He remembers what

happened to Cenk.

[hlthe2b]

13. I was cringing as well when I heard Obama respond to that teacher...

If he makes me feel this dismal, given my intense previous support to get him elected and a very strong desire to continue to support him, I hate to think how he is affecting those less committed. It just seems as though I feel a big slap across the face from Obama and his administration nearly every week on one issue or campaign stance or another. I got to say, that unless the RETHUGS continue to field such horrendously extreme candidates to potentially oppose him, we could have a very tough reelection race. And, that scares me even more than Obama currently depresses me.

[Divine Discontent]

63. +1!

[LiberalFighter]

15. A good comeback would had been...

You do realize that we have been sacrificing for the kids for years long before you were ever in school? You do realize that Arne Duncan is not a friend of teachers or the students they teach? You do realize that when cuts are made they are made to hurt teachers and the students they teach? You do realize that without public education you would not be President.

[Pirate Smile]

16. So bizarre. I listened to the town hall. He listed off all the good things people have because of

Unions even if they aren't in one - the weekend, minimum wage, worker safety issues, etc. He also had a great rif on what government is at the earlier town hall - that it's the soldiers & the FEMA workers who show up to
Help after a tornado, cops, teachers, firefighters, who keeps you safe & does research that leads to huge advancements and sends a man to the moon.

He did mention that when times are tough it isn't surprising that private sector resentment could build up toward some of the benefits like retiring at 55 with a pension & so it might be a good idea to be willing to come to the table to negotiate somewhat. I'm not surprised that Ed managed to somehow turn both of these Town Halls into some sort of attack on labor but that is certainly not the impression given off to someone who actually watched or listened to them.

[eridani]

21. Well, we couldn't POSSIBLY consider unionizing more private sector workers

--and making it possible for them to retire at 55, now could we? I mean, how would the rich keep the younger generation poor and broke if so many more jobs opened up for them? :sarcasm:

[Pirate Smile]

30. He also talked about how the FAA fight was really about Republicans trying to block worker's right

to organize but Dems refused to budge on that - and how unions are what built the middle class which is what made America strong.

Ed really managed to cherry-pick to distort what all President Obama said today about the importance of the right to collectively bargain (he went into an explanation of that too) and the importance of unions.

[eridani]

44. Still, give me one good reason why union members need to "sacrifice" more n/t

[Armstead]

24. Sometimes the attempt to be the "balanced adult" only feeds the right wing hoo ha machine.

The message from the other side is so relentless against labor and unions, that the Democrats ought to ge defending them just as relentlessly.

"Reminding" workers and unions that they too have to be responsible is sort of condescending and insulting, especially when many have made sacrifices.

How about just standing up for unions and workers, without those qualifiers?

[Pirate Smile]

34. Pres. Obama has always been a nuance guy and that isn't going to change. He'll always

acknowledge a part of the other POV that he can say is understandable.

[Armstead]

84. I'm a nuance guy too. But sometimes nuance is NOT what is needed

The opponents deal in absolutes. "Unions are horrible because the members are greedy and want too much. And that's what has bankrupted government and stifles business. So we must eliminate unions."


That is the message people are being barraged with every day from the other side.

They do not need to hear the leader of the party that supposedly represents labor rights and unions to be lecturing unions about their need to be "responsible" (and thus implying that they have been irresponsible). What IS needed to counteract the lies from the right is a clear defense of unions. Period.

Nuance can come in dealing with specific situations. But not at a time when it is a struggle to keep the labor movement alive.

[newthinking]

57. Selective hearing

Yes he did, but then he went went into a four paragraph lecture that was filled with points one would expect from the other side. I read the transcript.

[bbgrunt]

19. Schultz went off on his statement for good reason.

[BluegrassDem]

20. Some unions are ridiculous

Here in my city, we're just about broke and the city employees pay NOTHING towards their health care....NOTHING!! So the city says they should chip and pay something towards their health care and all hell has broke loose. The unions are talking about going on strike. It's ridiculous and no one really feels sorry for them.

[boppers]

52. To be fair: They gave up wages to pay for their health care.

They can pay "NOTHING" and get their monthly premium pulled out of their wages, or they could pay 100%, and work for higher wages.

Same cost.

[Armstead]

89. Some of ANYTHING is ridiculous. That's not the fricking point

Any human institution, movement or sphere of activity is inevitably going to have some ridiculous aspects, abuses, corruption, etc.

That, unfortunately is the nature of life, because those are one part of human nature.

But the real issue is which is least prone to those darker aspects, and which are likely to do the most good.

Slamming unions because sometimes they are not always perfect is a right-wing argument to eliminate unions.

[boppers]

151. So I tried to flip your words:

"Slamming unions because sometimes they are not always perfect is a right-wing argument to eliminate unions." (Original)

"Slamming bosses because sometimes they are not always perfect is a left-wing argument to eliminate..." (Modified)

I couldn't figure out the last word. "bosses"?

Any suggestions?

[Fuddnik]

101. That's how it's supposed to be.

I worked for 31 years and never paid extra for my health insurance.

But, here's how it works. I was also on the union negotiating committee.

Those insurance benefits and pension plans weren't freebies. It was all part of a negotiated wage agreement. We took lower pay increases in lieu of insurance benefits and pension contributions. It was all the same package, just allocated in different ways.

The unions should go on fucking strike. We've been bearing the brunt of "don't tax the rich" policies for 0ver 30 years, and it helps drag everyone else down.

Just as every working person benefited from the union movement, if they succeed in tearing us down, you're next. Guaranteed.

[grahamhgreen]

139. No one should be paying for health care. Except as taxes.

[vaberella]

23. Doesn't he always blow hot and cold. Why do you listen to him? n/t

[Cali_Democrat]

38. Really?

Ed Shultz seems pretty consistent to me in his support of the unions.

[boppers]

51. What Union is he in?

Simple question.

[NYCGirl]

66. He's in AFTRA.

http://aftra.org/

[boppers]

135. Huh. I'm unable to find a source on that.

Lots of speculation, though, so it's worth a look.

[NYCGirl]

156. He MUST be to work at MSNBC. Or on radio. And get paid.

Even Joe Scarborough is a union member. Even Rush Limbaugh is a union member. Even a big GOPer like Kelsey Grammer is a member of THREE unions — AFTRA, SAG, and Actors' Equity.

[vaberella]

107. I'm not speaking on his support on Unions...but on the President.

One moment he's all for Obama and saying Obama is doing for the Unions. Next minute he claims Obama has turned his back on Unions---while even people in Unions support the President. It's more so the pundits who turn switch from left to right on Obama.

[Cali_Democrat]

120. Can you please provide me with some links and specific examples?

Thanks.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

126. Actually, for those of us who listen to Ed's radio show on a daily basis, you'll

just have to take our word for it, or buy his podcast.

I like Ed a lot. He's a nice guy and full of fight. But, he's far too emotional and not well informed. What many of us are saying on this forum is true: one minute, he's lavishing praise on Obama, the next, he's tearing him a new one. It's all good. However, his emotions are extreme in either direction, minute to minute, day to day.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

125. That is because Ed is ill informed and very emotionally unstable.

I podcast him and listen to him on a daily basis. You are so correct. One minute he's hot. The next, he's cold.

He's uniformed and unstable. But, I do love listening to him because he is a fighter. I just wish he were a bit more up on the facts and less emotional.

[boppers]

25. Anti-tax, homophobic, misogynistic bigot doesn't like Obama, and spins words for maximum dollars?

Shocking, I tell you.

:eyes:

[ClarkUSA]

31. Remember, Ed Schultz was a Republican who wanted to run for a House seat during the Tom DeLay years.

Schultz told the Los Angeles Times that he "lined up with the Republicans because they were anti-tax, and I wanted to make a lot of money...."

Schultz pondered a run as a Republican for the U.S. House of Representatives against Democratic Rep. Earl Pomeroy in 1994, but decided against it after visiting with state Republican leaders.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Schultz

[999998th word]

35. Looked like an edit.

[boppers]

37. What looked like an edit?

What do you mean?

[Go2Peace]

39. And out come the nasty smears..

Not nearly as well done as the Republicans.. but hey, keep it up, you'll get closer.

[boppers]

40. No need for smears. His record is enough.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Schultz

[vaberella]

104. How are facts smears? The man even said publicly not to vote and boycott Dems.

Like that's logical in order to get Republicans out. Seems to me, he's working for Repubs by making those sorts of comments.

[999998th word]

141. The film clip looked like it was edited.

Taken 'out of context' should have played the whole thing.
We can't afford to sit any election out unless we want this country overtaken by the psychopaths who bought the republican party.




I edited my comment for clarification.

[Fuddnik]

41. Sorry pal.

I saw the clip.

I saw the question.

And I saw Obama's answer.

He really screwed the pooch on this one.

He really passed every line in the sand tonight. And I've been pretty lenient on him.

Will not now, or ever give him my vote AGAIN in the future. He's dead to me now. Bring on the primary or bring on President Perry. You deserve it!

[boppers]

43. Did you see the Sherrod clip too?

The ACORN clips?

I tend not to believe right-wingers who show me "clips".

For some reason.

[Enthusiast]

76. "He's dead to me now."

Me too.

[Carolina]

93. I totally agree

This president is abominable (obaminable). I have been a loyal Democrat since JFK but I can't stomach this man any more (literally makes me want to vomit). He's a repuke at heart

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[boppers]

49. Attack the post, not the poster.,

What Union is Ed in, BTW?

I thought as much.

[NYCGirl]

70. AFTRA.

www.aftra.org

[Union Scribe]

110. Like "the poster" tackled the message instead of smearing Ed?

Goose, gander. Nothing more loathsome than someone who dishes and can't take.

[boppers]

147. Was Ed posting?

What is his username?

If I attacked Ed when he was posting, I want to apologize to him.

[Puglover]

74. You're smearing Schultz

because he called the President oh his bullshit. And citing his credibility by bringing up him calling Laura Ingranham a name? :rofl: Seriously.

[vaberella]

105. Only on DU is a Fact called Smear. n/t

[Puglover]

75. Edit Dupe

[Fuddnik]

102. It wasn't Eds words that pissed me off.

I didn't even listen to him. I was too pissed off after listening to a "Democratic" President spout this right-wing bullshit.

[AlmostUlyanov]

36. Sweet Self-Immolation

The credo of the Democratic Party.

[pnorman]

42. This appears to be the interchange:

7:10 p.m. -- A former teacher asks Obama whether he can do anything to help support collective bargaining rights for public sector unions.

Obama, who got big support from unions, celebrates their contributions to American society, from weekends to the eight-hour day -- but also says public unions "should be on the side of reform when reform is needed."

Judge for yourself whether or not this is sufficient cause to "primary him out" next year, and virtually GUARANTEE a Reptilican in the White House!!

[rug]

45. The operative phrase is "former teacher".

Maybe he just needs some reforming before he gets his job back.

[boppers]

54. Maybe he needs to get a job?

I do not get the mentality of able-bodied people expecting others to pay for them.... to not work.

I do expect to work until I die. I'm 39, and SS has been a joke most of my life.

We (my generation) know the money's gone.

We pay in to take care of our elders, but we also know the game is over.

[newthinking]

58. Social Security is gone? Only with attitudes like that

How in the world can any progressive see that as acceptable.

Every freaking civilized modern country in the world provides something like SS to their elders, and most are more generous. What kind of "liberal" society do you think we will have without social security?

The only reason it is in danger is from weak minded people who accept talking points over financial reality and lack moral fortitude. It is only weakened because it is under attack, not because it is not completely a realistic and sustainable program.

The money is there, if we lose SS it is only because we frankly don't give a fuck about each other. We should at least be honest about it.

[boppers]

60. The money was spent on T-Bills.

There's no actual money left, aside from 2T on paper.

Moral fortitude cannot make that money.

"Caring" cannot make that money.

It's been spent.

It's gone.

The "me" generation made sure that future generations were broke.

[Enthusiast]

79. The "me" generation?

The "me" generation built up a 2.7 trillion dollar surplus! How does that equate with being the "Me" generation? Your attitude absolutely sucks.

We made sure future generations were broke? How? How did we do that? I didn't vote for the Bush tax cuts and two unpaid for wars of choice. I didn't ask for medicare part D, that was all Dubya Bush's doing. You owe us an explanation.

[newthinking]

98. Treasury bills need to be honored and there is plenty of money. Just need to prioritize humanely

We would never consider defaulting on the T-Bills to foreign governments and peoples, but we are easily discussing doing so with our own people. That is total bullshit and needs calling out forcefully.

[Enthusiast]

123. Right on!

They are more loyal to China than to U.S. citizens. What does that tell us? :eyes:

[boppers]

142. The 2.7 trillion "surplus" is an accounting gimmick.

I give you a dollar. You take that dollar, and say "Hey, I'm good for a dollar's worth of credit". You get a 1 dollar loan. You then spend *both* dollars.

Repeat 2.7 trillion times.

You now owe 2.7 trillion dollars. You do not have 2.7 trillion dollars in the bank. You have a "surplus".... of 2.7 trillion in debt, after spending 5.4 trillion dollars.

"We made sure future generations were broke? How? How did we do that? I didn't vote for the Bush tax cuts and two unpaid for wars of choice. I didn't ask for medicare part D, that was all Dubya Bush's doing."

By calling a debt a "surplus", for over 30 years, a huge bill was run up. It goes back to Carter and Reagan, and has been carried through ever since. Since voting age is 18 (since Nixon?), this crisis was caused by the 48+ set, and more specifically, the boomer/"me" generation that thought they could call a debt a "surplus", and somehow, someway, nobody would notice.

For reference, see "Home Equity Loans", aka "Draining all value of assets for personal use". They are also quite popular for the "me" folks.... "my children don't need this, and I need another latte! And a new car!"

And yes, my "attitude" sucks, because multiple generations now have to deal with the massive debt inflicted upon them by their prior generations using magical thinking.... to do basic math.

Math doesn't care about "attitude".

[Enthusiast]

152. Right wing talking points.

Nonsense. The Boomers paid the FICA, it is owed to them just as surely as it is owed to the Chinese.

Why would you call those of us that paid extra contributions to social security the "me" generation? This makes no sense. I suspect you are only here to make people angry.

[newthinking]

97. It sure as hell wasn't me, nor most folks I know wanted that

It was the politicians that did it, and the people should not get the shaft. We can easily solve the issue.

The US is like a family making $100k a year who spends out whittles away their extra cash. Then turns around and complains because they can't pay their bills. This is all bullshit, smoke and mirrors. The fact that you cannot avoid is that there is plenty of money to fulfill the obligations. But we can't have a decent conversation about it because of the propaganda, and also, because we are becoming so selfishly obsessed.

The last few decades, and even this one, have been more prosperous in the US and the world than at *any* time in history. Our problems are completely driven by poor priorities and lack of morality and will to "do the right thing".

I expect Republicans to buy into this thinking. But progressives and liberals should consider it more deeply and thoughtfully, and not participate in the mascaraed.

[boppers]

143. "we can't have a decent conversation about it because of the propaganda"

True words.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Puglover]

77. +1

[Enthusiast]

78. SS has been a joke most of your life?

What about it has been a joke? It is only going to be "gone" because you buy into right wing talking points and even repeat them on DU. Why don't you just call it a ponzi scheme like the righties do?

[newthinking]

99. Exactly.

[boppers]

148. It cannot self-sustain if GDP or population growth are negative for prolonged periods.

"What about it has been a joke?"

Healthy people being paid not to work, at a cost to workers.

"It is only going to be "gone" because you buy into right wing talking points and even repeat them on DU."

It's math. It's not up for debate, because it's math.

"Why don't you just call it a ponzi scheme like the righties do?"

Ponzi schemes are voluntary (SS is not, save for clever accounting), and pay out to early investors, because they can keep growing "volunteers". SS does not have an expanding base of "volunteers".

[Fuddnik]

103. They were saying the same thing when I was 19.

I'm 60 now. They must have been mistaken all this time.

[boppers]

150. Or they were correct all the time.

What did our national debt look like when you were 19?

[barefootaccountant]

50. About time

It's about time that Ed Schultz and MSNBC started criticizing Obama for not being a progressive nor a Democrat.

Obama is suffering from the Stockholm Syndrome: he has been persuaded by Wall Street that the Republican agenda is the course to pursue.

When will a progressive step up and challenge Obama in a primary.

http://www.cpa-connecticut.com

[Chalfont]

62. Shared Sacrifice, My Ass

Fuck shared sacrifice. The rich have sacrificed nothing. They are the only ones who need to sacrifice anything.

[theaocp]

85. The rich can help out the country willingly or be forced.

They know this and are arming themselves against an angry populace. Sharks with frickin' laser beams on their heads are on the horizon. Welcome to DU! :hi:

[Enthusiast]

68. If Obama expects to be re-elected

he has to repair the damage he has done to his relationship with the unions. First he has to stop digging the hole deeper. I cannot fathom how an adviser would tell him this is a good approach. Nearly 80% of the American people polled favor preserving collective bargaining.

Obama, pull the convention out of right to work state North Carolina. Just a suggestion. If you are really interested in being re-elected that is.

[ProSense]

86. The President said what?

Video

<...>

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What can you do to help support collective bargaining in the states? And most of all, support the public -- the public sector unions, the middle class, many of whom are union members?

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There are a whole range of things that people take for granted, even if they're not in a union, that they wouldn't have had if it had not been collective bargaining. I do say, though, to my friends in the public sector unions that it is important that you are on the side of reform where reform is need. Remember we talked about shared sacrifice and burden sharing. Well, this is an area where there has to be burden sharing as well.

SCHULTZ: What? Did I hear that? That is the most troubling thing that I have ever heard President Obama say....

<...>

So Schultz take a statement that the President has made repeatedly and acts like it's the first time he's heard it?

Ridiculous.

[Sheepshank]

87. but you'll ALWAYS agree with anyone over Obama...nothing new

a continued trend that gets quite predictable. Want me to find you some more anti Obama rhetoric and save you some time searching?

[AtomicKitten]

94. +1

The breathless fervor to post anything, and I mean anything negative here about the president is remarkable. FR's got nothing on DU in that regard.

[Lasher]

88. Interesting commentary about that speech

Here's a link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x747605

[bvar22]

106. Solidarity!

Who will STAND and FIGHT for THIS American Majority?
The California Progressive Caucus WILL!!

You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.

Solidarity!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[ClarkUSA]

109. Schultz = a shit-stirring MSM whore. One of his guests on the show found out what Obama REALLY said.

She's recanted her criticism of President Obama yesterday, which was based on Schultz' short clip and his subsequent melodramatic outrage rant.

"Joan Walsh: What Obama really said about unions...

Tuesday a reader pointed me to Obama's full remarks, and having read the whole transcript, I think my reaction was unfair. In fact, Obama spent a lot of time talking about the importance of public sector workers and acknowledging the poor treatment of teachers particularly."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=748022&mesg_id=748022

[in_cog_ni_to]

122. Here's what he ACTUALLY SAID, not what Joan says he said... from the transcript:

Q Hi, my name is Bev Kromgezmi (ph), and I actually used to teach school in the district in which Seed Savers is located. And we have a number of students, former students here, that I taught.

THE PRESIDENT: How was she? Was she a good teacher? (Applause.) You got thumbs up.

Q What can I say?

THE PRESIDENT: What did you teach?

Q High school social studies.

THE PRESIDENT: Well, that’s important stuff.

Q Many unions, especially public sector unions, helped you get elected in 2008. Those public sector unions and their members gained their salaries and benefits through collective bargaining. Recently, those benefits have been under attack. And I realize that this is a state issue mostly, but what can you do to help support collective bargaining in the states and, most of all, support the public sector unions, the middle class, many of whom are union members? Thank you. (Applause.)

THE PRESIDENT: Well, first of all, let’s make one thing clear. The right of workers to come together and join a union is part of what built America’s middle class. It’s the reason why we’ve got a minimum wage. (Applause.) It’s the reason why folks have weekends. It’s the reason why you have basic protections on the job from an abusive employer.

There are a whole range of things that people take for granted, even if they’re not in a union, that they wouldn’t have had if it had not been for collective bargaining. (Applause.) So I think it is very important, whether you are in a union or not — and I speak particularly to young people, because you’ve grown up at a time when in a lot of circles “union” somehow is a dirty word — to understand all this is is people joining together so they’ve got a little more leverage; so they’ve got better working conditions, better wages; they can better support their family.

And a lot of us entered into the middle class because our parent or a grandparent was in a union. Remember that. (Applause.) When I hear this kind of anti-union rhetoric and anti-union assaults, I’m thinking these folks have amnesia. They don’t remember that that helped build our middle class and strengthen our economy.

Now, you’re right. Most of this activity right now is being done at the state level, although I will tell you that some of the assaults on collective bargaining are taking place at the federal level. You remember this FAA situation where they were shutting down the airports for — threatening to shut down the airports and we were going to be laying off tens of thousands of people? The reason that happened was because folks on the other side in the House of Representatives decided, let’s try to slip in a provision that could make it harder for people to collectively bargain in the aviation industry. And Democrats wouldn’t go along. And so they said, okay, well, we’re not going to renew funding for this.

So we’re seeing some of that at the federal level as well, and we’re fighting back, pushing back against these efforts to diminish the capacity to exercise their basic freedoms and their basic rights.

Now, at the state level, in addition to just providing vocal support for public employees, what I also have been trying to do is to help states so that they can meet their obligations to their public employees and to emphasize how important it is to our future collectively that we have, for example, teachers that are getting paid a good wage. (Applause.) We can’t recruit the kinds of teachers that we need in the classroom.

And in most countries that are doing well right now educationally, their teachers are revered. They get paid on par with doctors and engineers, because there is an understanding that this is a critical profession for the future of the nation. (Applause.)

I do say, though, to my friends in the public sector unions that it is important that you are on the side of reform where reform is needed. Because the truth of the matter is, is that at a time when everybody is belt-tightening, there is nothing wrong with a union saying to itself, you know what, we know budgets are hard right now. Let’s sit down and say we’re willing to negotiate so that we’re making some sacrifices to maintain the number of teachers in the classroom and keep class sizes at a reasonable level. We’re willing to make some modifications in terms of how our pension systems work so that they’re sustainable for the next generation of teachers as long as it’s a conversation, as opposed to it simply being imposed and collective bargaining rights being stripped away.

So I think it’s important — remember we talked about shared sacrifice and burden sharing. Well, this is an area where there’s got to be burden sharing as well. If a public sector employee is able to retire at 55 with 80 percent of their wages, and the average public sector employee has got a 401(k) that they’ve just seen decline by about 20 percent and they have no idea how they’re going to retire, and they’re feeling burdened by a lot of taxes and they don’t feel like the public sector employers are making any adjustments whatsoever to reflect the tough economic realities that are facing folks who are not protected, then there’s going to be a natural backlash.

If there’s a feeling that unions aren’t partners in reform processes in things like education, then they’re going to end up being an easy target. So there’s got to be an understanding of, on the one hand, we’ve got to revere public employees — I was saying when I was in Cannon Falls that people are tired of politics, but they’re not tired of government. They may not realize it, but government are our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq. Government are our teachers in the classroom. Government are the FEMA folks who help people when there’s a flood or a tornado or a natural disaster. (Applause.)

But we also have to acknowledge — and sometimes Democrats aren’t good at this — is acknowledging that not every program in government is working perfectly and we’ve got to make adjustments to become more efficient and more productive, just like the private sector does. And the more we’re willing to be open to new ideas and reform and change, the more we’re going to be able to rally public opinion behind all the outstanding work that public employees do as opposed to public opinion being turned against public employees.

VIDEO and TRANSCRIPT at link:

http://www.shallownation.com/2011/08/15/president-obama-decorah-iowa-town-hall-video-aug-15-2011-midwest-bus-tour-speech-at-seed-savers-exchange/

[Vidar]

117. Good for Ed, and shame on Obama.

[Mosaic]

128. Now is not the time to attack our own

Obama is far from perfect, but he is our own. Shultz is a corporate media, entertainment, sold out, pos. His opinions matter about as much as burnt toast. He pretends to care for the poor while living the life of a millionaire. Media pundits can be demagogues too.

Support our President for a 2nd term. Nothing else matters, unless you seek that bloody revolution. If you do I am not on your side.

[grahamhgreen]

137. Obama has been attacking his own for 3 years. When will he let up?

Shultz is defending.

[McCamy Taylor]

129. "Shared sacrifice" is the "compassionate conservativism" of this administration

[Tx4obama]

144. Transcript and additional links on the link below

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x748017

[Hydrated]

149. Give the bloke a break!

Most countries (including mine) would welcome an intelligent leader like Mr Obama.

[great white snark]

153. Absobloodylootely.

Welcome to DU!

:toast: