They still keep doing it. What is the most important Jobs Message for the WH? Free Trade!

[Armstead]

Free Fucking Trade.

After all that has happened, both economically and politically? That's what we need to get the economy moving again? Pass these new trade agreements as a first step, among the highest priorities.

With all that can and should be done, and what could be said about solutions, and the WH Message Machine has decided to pimp this crap?


:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Let's not call out the fallacies of the GOP and its right-wing supply side agenda. Instead let's get some "bipartisan" programs like Free Trade that both Democrats and Republicans support?????!!!!! WTF?

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Some people wonder why some people have "Obama Derangement Syndrome"? This kind of absolute refusal to step off the Conservative Corporatist DLC Agenda is the carrier of the virus.



:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[dgibby]

1. At a one of his Town Hall meetings (Md, I think),

Obama remarked that he loved free trade. Made me want to :puke:

[PurityOfEssence]

17. "That giant sucking sound..."

Perot, loon that he is, was so very prescient in this statement against NAFTA: the sucking sound is from our jobs being sucked out of the country.

[Vincardog]

2. Fuck Free Trade and every idiot supporting it

[Armstead]

6. I think it coulds be put a bit more subtly, but I sure wish Dems would stop selling that snake oil

Its a complicated issue, and not everyone who buys it is an idiot -- They were just manipulated by very sophisticated con artists.

[polichick]

9. Question: Has Pres. Obama been manipulated or is he a "sophisticated con artist?"

[Armstead]

10. Honest Answer is both

I think he has been manipulated to become a sophisticated con man.

These agreements and issues are very complicated, and it is possible to manipulate them to be sold as good for everyone. I think Obama was sold on it as a good thing by the con-men, and become a con man by extension.

But I also think he is cynical enough to believe that it is a "good sell" to the low-information "swing voters."

[polichick]

13. Makes sense, scary as that is.

[msongs]

3. our president got his cuts cuts cuts cuts so now its off to export jobs export jobs again nt

[COLGATE4]

4. Yogi Berra had it right. "Deja vu all over again"

[Armstead]

5. "We must pass Nafta because it will bring jobs to the US and pull Mexico out of poverty"

The mantra of Clinton and the DLC in the 90's.

Many years later, it has goosed the exodus of US jobs, and Mexico is worse off, not better off.

[KoKo]

7. Have you noticed....he really doesn't say what's in the bills that will provide jobs.

I guess it's up to us to Google the Trade Agreements and parse out the language ourselves.

If he's so convinced they will increase US jobs then why doesn't he ever go into detail when he mentions Fre Trade...Free Trade...Free Trade.

I'm starting to worry that he has a "list" of "Neo-Lib To Do's" that he's scrolling through and even he doesn't even know what the consequences are.

[Armstead]

11. I tend to agree with you on that

The "enlightened neo-lib" agenda can be made to sound like wonder Pink Fluffy Bunnies for everyone. It's only when you look at the devils in all the details and connect dots that the real purpose and effect becomes clear.

[polichick]

8. Let's face it, the agenda of this WH isn't anything like the agenda of most Americans...

Both parties serve corporations and, as they stand, neither party will lead to "change we can believe in."

[Armstead]

12. I agree, whether intentionally or not, that is the effect

I will give Obama enough credit that he thinks he is "doing the right thing." Unfortunately that translates into the right-wing (neo-liberal) corporate thing.

[PurityOfEssence]

19. I'm not so charitable about that.

I think he thinks he's "doing the right thing" TO GET RE-ELECTED, but I don't know if he really buys the concept that free trade is what we need right now. I'm cynical enough about him that I tend to believe that holding onto power and being loved by the greatest number and broadest range of people are his only real goals.

Obviously, he sees corporate hegemony as either necessary, good or at least inescapable, but where he truly sorts out on the subject is well open to question. That's all academic musing, though; the results are the same.

The ONLY real way to get out of situations like this is with a direct hiring of people by the government, like Roosevelt did. The problem is unemployment, and it necessitates temporary government intervention. He simply can't do that, though; he's proud to say that 90% of the stimulus went through private enterprise. Does he really believe this, or is he trying so hard to prove he's not a lefty to those who will never change their minds? Whatever. He has to prove he's not a lefty for his own personal gains, just as he had to be a hawk on Afghanistan to dispel the traditional charge of Democrats being "weak".

I'm so tired of the whole thing. Now we're stuck, as he fights harder and harder to drag the country to the right in order to call off the dogs, and the dogs just taste the blood and drag us even farther the same way. Meanwhile, his acolytes rail incoherences about his "true" beliefs and splutter on like lunatics about "chess" and all that idiocy; it's a religion. It's the cult of the personality. It's a giant derivative of a Presidency, all based on what we "know" he's going to do someday, and with future projections treated as hard fact. It's like the Peace Prize: he deserves it because we "know" he's going to do something really peaceful someday. It's like Libya: we have to intervene because he tells us Qaddafi's going to kill a bunch of people someday. We're repeatedly asked to go all-in with three to a flush when we're looking at potential full houses. That's why it's religion: what you can see and touch doesn't matter; the only thing that matters is that rosy hope-filled shining city on the hill, to riff off of his hero's famous blathering.

No, I am not so sure of this at all. My epiphany came in fall of '06 when he deliberately went out of his way to court fundamentalists, and a year later, I was incensed by the display in South Carolina with the "40 Days of Faith and Family" crusade. The only thing that matters is what happens to the country and world from his actions, and the net result is not good: no leadership on Global Warming, reckless and illegal wars and so on.

To so very many of his most starry-eyed stalwarts, we OWE him everything, regardless of the various outcomes of his actions and inactions. I don't get this. He's done rather well in life; I don't see what herculean tasks of moral beauty he's performed; he was a lackluster legislator with a long record of corporatism.

I don't get the hero-worship, but I see it as an unmistakable dynamic. Yet, whatever he does to cling to power, any of us who call him out for the mistakes are vilified as fiendish destroyers of all that's good and true. I don't see this going all that well for us whether he's re-elected or not, and I resent the whole untouchable virtue aspect of it as our lives and futures get marginalized to appease the greed heads in this country for whom "enough" is an alien concept.

[Armstead]

21. I basically agree with you, but I am trying to be open minded about his motives

It's hard though when, as you say, you look at the accumulated results.

[OwnedByFerrets]

14. F F T

FUCK FREE TRADE

[MissDeeds]

15. The hits just keep on coming

with Obama. Enough of this - primary his ass.

K&R

[woo me with science]

24. +1

Seriously. Enough already.

[Cali_Democrat]

16. Obama seems so detached from reality

Does he really think "free" trade is the answer to the jobs crisis?

WTF is he thinking?

[ClarkUSA]

23. That's a false statement. He never said "free" trade as I told you yesterday.

[ProSense]

18. Here's

Sherrod Brown's statement, offering perspective, on the trade deals.

[Armstead]

20. Do you ever consider context in the links you post?

Brown is supporting TAA as damage control. Without putting words in his mouth, I would describe his actual position as "Since this free trade garbage is going to get rammed through anyway, by the GOP and WH and corporate neo-liberal ConservaDems let's at least do somnething to reduce the damage they are going to inflict on America's workforce."

Brown is a clear progressive who has been trying to stop this Free Trade con job for years. He is also a pragmatist who is doing his best to work within the system to at least address the bad effects. You might look at things he has said and wrote about it for what he really thinks this free-trade nonsense.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ClarkUSA]

25. Your OP is very misleading. President Obama never said "free" trade once. Here is what he said -->

"It’s time Congress finally passed a set of trade deals that would help displaced workers looking for new jobs, and that would allow our businesses to sell more products in countries in Asia and South America – products stamped with three words: Made in America."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=738010&mesg_id=738166

HOW DARE HE!!! Gee, what nerve! Made in America??? WHAT A TRAITOR TO LIBERAL VALUES!! How could anyone want him to promote American manufacturing exports!!!!!!!

I'm OUTRAGED!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :sarcasm:

[Armstead]

26. I see you did your job

I'm about to enjoy this sunny weather at a street fair, and don't have time for a useless back and forth with you.

But let me make a suggestion. Look up what progressives, organized labor and many mainstream Democrats and uncorrupted economists say about these deals and the system they have grown out of.

Obama's message staff knows full well not to use a red flag like "free trade" but it's the same crap with a shortened name.

But don't take my word for it -- which I know you won't. Try a little independent research and, more important, independent thinking.

[ClarkUSA]

28. I see you haven't admitted your OP's distorted claim is completely false.

No surprise there.

[Armstead]

29. Whatevewr, it's a nice day outside. I suggest you go out and enjoy it.

Buh Bye.

[ClarkUSA]

30. I suggest you stop distorting what Pres. Obama says and acknowledge the facts in the future.

I won't hold my breath, though.

[AtomicKitten]

27. The exploitation of tiny untruths to skew the truth is epidemic here.

Thanks for posting the exact quote.

:hi:

[ClarkUSA]

31. You're right. It's a behavior pattern which begs the question as to, "Why"? Hmmm....

Hi, babe. How ya doin'? :hi:

[AtomicKitten]

32. Hey.

It's 59-degrees here so I'm not complaining. :)