Barack Obama believes in civility. He is not prepared to peddle fear, anger and hatred.

[denem]

What you see is what you get. As a long time associate said, 'Barack does not do yelling'. During the primaries he said, that if winning meant he had to 'kneecap' Hillary, he did not want it. I can not remember a time when he condemned 'Republicans', only policies, philosophies and leaders. One third of Americans are straight ticket Republicans and the President is not prepared to demonize them. Barack Obama really believes there are no blue or red states, that we are one people who can be united behind a common purpose.

That is the man elected in 2008. You may question his acumen, but he has been consistent throughout If insanity and fear got people out in the mid-terms, he was not about throw in a dose of sulfuric acid.

Barack Obama is, and has always been, an idealist. Jimmy Carter was regarded as a failed President, but his insights and idealism are recognized and appreciated more so, year by year..

[MannyGoldstein]

1. Neville Chamberlain had the same plan.

"Rational" only works with rational people. Crazy and dangerous people need to be called out for what they are.

[denem]

2. Civility = selling Czechoslovakia into occupation.

I think not. I don't recall the President waving a 'Peace in our Time' bit of paper, but perhaps you can enlighten me.

[MannyGoldstein]

3. Peace with the Republicans in our time

Is fundamentally what Obama's been peddling. He gave them the Sudetenland, now they just grabbed Poland.

[denem]

5. Your mistake is equating Republicanism with Nazism.

The real battle is corporate fascism, buying out both sides of politics and after United Citizens that's were we are at. The President broke protocol at his SOTU address to condemn the Supreme Court. But I suspect that in 2004, when so many were saying, it's the Supreme Court stupid, you were equally critical of John Kerry.

[MannyGoldstein]

10. I'm equating appeasement of crazies to appeasement of crazies

Crazy people can't be negotiated with.

I was critical of John Kerry and I urged people to vote for him.

[denem]

11. Appeasement? The real war as you know is going on beneath the surface.

Talk to me all you like about Wall Street, the 30 year campaign to overturn the New Deal and the Square Deal, the concentration and fusion of wealth and power, but don't pretend party political hijinks are appeasement. If you want read meat, call out on the real war.

[jgraz]

43. Get back to me when he cuts Social Security.

[Doctor_J]

65. How about when he privatises it?

:shrug:

[Fruittree]

4. He does call them out..

He just does it without a lot of bluster and he gets things done. Why else would the republicans be so infuriated? He's quietly beating them and doing it politely. He could spend a lot of time calling out crazies like Palin and Bachman and sometimes I'd like to see him do it but he seems to be letting them self-destruct in their own idiocy.

[Donnachaidh]

21. yeah, that last election sure was *beating them quietly and politely*

:rofl: sheesh!

[Fruittree]

24. At least in my area - the congressman who lost

to a Republican was sad but it was also predictable in that it was in a heavily Republican area that had not gone Democratic for over 40 years. Plus I guess to me it's about doing the right thing and making a difference not about playing politics. (Sheesh too)

[proteus_lives]

58. Godwin home run.

[martymar64]

68. What I learned from Atticus Finch

When a dog is rabid, you have to shoot it.

[Phx_Dem]

71. Then next election, you can vote for Boehner, Jim DeMint or some other

nasty, uncivilized candidate. If that's what you want in your candidate, there's a wide range of wackos from which you can choose. Obama is not one of them.

[CTLawGuy]

6. people seem to forget his first speech

where he said there were no blue or red states, just the United States.

[denem]

8. I never have. Once in a while I replay it on YouTube.

Obama 2004 = Obama 2008 = Obama 2010, although I see more sadness in him today.

[CTLawGuy]

9. the presidency is a hard job

I have no idea why anyone would want it, especially in this poisonous climate.

[GeorgeGist]

67. He was wrong ...

their are 50 states and they are obviously not united..

[Hekate]

7. KnR. Sad that Obama will continue to be enthusiastically vilified here.

I hope the comparison to Jimmy Carter doesn't ever extend to the one-term thing -- but even so, it seems as though it will take years before his guts and accomplishments are recognized. My late father had it right: The world is full of idiots.

Hekate

[Exilednight]

15. Obama is not vilified here, people are just disappointed, and rightly so. n/t

[dionysus]

28. "Obama is not vilified here"

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[CakeGrrl]

60. Oh, bullshit

I'd love to challenge any of the "disappointed" shit-flingers to read the same stuff written about THEM and see if they wouldn't call it vilification.

So very easy to insult from the comfort of one's anonymous keyboard and chair.

"He's WEAK!"

"He bends over and takes it from the Republicans!"

"He's a milquetoast!"

"We want a real leader!"

"He's done!"

"Hillary supporters, I'm sowwwy!"

:puke:

[Exilednight]

63. Well ..........

first off I will say that I would never support Hillary, she ran to the right of Obama.

Second, he does bend over and take it from the Republicans. HCR - Bent over. Iraq - Bent over. Tax cuts - He says he's willing to bend over.

Third, I would say that Obama can lead a presidential election campaign, but he's not doing that great of a job of leading his own party.

How is it that Republicans will support their president no matter how much he lies, fucks-ups, and doesn't solve problems?

Answer: No one in the Republican party would dare question their elected leaders because they fail to have a brain, or hold their leaders accountable.

Question: Why does Obama get taken to task by members of his own party?

Answer: We have a brain and hold our leaders accountable.

The truth sometimes hurts, but it's the only way we move forward as a party and a nation.

[Phx_Dem]

73. Righto. I guess that's what they call constructive criticism.

But's it's constructive if you're a hater and a whiner.

[Phx_Dem]

72. Bullshit on both counts.

No one can say with a straight face that he hasn't done more for the Democratic agenda than any other president since Roosevelt.

[Exilednight]

79. Define the Democratic agenda, My agenda is probably .........

not the same as yours.

Ending Iraq and Afghanistan? Still not done.

Low cost, high quality health-care? Still not done.

Equal rights for all, including the LGBT community? Still not done.

Restoration of personal rights (repealing parts of the patriot act, not providing immunity to telecommunication companies)? Still not done.

Meeting with world leaders that are called our enemies without preconditions? Still not done.

Yeah, he's doing a bang-up job on Democratic values.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

80. Hekate, my Dad used to say, "There are more idiots per square foot"

He was a republican...course that was a long time ago when they were pro-business but not over the cliff maniacs like now. And there wasn't the All conservative lies, All the tiime media back then....

I agree, it will be some time before people really recognize greatness. Especially hard to see when we live surrounded by mass popular culture which demands nothing but snarky retorts and a relentless shallowness.

[Warren Stupidity]

12. Please, sir, may I have another?

He just got "shellacked" by a party that has publicly announced that it intends to focus on making him a one term president. Perhaps, with all due 'civility' the president ought to rethink this failed strategy?

[denem]

13. Obama will remain civil. It's who he is.

As he said he made "a bet on the American People".

[Bodhi BloodWave]

14. i'm curious, would you willingly toss aside the way you have been born and raised

if others told you you could 'win' by doing so?

or alternatively, would you toss aside your beliefs and views for the same 'win'?

[Warren Stupidity]

16. First of all the issue is not 'civility' vs 'fear hatred etc.'

The problem I have with this administration's strategy is that they a) give away almost everything before the negotiations start, b) appear to have no 'line in the sand', no core principles that they will not compromise on.

Obama can be very civil while engaging head on with the opposition party. Instead this administration just doesn't appear to want to fight back at all. We've got us a General McClellan when we need a U.S. Grant.

[denem]

19. U.S. Grant, the President who botched Reconstruction?

Who gave almost everything away? Maybe you mean Sherman's tactical assault on Atlanta.

[Warren Stupidity]

29. Uh, no, the general who took on Lee and beat him soundly. nt.

[denem]

31. Gee. I thought they were the same guy.

Lincoln looking like a one term President until Sherman torched Atlanta.

[whathehell]

30. Franklin D. Roosevelt was an American Aristocrat.......Terribly blue-blooded

He nonetheless KICKED ASS in his "gentile" way and got what he WANTED and thought NECESSARY from the Reich Wing.

[denem]

35. FDR "I welcome their hate'

For better or worse, that's not Obama's mind set.

[rug]

17. And Jimmy Carter served one term.

Followed by Reagan.

[denem]

20. And also inherited a recession.

But there's no Reagan who can paper over the fissures in todays GOP. That story arc is drawing to a close.

[pampango]

18. Good point. We may wish he had some of the partisan qualities of Palin, DeMint, or Boehner, but

what you see with Obama is what you get. He could have run in 2008 as a "take no prisoners", "us versus them" kind of candidate but that isn't what he did and doesn't seem to fit his personality.

Many of us may wish that the repub intransigence over the past two years would cause him to change his personality and go "Palin" on the repubs but that doesn't look like it is in the cards. Like any one in any job, there are positives about him which one can praise and negatives which one can criticize.

He may pay the price for being who he is in 2012, as Carter did in 1980, which would be bad for all of us. (Another Reagan we certainly don't need.) For some of us who are old enough to remember the presidency of Carter, there is some eerie similarity. Carter was attacked (and eventually primaried) from the left as well as, of course, by repubs and we all know what eventually happened. Let's hope that 2012 is not a repeat of 1980.

Tea partiers (before they had a name for themselves) and other repubs stuck with Bush in 2004 even though they now seem to want to forget that he ever existed. If they hadn't stuck with him, he would never have "won" a narrow election that year. Repubs do seem to be better at sticking with their "guy" than we are, perhaps because they put less importance on policy and more on achieving and retaining power.

Maybe Obama will be appreciated more after 2016 (hopefully) than he is now. He will probably be as active as Carter after his two terms (:)) and valued for what he brought to the presidency. His intelligence and vision (and, ironically, his lack of partisanship - particularly the Bush/Cheney fear-based kind of partisanship) are things that have been missing from the presidency for a long time.

[NC_Nurse]

22. Does he still believe in Santa Claus too? That's about as realistic.

[Bluenorthwest]

23. How is it 'civil' to announce that you feel your sort of person is

'sanctified by God' and that other sorts are not, and thus should not have equal rights under the law? During his Primary bid, he employed as surrogate one of the most invective breathing slander machines the right wing church has to offer up, a man who calls gay people vampires, and you say that is not peddling fear or hatred? A preacher who says gay people are 'trying to kill our children' is an example of civility?
How about the Gibbs remarks, Emmanuel, how about during the Primary, his folks called Hillary a monster, vermin, warmonger. Gay people were called child killers.
If that is what you call 'civil' I think we speak different languages. To me, he is crude, rude, and willing to push his dogma at others, force it on us, dogma that he and his family do not bother to follow at all. Do you think that 'civil means 'hypocrite'?

[whathehell]

25. Then he should have joined the diplomatic corps...

He's not prepared to be a democratic president in these times. Period.

[denem]

34. So all those times you never heard him say

'We can disagree without being disagreeable', and did not take him seriously?

[whathehell]

44. And all those times he heard DeMint and McConnell say their goal was to destroy him

and then backed it up with total obstruction?..He didn't take THEM seriously?

That phrase is uttered all the time. I don't think anyone could guess it would be his first priority.

Anyone who's been paying attention (or actually had strong democratic principles) would know that you have to be a FIGHTER to be a democratic president now days.

I sometimes wonder why he wanted the job, what his true political principles are, and why he seems to have believed he could win without "taking the gloves off".

I mean, hell...People on the sidelines could see it in recent history: The way the GOP acted during the Clinton Presidency and the John Kerry Campaign.

I honestly wonder if he was paying attention.:shrug:

[denem]

47. HRC cast herself as the FIGHTER.

It didn't sell.

[whathehell]

50. I doubt that that is why she lost.....America loves fighters.

There were other issues involved: "Clinton fatigue"...Sexism...The "new" eloquent Barack Obama, etc.

[BootinUp]

51. correct. I was just saying that in a different way nt

[Autumn]

55. We need someone to fight the republicans,

not give in.

[treestar]

61. So give us an example where any other Democratic President was

uncivil or ranted angrily and succeeded at something as a result.

[countrydad58]

69. Exactly!

[young but wise]

26. Exactly. This is who he is.

[whathehell]

27. Interesting...My understanding of FDR was that he was

not "prepared for yelling" either...Nonetheless, he was a TOUGH mofo who could deal with the "economic royalists" and GET THINGS DONE.

[denem]

33. FDR 'Welcomed their hate'

That is not Obama's mindset.

[whathehell]

42. I know...Damn.....We absolutely need a "new" New Deal and someone

with FDR's vision and determination to see it made into reality.

[Mass]

32. It is not the civility that bothers me. It is compromising when you know the other camp will not.

Result: you end up looking as if you did not believe in anything.

[denem]

36. Yes I noticed. Obama said he would rather get 2/3 with a 90% vote

than 90% with 51% vote, or something like that..

[Mass]

38. And he ends up getting 2/3 with a 51 % vote because the GOP will not compromise.

[denem]

40. Yes it's a problem.

[burning rain]

37. He's extraordinarily conflict-averse.

Reflect on his whopping number of "Present" votes in the Illinois state senate and his not having written any notable articles as head of the Harvard Law Review. I must say I wasn't impressed by his much-praised 2004 DNC speech, either, which seemed to me a load of hippie kumbaya stuff. Oh, we're all the same and we all love each other. Balls. The US is a country on bitterly divided on ideological, regional, and other lines. He needs to stop trying to conciliate the irreconcilable, set himself the task of assembling a sturdy majority against them, and ram through the progressive changes that that majority desires.

[COLGATE4]

39. Well, that's admirable, and I'm sure that 15-20 years from now

Political Scientists will be authoring books lauding the (failed) idealism of Barak Obama's single-term presidency. However, as regards the here and now, we're fucked!!!

[BootinUp]

41. And this is why the Democrats picked him

because even in some of the worst times we could imagine, the majority of us lean towards using reason and civility, there are plenty of independents that lean the same way.

As far as 2012, Obama has the ability to inspire still and he will do alright. And there is no way the repugs are going to have a message to run on like Reagan did. Their ideas are used up.

[jgraz]

45. The Democrats picked him because he wasn't Hillary

Given a choice between a known corporatist and a relatively unknown quantity, most of us bet on the unknown quantity. It's a bet we lost, but it was still a sensible move given the choices at the time.

[BootinUp]

48. That might be why you and some others favored him

She has always been more progressive than her husbands administration was btw. I think a significant number of Democrats were worried she would be too confrontational. I voted for her in the primary.

[denem]

52. Hillary is a Hawk. Hawks didn't sell well in 2008.

and if Woodward is to be believed (a big IF) Hillary's strong support for a surge in Afghanistan tipped the balance in the policy debate where State is usually reluctant to escalate a military conflict.

[BootinUp]

53. Well

I think both Hillary and Obama overcompensate on foreign policy for political reasons. Obama had plenty of hawkish positions/statements, hard to tell them apart on foreign policy from where I sat.

[whathehell]

56. Her hawkishness could be a factor, nonetheless, one need not be a "hawk" to be a fighter

for things you believe in -- Howard Dean kicks ass and he's no hawk.

[countrydad58]

70. reason?

Like changing his mind on off shore drilling, then in just a few weeks after the biggest enviromental catastrophe of all time. Some good reason & judgement there!

[BootinUp]

75. My read of your thinking

You have a simplistic way of looking at government. It basically comes down to you have to pick someone to blame. So you refuse to consider things like years and years of failures on the part of regulators, on the part of Americans to support common sense regulation, instead of decades of de-regulation. The information that Obama used to make his decision didn't include all the stuff that would be needed to understand the threat that existed. Simple as that.

Now go play with the other ideologues.

[countrydad58]

81. No

But I expected a Democratic president to act like one! I also blame Rahm for the recruitment of the cancer known as Blue Dogs! Also the timidity of Harry Reid.

[jgraz]

46. Which will survive longer -- Carter's reputation or the damage done by the guy who beat him?

I don't care if people admire Obama 30 years from now. I care that he show some spine and prevent us from having another Repuke president who nominates the replacements for Ginsburg, Scalia, Kennedy and Breyer.

[denem]

49. He said "I made a bet on the American People"

Yes, if unemployment is 10% in 2012 he will lose it.

[Clio the Leo]

54. An idealist but not an ideologue....

.... a subtle difference that a lot of us dont seem to get.

[polichick]

57. He wasn't elected to be a diplomat, but to LEAD - that requires...

...setting the course we will take and drawing lines in the sand - in no uncertain terms. Nobody is asking him to scream and yell.

[DemocraticPilgrim]

59. Totally agree,he gave the correct response to an election that swung the other way. Any...

other response would of been petulant.  It doesn'tshowweakness to be thebetter man it'strue strength. Every response is not in every  case hostility. Works well for radio hosts for dramatic effect but in the real world it builds a path of resistance. Sure the right are a nightmare we are the contrast or we go on their slippery slope, the time for battle election... election over.  The battle now is only on issues, we haveONE ISSUE "Citizen's United." Let's focus.

[Beetwasher]

62. Look, The Guy Is The First AA Elected President, He's No Political Novice

Does that mean he doesn't make mistakes? Nope, he sure does, he's human. But he's a brilliant politician and knows what he's doing. There's really no argument on that point AFAIC (you can go ahead and argue it, but if you believe he doesn't know what he's doing you're naive, or worse) Politics is no exact science though and sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. Sometimes your bound to lose no matter WHAT you do. Sometimes you are in situation where there is NO WINNING. Period. Sometimes it's just not possible, but you have to play it for positioning and for future returns or to just make the best of it. That's reality. The good guys don't always win and sometimes it's just damn impossible for them to win regardless of what tactics are employed.

Now of course it's real easy for the peanut gallery to sit back and boo at the plays called and think THEY know how THEY could have made it work, but until you're actually in the game and have access to all the inside info and direct contact with all the players, you're really just blowing smoke out of your ass and second guessing.

[Doctor_J]

64. In other words, he is content to enter a gun fight with a knife

and take his chances.

Which are slim and none.

[GeorgeGist]

66. Yes but only a fool would pretend that he can reason with insanity.

[FrenchieCat]

74. And only fools would pretend that politics is nothing but a

all or nothing proposition....and many people criticize this President, because they believe
that....that he should demand all, and act like a 10 year old boy about it.

[polichick]

76. Fighting for sound policies does not equal "peddling fear, anger and hatred"...

It does not require yelling. What it does require is sure bold leadership, drawing lines in the sand, calling out fear and hatred - and despicable policies - in no uncertain terms.

[countrydad58]

77. Civility LOL

Civility to the pukes. To his base not so much! Fucking Retards, etc.

[FrenchieCat]

78. Obama didn't call anyone a retard, and only those who

want to believe the dumbshit would even suggest that this is the case.

You are allowed to hold any opinion no matter how unjustified,
but you ain't allowed to lie just cause. This here DU is not Fox News.

[countrydad58]

82. I dont

watch Fox Lose. I am obviously way to the left of you & your hero who constanly panders to those viewers! His cheif of staff Rahm did say Fucking retards, do you deny that to? Who hired the cheif of staff? Was he reprimanded? I will be waiting for your delusional spin!