Krugman: Stuck in the Muddle

[ProSense]

Stuck in the Muddle

You won’t be surprised to hear that I am very much in sympathy with Drew Westen’s lament about Obama’s unwillingness or inability to change the narrative. I went back to look at my own reactions to the inaugural speech; I’m sorry to say that my misgivings at the time have proved all too justified.

The one thing I might say is that we shouldn’t really wonder what happened to Obama — he is who he always was. If you paid attention to what he actually said during the primary and the election, he was always a very conventional centrist. Progressives who flocked to his campaign basically deluded themselves, mistaking style for substance. I got huge flack for saying that at the time, but it was true, and events have borne it out.

Just to forestall the usual (or to try, anyway): no, we don’t know that Hillary would have been any better. And John Edwards turned out to be a worse person than one could have imagined. So I’m not trying to rerun the primary. I’m just pointing out that a lot of people were remarkably blind to the warning signs.

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It's not Obama, it's spin

[polichick]

1. To be fair, Campaigning Obama is very different from Governing Obama - even now.

[mistertrickster]

19. I totally agree. Krugman seems to be ignoring strong positions that Obama

caved on and seemed to repudiate . . . like The Union card-check Act or letting Bush tax cuts expire or raising taxes on Capital gains or only sign a health care bill WITH a public option etc. etc.

Krugman can't blame progressives for thinking that Obama wasn't lying about those important policies.

[ProSense]

2. No other comments? n/t

[Zenlitened]

6. Maybe folks read Krugman's fourth and final paragraph in this posting...

...and are just kind of contemplating right now, rather than commenting?

I had hoped that Obama would rise to the occasion, but he keeps not doing it. And no, I have no idea what progressives do in the near term.

It seems that a lot of people across America, not just progressives, are doing some soul-searching these days, regarding just that: Who will rise to the occasion?

No, that doesn't mean they're giving republicans another look, nor a third party, necessarily.

But if it's true what Krugman says (and it's an argument made often here on DU), that people were "blind to the warning signs" or mistakenly projected their own hopes and desires onto Mr. Obama's candidacy...

Well, if that's true, I imagine they might be hardening their hearts a bit right now, and vowing not to be taken in again.

Which doesn't sound like a fertile place for cultivating support in 2012.

[ProSense]

9. Maybe

read the whole thing.

Krugman's entire premise is that Obama was never progressive and anyone who believed otherwise "basically deluded themselves."

[Zenlitened]

10. Did you mean this reply to someone else?

Because it makes no sense as a reply to me.

[Zenlitened]

11. No other comment? - n/t

[Zenlitened]

13. Well, I guess I'll interpret your silence as an apology. Thanks. - n/t

[ProSense]

15. No,

the response was clearly to your comment so no need for grandstanding.

[Zenlitened]

20. How does "read the whole post" make sense when my SUBJECT LINE itself...

...referred to "the fourth and final paragraph" of Klugman's blog entry?

It makes no sense at all.

It reads as an insult, if anything.

Now you attempt, lamely, to add further insult with the "grandstanding" jibe.

...the response was clearly to your comment so no need for grandstanding.

Epic flail.

And that's exactly my worry: that desperate, increasingly angry flailing, is all that remains for far too many of Pres. Obama's supporters.

For far too many others, what remains is alienation and grief.

Is this any way mobilize support for a candidate? Is it?

[ProSense]

21. Please

How does "read the whole post" make sense when my SUBJECT LINE itself...

...referred to "the fourth and final paragraph" of Klugman's blog entry?

It makes no sense at all.

It reads as an insult, if anything.

It reads as a simple comment and point.

Now you attempt, lamely, to add further insult with the "grandstanding" jibe.

How many comments did you post before demanding an "apology"?

Epic flail.

And that's exactly my worry: that desperate, increasingly angry flailing, is all that remains for far too many of Pres. Obama's supporters.

For far too many others, what remains is alienation and grief.

Is this any way mobilize support for a candidate? Is it?

Please, spare me the self-pitying. I am not responsible for your impression of Obama prior to or after the election. That's entirely on you.

[Zenlitened]

22. You really don't seem to be understanding what I've written.

I see only projection coming from your statements... and flailing.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see your posts as productive for Pres. Obama in any way.

And that, like it or not, is entirely on you.

[ProSense]

23. What

"I'm sorry, but I just don't see your posts as productive for Pres. Obama in any way.

And that, like it or not, is entirely on you."

...are you apologizing for?

Did I indicate somewhere that my opinions are not "entirely" on me?

[Zenlitened]

25. It's merely a conversational politiness, used to preface a statement....

...that might otherwise be interpreted as overtly hostile.

As for your opinions, I don't see your opinion in the OP at all.

All I see is a contextually-incomplete portion of Krugman's opinion.

[ProSense]

26. Hmmm?

"As for your opinions, I don't see your opinion in the OP at all."

Do you see my opinion here?

Oh, and there is something in the OP besides Krugman's commentary. Look again.

[Zenlitened]

27. Why don't you spell it out for me, please?

edit typo

Edited again to add: Nevermind.

I thought that link in the OP was part of your sigline, so it didn't occur to me to click on it.

I've done so now.

And all I'll say is... good luck with all that. "Utter make-believe," indeed.

:wow:

[Jakes Progress]

8. What comments? Krugman is right. We agree.

[killbotfactory]

3. I wonder if the worst financial disaster in recent memory might have done something...

You know, the one that happened after the primary and right before the election? I wonder if that effected Obama's agenda tiny bit...

No, no, no... that couldn't be it.

[ProSense]

5. I wonder

if Krugman believes that "progressives who flocked to" Hillary or Edwards' campaign "basically deluded themselves"?

[freesqueeze]

4. I kept the faith until....

he allowed himself to be extorted over the debt limit.

Why wasn't he out there pointing this out when they started their game, using that term that best describes what he allowed to happen, EXTORTION? I'm sure he'll be a better option than anyone the GOPeople put out there but the passion balloon is completely deflated after seeing how he allowed himself to be run over by a bunch of dull witted bullies.

Please, Mr. President, grow a pair and turn this thing around!

[Jakes Progress]

7. Agree. Obama never wanted progressive govenrment.

Little solace to the progressives and liberals who bandwagoned for him in the primary. But what was trashed on DU as primary lies has turned out to be true.

[paulk]

12. +1

[polichick]

14. Yes, I think we can say that with certainty now.

[ProSense]

17. Hmmm?

"But what was trashed on DU as primary lies has turned out to be true."

What turned out to be true? People's opinions that they still have despite the evidence?

It's true that Hillary was DLC. It's true that Edwards was a fake. In the GE, it was clear that McCain went over to the dark side!

Who did you support?

[Enrique]

16. not "were" blind

people are still insisting that Obama is a progressive, and get terribly angry if you claim he is a centrist.

[catrose]

18. I couldn't get through his 2nd book for that reason

It was all about Democrats being just as bad as Rs (as if!) and about coming together in a bipartisan spirit. And that's what he keeps trying to do. I can see that as a community organizer--which I always thought was a good thing to be--you could start from the point of "We all want a better community, but maybe we disagree about how to get there." He's never realized or accepted that the Rs don't want a better community/country. They want 2 things: Obama gone, and the money they haven't stolen yet.

[flamingdem]

30. I think he gets it, even if somewhat more abstractly that we do

But he is charged with running the country, he can't afford to be a name caller, imo.

The forces behind the right wing are enormous and without ethical reigns. That is a
very tretcherous situation, imo.

[Logical]

24. I know now I fell for the act. Feel stupid about it. When people said I was.....

drinking the koolaid I denied it but I was.

He is still better than any GOP idiot but he is not the guy I campaigned for.

[flamingdem]

28. Krugman seems overly concerned with proving himself right

I can see him looking in the mirror and yelling "I AM A GENIUS, OBAMA IS CRAP, I KNEW IT FROM THE START"

[paulk]

31. pure charactor assassination

:eyes:

the last resort -
when all else fails?

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[vaberella]

29. Krugman has always been a waste of air for me.

For or against Obama.

[boppers]

33. Poor Krugman.

Apparently he, and many others, somehow thought Obama was to the left of Castro.

Now "they are disappoint".

:shrug:

"he is who he always was. If you paid attention to what he actually said during the primary and the election, he was always a very conventional centrist"

[Number23]

34. I just got into the most pointless discussion here

because I dared to interpret the piece by Weston as him being mostly critical of Obama's unwillingness/inability to shape the narrative. I felt that the author deemed Obama's failure at messaging as one of his biggest failings. And that he'd felt that the president had some good things but had not clearly articulated them to the American public and should have been much more forthright on who is to blame for the mess we find ourselves in (Wall St) and articulating solutions.

Well, I guess Krugman made the same mistake. Thankfully, we've got the good folks at DU to set us both straight. :eyes:

P.S. This Krugman piece sucks. Progressives who flocked to his campaign basically deluded themselves, mistaking style for substance. Second time this smiley seems pretty applicable :eyes: