Robert Reich: Back Toward Double Dip

[ProSense]

Back Toward Double Dip

The May jobs report is a disaster — the weakest reading since September. Non-farm payrolls grew only 54,000 last month, according to the Labor Department’s Bureau of Labor Statistics. Private employment rose only 83,000 — the smallest growth since last June. Government payrolls dropped 29,000.

The overall jobless rate rose to 9.1 percent.

Together with plummeting housing prices, falling wages for non-supervisory workers, a paltry 1.8 percent growth in the first quarter, and a precipitous drop in consumer confidence, the picture should be clear to anyone able to see clearly.

The recovery has stalled.

We’re not in a double dip yet, but the odds are increasing.

The question is whether all this will wake up Washington, and stop the monumental distraction of the games being played over the debt ceiling and long-term budget deficit. The Republican lie that the nation’s long-term budget deficit is responsible for high unemployment would be laughable if it weren’t so tragically irrelevant to the current situation.

more

Doubt it. Daily Kos: Boehner angry that Obama hasn't agreed to GOP's debt ceiling ransom demands

[mother earth]

1. No help in sight for Main Street...

[AndyTiedye]

2. The Republicans Won't Allow Anything to be Done

They want the economy to be in recession. They want millions of people to be out of work.
They believe a recession will help them in the election next year, and they are probably right.

[girl gone mad]

3. So now you agree with Reich that the economy is not improving..

after spending the last two years arguing that the recovery was real and robust?

[ej510]

4. I've been saying this ever since the stimulus package only had about half a trillion dollars in

stimulus. The stimulus package was a bullet hole with a band aid on it when we needed stitches.

[ProSense]

6. So

you agree with Reich that the "recovery" has stalled?

I agree with him that there is a recovery, and that it needs stimulus to keep it going.

[girl gone mad]

15. How will any of Obama's neoliberal policies get us there?

Trillions in unfettered bailouts to the (still insolvent) zombie banks, hundreds of billions gifted to corrupt corporations, further privatization of public realm, more free trade, more deregulation, more power to the Federal Reserve, less transparency in government, more money for the warfare queens, an expansion of the police state, an ignorant push for deficit reduction, an extension of the Bush tax cuts, a drive to "win the future" through wage reduction and union busting, cuts to social programs, support for bond vigilantism, support for austerity, refusal to prosecute TBTF criminals, expansion of the drug war..

What part of this ideology will lead to a healthy middle class recovery?

Neoliberalism is only good for increasing the wealth and power of the oligarchy. The writing has been on the wall since the appointments of Summers, Rubin and Geithner. There will be no more stimulus, and no recovery. Obama had his chance to reign in the financial sector and create jobs here. He refused, instead filling his cabinet with the very engineers of our recent neoclassical catastrophe and transferring their massive private banking Ponzi debts onto the public balance sheet. He had his chance to push for a much larger fiscal stimulus package. He ignored and later ridiculed those voices on the left who were urging such a course of action. Now that there is absolutely no chance of further stimulus, he wants to get away with play acting that he believes in using government spending to support the middle class? After declaring that the government doesn't create jobs and doing as little as politically possible to protect people from being raped, plundered and pillaged by the banks and corporations? Political stagecraft at its worst.

[ProSense]

17. Oooh,

"neoliberal," "trillions in unfettered bailouts," "deregulation," "free trade," "expansion of the police state," "union busting."

Sound's utterly evil, and fairly fact-free!

What does any of that have to do with Reich's proposals? Is it your understanding that Reich opposes free trade?

I mean, how can anyone support this "neoliberal" President's regulatory reform and budget.

<...>

The president, in a $3.7 trillion budget plan released yesterday in Washington, revived dozens of proposals that Congress has rejected, including $129 billion in higher taxes on the overseas profits of U.S. companies. He also proposed changing the tax treatment of oil, gas and coal companies, which would raise about $46 billion.

<...>

The proposal also would bring back pre-2001 tax rates on income and capital gains for individuals earning more than $200,000 annually and married couples making more than $250,000. The estate tax would return to 2009 levels with a $3.5 million per-person exemption and a 45 percent top rate. Under a law Obama signed in December, lower rates expire at the end of 2012.


<...>

The budget plan would limit itemized deductions for top earners to 28 percent, curbing the value of tax breaks for charitable contributions, home mortgage interest and state and local taxes. That proposal has been included in every budget of Obama’s presidency and was rejected as a revenue-raising provision to fund his overhaul of the health system last year.

It also includes a $30 billion tax on the largest financial institutions. The 2011 budget proposed $90 billion.


You: "What part of this ideology will lead to a healthy middle class recovery?

Neoliberalism is only good for increasing the wealth and power of the oligarchy. The writing has been on the wall since the appointments of Summers, Rubin and Geithner. There will be no more stimulus, and no recovery. Obama had his chance to reign in the financial sector and create jobs here. He refused..."


I mean, the President has never, never, never ever, addressed job creation.

President Obama has put policies in place to address hunger and homelessness.

"first major federal antipoverty effort in decades"

Federal Strategic Plan to End Homelessness

HUD MAKES AVAILABLE $61 MILLION TO SIX APPLICANTS TO PROVIDE QUALITY AFFORDABLE HOUSING, REVITALIZE NEIGHBORHOODS

Govt announces plan to reduce health disparities

Fair Sentencing Act

Second Chance Act

I suspect, that "neoliberal" is another way of rejecting everything this President does.

[girl gone mad]

18. Let us know when any of these proposals bring actual, measurable positive results.

When the plans come to fruition, I would welcome a report on tangible results. Links to press releases and examples of political posturing are fundamentally useless.

Regulations failed to stop the crash in 2008 and http://enlightenedeconomics.wordpress.com/2010/12/22/%E2%80%A2-new-bank-regulations-likely-to-fail">will fail again so long as regulatory capture goes unaddressed and Wall Street's http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/21/william-black-warns-that_n_546806.html">fraud goes unprosecuted.

Raising tax rates on corporations and banks is pointless when these institutions can simply use accounting tricks to http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/08/12/us-usa-taxes-corporations-idUSN1249465620080812">avoid paying any taxes at all.

$61 million for gentrification projects? How embarrassingly puny when stacked up against the http://www.theblaze.com/stories/fed-gave-banks-80-billion-in-secret-loans-at-rates-as-low-as-0-01-interest">$80 Billion in secret .01% interest rate loans given to the banks who then turned around and loaned it back to American taxpayers at 3% and 4%. It's obvious what this government's true priorities are.

First major antipoverty effort in decades, huh? http://www.clintonfoundation.org/what-we-do/clinton-economic-opportunity-initiative/what-we-ve-accomplished">Sure.

The financial policies Obama chose to pursue amounted to http://www.wallstreetmainstreet.com/2011/02/dems-obama-broke-pledge-to-force-banks.html">champagne for Wall Street and real pain for Main Street. The outcome of this http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/13/obama-budget-proposal-cut_n_822689.html">ruthless gambit has been http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/06/guest-post-yastrow-%E2%80%9Cwe-are-on-the-verge-of-a-great-great-depression%E2%80%9D.html">grim.

[ProSense]

23. Hmmmm?

"Let us know when any of these proposals bring actual, measurable positive results"


Like this: "Regulations failed to stop the crash in 2008 and will fail again"

Obama's policies caused the crash in 2008? "Will" is a "measurable" result?

"Raising tax rates on corporations and banks is pointless when these institutions can simply use accounting tricks to avoid paying any taxes at all. "

So the President shouldn't raise taxes because it will fail? Is that a "measurable" result?


"First major antipoverty effort in decades, huh? Sure."

You're comparing a domestic policy out of the WH to a Clinton Foundation initiative to help enterpreneurs in NY? Is Clinton a "neoliberal" for NAFTA, repealing Glass-Steagall?

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

29. Hmmmm?

"Obama's policies caused the crash in 2008? "Will" is a "measurable" result?"

The regulations we had in place were insufficient to stop the crash because the regulators were captured by Wall Street. New regulations will also fail, for obvious reasons. I'm sure when it happens you will be in the camp screaming "no one could have possibly seen it coming".

This is about Obama's policies. Equating repealing Glass-Steagall/deregulation to enacting the Volcker Rule and other reforms, and then claiming that they "will also fail, for obvious reasons" is absurd!

"So the President shouldn't raise taxes because it will fail? Is that a "measurable" result?"

The President should focus on actually getting corporations to pay up rather than wasting time tinkering with tax rates, which are clearly irrelevant, since these corporations already know how to fly their private jets right through all of the loopholes. At the very least, this should not be touted as a serious accomplishment.

Some are paying up

"You're comparing a domestic policy out of the WH to a Clinton Foundation initiative to help enterpreneurs in NY? Is Clinton a "neoliberal" for NAFTA, repealing Glass-Steagall?"

Nope. The page clearly mentions the initiatives Clinton took while in office, including a major expansion of the EITC. I would think that someone who is so adamant that fellow forum participants fall in line behind the party would think twice before so blatantly diminishing the poverty fighting efforts of a Democratic President.

The page does not deal with Clinton's WH years. And a Democratic President expanded the EITC and increased Head Start to eight times what it was during the 1990s (nearly triple the Bush years).

What was that about "diminishing the poverty fighting efforts of a Democratic President"?

What was that about "dense"?



Edited for clarity.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

21. What the hell does that have to do with anything? n/t

[Cali_Democrat]

5. QE3?

Bubble Ben claims he won't do it, but I get the feeling he just can't help himself. He needs to inject that high-grade monetary heroin.

[golfguru]

7. Going into Debt is not the path to Prosperity

I will just present actual data below and you
can draw your own conclusions as to which group
we should belong to.

The PIGS countries are in trouble with their economy.
The BRIC countries are doing well with economic growth.

The table below shows External debt owed by countries
as a percentage of their GDP.

PIGS Countries

Portugal 201%
Ireland 1224%
Greece 165%
Spain 157%

United States 100%

BRIC Countries

Brazil 14%
Russia 21%
India 18%
China 7%
Korea, South 25%

[ProSense]

8. Are you saying

that stimulus is not the "path to prosperity"?

What is: the spending cuts that Boehner advocates (the Bush tax cuts)?

What's the "path to prosperity"?

[golfguru]

10. Going into more debt is not the solution, that's for sure

as my data clearly proves. I do not think there is a silver
bullet. Once any one makes the mistake of going in huge debt
the only long term solution perhaps is to tighten belts.

As they say there is no free lunch. If you borrow more than
you can afford, spending more will only get you in more trouble.

A stimulus is great idea when the Treasury is flush with cash
and the economy needs a push.

[ProSense]

12. "I do not think there is a silver bullet.

Once any one makes the mistake of going in huge debt
the only long term solution perhaps is to tighten belts."

Seems your "silver bullet" is to cut spending, just admit it: You agree with Boehner

[golfguru]

13. Nope you are wrong again

I want LARGE Tax INCREASES on the rich and smaller increases
on middle class. That is what I mean by tightening belts.
And all that extra money should go to REDUCE debt.

I am not keeping up with Boehner, but doubt that is what he is for.

[ProSense]

14. Hmmm?

"I want LARGE Tax INCREASES on the rich and smaller increases
on middle class"

What for? To pay down the debt? What's the plan for job creation and prosperty (the individual kind)?

[golfguru]

25. How many times I have to keep saying

that EXCESSIVE DEBT NEVER CREATED PROSPERITY for any one?
And I am talking about long run meaning more than at least a year and more.

So your idea of going in more hock to create prosperity is a total fail.
Just go back and re-read the ACTUAL data for countries with and without excessive debt.
Learn from actual history, not some ivory tower theoretician.

More stimulus at this time is exactly same as a person who is maxed out
on credit cards and gets a new one to charge more stuff. For a short time he looks prosperous again but then he ends up in bankruptcy court and loses all his assets.

[ProSense]

26. How many times

are you going to avoid the questions?

You: "I want LARGE Tax INCREASES on the rich and smaller increases
on middle class"

Questions: What for? To pay down the debt? What's the plan for job creation and prosperty (the individual kind)?

How many times I have to keep saying
that EXCESSIVE DEBT NEVER CREATED PROSPERITY for any one?
And I am talking about long run meaning more than at least a year and more.

So your idea of going in more hock to create prosperity is a total fail.
Just go back and re-read the ACTUAL data for countries with and without excessive debt.
Learn from actual history, not some ivory tower theoretician.

More stimulus at this time is exactly same as a person who is maxed out
on credit cards and gets a new one to charge more stuff. For a short time he looks prosperous again but then he ends up in bankruptcy court and loses all his assets.

Question: What's the plan for job creation and prosperty (the individual kind)?

[brentspeak]

9. Ireland's debt is almost entirely due to the gov't committing itself to bailing out private banks

http://www.usatoday.com/money/world/2011-05-21-ireland-obama_n.htm

Ireland's debt was about 25% of its economy before the housing and credit bust prompted the government to bail out the banks. Now it's 112% and rising.

i.e. Government stimulus spending, therefore, had nothing to do with Ireland's sovereign debt, so comparing the U.S. to Ireland is apples-and-oranges. Portugal, Spain, and Greece also have a large portion of their sovereign debt attributable to bailing out their own private bank sectors.

The BRIC countries are doing well with economic growth.

Russia and India are "prosperous"?

[golfguru]

11. India economy has grown 7-12% range over last decade.

Yes, I call that good growth. DO not forget India started
at a very low level of prosperity, but the change is India
is nothing short of phenomenal over last decade.

[GSLevel9]

16. I smell a steaming pile of FAIL. nt

[DCBob]

19. We are in a very precarious situation now.. major cuts to programs or hitting the debt ceiling..

could easily sends this economy back to where it was 2 years ago... or worse.

[ClarkUSA]

22. But, but, but... DLC DINO Bill Clinton said hitting the debt ceiling "might not be calamitous"!!!

Link to DINO Bill's Republican talking point:
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=bill+clinton+debt+ceiling+calamitous&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

:puke:

[high density]

24. Government cuts 29,000 jobs

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[davidpdx]

27. Obama needs to stick to his guns

The Republican want a double dip, they want people to stay unemployed, powerless and poor. Why? So they can get back in control and give more tax breaks to the rich and cut social programs.