So lets assume Obama get primaried and this person wins the WH

[dennis4868]

and lets also assume the repubs have enough to fillubuster in the senate. THEN WHAT?

Repubs will block any legislation that helps the country so that they can get the WH in 2016. Then alot of legislation will have to be watered down in order to defeat a fillubuster and then the PL and other liberals will bash the new president for not being libreal enough

What difference does it make who is the dem president if the senate is NOT fillubuster proof. We will get the same results over and over.

Many DUers who hate Obama won't admit this but that's the way it will be. No president is a king and can pass legislation without congressional approval. And don't tell me that another liberal dem will get the repubs/tea party to lay their arms down and will simply go along with a 100% pure progressive agends or not be willing to take the country off a cliff unless they get their way.

[pnwmom]

1. You're right. The House and the Senate are the key. n/t

[Cronus Protagonist]

2. Hopefully, we can get George W Bush back to train our guy

He had NO PROBLEM with lack of a super majority.

[CakeGrrl]

3. Calling for GWB to help out? Bullshit.

Anyone who does that, IMO, doesn't have the right to refer to the President as "our guy".

[RC]

7. You don't recognize sarcasm?

I did.

[CakeGrrl]

13. I see increasingly negative comparisons of this POTUS to GWB

When you have Professional Left bloggers (Glenn Greenwald) throwing out opinions that this President has subverted the Democratic Party better than GWB ever could, when you have these laments that people wished this President could be more like GWB in this way, I tend to have a low tolerance for the throwaway remarks, especially when they're coming from posters who have a well-established pattern of lack of confidence in/respect for this Dem President.

[MouseFitzgerald]

39. Glenn is right

Sorry you are having trouble dealing with reality.

[Cronus Protagonist]

45. "well established pattern" - what an ugly comment

Or a professional smear, perhaps?

I was FOR Obama before I was against him. And that's not a "pattern", its the result of well reasoned research and reflects my very nuanced opinion, not the one you tar me with.

And if George is looking good against Obama, even tongue-in-cheek, Obama had better get his head out of his ass and quit acting like a parody of his campaign image.

BTW, his image won't be altered positively by bashing those who lose confidence in him based on his record of irresponsible capitulation. Only better actions on his part could alter that.

[Little Star]

19. It was pretty hard to miss the sarcasm unless you didn't want to see it.

[Cronus Protagonist]

27. the "our guy" to whom I was referring was the successful challenger to Obama

By election time, the whole country will be gasping for change. Real change, not just spare change.

[CakeGrrl]

40. Ah, had me going there. Good luck with "your guy", then!

[Logical]

32. Explain why Obama did not go after Cheaney!!! I will be waiting.

[stevenleser]

62. Administrations do not go after previous administrations. Unwritten rule that they all follow

If congress does not go after the POTUS or VPOTUS during their administrations, they will not be prosecuted by the next one.

[villager]

4. +1

n/t

[dennis4868]

5. do you not understand what's going on here?

The dems while Bush was president were not COMPLETELY OBSTRUCTING. The repubs are now! Dems wanted and in many occassions worked with Bush to egt things done. Repubs on the other hand are doign everything they can to destroy Obama and not allow any legislation to pass that has even a 1% chance of improving the country. The repubs have set a fillubustering record the past 2 years. This is why Bush was able to egt things through congress the way he wanted. All of this should be obvious to DUers but I guess it's not.

[jwhitesj]

12. It's obvious to me

I still think Obama doesn't seem to be a good negotiator or a good salesman though.

[dennis4868]

16. Usually when you...

negotiate with hostage takers you don't get everything you want; but on top of that look at all these accomplishments in the face of a 24/7 fillubuster threat www.whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com these are real changes and I know for a fact it has saved lives (my neighbors baby did not have health insurance and had a serious condition. One of the first things Obama did as Prez was expand health coverage for children over the objections of course of the repubs. Because of this expansion my neighbor's baby has insurance and is doing great (this was an act of congress and Obama before the affordable care act was enacted into law). These are real accomplishments in the face of the most obstructionist oppossing party this country has ever seen. It's not to be shrugged off as "well it's not a big deal" (many irrational DUers say this).

[jwhitesj]

20. I agree

Obama has done a lot of very good things. I'm not sure about all the political decisions behind agreeing to extend the Bush tax cuts but it seems that was something that should never have been negotiated. In this debt crisis, he had the position of strength with the 14th ammendment and yet allowed the Tea Party minority to push their agenda in the debate. I agree with Bill Maher when he says Obama is trying to hard to appease the center. It makes him look like he is weak when most Americans, especially those that are in the center, value strength.

[polmaven]

44. Yeah...

he should have just thrown millions of unemployed people out on the street without any income at all. Now THAT would have helped the economy!!

[Tx4obama]

60. Regarding this part of your comment ...

You said: "I'm not sure about all the political decisions behind agreeing to extend the Bush tax cuts but it seems that was something that should never have been negotiated."

The blame falls on the GOP.
It was the Republicans that forced Obama to extend the Bush tax-cuts - that was the only way that the Republicans would agree to the Unemployment Benefits Extension.

Obama did NOT want to extend the Bush tax-cuts and he did not want to negotiate the issue, but he also did not want the Unemployment Benefits Extension that the GOP was holding HOSTAGE to die in Congress.

Things are never as black and white as they may seem to be on the surface.

[treestar]

17. That is false

Bush did not get all he wanted.

And you fail to account for the fact Republicans want the government to do nothing. It is easier to do nothing than to get something passed. The system is designed to allow obstruction. So those who want nothing done benefit from that.

This falsehood is inexcusable.

[polmaven]

42. He had LESS problem,

because Democrats have more integrity than to block everything that just may be good for the country for the simple reason of making the president look bad.

[EffieBlack]

43. He had no problem because the Republicans ALWAYS stuck together and the Dems did not use their

leverage. This had nothing to do with anything Bush did or didn't do. It was all about the House and Senate.

[Middle finga]

50. Pro-corporate, pro-military industrial complex

and pro rich policies are a hell of a lot easier to pass than legislation that benefit the poor and middle class. When you have 100% of the GOP and over half of the Dem party that's pro corporation and pro military, it's quite easy for a president on the right to get his policies passed. Any liberal president will catch hell in the environment we have.

[Hippo_Tron]

55. That's why social security is privatizd and all, right?

[CakeGrrl]

6. Some people haven't thought past the idea of the primary challenge.

Or maybe they think their SuperCandidate will have the powers to leap tall obstructionist Teabaggers with a single bound, even if their party holds the majority in the House.

[dennis4868]

8. right...

there are so many narrow minded thinkers in the dem party...they don't get it!

[RC]

10. Some of us do. We want someone that at least acts like a Democrat,

and better yet, a Liberal. Someone that will not continue bu$h's administration war policies and will not stack his cabinet with retread republicans

[CakeGrrl]

15. Pretty words. How do you think those will translate into meaningful action

given the makeup of Congress today?

Who doesn't want that around here? I think a lot of people are confusing those of us who understand the reality of dealing with the GOP in their current numbers and extreme ideologies with people who WANT progress to be slowed. That's an unfortunate mischaracterization.

[Little Star]

9. Could you please point us to the Many DUers who hate Obama?

As I read around DU I see plenty of people unhappy with the way he is doing/not doing things. I also see many who want to hold his feet to the fire and plenty who think he should have a primary challenger in 2012. I have not seen one post where I ever considered the poster to hate our president. I wish people would stop exaggerating the reality.

But to your actual point of the OP, I agree, we need to work on our numbers in the congress or we are in deep doo.

[Kelvin Mace]

11. It would seem that simple criticism is enough

to get you labeled a "hater" in some people's opinion. That and not clapping loud enough.

Me, I just write historical fiction:

http://torchwood-us.com/2011/08/05/the-obama-boehner-budget-deal-as-a-historical-novel/

[treestar]

14. Well this undefined person is going to stand up for us!

He/she will stand strong! He/she is not going to cave!@!! No! Not ever!!!!! He/she will be strong and not weak! Bold and not timid!!!1111111 When the Senators realize this, they will cave. They will pass bills as written by the President. The President need only call and threaten their committee chairmanships, which this brave strong President will do! He/she will twist arms! Senators will wear slings and rue the day they opposed the brave strong President!!!!111

:rofl:

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fire1]

21. Duers who hate Obama are teabaggers. n/t

[housewolf]

41. Right... and the whole of the electorate is made up of only Obama-lovers adn Teabaggers

Get real.

There are many more shades of colors than black and white and there are many more shades of opinions than Obama-lovers and Obama-haters.

Or maybe I missed the intentional sarcasm you intended?

[boxman15]

22. Congress is where things get done.

Or fail to get done, as is the case now. We really need to focus on regaining the House and getting a filibuster proof majority, or at least a larger one, in the Senate. It doesn't matter if it's Obama, Sanders, Kucinich, Pelosi, FDR, JFK, LBJ, or whoever in the White House if no legislation is leaving the halls of Congress due to Republican obstructionism. If you have a divided government like we do now, or only very small majorities including ConservaDems, expect legislation that is center-left at the most, more likely center-right.

I'll agree that Obama needs to do a better job of communicating with the American people and shifting public discourse to the left, like how St. Reagan the Great shifted the debates to the right. (I won't agree he's some stealth Republican, he's the most liberal president we've had in decades.) But, with these sociopaths that dominate the GOP now, it wouldn't change much at all. They'd still be obstructing, they'd still be putting party ahead of country. So, instead of whining about President Obama, why don't those on the left who are upset over Washington focus their efforts on getting liberals to Congress? It's going to be tough to do, but primarying Obama and dividing the party will make it virtually impossible.

[Fire1]

23. You have to know/understand how government works to

realize this and alot of people obviously do not. For those who DO know how government works and still bash the president they are here for one reason only and that is to recruit and make sure republicans get back in office in 2012. It's not rocket science.

[Logical]

24. Maybe this person will actually FIGHT for stuff and call them out when they need called out! Get it?

[DevonRex]

26. Hahaha!!! Fisticuffs? Judo? Karate chops?????

Or

[Logical]

30. Wow, childish icons. You are a true genius!

[dionysus]

64. if only obama would shake his fist and say "look here buster, you're doing things MY way", the tea

baggers in the house ould just wither into dust, and we'd all be saved!11!!

but no. that obama is the debbil.


:hi:

[dennis4868]

28. Okay, then what?

he will still face a fillubuster in the senate (and if the House stays the same the reoubs there wont give a shit if he calls them out). SO THEN WHAT? You see, that's the problem. People say they want Obama to get angrier, to fight harder, BUT THEN WHAT? Nothing will change until we change the congres...get it?

[Logical]

29. Bullshit......

We have NO IDEA if the GOP would not have extended unemployment.

We have NO IDEA if the GOP would not have extended the debt limit.

We know the next Dem might not praise Boehner and talk about his days as a kid sweeping the floor of his dads store.

The next Dem president might actually not defend Rumsfeld in court and may actually dig into the torture rumors.

The next Dem president might find out if wall street leaders broke the law.

Get it now???

Obama was living in his dream world of cooperation long after a normal Dem would have realized they were playing him for a sucker.

[dennis4868]

33. Just about everything you said in your last post...

is utter BS...I only wish I had the time to respond to it...

[Logical]

34. LOL......sure it was. Nice try. The truth hurts!

[dennis4868]

38. no, lies hurt...

i can give facts to show that you are wrong but I have been told that facts don't mean anything to the irrational Obama haters...goodnight!

[Logical]

46. I will be waiting! n-t

[DevonRex]

35. Heh. Nobody has answered your question.

Just what real power does the Pres have to force members of Congress to do what he wants them to do?

[COLGATE4]

58. It seems that the only argument people who disagree with those

of us who fault the President's performance is to imply that, since he doesn't have "real power to force Members of Congress to do what he wants them to do", he is essentially irrelevant. Is that what you're trying to say?

[Tx4obama]

61. Huh?

You can't be serious.

The GOP will obstruct 'any' democratic president, and we DO have an idea what the republicans would do if someone other than Obama was in the Oval Office by looking at what is going on 'now'

Let's take your first two examples.

1) The GOP said they would NOT vote for the Unemployment Benefit Extension and they held them HOSTAGE until they forced Obama to extend the Bush tax-cuts.

2) In 2011, the GOP voted in the House on a clean debt ceiling bill, they voted NO. The bill did not pass.

As long as a Democrat is in the White House, the GOP will continue their bullshit.

The only solution is to take back the House and get a 60 democratic filibuster-proof super majority in the Senate.

[abelenkpe]

25. We don't have the time or money for a primary challenger

to the president. We need to focus on congress and getting more liberal/progressive minded people elected.

[boston bean]

31. I do. and i think it would help try to get a liberal/progressive in the presidency. nt

[abelenkpe]

36. I agree with your posts probably 99 percent of the time

but given the economic climate and the very real chance things are about to get much much worse I don't think we can afford it. I would love love love to have a more progressive president. I wanted a new FDR. Got Hoover instead. :(

Cannot believe the pres said it isn't Government's place to create jobs. Yeah, normally it isn't but during a Crisis? Damn straight it is. Sigh....

[quakerboy]

37. Then at least ending the new deal does not happen my name

And we get to have a president out in front, accomplishing exactly what this one has done, with the added benefit of NOT BLAMING ME for all the ills, but instead pointing the finger right where it belongs, at the republican obstructionists.

[SwampG8r]

47. fail for use of "PL" and "duers who hate"

[Phx_Dem]

48. Or, we can assume monkeys will fly out of your butt any minute.

Mine is probably the more realistic assumption.

[Vattel]

49. There's a lot of things a President can do without Congress.

As CIC, the President can influence military policy and strategy, impacting how many innocent bystanders die in war; the President can decide whether to usurp Congress's war powers, what sort of border enforcement and deportation policies are in effect, the priorities of the DOJ, whether the government will engage in warrantless spying on Americans, and so on. A true progressive in the WH would be a huge benefit even if they weren't more effective than Obama in passing legislation.

[JVS]

57. True. Obama refuses to do a lot of the things that are totally under his own control, so the ...

argument that congress is holding him back is only true with regards to a subset of the policies that are pissing off the left.

[SkyDaddy7]

51. You are being RATIONAL & taking into account REALITY!

This is NO NO on DU!!

[Proud Liberal Dem]

52. Well, if he/she yells and bangs his hand on the "bully pulpit" enough

and goes all "LBJ" or "FDR" on the Republicans, they'll just back right down and support his/her progressive agenda, right?!

:eyes:

[COLGATE4]

59. Well, we'll never know, will we?

[Fearless]

53. Why leave Obama and get Congress if bills will only be vetoed?

Same turd from the other side. Kick em all out.

[Arkana]

54. I'd like to see what happens the first time a "true progressive"

needs Republican or Blue Dog votes to pass a budget bill.

Guess what: EVERY PIECE OF PROGRESSIVE LEGISLATION IN THE LAST 100 YEARS HAS COME AS A RESULT OF COMPROMISE.

[JVS]

56. One would thing that the abuses of power allowed by the Patriot Act and numerous other bad...

practices introduced under the Bush administration and continued by this administration would be enough to encourage cooperation from the other side.

[Dawgs]

63. Interesting that you admit Obama would be no better than anyone else. n/t