Does Obama deserve our support?

[Vattel]

If he is really negotiating in good faith and is willing to cut medicare benefits, etc., then he does not deserve our support. If O'Donnell is correct and Obama is cleverly bluffing so that the Republicans are forced politically to offer a bill that raises the debt-ceiling with no cuts attached, then his aims deserve our support (although it may be a bad idea to publicly support right-wing economic ideas as part of a bluff). I don't know what Obama is up to; so I will reserve judgment.

[Enrique]

1. i think he's acting rationally in his political self-interest

it's no mystery how this could help him politically.

[Vattel]

5. I see your point.

Maybe "idiot" is the wrong choice of words. Perhaps "willing to sacrifice the vulnerable for political gain" would be more accurate.

[Pholus]

11. He's trying in a hard situation and if he gets something in return it's probably good.

Sadly the pessimist in me sees us giving away the safety net and then declaring victory due to some token concession that gets made.

Negotiating with bullies is tough when punching them in the nose is "off the table."

[MNBrewer]

19. That kinda makes him an Ayn Rand Objectivist, politically, doesn't it?

[lunatica]

2. unrec'd for either/or idiocy

[no_hypocrisy]

3. We'll know down the road. At the time of the Cuban Missile Crisis,

nobody was sure whether JFK was bluffing or deadly serious when negotiating with Russia to remove its missiles. People were hysterical, started sleeping in their backyard bomb shelters, my kindergarten class had to move against the stone walls of the basement of our school in bomb drills, etc.

When time passes, the story behind the scenes comes out in dribs and drabs.

[Azathoth]

4. Your post is too indecisive...you have to firmly bash Obama to get the recs n/t

[Bobbie Jo]

13. Sad but true. + 1

[CBGLuthier]

6. No.

With all my issues with his actions and all that is going on in the world I never even slightly suspected that.

Now personally, if I were to be "reserving judgement" I would not do it by asking if he is an idiot but hey different strokes and all.

[Vattel]

7. You are right. I have edited it.

[creeksneakers2]

8. We have to do something about the debt / deficit

If interest rates go up our payments will be a trillion a year. Democrats have been saying that if Medicare costs increase as expected the program will be unsustainable. Obama may wish for better options but he has to find something that will pass Congress.

Obama isn't an idiot. He's doing what he has to do to protect the country.

[Vattel]

10. I agree that the costs of medicare needs to be addressed.

Cutting benefits is not the answer.

[bornskeptic]

22. There's no reason to believe that President Obama proposed any cut in Medicare benefits.

It's likely that he proposed reducing escessive payments to nursing homes, making the Medicaid Prescription Drug discount available to Medicare/Medicaid dual eligible persons, or possibly allowing Medicare to negotiate prescription drug prices. His signature achievement, the Affordable Care Act, includes major increases in Medicare benefits.
He's not about to let any of that be canceled out.

[Vattel]

36. There is some reason to believe that he wants to reduce

the retirement age from 67 to 65 (assuming he's negotiating in good faith and not bluffing).

[Tippy]

12. K&R....Reality does exist here on DU

[Tippy]

9. K&R

[BlueMTexpat]

14. Who is this "our" in "our support?"

If you are a Democrat, you should be supporting Obama. Period. Right now, he's the best we've got and the only realistic alternative to much, much worse. Asking this question over and over again on DU is pretty tedious - and, IMO, stupid, short-sighted and indicative of someone who has no concept of what is at stake.

What "we" should be doing is working hard to build or strengthen our grassroots networks with progressive candidates for the long term rather than threatening to withhold support from someone who is attempting the nearly impossible right now - getting this country back on the right track after 30+ years of Republican and centrist misgovernance - often outright criminal. He's not going to please everyone - he certainly doesn't please me all the time and I sincerely believe that he needs backbone strengthening shots. But I am a realist who has been around for a long time, a Democrat through fair weather and foul. Apart from the Bush II era when several Dems were complicit with Bush II policies, this is certainly the foulest political weather that I have ever experienced. Without Obama, unhappy as I am with his attempts to treat today's Republican Party representatives as thinking people who actually have the good of the country at heart (as if!), I can assure you with certainty that everything would have been much worse than it is now.

Modern American political memory appears to be every bit as short as its cultural memory. Either that or several DU posters either have only recently seen "Democratic" light - or perhaps even have anti-Democratic Party agendas.

[Vattel]

16. I don't support Obama when I think he's wrong.

I support him when I think he's doing the wrong thing. I can see that the way I framed the question suggested that I was talking about whether he deserves support generally. Please excuse my lack of clarity. What I meant was whether his current efforts on the debt-ceiling issue deserve our support.

[polmaven]

17. I think there is a difference

between supporting or not supporting Obama, and supporting or not supporting certain of his polices or proposals.

[Vattel]

18. I agree with you. I was referring to the latter.

[BlueMTexpat]

20. Thanks for your explanation!

I am certain that none of us knows the whole story of his current efforts on the debt-ceiling issue. As they have been presented to us by the craven creatures in the US MSM and some commentators - even by some whom I generally genuinely admire who seem to be reading more into his statements than he has actually said, I concur that they do not seem impressive. But none of us is present at those negotations and all those who are speaking/leaking - and reporting - have different agendas.

But, apart from making our wishes and desires clearly known to him and our Reps and Sens, whenever and as much and as often as we can, I am not sure what else we can do at this point - apart from actually marching on the Capitol in DC - which I personally would like to see happen - and demanding accountability, including having Executive/Legislative/Judicial branches slash their own salaries and benefits before they continue slashing those of the most vulnerable in our society.

While we do need to keep expressing our wishes, we should also continue to show him our support now, IMO. If he really does betray us on the economic front - and remember that at least some earlier "betrayals" were not quite as they have been depicted generally, especially by the lamestream MSM - by allowing SS and Medicare benefits to be traded away/raided/slashed/privatized (some reform is actually justifiable, such as raising the income cap, etc.), THEN is the time seriously to question our support for his efforts.

In fact, I would go further and say that it is time for us all to revolt - literally - against the totally dysfunctional political system that we have allowed to be foisted upon us, not simply against individual personalities.

[Vattel]

21. I think I agree with everything you are said.

I too think medicare needs reform. What I oppose is serious cuts in benefits. I am certainly against raising the retirement age from 65-67, and based on the White House's own statements, I do suspect that Obama is willing to do that. I hope I am wrong (as I have been many times in the past).

[BlueMTexpat]

37. I'm with you on cuts in benefits generally.

But raising the SS retirement age actually happened some time ago and is still gradually being phased in. Check it out. I, for example, had to wait until my 66th birthday to receive full SS benefits, based on my birth date. Depending on your own, you may already have to wait until age 67 to receive full benefits. People who are making this age-raising claim are doing so irresponsibly, IMO.

One can always apply for SS benefits earlier but then one will always receive a lesser amount. Some deliberately make the choice to begin receiving benefits earlier with the idea that a "bird in the hand" now is better than one in the future and sometimes that calculation works to their benefit. I was among those able to wait to receive the full amount, which is right now being reduced by almost 20% per month because the USD has plunged to unprecedented lows and I reside abroad. Thanks again to W & Co for their rotten and criminal wars, fiscal and tax policies!

The "raising the retirement age" argument only works against those who are not informed about what is actually happening right now.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

23. Excellent post!

:thumbsup:

People IMHO need to have a healthier view of our *relationship* politicians and recognize that politicians are people too and that they have the same mix of good points, bad points, strengths, weaknesses, flaws, foibles, quirks, etc. We ought to be able IMHO to be able to support somebody generally without necessarily having to like/approve/accept everything they do. The only major question we have to ask in the voting booth is whether or not the people we are electing are essentially "on our side" when it comes to helping advance and secure the prosperity and well being of 99% of the people in this country or if they are mostly concerned about the top 1%.

[Yon_Yonson]

15. Support or not

Obama will do what his corporate paymasters tell him and what is politically correct for him regardless of whether or not he has my support. When 2012 rolls around I shall vote as I always do and I am not happy with him at this point!

[AtomicKitten]

24. "Our" support? You tapped out a long time ago (if you were ever in).

[CakeGrrl]

26. +1000

At this point, those who have made their feelings clear are only looking for more comments to support their prevailing attitude, IMO.

[Vattel]

30. Whatever.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Divine Discontent]

25. the office deserves respect, but he needs questioned harshly if he makes anti-progressive moves, and

frankly, I don't care what non-progressives think. The liberals have to keep the pressure on him. Of course, his challenger is going to matter. If Romney is their candidate, that's good for progressive goals, if it's right-winger Perry I think it pulls politics to the right a little.

As always, I support the Democrat over a Republican in a two-person race for president - that's not hard, but one thing I won't do is... well, see my tag line below.

[Bluenorthwest]

27. Policy deserves our support or lack of support

The only way to be true is to be true to your principles. I say that if he cuts, we should not support that, if he is bluffing, we still need to be heard saying that we will not support cuts. Advocate the principle. Obama will fend for himself. If he's bluffing for the best, then anyone not helping him sell that bluff is a fool. If he is actually wanting to cut, then anyone who is not criticizing that is a fool. So stand against cuts and leave the personality crap to the playgroups and reality shows.

[Vattel]

28. I think you nailed it.

[JoePhilly]

29. If he supports 2 things you like, and 1 you don't, then what?

Or he only goes part way on one?

Then what?

What if, he doesn't cut something you like, but says he's willing to discuss that possibility along with other policies that you do agree with?

Or, as the OP suggests, is it all black and white ... ??

[Vattel]

31. see post 16.

[gateley]

33. Yes - and let him know you support him when he DOES something

you like, for example telling Cantor to STFU. :7

We need to make it clear we WILL support him if he stands tough and pushes for more. In all fairness, he's young, he's a relative newbie in politics, and I've always felt he's trying to do the best he can. Give him some oooomph. A pat on the shoulder. And, of course, let him know when you feel he fucked up. But not ONLY then. He's who we have and we can help him to become better.

[Vattel]

34. well, I doubt he reads DU, or letters to the WH,

but I have complimented him for doing good things (e.g., choosing to get OBL without killing everyone in the house in which he was residing). He has done a lot of good things and a lot of bad things IMHO.

[gateley]

35. I'm thinking the e-mail checkers just tally yeas and nays, so

I always just limit my message to the subject line.

Don't know if I'm right or wrong, but they've got to have some way of gauging public reaction.

I let him the attaboys and the I can't believe you did that!s. No effort on my part and if they ARE checking, figure I got my voice in with the masses. :shrug:

Agree, sometimes I'm very pro-Obama, other times I want to shake him!

[thelordofhell]

38. Yes

Any other no-brainer questions?

[ccharles000]

39. yes

[polichick]

40. I'm not sure he cares about our support.