As we ready to review the New Budget, we "should" keep in mind....

[FrenchieCat]

That if every expenditure line item showing up in the proposed budget
is going to be compared to what was done when the 2009-10 stimulus was included,
without context to the fact that the stimulus wasn't passed to last forever,
and that we have republicans (and a media that aids them) who want to cut everything good
period......and they have a lot of the power to make this so,
Than that would be less than intellectually honest, IMO.

For some who would argue that this is a legitimate way of looking at things,
comparing apples to oranges without context,
then I suggest that if we aren't going to keep a reasonable perspective
when reviewing this budget, that will speak more about a certain unwillingness
to be fair and reasoned as we participate in holding healthy discussions
that include "just" analysis.

If Pres. Obama was the nefarious President that some propose often enough,
then he wouldn't have presented nor urged the congress to pass the 2010 budget that it did
last year....
and so, this is why I believe that it is necessary to incorporate that historical fact,
even as we may be tempted to prescribe a certain nature to his intent this year.

In summary, I do not believe that quoting the last budget that the President signed and comparing it
to his current proposals to be an adequate excuse in expressing discontent. Using such comparisons as a bludgeon without regard to why there may be differences, while only using the fact that there are differences, means that we are operating in a vacuum sealed tight mindset that will not, in a short or long run serve a constructive approach to debate, nor, as before stated, reflect fair minded criticism.

[Hello_Kitty]

1. That should make the poor people losing their heating assistance feel better.

Plus, they'll always have the memories of how warm they were back in 2009.

[FrenchieCat]

4. You are a good example of what I'm talking about.

Please provide the "poor people losing their heating assistance" information.....

Because snark at the expense of poor people, does not an activist make.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[vaberella]

21. Is this confirmed in the new budget or are you getting this from media sites too?! n/t

[Hello_Kitty]

25. I have a feeling media sites would be good enough for you

If they were reporting something positive that Pres. Obama was proposing. Matter of fact, they seem to be just fine to the people telling us that the new budget will close tax loopholes and eliminate oil subsidies. The very same media sites.

[panader0]

2. "fair minded criticism" is almost as hard to find here at DU

As it is in the msm. k&r

[craigmatic]

3. I hope the program for the poor stays as it currently is and they cut the military.

But I guess that's unrealistic.

[FrenchieCat]

6. I think we need to first see the budget,

then we need to analyze it...
and then we need to support what we find that is positive,
and constructively criticize what isn't via actual activist actions.

I believe that we need to aim our ire, if we end up with some,
not simply at the President, but at the Budget committees that
will do as they please unless the people rise up and insist that
they be mindful as to exactly what they are proposing should happen....
as the budget is not solely the work of the President, and neither is
passing it. We have a role to play.....but oftentimes, we rant at the president,
as that is the easiest thing to do, instead of actually working in an effective
manner to make a true policy difference.

[Bluenorthwest]

7. But my religion teaches that the budget is not Sanctified by God

and not worthy of equal consideration. It is a matter of faith, you see.
The President uses that sort of 'logic' when addressing the civil rights of my family. Flippant, dismissive, nonsensical. His surrogates have called us vampires, child killers. And now, after all of that, you have the audacity to speak of sealed mindsets? To ask for fair minds? Well, then, what about the sealed and unfair mindsets of those who oppose equal rights for all, such people as the President who says we are not sanctified, that our relationships lack a spiritual aspect? What could be more sealed tight than a mind that is set against their neighbor's right to live as equal citizens based on belief, not reason superstition, not science?
Pick a standard. A person gets what they give. The love you take is equal to the love you make. Yep. Equal.

[FrenchieCat]

8. I understand that with you and I would guess quite a few others....

until civil rights in this country are given to all as they should be,
that nothing else matters.

I sympathize with you and your view that this President as well as any one connected to him
in anyway, i.e., "surrogates" that you can quote as saying terrible things such as "Vampires, child killers" ultimately means that this President technically is also saying these terrible things, and it is apparent that there is no love lost when it comes to how you feel about this one man, and I'm sure many others.

I understand that it doesn't matter what else the President ever has or will do will ever much
matter to you, because your issue with him is that of civil rights for your family.

As for my audacity of speaking of sealed mindsets, perhaps you can call it that....
if it helps you.

------

“Attitudes evolve, including mine,” he said Wednesday in an interview at the White House with five liberal bloggers. “I think that it is an issue that I wrestle with and think about because I have a whole host of friends who are in gay partnerships. I have staff members who are in committed, monogamous relationships, who are raising children, who are wonderful parents. And I care about them deeply.”

He said he was not prepared to reverse his position at that very moment, but said he thinks a lot about the issue.
...
Richard Socarides, a former Bill Clinton adviser who has been critical of the Obama administration on gay issues, called Mr. Obama’s comments “a big moment.”

“Obama deserves a lot of credit for his willingness to be open and recognize that views evolve,” he said. “He is clearly sending a signal. In the way these things are measured, this is 8.5 on the political Richter scale.”
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2010/10/28/obama-on-gay-marriage-attitudes-evolve-including-mine/

[Curmudgeoness]

9. And I think that, as Democrats, we should be making sure

that the budget is fair to all, not just to the wealthy. The economy for working people has not improved yet, therefore stimulus is still a real necessity.

Let the Repugs slash all the important programs. It is defeatist to submit a budget that already has stripped out every shred of decency our government might have. When you want to negotiate, you propose more than you hope to get, because you know that the other side will do the same thing. You then meet somewhere in the middle if you are able to compromise.

Give the Republicans the rope to hang themselves. Make them be the bad guy.

[Hello_Kitty]

10. Thank you! What is it about basic negotiating that this admin DOES NOT GET?

:shrug:

[Curmudgeoness]

11. We are both baffled. And I am getting fed up with it.

:mad:

[Hello_Kitty]

12. They are either colossally stupid or it's intentional.

Doing what they've always wanted to do and using the GOP as cover.

[Curmudgeoness]

13. These are our countries best and brightest, right?

So that should take colossally stupid off the table.

But I still say let the Repugs do all the dirty work, if they can. Then blame them (even if is is what all of the Dems and Reps wanted to do).

[Exilednight]

14. I fully agree with you, and at some point someone has to stand up to the boogey man that is called

the Republican party. Sadly, I doubt it will be our current president.

Obama is too worried about looking like a man of bipartisanship than looking like a man who has a principle to stand on. It's easier to negotiate and give up key democratic and Democratic principles and call it bipartisanship rather than take a stand and refuse to back down.

This is why Republicans continually win battles, they don't back down. They lose an election and they become more entrenched. They win an election, they push their beliefs against our wills.

We're not even maintaining the status-quo, we drift to the right with a Democrat and office and it's full steam to the right with a Republican in office.

[Hello_Kitty]

16. Republicans never move to the left when they lose. Ever.

You are right about that. They drag the dialog of the country further and further to the right and the Dem establishment goes right along.

[vaberella]

22. We don't know if it isn't already. It's not even released yet, which is the point of the OP. n/t

[Armstead]

29. Nail on head....Thank you

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

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[MasonJar]

17. The cuts in the heating assistance to the poor is so minimal in the

"assistance" to reducing the deficit as to be laughable. (Probably one day in Iraq.) It is, however, life or death to some American citizens. They are the same citizens who no doubt do not give donations to either party. The majority of the rich would not object to going back to their former tax situation. The rich people I know and hear of would gladly give more to help others. They are not going to beg to be taxed at a higher rate, but would accept the situation. It is the big money donors who get heard, not the altruistic normal citizen.

[FrenchieCat]

18. I will wait for the budget,

But thank you for your opinion.

How do you feel about the Social Security Benefit cuts?

[handmade34]

19. thanks for posting this...

it is often almost impossible to see the big picture...

it helps when the facts are available

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

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[tekisui]

24. Oh C'mon! Cuts are cuts. Just as expiration of the bush/obama tax cuts is called and increase.

[phleshdef]

26. We should also keep in mind that Congress is gonna have its way with the budget...

...regardless of whats been proposed here.

[woo me with science]

27. This is his STARTING POINT for negotiations.

That's what's so disturbing.

[superduperfarleft]

28. Yeah, hopefully Congress will protect poor people from Obama. n/t

[Armstead]

30. More 3D Chess?

(I posted this on another thread, but it seems apt here too)

I think his 3d chess may be aimed more at watering down liberal principles than fighting the policies of the GOP.

He talks a great game and wins over the liberal base. Then, citing "reality" he backtracks about ten steps to the right. But he convinces liberals that he's "got this" and he is really setting up the GOP for a "sting" that will mouse trap the conservatives, and get what we really want, despite current appearances.

Silly us, we actually believe he has something up his sleeve against the GOP.....But, strangely, things always seem to end up as what might be called moderate corporate conservative business as usual.. Despite the happy talk, Big Business and the oligarchs getvwhat they want, basically, and we end up with token crumbs.