If the high court rules this is protected free speech why isn't collective bargaining free speech

[bigdarryl]

Seems like a big double standard to me.Unions can't get together to talk about bargaining rights but this BULLSHIT is free speech even the so-called liberals on the court ruled in there favor WTF!!! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/02/westboro-baptist-church-w_n_830209.html

[KansDem]

1. That's true...unions are "people" now too!

So if Walker wants to end collective bargaining, isn't he in effect telling a "people" he/she can't talk about salaries and wages?

[bigdarryl]

2. YEP

[boppers]

8. Nothing that Walker proposed prevents speech, though, does it?

People can still talk, no?

They can protest, no?

[KansDem]

9. "Collective bargaining"

In organized labor/industrial relations, collective bargaining involves workers organizing together (usually in unions) to meet, discuss, and negotiate upon the work conditions with their employers. ...

"to meet," "to discuss" -- Will this bill prevent that? If so, then it's limiting "free speech."

And at the end of their "meetings" and "discussions," they arrive at a consensus and present it to their employer for negotiating. Or is it the process of negotiating that's to be outlawed?

[boppers]

10. I think he's going after the negotiating angle.

Specifically, the state being bound to agreements about working conditions, healthcare, pensions, etc.

[AngryAmish]

3. The point of labor law is you can't fire someone for protected concerted activties

1st amendment does not apply to private persons or corporations.

[Tigress DEM]

5. True, but are we beginning to see a broader definition of free speech/right to assemble is needed?

You said: 1st amendment does not apply to private persons or corporations.


As reinforced by the 14th Ammendment under the "due process" clause, maybe we all have the right to "collectively bargain" without even having to be in a union.

So even if they take it away from the unions, we'd still have that right as Americans for redress and appeal. Thom Hartman was talking about this the other day on Air America Radio. If we already have it as citizens, except that it hasn't been opined specifically that way in SCOTUS, it can't be taken away from us just because we're in a union.

Ironically, it wouldn't apply to Private Sector as cleanly as it does to public unions as they are dealing with the government establishing laws against them.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution is part of the Bill of Rights. The amendment prohibits the making of any law "respecting an establishment of religion", impeding the free exercise of religion, infringing on the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances.

Originally, the First Amendment applied only to laws enacted by the Congress. However, starting with Gitlow v. New York, 268 U.S. 652 (1925), the Supreme Court has held that the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment applies the First Amendment to each state, including any local government.

[AngryAmish]

6. Actually there already is protections for protected concerted activity

"Protected concerted activities" is a term of art. It means anytime a group of employees get together and say they are doing ornot doing something they cannot be fired or have reprisals against them.

Example: Three carpenters say they are not going up on a roof, it is not safe in the wind. Boss says get up there or you are fired. Carpenters refuse and get fired. Caprpenters bring case at NLRB and win.

Problem: Remedy is only reinstatement and back pay. WHo pays the lawyers? Who pays the mortgage in the three years it takes to fight the case? And if the carpenters go back to work in the meantime then that money is deducted from the backpay award.

THis does not apply to federal, state and local governments, but they have their own systems.

[bigdarryl]

4. The real question is will anyone on our side going take this to the courts

so far I havn't heard any court challenges on collective bargaining.

[boppers]

7. How is this related to collective bargaining?

Unions can get together and talk about anything that they want, they can go picket anywhere (on public property, within legal limits) they want...

Standing on a street corner with a neon sign that says 'GOD HATES MANAGEMENT' has nothing to do with collective bargaining, as far as I can tell.

Enlighten me?