The Bush Tax Cuts will expire under this deal that is being negotiated

[Tony_FLADEM]

I just heard that on MSNBC.

[vi5]

1. No they won't.

They will not expire. There is no way, under any possible circumstances that those will expire.

Yes, they are "scheduled" to expire if nothing is done. But there is no way anyone is going to let that happen. The Republicans will never let that happen, and even if there is some small segment of Democrats who will fight for it to actually happen, everyone in any position of leadership in the Democratic party, including and especially Obama will allow the Republicans to put them in the middle of another hostage situation.

Bet on it.

[AlinPA]

4. The republicans will control the Senate 2013. So much for the Bush tax cuts expiring.

[phleshdef]

6. They would still expire under those circumstances.

If theres a new majority in the Senate, they won't take power in time to stop the expiration. They would have to pass a whole new tax cut bill and I don't think that could even take effect until 2014.

[AlinPA]

8. They still have control with the filibuster and can stop any bill.

[phleshdef]

14. Thats irrelevant. If no one puts forward a bill to extend them, they expire.

[bornskeptic]

16. Are you confused? Extending the tax cuts would reuire passage of a bill.

They would need 60 votes for that. They won't have 60 votes or the White House, and may not control the House either.

[AlinPA]

21. OK, but bet on them doing a hostage taking situation again to re-instate the cuts.

[alcibiades_mystery]

27. Well, one could say that about anything

Your scenario provides no way to get a winning deal, simply because you will just say "They'll just take the win away." Well, OK, but then why bother? It's as if you like and want to lose, so you set up mental scenarios whereby anything at all is a loss.

[AlinPA]

37. I don't like it and I don't want it, but we are going backwards.

[alcibiades_mystery]

39. We went backwards when the people of the country turned over Congress to the Tea Party lunatics

What we are doing now is dealing with the direction in which the people in a fair and democratic way decided the country should go in.

[AlinPA]

41. The frustration is trying to deal with a party led and controlled by those lunatics.

[phleshdef]

33. It gets harder to take hostages once you've shot all of them.

[AlinPA]

36. That is a very good point.

[polmaven]

35. There will be no bill to filibuster.

The cuts are scheduled to sunset under the legislation passed in December 2010.

[karynnj]

43. Except it takes a bill for them NOT to expire

and I hope we have 41 Senators willing to filibuster.

[tigereye]

9. not if we work hard, they won't

that would be disastrous, don't you think? :shrug:

[AlinPA]

11. Yes. We need to work harder than we have in the last several elections because they have

fewer seats at risk than we do and it will be hard for us to hold seats in ND and MT.

[boston bean]

2. They were expiring last time too? Is it just for those making over $250K?

or are we all tied to it again?

if not, dream the fuck on that they will expire.

[Autumn]

3. Sure they will

like they expired last time when they were supposed to. So many hostages to hold for negotiation. And that's what fucking republicans do.

[ProSense]

5. This is what's called

horrible news!

[boston bean]

7. You think Obama will Veto the bill that ends up extending them?

I think I just might bookmark this thread, just for the laughs.

They will just becoming off an election where they would have to be making pledges on tax hikes.

if the middle class tax hikes are set to expire, you think that's a good Democratic Election Strategy?

Some people really do live in a dream world.

[ProSense]

10. So

now the bad news relies on speculation that Republicans will win the Senate and pass legislation over Democratic opposition? (44 Democrats stopped Social Security privatization under a Republican President and Congress)

Horrible news!

[boston bean]

13. You think it's a good idea to let the taxes for middle class expire?

some people are out of their friggin minds.

The Democrats will not run a campaign on that and in fact, it will have to re-legislated to extend them for the middle class and end them for the rich.

What happened last time, and we had the majority in both houses.

Please, learn your history and also, learn from it.

[ProSense]

24. Wait

"You think it's a good idea to let the taxes for middle class expire?"

..did you think it was a good idea in December 2010?

I didn't. If it happens in 2012, so be it. The more important thing at that point is allowing the tax cuts for the top 2 percent to expire.

[TheKentuckian]

40. Absolutely it is a good idea unless you have an offset somewhere besides eating ourselves

to keep them.

We've dug a 12 year hole with all of these cuts, not just the ones for the top 2%. That debt has to be serviced and there is no revenue stream for it so it comes from elsewhere in the budget or more must be borrowed which creates more interest payments while never touching the principle which also comes from elsewhere because there is again no revenue stream. Same deal with ending the wars, one we actually have to do it and shut down to stop the bleeding and two, it is all borrowed money so it doesn't start to fill in the hole.

We need new revenue to pay for the party the MIC and the rich had beyond going back to Clinton level taxes on the top 2% or even for everyone. Eventually, especially with no or anemic growth the service on the debt will out pace the tax base and that is including the payroll tax. We cannot do this, it was and remains shrink the pig and drown it in the bathtub economics.

Income must at least equal spending plus debt service over long periods of time and we have been in the hole for most of four decades and deficits should be investment heavy so they pay dividends back into the economy which negates or at least reduces encumbrance over time. Our deficits have virtually no return on investment, probably actually are a net negative. These tax cuts do nothing to improve our ability to grow the economy or increase efficiency so that less resources are required to get the same or better output.

So, if you want the tax cuts then you better both find a way to offset the revenue and remember that the additional revenue doesn't give any actual maneuver room to do anything new.

[alcibiades_mystery]

28. It's amazing, isn't it

They get what they want, then invent scenarios to portray it as something they don't want. Incredible.

[Enrique]

12. no, its another pony

another thing that sounds fantastic, but when it doesnt pan out then we were foolish and naive for ever expecting.

[ProSense]

15. What's with the "pony" obsession?

Maybe Obama will be a one-termer and Republicans will control both the Senate and the House and you will not have to be "foolish and naive for ever expecting" this "thing that sounds fantastic" not pan out.

[BlueIdaho]

19. Or maybe Demcrats will vote to extend the Bush tax cuts

Oh wait, they have already done already that haven't they?

[ProSense]

20. Or maybe

it's not December 2010 still and Groundhog Day is not a constant.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

30. Is that

what "logic" is being referred to as these days: "unicorn"?

[BlueIdaho]

32. This President is a terrible negotiator.

Time and time again we have seen him fail at negotiations with republicans. Instead of health care reform, we get health insurance reform with mandates that will make insurance companies even richer and more powerful. We get more blood and treasure spilled across the middle east. When the Bush tax cuts were supposed to expire, we get an extension. Now we see it again with the debt ceiling. The President is ready willing and able to negotiate a deal that gives republicans 11/10ths of what they want while turning his back on the poor and middle class. Economists agree the current deal under discussion is guaranteed to send our economy into another nose dive. You can forget about Democratic ideals, this guy is too busy screwing the little guy to notice his base is losing interest. When the Bush tax cuts come up (again) there will be another "crisis" that will force him to capitulate one more time and make the tax cuts permanent. Honest to God, I wish I felt better about the President but from where I stand - yes, past is prologue.

[flamingdem]

17. ssssssshhhh don't let that cat out of the bag just yet nt

[DCBob]

18. Yes, I heard that too. Good news.

[boston bean]

22. yeah, wonderful...

:eyes:

[ProSense]

25. Why is it bad news? n/t

[alcibiades_mystery]

29. Silly ProSense...don't you know that ALL news is BAD news

:rofl:

[Pisces]

34. I'm wondering myself. We need revenues and this would also include the rich???? Where is the bad

news?

[DCBob]

31. you have an eye problem?

[jenmito]

23. Yup. That was always part of the plan-to let them expire for the wealthy. n/t

[Blasphemer]

38. They re not expring because of any deal being made now... they are set to expire in December 2012

Just as the were previously set to expire in December 2010. "Letting" them expire is a colossal joke in terms of these debt negotiations. The Republicans suddenly declared that "letting" them expire was tantamount to a revenue increase so now suddenly "letting" something expire that was already set to expire is some kind of negotiated revenue increase? That's horseshit. And if you (I'm not addressing this to the OP specifically, it is a collective "you") expect me to believe that President Obama, given everything that he has done economically up to this point, would not sign a tax cut bill sent to him by a GOP controlled House and senate, you'd have to be smoking some strong stuff. Nothing that has come out of D.C. since January 2001 tells me that either party is serious about increasing revenue through a fairer tax code. Nothing.

[treestar]

44. You are claiming he would sign a bill that extends them, alone?

If he lets them expire, DU will be here to beat him for the increase it causes in middle class taxes.

[Lasher]

42. You mean the Bush tax cuts will end?

I've heard such a promise before.

[Blue Owl]

45. Whatever.

Given how perfectly clear it is who is in charge here -- that's no fucking goddamned consolation.

[Unvanguard]

46. Nope. The CBO's scoring of the 1.5 trillion deficit reduction will assume they will, though.

A nice bit of Republican cheating that will severely impair any effort to increase the top marginal rate.

[Zenlitened]

47. Ya know that present I gave you for your birthday? Now I'm calling it your Xmas present too. - n/t

[ibegurpard]

48. dream on

[blkmusclmachine]

49. .

:spray: :rofl: