Can we at least lay to rest the fiction that good Democrats had to support the President on this?

[Tom Rinaldo]

I'm not talking about good Democrats at Democratic Underground, I'm talking about Democrats period. Any Democrat now serving in the U.S. House of Representatives is in a pretty elite group of Democrats. No one can dismiss them as just bored leftist bloggers with nothing better to do than stir up trouble.

So when half of the Democrats in the House oppose this President on the debt ceiling deal, is it safe to say that they represent more than just "fringe leftists"? I understand that if the President really needed a few more more votes to pass the deal some of those no Democratic votes would have flipped to yes, politics work that way, but even so.

There is no consensus inside the Democratic Party, even at the highest levels, behind the agreements that President Obama has been willing, and in some cases interested in making with Republicans on how the burden should be shared for reigning in our growing deficit, or even how much of that reigning in is necessary over the next decade.

The last time I remember this high a degree of internal dissent among Democrats over crucial policies pursued by a Democratic President was in the mid 60's, when LBJ sat in the oval office, when the Viet Nam War was swallowing a generation of our young men alive.

[Robb]

1. It's a good argument.

Although it does require us to take the House Democrats as seriously as the GOP takes the House Republicans. I don't personally have a problem with that, but some might.

I'd add it's probably the most visible internal dissent in a generation. Earlier Congresses perhaps were better at disagreeing in private, or thought it more worthwhile.

[Bluenorthwest]

2. Well, apparently half the House Democrats vote with the GOP

and the other half represent the people. Simple.

[babylonsister]

3. I'll give you a rec'd. This was a sucky deal, but I do take into

consideration the forces this admin had to contend with, those forces being batshit crazy and not at all concerned about the future of this country.

[Tom Rinaldo]

4. I'll gladly grant you that. Bat shit crazy terrorists indeed. n/t