"Let's air our dirty laundry all over the world, shall we?"

[babylonsister]

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2009/12/shadow-government-by-digby-lets-air-our.html

Shadow Government

by digby

Let's air our dirty laundry all over the world, shall we?

House Republicans are preparing for a trip to Copenhagen and looking to derail Democratic efforts to negotiate an international climate agreement.

About a half-dozen Republicans will make the trip to Denmark to oppose plans for cap-and-trade legislation, express their discontent with the scientific community that researches climate change and call for the United Nations to halt any negotiations until the academic scandal known as “Climategate” is resolved.

At least Texas Rep. Joe Barton, the ranking Republican on the House Energy and Commerce Committee, along with Republican Reps. Jim Sensenbrenner of Wisconsin, Darrell Issa of California and Marsha Blackburn of Tennessee are making the trip.

House Republican leaders Tuesday laid out their plans for the U.N. climate conference, which will be to essentially buck all Democratic climate-change platforms.

Republicans plan to highlight the leaked e-mails that allegedly show countervailing research was suppressed to undermine the theory of climate change. And they are arguing that Democratic emissions trading “cap and trade” legislation does not have the widespread support of the American people.

“In the worst recession in 26 years, in the midst of an academic scandal and questionable science revealed in ‘Climategate’ and in the absence of a national consensus about policies that would bear upon the category known as climate change, we gather here to say, Mr. President, don’t make promises in Copenhagen that we cant keep,” said House Republican Conference Chairman Mike Pence of Indiana.

President Barack Obama, Pence added, should refrain from negotiating treaties “in the absence of a national consensus.”

The constitution is pretty clear on how this treaty thing works. The president negotiates them. Then the Senate ratifies them. If there's no "consensus" then presumably they won't do that. It's called representative democracy and it's the way we've been doing things for a long time here in the US.

I don't think I've ever heard of a group of political opponents going to a foreign country to confront the president when he's representing the nation. It's kind of startling. I'm not a big fan of the rules that call for royal deference to presidents, but you do have to let the country speak with one voice in certain situations, and the constitution anticipates that when it comes to dealing with foreign governments that voice should be the president's subject to ratification by the people's representatives. To personally go to Copenhagen and publicly argue with the president as he's negotiating a treaty is truly radical.

[FSogol]

1. Poorly educated hillbillies, corrupted by corporate $$$ who'll track mud all over Copenhagen.

They'll end up making Obama look great by comparison.

[EFerrari]

2. Didn't the administration already say they're not signing on?

So what are these losers looking to derail, exactly?

They just need the headlines.

[ipaint]

3. They wouldn't bother if it didn't work.

Compromising constantly from a position of weakness invites this type of behavior.

[babylonsister]

4. You're applauding their international obstruction and criticism?

What a surprise.

I think it's disgraceful myself.

[EFerrari]

5. No, this is a play directly to the right wing owned American media.

My bet is that the international media will not treat them kindly.

[ipaint]

8. No I'm not.

But they are like two year olds with no firm boundaries enforced by the adults in the house so they will continue to push and push.

Constant compromising and bipartisanship after 30 years of moving to the right is self defeating. That's why they do it.

I never approved of it but there is one way to stop it. Stop with the bipartisan baloney and let them know they are a minority party with a radical right agenda that will not be tolerated because it is not good for the country.

Grayson shut them up with a single sentence because he stood on principle and would not budge.

As long as the majority of democrats act like they have no backbone and no principles that can't be compromised on they will be treated accordingly by the right wing equivalent of school yard bullies.

[Kitsune]

6. Quick, let's change the locks while they're away. *nt*

[EFerrari]

7. I'm pretty handy with a screwdriver.

lol

[AwakeAtLast]

9. Oh, how I love my Representative (Pence)!

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[Thrill]

10. Well he needs to start getting stronger and confronting them

or this kind of disrespect will continue.

[Cha]

21. President Obama is who he is and I"m glad of it.

When joe wilson disrespected the Office of Prez in Congress..Obama looked at him and said "not true"

Congress had a vote about whether to reprimand wilson and it passed even though some dems voted "no".

The republicons are always going to be assholes and always get hoisted on their own petard.

Obama is strong..I think people need to stop trying to make them in the image of themselves.

Look at the upside..the whole world gets to see what the sane part of America has to deal with.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

11. All GOP supporters will be banished to the lowest land when the oceans rise

We Democrats will be safe on top of the mountains

[JimWis]

12. That's all we need. This group of idiots going over there will be

an embarrassment for our country.

[tavalon]

16. Whether here or there, that's what they do. Asshattery is their specialty

[timeforpeace]

13. Senator Jim Webb, a Dem, warned Obama last week about committing the US on his own, so it's bi-

partisan concern about what he might do.

[Thrill]

14. Warned the President? Wow. Obama better get a damn backbone

and tell people in both parties that he is not a Senator anymore and they better start recognizing who the hell he is.

If I have any beef with the President, thats it. He needs to start commanding respect from these pricks.

[Cha]

22. President Obama has a backbone..just because

others are acting like assholes that doesn't mean it reflects on anyone else but themselves.

[babylonsister]

15. What were Webb's concerns about an international climate agreement?

I missed that, though I hardly think Obama is on his own.

[babylonsister]

17. Oh, THIS Jim Webb?

And he should be listened to because???

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2009/12/jim-webb-calls-obama-drop-climate-promise


Jim Webb: Climate Curmudgeon

— By Kate Sheppard


Jim Webb is not at all happy that Barack Obama plans to travel to Copenhagen next week and pledge that the US will act to halt climate change. In a letter to Obama, Webb argues that the president does not have "unilateral power" to promise anything to the rest of the world. Instead, Webb contends, Obama should sit around and wait for the Senate to do something about the problem.

"I would like to express my concern regarding reports that the Administration may believe it has the unilateral power to commit the government of the United States to certain standards that may be agreed upon at the upcoming United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change Conference of Parties 15 in Copenhagen, Denmark," wrote Webb. "The phrase 'politically binding' has been used."

"As you well know from your time in the Senate, only specific legislation agreed upon in the Congress, or a treaty ratified by the Senate, could actually create such a commitment on behalf of our country," Webb continued. "I would very much appreciate having this matter clarified in advance of the Copenhagen meetings."

While Webb is right that the Senate needs to ratify any international treaties, the administration also has the authority to negotiate with other nations in drafting accords.

Webb has never been particularly vocal about environmental issues. A moderate, coal-state Democrat, he's supported energy legislation but balked at capping emissions—I included basically everything he'd ever said on the subject in this short profile in July.

But in recent weeks, Webb has emerged as a major pain in the ass for Democratic leaders on climate issues. He recently announced that he is partnering with Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.) on an alternative climate bill that, instead of curbing emissions, would pour massive sums into nuclear power. Cap-and-trade legislation, he said, is too "enormously complex," and, in its present form, he "would not vote for it."

So, even though he has signaled he has no plans to support a bill to cap emissions any time soon, he wants Obama to wait around for him.

[karynnj]

19. Jim Webb, the Reagan, Secretary of the Navy??

Webb is one of the right most Democrats, but even his point is that the Senate has to confirm anything. He is wrong if he interprets that as the President cannot negotiate anything.

I do agree that this cuts less on partisan lines than most things.

[AllentownJake]

18. It will be a nice expenisve show

and the elites will all go home happy they did something, however when they get back to their perspective capitals, nothing will be done.

I'm tired of trying to do a global approach to this problem.

Regulate our own industries and tax the fuck out of imports in countries that don't meet our standards. Want to show leadership, lead.

[tsuki]

20. Who's paying for this Scandinavian junket? I hope it is C Street. nt

[FrenchieCat]

23. Why isn't the media bearing down on them,

like they would have if it was a bunch of Democrats going off on their own on foreign soil, challenging Bush?

Of course that never happened.

The media is transparent once again,
and the people should't like what they see.