The Dow is dropping like a rock. nt

[onehandle]

[no_hypocrisy]

1. How much now?

[onehandle]

2. -256 in minutes. nt

[abelenkpe]

3. Nikkei dropped over 1000

Everything appears in free fall stocks and commodities.

[OHdem10]

4. They have put in place an instrument to control selling to prevent

a run on Wall ST. Rule 48.

[leveymg]

5. Did anyone just hear a bubble burst? Like a hydrogen bubble burst

inside an overheated reactor building?

This is the end of the nuclear power industry, and a whole lot of companies that were expecting a $30 billion bailout promised by Obama. They'll try to turn this around by arguing that all the U.S. nuke plants need upgrading, but I can't see the American people tolerating government subsidies for this technology anymore.

Civilian nuclear power was always about subsidizing the costs of fuel stocks for nuclear weapons, anyway. Hopefully, the draw down of those arsenals is for real.

Beyond the end of the fission energy sector, I think people have reached the end of their tolerance (and ability to pay) for the Military Industrial Complex and its related Domestic Spying and Homeland Security complexes, which make up like 60% of the federal budget at this point.

The United States needs to go the way of most of Europe, fold up its imperial tents, and become a decent social democracy, like the rest of the civilized world.

[LeftyAndProud60]

7. do you believe in the tooth fairy too? Until it happens here, people wont care. nt

[leveymg]

10. There's a critical mass for these things, and the counters are clicking like crazy.

Here's another frame of reference: the Chinese Emperors called it "Mandate of Heaven". Any Emperor who is unfortunate enough to rule at the time that everything goes wrong will see the end of that dynasty. The US has been in a period of dynastic rule since Reagan-Bush. The end of that era is, I feel, at hand.

During the time of Confucius, the Chinese people conceived of the gods as a vast cosmic bureaucracy with an emperor at its head (the supreme god) and lesser government official gods as well. The mandate of heaven was the celestial "seal of approval" given to the Chinese emperors on earth. If the leader was upright and passed all qualifications, the stellar bureaucracy would cause events to unfold that would bring him to a leadership position.

Similarly, an emperor was said to have "lost" the mandate of heaven when lots of natural disasters, peasant revolts, and the like started to happen. In essence the same cosmic government that lined up events to make him emperor would now be causing events to happen to get the earthly emperor overthrown. By sewing chaos into the world, it would make it very difficult to hold onto the reigns of power.

The Shu Jing (classic history) is the oldest complete work among what are known as the five Confucian classics. The classics were the basic elements of the Confucian educational system during the second century BCE. The Mandate of Heaven was a political-social philosophy that served as the basic Chinese explanation for the success and failure of monarchs and states down to the end of the empire in 1912 BC. Whenever dynasty fell, the reason offered by the
sagas was that it had lost the moral right to rule which is given by heaven alone. Heaven did not mean a personal god but a cosmic all-pervading power. Most historians agree that the theory the Mandate of Heaven was an invention of the Zhou to justify their overthrow of the Shang. The King was the father of his people, and paternal authority was the basis of Chinese society from earliest times. Rebellion against a father needed an extraordinary justification.

The Mandate of Heaven was a theory devised by the Zhou dynasty to justify and legitimize their rule. Government and social order is still, today in America, all about legitimacy. That legitimacy is failing, and people can feel it.

[karynnj]

12. No, you do - how many nuclear plants were approved in the wake of Three Mile Island

From the nuclear industry itself:

"Following a 30-year period in which few new reactors were built, it is expected that 4-6 new units may come on line by 2018, the first of those resulting from 16 licence applications to build 24 new nuclear reactors made since mid-2007. "
http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf41.html

What was at the beginning of that 30 year period? - the 1979 Three Mile Island problem.

[leveymg]

13. None of those approved since 2007 will come on line. Their insurance just went up 400%

We're at the beginning of another 30 year drought.

[karynnj]

18. Exactly -

The latter was my point. (I also agree that you are very likely right on the former. The economics of nuclear power plants was shaky and needed subsidies was before this. They became profitable only if oil costs rose enormously and alternatives did not become widespread and cheaper. It was not - as the industry and the republicans said - that the reason was just regulation. I hope this leads to a massive commitment to solar and wind - both of which have seen breakthroughs in technology. One key thing needed is a smart grid that can more flexibly connect energy producers and users.

The other thing that needs to happen is a REAL effort at conservation - and I think we are moving in that direction.

[dixiegrrrrl]

15. I am trying to figure out how we continued with nuke power AFTER Chernobyl.

First there was 3 Mile Island
then Chernobyl and still the plants continued to be built, under the guise of "it will be better time, trust me".

What needs to be highly publicized is that the builders of the Japan nuke plants-Toshiba- will be building the
planned Texas plants.
Truthout article gives details about Toshiba and another company who are joining up to be major nuclear plant builders, the article is quite chilling,


http://www.truth-out.org/tokyo-electric-build-us-nuclear-plants-the-no-bs-info-japans-disastrous-nuclear-operators68457

[leveymg]

16. That was Russia - there's the presumption of their inferiority. "Can't happen here" mentality.

No such presumption with Japan, that ate our lunch in auto and other high-level manufacturing.

The Japanese Plants are GE1. We have dozens of them, some perched on fault-lines, just waiting for a repeat.

[truth2power]

23. This can't be said too often..."Civilian nuclear power was always about subsidizing the costs

of fuel stocks for nuclear weapons."

[msongs]

6. 300 out of 12000 is NOT dropping like a rock nt

[Swede]

14. A really really light rock?

[ReturnoftheDjedi]

8. It's the End of the World!!!!

[dkf]

9. Seems a little better now.

[GoCubsGo]

11. I suspect it will bounce around all day.

[dkf]

22. More like all week.

Or all month. Volatility is back.

[jenmito]

17. Well, Sunday you started a thread saying you thought the DOW would drop 500-1000 points on

Monday. It only fell 51 points. Let's see how far off you'll be today. Remember your thread Sunday?: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=627872&mesg_id=627872 I guess you can keep hope alive. :eyes:

[onehandle]

19. I also clarified it on the 'PR' factor. The week is early and the market's using artificial brakes.

We'll see if they can successfully keep the damage hidden.

[jenmito]

20. So your mind is made up despite the facts. If the worst-case scenario doesn't happen,

you will attribute it to keeping the "truth" hidden. :eyes:

[jenmito]

21. Your words: "The 'recovery' is over. With one, maybe two meltdowns in Japan...

...and with teabaggers running the House (and arguably, the country), we're done..." So, the recovery is over and we're done. Got it. :eyes:

[JoePhilly]

24. And last summer, when the DOW dropped below 10k, THAT was the end of the recovery.

Except it wasn't.

[adigal]

25. I am welling up with tears

Don't get me wrong, I have a 457 plan, but I am glad to see the rich feeling a tiny pinch, the way we regular folks have been feeling for the past three years.

[mkultra]

26. unrest in the middle east causes market slumps. SUPRISE!

[jenmito]

27. It fell 137.74 points. I guess you're disappointed. n/t