Kevin Drum: Please stop searching for an alternative, compromise-free universe

[BeyondGeography]

Because it needs to be repeated:

From any kind of progressive point of view it's hard to see how you could seriously argue that the current bill is a net harm. Sure, it makes compromises to powerful interests that are hard to swallow. But that's why they're called powerful interests: because they can kill your legislative priorities if you don't assuage them. In return, though, the Senate bill:

-brings down insurance rates,
-expands Medicaid,
-offers the prospect of moderately priced insurance to tens of millions of the uninsured,
-forces insurers to take you on even if you have a chronic pre-existing condition, mandates minimum levels of coverage,
-and takes several small but important steps toward reducing the future growth of healthcare costs. That's an enormous advance for the progressive agenda.

There's an alternate universe out there in which you could get all this stuff without compromise based on the sheer force of progressive arguments. Sadly, it's not this universe. I sure hope we don't have to learn this the hard way yet again.

http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2009/12/sleazy-sewers-and-healthcare-reform

[Clio the Leo]

1. But ..... but ...... but........... yeah. NT

[tandot]

2. K & R

[babylonsister]

3. Rec'd. It's worth passing this for those of us with pre-existing

conditions. That's huge.

[BeyondGeography]

Which goes into effect immediately n/t

[ClarkUSA]

19. Exactly as Bernie Sanders said yesterday.

:thumbsup:

[closeupready]

4. I have to agree.

n/t

[ShortnFiery]

5. Why is it that even Citi-Bank is not required to COMPROMISE? If you're a big Corporation, you don't

have to compromise. However, if you're a middle-class tax paying American ... ALL YOU EVER ARE ASKED TO DO IS GIVE?!?

The LIBERAL BASE of this party has been compromised to death.

I'm not COMPROMISING my any more ... not for LIES and Corporate Shills masquerading as Political Leaders. :thumbsdown:

[BlueIdaho]

6. I'm sorry could you help me please.

Could you please give me a reference to the specific components of the current legislation the (a) bring down insurance rates and (b) takes steps toward reducing future growth of health care costs?

Thanks

[jgraz]

8. Hey, c'mon. We have to *compromise*

I know we all want Single Payer for All, but we've decided to compromise on a big wet kiss for the insurance lobby that will guarantee more of our citizens death and destitution at the hands of a predatory, criminal industry.

Don't you see how inflexible you're being? :shrug:

[paulk]

31. that would be my question, too

I'm just not buying this -

[vi5]

7. But what of all the loopholes and work arounds?

I see all these same things pointed to as the "good" of the bill. And if I heard even a little bit about how and who will be enforcing this stuff and what recourse we'll have or how all of these loopholes and ways around will be closed or what will prevent the insurance companies from doing all the things that others have laid out (ie. not covering cancer by just not having oncologists in network, etc.) then maybe I'd feel better. But all of these things people are pointing to as goods, without emphasis on the enforcement and recourse amount to nothing more than "trust the industry".

If someone can point me to some good links explaining and laying out how it's not true I'd like to see them because I really want to be more optimistic than I am now.

[GOTV]

9. So, you're saying PROGRESSIVES need to learn to compromise? Did you just land on this planet?

Which version of the Senate bill did not come with a stinking boot full of compromise for progressives?

[Jersey Devil]

12. Let's rephrase your question another way

Whatever made you think that progressives were in such a position of strength and power in Congress that they could get most of what they wanted?

For most of my lifetime progressives were lucky if Congress even threw them a crumb once in a while and now you and many others are acting as though there are only a few obstructionists in Congress to a progressive majority.

Bernie Sanders' single payer amendment wasn't even voted on but I wish it was because then you'd see just how unrealistic the progressive vision of how much power they hold in Congress really is. If voted upon it would be my bet that Sanders' amendment would be lucky to get 30 votes.

[Moochy]

15. Yeah damned progressives they just deluded themselves

us moderates knew they were deluding themselves, but it served our interests. It sure is nice in smug "reality" land, I gotta say.

[Jersey Devil]

25. No amount of snark can change the facts

You only "compromise" if you are in a position of strength and progressives in Congress simply are not. There is nothing "smug" about that statement of fact.

Progressives (and I include myself as one) are doing quite well in my opinion forcing things into the bill (and many other bills) through hard work and sometimes unrelenting pressure on the majority, but they are not the majority.

So I don't think you can call it "compromise", which is defined (by me) as giving up something you already had in hand, when nothing, not a single damned provision in the HCR bill, was ever in hand for progressives.

[GOTV]

17. Progressives started compromising BEFORE day one ...

... they continued to stay engaged after being told single payer would not even be discussed.

As you say, they've never had power and never expected to be able to dictate any terms. They've given up one priority after another to get this done and yet somehow the OP has come to the conclusion that it's the progressives that cannot compromise.

[DrToast]

10. So a legal requirement to purchase insurance isn't a compromise?

Not getting medicare for all isn't a compromise?

I think there's been plenty of compromising going on.

[unblock]

11. we're looking for a CAPITULATION-free universe

what we're getting at this point is a sop to the left. the right is winning big time. ginormous subsidies. what other industry gets customers delivered to their door through government coersion?

they are selling us WAY too short. we had momentum, we had anger, we had 8 years of being frozen out, and we had a health care as a campaign centerpiece and we won and it wasn't even close.

and this is all we get?

this is not compromise. this is the right-wing winning and throwing us just enough of a bone so they can pretend it's not an outright victory for them.

yes, something may be better than nothing, but it's not a "compromise" if they get the loaf and we get the crumbs.

[Blue_Tires]

26. +1

i get pissed off that the other side NEVER seems to have to compromise on anything...it's always the dems expected to cede ground for the good of bipartisanship...

[unblock]

28. yeah, 8 years of them having razor-thin majorities and essentially tied presidential elections

and they ruled as if democrats didn't exist.


we nominally have a "filibuster-proof" 60 votes and yet we, too, rule as if democrats didn't exist.

all we get is higher quality lip service.

[treestar]

30. Capitulation requires one to be in the dominant position

You can't capitulate without that.

In the position of wanting something done, the left is at a disadvantage. The right wants nothing done. There is nothing for them to give in, or nothing that can be given them.

It's about making a deal. It's hard to deal with those who want nothing done. That leaves the Democrats, who cover a larger political spectrum, at a disadvantage. The only ones to make a deal with are those Democrats willing to allow something to be done.

[DrToast]

13. I love how the author puts the insurance industry on equal footing as the American people

The public option is fiscally responsible and will improve care. There is no legitimate reason to exclude it.

The only reason it's being excluded is because it will harm the profits of the insurance companies. This industry that has failed us is now somehow entitled to a mandated monopoly.

WTF?

[Blasphemer]

16. I want to say that this is Bizarro-World but unfortunately, it's reality. nt

[WeDidIt]

14. This bill does NOTHING to bring down insurance rates

Insurance rates will only go up.

[Armstead]

18. Because it needs to be repeated -- WE STARTED FROM A ;POSITION OF GIANT COMPROMISE

STOP BLAMING THE WRONG SIDE FOR NOT BEING WILLING TO COMPROMISE.

Proponents of major reform gave up a lot from the beginning. And still it keeps getting worse, and ever farther away fvrom what advocates of actual reform have wanted.

Reform advocates have been the only ones giving things up, while protectors of the status quo insurance industry have been getting everything.

It takes two to tango.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

23. You're right, it does take two to tango.

And only one side (ours) wants to dance at all. That isn't exactly negotiating from a place of strength.

[GreenPartyVoter]

24. Amen! Seems to me we have been the ones to do ALL the compromising given

how this bill isn't anything like the single payer universal healthcare so many of us wanted, or even the strong public option we were willing to settle for based on pragmatism.

(Oh noes! Did I just call progressives pragmatists?? But..but..but... that's impossible, isn't it?)

[Tom Rinaldo]

20. And then there is this Universe

In this Universe the squeeky wheel gets the greece.

In this Universe silence is equated with consent.

In this Universe those who refuse to bargain in good faith are appeased because appeasement is their non negotiatable condition for cooperation.

In this Universe the pragmatic thing to do is accept that which should be unacceptable, because the current foundations of power in this universe demand it, and it is unreasonable to expect that to change. Even when the people are behind us.

[madmom]

21. There was compromise .. single payer to public option to weak public option to

no public option to getting screwed and liking it!

[Enrique]

22. he's telling that to people who have already compromised extensively

he's going to piss a lot of people off.

[Romulox]

27. Translation: this isn't REALLY a democracy--do what the money men say! nt

[ClarkUSA]

29. Correction: This is a democracy, where legislation requires more than whining and grandstanding.

Just ask Bernie Sanders.

Bernie Sanders on Dean: "I have to deal with the reality, being a Congress member...":
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=69439&mesg_id=69439

Bernie on Countdown, "We are working with the WH to make this bill better...":
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=69408&mesg_id=69408

Ask Andy Stern, too:

"SEIU's Andy Stern: Don't Kill the Bill. Fix It."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x71483

[TomCADem]

32. K & R!

[JVS]

33. We've compromised more that enough. If these interests are so powerful they should be broken up

[Politicub]

34. This bears repeating - we will never get perfection

And if that is out standard, people that could be helped will continue to suffer at the expense of the perfect. There will never, ever be a perfect bill -- any bill.

And this imperfect bill that is a product of our imperfect system does the following:

-brings down insurance rates,
-expands Medicaid,
-offers the prospect of moderately priced insurance to tens of millions of the uninsured,
-forces insurers to take you on even if you have a chronic pre-existing condition, mandates minimum levels of coverage,
-and takes several small but important steps toward reducing the future growth of healthcare costs. That's an enormous advance for the progressive agenda.

But so many people on DU don't give a fuck about the good it does, and realize it's a work in progress once it gets passed. We can do something good, and so many want to see the bill go down in flames.