The taste of pure, shitty pragmatic politics...

[HardWorkingDem]

Is anyone else out there as disgusted as me in the realization that the turd of a health care bill that has been foisted upon us HAS to pass no matter what?

Is one reason why so many of us are angry, is that we KNOW if this bill is not been passed in whatever form it ends up being in, then there would be a very, very good chance the loss of a Democratically controlled congress would happen next year and Obama's future fortunes will be greatly tied to this bill?


But what really, really flummoxes me is, our party has a stronger hold on federal government right now, but Bush was able to get more drastic and nasty things done with less.

[Laelth]

1. This bill does not have to pass.

And the consequences of passing it are far worse than the consequences of ditching it and moving on.

Yes, Obama may, for a little while, be weaker and may be seen as ineffective (as happened to Clinton). On the other hand, passing this bill will almost certainly be a disaster for the Democratic Party due to the widespread loathing of the mandate.

If we pass this bill, I think there's a much greater chance that we will lose one house of Congress in 2010. If we don't pass it, I think we can easily hold on to Congress, and, perhaps, pick up a few seats.

So, no. I do not share your frustrations exactly.

:dem:

-Laelth

[JVS]

2. Thinking that a bill has to be passed no matter what is the least pragmatic position possible.

[iamjoy]

3. Right On...

I feel the same way. One concern is that if we pass this POS health care reform, we will lose Congress because it is utter dreck. If we don't pass it, we could lose Congress because we look weak and inept. Either way, if we lose Congress, the "lesson" Democrats will "learn" is that they were too liberal, and that's why we lost.

It is amazing that Dubya was able to get more done with less, isn't it? Too bad he was not getting good things done. I think it's because the Republicans all fell into line for their leader and Democrats fight our leader on everything. Meanwhile, for Dubya, the Democrats played along because they thought it would put them on the winning team. Too bad they didn't realize the Republicans would get all of the credit. I gotta hand it to the Republicans in Congress - they are clever enough to figure out that if the health care reform is a good thing, the Democrats will get all the credit and if it is a disaster, better not to have their names attached to it.

As for the human concern, I don't know if this health care reform will do more harm than good or not.

Conservatives label Obama a socialist/communist dictator - which is a joke. We wish Obama was half as effective at getting his Liberal agenda done as Conservatives seem to fear.

[Kdillard]

4. I would rather this bill not be passed and we lose a few seats but are

able to rebuild rather than have a bad bill passed that will have Democrats put into the wilderness instead of Republicans for generations. This bill is a huge risk and I am hoping for the best but am prepared for the worst.

[HardWorkingDem]

7. I'd agree, but...

I think what irritates a lot of us is that we know it won't be losing a "few" seats.

But I do believe, after this bill is passed, the next few days and week or two, will be the most important time of Obama's presidency regarding the future of Congress and his ability to get things done.

If the Dems and supporters of this bill rule the day with positives, then things might turn out good, but if the Conservatives show this bill to be a huge mess and the American people believe that, then it's not going to matter one way or another if it passes.

Possibly, we might get to see an amazing Whitehouse political machine in the aftermath.

[treestar]

5. The Democratic party is a bigger tent

In includes moderate conservatives. I am amazed by the number of people who think it was about as socialist as the Repukes and Rush are always claiming it is.

If 0 is a communist and 100 is a Nazi, the Dems cover 0 to 75 while the repukes cover 76 to 100. Of course the repukes can stick together better.

Bush had proximity to 911 and Repukes march in lockstep.

How many times do we have to repeat that?

[HardWorkingDem]

6. self delete